77 replies to this topic

[RedOctober3829]

Ohio State coach Jim Tressel was informed that several Buckeyes players were selling memorabilia more than eight months before the school claims it was made aware of the scheme, a two-month Yahoo! Sports investigation has found.

Tressel received information that players were selling items to Edward Rife – the owner of Fine Line Ink Tattoos in Columbus – as early as April 2010, according to a source. However, neither Ohio State nor the NCAA investigated the transactions or the players’ relationship with Rife until December 2010, when the school claims it was informed of the situation by the local United States Attorney’s office.

According to a source, a concerned party reached out to Tressel last April, alerting the coach that memorabilia transactions had taken place between Rife and a handful of Buckeyes players, including Pryor. The selling of items violates NCAA eligibility rules. The source said Tressel was troubled by the information, and the coach indicated that he would investigate the matter and take appropriate action.

Whether the coach initiated an investigation of the accusation is unclear, but all five players remained on the field in the coming months, playing out the 2010 regular season.

If Tressel failed to inform Smith or the Ohio State compliance department about the players’ dealings with Rife, he could be charged with multiple NCAA violations including unethical conduct, failure to monitor and a failure to promote an atmosphere of compliance. In general, a coach is required to act on, or pass along reasonable information about possible rule violations for further investigation.

Yahoo!

Tremendous bombshell if this is true. How you couldn't inform your AD that this was going on is a fireable offense.

[Tyrone Biggums]

This is about as surprising as Cam Newton knowing absolutely nothing about his dad shopping him around.

[Sea Bass Neely]

Non-story.

They'll comment on it, but it's kind of tough when you are given 30 minutes notice.

[RedOctober3829]

Non-story.

They'll comment on it, but it's kind of tough when you are given 30 minutes notice.

Yahoo people say they told them 3 hours before posting the story.

Edited by RedOctober3829, 07 March 2011 - 09:51 PM.

[Clears Cleaver]

Mr Tressel will be suspended for the first five games of the 2011 season....

[JMDurron]

Yahoo!

Tremendous bombshell if this is true. How you couldn't inform your AD that this was going on is a fireable offense.

"Tremendous bombshell" seems like a bit of an oversell here. Unless there are other violations that Tressel somehow knew about without informing the AD/Compliance department, AND there is sufficient evidence that he knew, then there could be major trouble here, but I have trouble seeing much coming of this if all it consists of is a source saying that Tressel knew about the tattoos before the school started investigating.

[WayBackVazquez]

Non-story.

Um, sorry Obi-Wan, but we're really gonna need to see those droids' papers.

[Zososoxfan]

Mr Tressel will be suspended for the first five games of the 2011 season....

link?

[JMDurron]

link?

I'm pretty sure this was a joking reference to the odd punishment for the 5 players who were selling memorabilia, suspending them for 5 games in 2011 instead of their bowl game, and not punishing the school at all for apparently not informing them of the rules.

I'd be somewhat surprised if Tressel let himself be told anything he didn't want to know about, so unless there is a recorded conversation, I suspect that the source says he told Tressel, and Tressel will say that he doesn't remember any specifics, and the issue will end there. Like any coach at a major NCAA Football school, I suspect Coach Tressel is very good at avoiding knowing things that he doesn't want to know. There's actually some precedent for that for Tressel both at Youngstown State and Ohio State, via this old ESPN.com article.

This won't be a complete non-issue, but unless there's something else significant to this, I don't think there is going to really be any major consequences.

[ethangl]

I have trouble seeing much coming of this

Ok. The NCAA has demonstrated on many occasions that it takes players selling (or trading) memorabilia very, very seriously.

Unless there are other violations that Tressel somehow knew about

You need to get less hung up on what certain people "know" about -- if there is a systemic problem at tOSU, it won't make any difference what Tressel claims to know or not know. The NCAA has a term for not knowing what is going on with your program -- it's called "failure to maintain institution control":

"The control and responsibility for the conduct of intercollegiate athletics shall be exercised by the institution itself and by the conference(s), if any, of which it is a member. Administrative control or faculty control, or a combination of the two, shall constitute institutional control."

Edited by ethangl, 08 March 2011 - 12:47 PM.

[JMDurron]

Ok. The NCAA has demonstrated on many occasions that it takes players selling (or trading) memorabilia very, very seriously.


You need to get less hung up on what certain people "know" about -- if there is a systemic problem at tOSU, it won't make any difference what Tressel claims to know or not know. The NCAA has a term for not knowing what is going on with your program -- it's called "failure to maintain institution control":

"The control and responsibility for the conduct of intercollegiate athletics shall be exercised by the institution itself and by the conference(s), if any, of which it is a member. Administrative control or faculty control, or a combination of the two, shall constitute institutional control."

The NCAA also already punished the players for doing so. As I understand it, this isn't about the players having done more selling for longer periods of time, it's about Tressel having allegedly known about it and not sharing the information. That makes this very specifically about what Tressel did or did not know, and when he knew about it. Unless there's proof that Tressel knew early, and I don't think that a source saying he told him before that will cut it, then I'm still not seeing much coming of this.

[Sea Dog]

Dez Bryant got suspended for an entire season for lying to the NCAA about something he feared was a rules violation, but actually wasn't. So if there's proof that Tressel lied to the NCAA about known rules violations -- and simply not reporting those violations is a violation itself -- then I would hope the hammer drops on Tressel. Suspend him 12 months. No coaching, no recruiting trips, no nothing. It's the only way the NCAA will truly be able to make a point to coaches who don't care about the rules.

[JMDurron]

According to Rivals, Ohio State AD Gene Smith has scheduled a news conference for tonight. The conference is scheduled for 7pm Eastern. Tressel, Smith, and OSU President E. Gordon Gee will be in attendance.

[Clears Cleaver]

Smith: "Jim Tressel told us today that he may have violated some rules. And we will conduct a thourough investigation of this and get back to you when it is completed."

Gee: "Tressel has beaten Michigan like 10 times in a row"

Smith: "we anticipate coming to a conclusion after the 2012 Michigan game."

Delaney: "Don;t forget to follow the rest of this press conference on the Big 10 Network 2 channel (Legends)"

smith: "don't forget, OSU fans, please send in your donations to expand Buckeye Stadium because its now the third lasrgest in the Big 10. Leaders level will be $1,000 or more. Legends level begins at $2,500 and Tressel level at $5,000. All Tressels will receive a free tattoo and test drive of a new Toyota..."

All together: "there will be no questions tonight. Coach Tressel is out recruiting and cannot comment either. Thanks for coming"

[Sea Bass Neely]

Not going to be the best news, but nothing major in my opinion.

I'm kind of furious at the NCAA and Yahoo. But any wrong will be corrected.

EdIt: It's a 2 game suspension and 250k fine. I won't have a chance right now, but I'll post more of the story here later if it isn't covered.

Edited by Sea Bass Neely, 08 March 2011 - 07:01 PM.

[WayBackVazquez]

I don't see any way the NCAA is going to be satisfied with a 2 game suspension (against Akron and Toledo). It would also seem that because of the clear admission of violating 10.1, the NCAA could impose a penalty on a much swifter timeline than usual.

I'm kind of furious at the NCAA and Yahoo. But any wrong will be corrected.

I'm really curious to hear how Yahoo and the NCAA have conspired to persecute poor lil The Ohio State University over this "non-story."

Edited by WayBackVazquez, 08 March 2011 - 08:07 PM.

[EdRalphRomero]

Isn't this just college sports overall though? You win if you ignore the whoring out of whatever academic integrity your institution might have. Your ability to win increases proportionally to your acceptance of such whoring. Colleges long ago should have extricated themselves from the whole shitshow. But money is a hell of a drug.

[Clears Cleaver]

I'm kind of furious at the NCAA and Yahoo. But any wrong will be corrected.

Uh, huh? Yahoo broke the stry on uconn. Calhoun and his staff cheated. Yahoo caught them and they faced the music and tarnished a HOF coaches' career. Tressel cheated and lied. Yahoo caught him. is tOSU and its fanbase trying to become an SEC school without the actual wins to back it up?

[Sea Bass Neely]

Uh, huh? Yahoo broke the stry on uconn. Calhoun and his staff cheated. Yahoo caught them and they faced the music and tarnished a HOF coaches' career. Tressel cheated and lied. Yahoo caught him. is tOSU and its fanbase trying to become an SEC school without the actual wins to back it up?

That's not quite what I was saying. Yahoo didn't catch him. Ohio State caught him and reported it and then it was leaked to yahoo, most likely from the NCAA. It would have come out at the appeal, which is soon, but whatever it had to be rushed out.

I don't necessarily equate it to the same situation as UConn, but they're a target and a rule was broken and penalty will be paid.

But the frustration is that this really isn't a new story and they are sitting on on the third party payment thing which is literally a "steroids in baseball" level story.

[JMDurron]

That's not quite what I was saying. Yahoo didn't catch him. Ohio State caught him and reported it and then it was leaked to yahoo, most likely from the NCAA. It would have come out at the appeal, which is soon, but whatever it had to be rushed out.

I don't necessarily equate it to the same situation as UConn, but they're a target and a rule was broken and penalty will be paid.

But the frustration is that this really isn't a new story and they are sitting on on the third party payment thing which is literally a "steroids in baseball" level story.

Well, I guess that answers the "why would Yahoo run with a single anonymous source?" thing. It hadn't crossed my mind that Ohio State had already reported the matter to the NCAA before Yahoo even got a hold of it.

[Clears Cleaver]

The actual emails from Tressel are posted somewhere (Is aw them and now cannot find them). He comes across as an a-hole "I wish these kids would just grow up.." and someone who clearly didn't give a hoot about it.

whatever. This is probably about the 30th worst thing that ahs happened during his tenure and about the 10000th worst thing that has occured in college football the alst ten years

[Sea Bass Neely]

Emails

[Average Reds]

Whoever took the time to redact those emails didn't do a very thorough job....

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

Conveniently, Tressel's suspension involves the Akron and Toledo home games, but he'll be back for the Miami road trip.

[PaulinMyrBch]

Dez Bryant got suspended for an entire season for lying to the NCAA about something he feared was a rules violation, but actually wasn't. So if there's proof that Tressel lied to the NCAA about known rules violations -- and simply not reporting those violations is a violation itself -- then I would hope the hammer drops on Tressel. Suspend him 12 months. No coaching, no recruiting trips, no nothing. It's the only way the NCAA will truly be able to make a point to coaches who don't care about the rules.

And to take that a step further, Tressel is in a position where knowledge of the rules carries a higher level of responsibility. Curious to see how the NCAA handles this.

[WayBackVazquez]

The actual emails from Tressel are posted somewhere (Is aw them and now cannot find them). He comes across as an a-hole "I wish these kids would just grow up.." and someone who clearly didn't give a hoot about it.

Michigan fan here. I don't think he comes off any different from his public persona, which is a stern, no-nonsense college football coach. Nothing wrong with that. What would you expect his reaction to be? "I am shocked, SHOCKED to learn there is gambling in this establishment!"

The most interesting (but not terribly surprising) things to me about the email are that (1) this guy (I'm guessing lawyer) has the juice to get incredibly detailed info about a pending legal investigation and then have a sit-down with the culprit, and immediately leaks it to his good buddy the college football coach; and (2) that both Deep Throat and Tressel are "unsurprised" about the dubious activities of at least 2 players. I can't wait until the unredacted emails surface. Odds one of them is Pryor?

[WayBackVazquez]

That's not quite what I was saying. Yahoo didn't catch him. Ohio State caught him and reported it and then it was leaked to yahoo, most likely from the NCAA. It would have come out at the appeal, which is soon, but whatever it had to be rushed out.

I don't necessarily equate it to the same situation as UConn, but they're a target and a rule was broken and penalty will be paid.

But the frustration is that this really isn't a new story and they are sitting on on the third party payment thing which is literally a "steroids in baseball" level story.

Oh, but it is a new story. OSU only formally reported it yesterday, after the shit had already hit the fan. Points ii and iii in the letter are especially damning, I think, as they show that Tressel plainly lied in response to direct questions about the matter.

I think the NCAA is going to bend Tressel and OSU over for this.

Edited by WayBackVazquez, 09 March 2011 - 12:16 PM.

[Sea Bass Neely]

Oh, but it is a new story. OSU only formally reported it yesterday, after the shit had already hit the fan. Points ii and iii in the letter are especially damning, I think, as they show that Tressel plainly lied in response to direct questions about the matter.

I think the NCAA is going to bend Tressel and OSU over for this.

That's the formal report. They told the NCAA a month ago and then it leaked and they had to rush that out with errors in it.

As for the NCAA, they are sort of limited. What are they going to do take away wins or scholarships? No. Suspend him a couple more games? Maybe, but my guess is they really don't want that fight

Also that "Not surprised" player isn't a current one.

[WayBackVazquez]

That's the formal report. They told the NCAA a month ago and then it leaked and they had to rush that out with errors in it.

As for the NCAA, they are sort of limited. What are they going to do take away wins or scholarships? No. Suspend him a couple more games? Maybe, but my guess is they really don't want that fight

Also that "Not surprised" player isn't a current one.

Taking away wins or scholarships wouldn't surprise me in the least. You are taking a very Pollyanna view of this. USC got raped based on the actions of some players and an assistant coach. From the NCAA's report on USC: "The assistant football coach provided false and misleading information to the enforcement staff concerning his knowledge of agency partner A's and B's activity and also violated NCAA legislation by signing a document certifying that he had no knowledge of NCAA violations." You realize your school just admitted your Head Coach did the exact same thing, right? And he knowingly played ineligible players. I guess you think the fact that the University self-reported after maneuvering to get the players into the Sugar Bowl is going to be a major mitigating factor. Maybe, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

Edited by WayBackVazquez, 09 March 2011 - 01:09 PM.

[Sea Bass Neely]

Taking away wins or scholarships wouldn't surprise me in the least. You are taking a very Pollyanna view of this. USC got raped based on the actions of some players and an assistant coach. From the NCAA's report on USC: "The assistant football coach provided false and misleading information to the enforcement staff concerning his knowledge of agency partner A's and B's activity and also violated NCAA legislation by signing a document certifying that he had no knowledge of NCAA violations." You realize your school just admitted your Head Coach did the exact same thing, right? I guess you think the fact that the University self-reported after maneuvering to get the players into the Sugar Bowl is going to be a major mitigating factor. Maybe, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

By no means do I think a wrong wasn't committed. A bit too much feigned indignation out there for my part, but he brings some of that on himself with the sanctimonious stuff.

USC got raped because it was a repeat violator and drug their feet. The situations are quite a bit different. This is a different case than the players that isn't a direct eligibility issue.

Now the NCAA could get on their soapbox for this issue, they have an easy target and opportunity to make an example out of the biggest kid on the block. They could use this to rectify the other situations which they have, deservedly so, looked so pitiful. My own opinion and from other people I trust is they want nothing to do with this can of worms. So maybe a couple more games? They haven't done themselves any favors with the precedent in recent months.

My take on the totality of the situation is actually rather boring, but I expect a bad couple of weeks and then back to business as usual.

[Clears Cleaver]

Actually, you could argue that Tressel knowingly played with inelgible players last season. If proven true, that is enough to have him gone for a long time

[WayBackVazquez]

Michigan fan here. I don't think he comes off any different from his public persona, which is a stern, no-nonsense college football coach. Nothing wrong with that. What would you expect his reaction to be? "I am shocked, SHOCKED to learn there is gambling in this establishment!"

The most interesting (but not terribly surprising) things to me about the email are that (1) this guy (I'm guessing lawyer) has the juice to get incredibly detailed info about a pending legal investigation and then have a sit-down with the culprit, and immediately leaks it to his good buddy the college football coach; and (2) that both Deep Throat and Tressel are "unsurprised" about the dubious activities of at least 2 players. I can't wait until the unredacted emails surface. Odds one of them is Pryor?

The lawyer is a former OSU football player who has had his license to practice suspended. Link.

[underhandtofirst]

ESPN

Ohio State officials, in a letter to the NCAA, initially wrote that they considered suspending football coach Jim Tressel from participating in spring practice and summer camps as part of his punishment for breaking NCAA rules, but the school ultimately elected to allow him to participate in his team's offseason programs.

[BigSoxFan]

Well, at least they "considered" it

tOSU is such a trashy school.

[WayBackVazquez]

Tressel voluntarily increases his suspension to 5 games, based on the NCAA's final decision on the players's suspension. I'm sure they didn't have this planned all along.

[Zososoxfan]

Tressel voluntarily increases his suspension to 5 games, based on the NCAA's final decision on the players's suspension. I'm sure they didn't have this planned all along.

I think the NCAA should offer Tressel an 11-game suspension allowing him back for only The Game, or allow the 5-gamer to stand, but with the added caveat that he must never wear the sweater-vest again.

[Sea Bass Neely]

Tressel voluntarily increases his suspension to 5 games, based on the NCAA's final decision on the players's suspension. I'm sure they didn't have this planned all along.

That's pretty much the deal. They were going to wait until the players appeal, see what they got, and announce it then to be buried amidst the first day of the tournament.

Yahoo got a leak and put a foil in that.

[Clears Cleaver]

Tressel is likely done after he got caught lying about information he got about Pryor. Instead of turning it over, he gave it to a business confidant of the QB? WTF. The guy is a joke and the school will moving in that direction if more serious penalties are not handed down. In fact, at most schools he'd be gone tomorrow

[WayBackVazquez]

So the vest didn't tell the administration or the NCAA about the situation because the attorney told him it was confidential. But he told this dude? The NCAA is going to put such the smack down.

Edited by WayBackVazquez, 25 March 2011 - 06:38 PM.

[Infield Infidel]

considering he forwarded "confidential" info and that OSU will likely have to vacate all the wins from last season eventually, Vest is toast.

On the last ESPN College football podcast, Ivan Maisel said Beano thinks Urban Meyer will be coaching OSU in 2012

Edited by Infield Infidel, 26 March 2011 - 12:51 AM.

[DannyHeep]

considering he forwarded "confidential" info and that OSU will likely have to vacate all the wins from last season eventually, Vest is toast.

On the last ESPN College football podcast, Ivan Maisel said Beano thinks Urban Meyer will be coaching OSU in 2012

What is the NCAA waiting for? I mean it doesn't take this long to hand out punishments. All the facts are on the table. What the hell are they waiting for?

[Kremlin Watcher]

What is the NCAA waiting for? I mean it doesn't take this long to hand out punishments. All the facts are on the table. What the hell are they waiting for?

I think that's the point some have been trying to make: the NCAA is in a bureaucratic and political quandary. How do you mete out punishment to such a powerful and successful program? It seems like typical NCAA hypocrisy. I would be surprised if they don't basically ignore it and say the self-imposed sanction is enough. The process is so opaque it is impossible to understand how these decisions are made. Sepp Blatter might as well be in charge.

[Skeesix]

What is the NCAA waiting for? I mean it doesn't take this long to hand out punishments.

Yes it does. How long did it take for them to come down on USC for the Reggie Bush stuff? Even Bruce Pearl at UTK, we have an explicit timeline here:

http://www.govolsxtr...line-tennessee/

Seems to me like we're in the June-September 2010 portion of that timeline as far as Tressel goes.

[DannyHeep]

Yes it does. How long did it take for them to come down on USC for the Reggie Bush stuff? Even Bruce Pearl at UTK, we have an explicit timeline here:

http://www.govolsxtr...line-tennessee/

Seems to me like we're in the June-September 2010 portion of that timeline as far as Tressel goes.

They can certainly TAKE that long, but my point is that there is no reason to in this case. All the facts are on the table.

[Skeesix]

They can certainly TAKE that long, but my point is that there is no reason to in this case. All the facts are on the table.

I'm not so sure about that. It seems like more stuff's coming up all the time about Tressel's program, probably because NCAA fact finding is still going on.

[scottyno]

someone on pawn stars tonight pawned 2 pairs of ohio state "gold pants" apparently some sort of pendants given out to players when they beat michigan, that the players sold at some point to a collector who resold them to this guy; doug worthingtons from 2008 and leandre boones from 2002

[Sea Bass Neely]

someone on pawn stars tonight pawned 2 pairs of ohio state "gold pants" apparently some sort of pendants given out to players when they beat michigan, that the players sold at some point to a collector who resold them to this guy; doug worthingtons from 2008 and leandre boones from 2002

They are absolutely not Doug Worthington's. Donald Washington makes much more sense.

But yeah like at every school there is a lot of this stuff available.

[SumnerH]

someone on pawn stars tonight pawned 2 pairs of ohio state "gold pants" apparently some sort of pendants given out to players when they beat michigan, that the players sold at some point to a collector who resold them to this guy; doug worthingtons from 2008 and leandre boones from 2002

Selling that stuff to a collector isn't against the rules, though, is it? It may even be legally required in some cases (e.g. OJ's Heisman). I thought that it's only against the rules to sell it while you're an active NCAA player, in which case there's no real story here.

[Average Reds]

Selling that stuff to a collector isn't against the rules, though, is it? It may even be legally required in some cases (e.g. OJ's Heisman). I thought that it's only against the rules to sell it while you're an active NCAA player, in which case there's no real story here.

You are correct - it's only a violation to do this when you are an active player. So the underlying violation - like the situation with Pearl at UT - is somewhat minor. The violation that is potentially major is with Tressel knowing about this and doing nothing. And when he signed the compliance form last fall saying that he did not know of any violations by OSU players, he committed another violation - one that is likely to blow up on him.

Today, we learned when and where it may blow up. We also learned that the NCAA has officially alleged that Tressel is dishonest, which is never a good thing.

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=6424573

The news is not all bad for Ohio State, in the sense that they did not include an allegation that the school has created an atmosphere of non-compliance or any institutional misconduct. However, the news is very, very bad for Tressel, because the only reason they did not include this allegation is that they found no evidence that he told anyone in the administration of the violations. Which means that he will end up taking all the heat here.

My guess is that the NCAA may eventually issue a "show cause" letter for Tressel, which will mean that he ends up in career purgatory with Bruce Pearl.

Edit: Added back the link.

Edited by Average Reds, 25 April 2011 - 12:32 PM.

[Sea Dog]

The news is not all bad for Ohio State, in the sense that they did not include an allegation that the school has created an atmosphere of non-compliance or any institutional misconduct.

Yet. They haven't dropped that allegation yet. Given the O'Brien basketball scandal in the past decade, Ohio State could be seen by the NCAA as a repeat offender and drop some allegations on the athletic department as a whole.

I wonder how many leads the NCAA is still following up on in Columbus. The more details that come out, the deeper it gets.