227 replies to this topic

[HomeBrew1901]

this also means no more Michael Holley on CSNNE

Why not? There are plenty of folks from EEI on CSNNE, including Ordway, Smerlas and Deossie.

Edit: Narc, I don't think people are giving him the benefit of the doubt or that he is more or less informed than they other hosts, just that they like his style and what he brings to the table.

Edited by HomeBrew1901, 15 February 2011 - 08:16 PM.

[the1andonly3003]

Why not? There are plenty of folks from EEI on CSNNE, including Ordway, Smerlas and Deossie.

he usually does the early edition of Mohegan Sun's New England Sports Tonight...Brighton to Burlington can't be done in under 30 minutes

[HomeBrew1901]

he usually does the early edition of Mohegan Sun's New England Sports Tonight...Brighton to Burlington can't be done in under 30 minutes

Got it, he'll probably be on the later editions with Felger and on the weekends. Not to mention some of the Celtics stuff.

[Mo's OBP]

Probably would have asked him for clarification on what he meant by that. Would you expect him to make a big deal out of it?

If Gerry Callahan said that, doubt many of us would need clarification around here. Not looking to bury Ordway, but when I heard it in the car it certainly perked my ears. And given the personnel move he was about to make...he knew what he did, that's why he quickly mentioned an old boogie man that never trashed a hotel.

[the1andonly3003]

Got it, he'll probably be on the later editions with Felger and on the weekends. Not to mention some of the Celtics stuff.

only problem is that it's not on during the weekends

[HomeBrew1901]

If Gerry Callahan said that, doubt many of us would need clarification around here. Not looking to bury Ordway, but when I heard it in the car it certainly perked my ears. And given the personnel move he was about to make...he knew what he did, that's why he quickly mentioned an old boogie man that never trashed a hotel.

Then you're looking for a reason to perk your ears up. Ordway is a guy that gave Cedric Maxwell a chance to be on the show after his bacon and eggs comment and has been friends with Buckley for 20 years, plus he doesn't have a history of making racial statements or being a racist like Callahan does.

Plus what is wrong with what he said? Maybe he realized a split second after he said it that it could be taken the wrong way by folks like yourself looking to make an issue of it which is why he clarified or threw in the Manny Ramirez line.

[AquaNarc]

Just listened to the clip on EEI's site, Ordway does not sound enthused about this. I mean he's trying to, but it sort of comes off half-hearted.

[AimingForYoko]

Damnit. I was hoping D& C would kick it.

Edited by AimingForYoko, 15 February 2011 - 09:43 PM.

[SemperFidelisSox]

Gerry Callahan has a clause in his contract that keeps him from having to work with "those kind of people."

[Phenom]

WOW...there is a lot to digest here for someone like myself who cares a little to much about these things...

Many may have thought that "The Sports Hub's" launch would lead to EEI making some programming changes. But I don't think anybody thought that something as big as this would occur in only a year and a half. This is Boston's equivalent of "Mike and the Mad Dog" breaking up..."The Big Show" has been around with the same format for 15 years. But due to the viability of 98.5, they've been forced to alter the format. That's by far the biggest story here.

In terms of Ordway and Holley working together, I think this obviously makes "The Big Show" a little younger and fresher. It'll be interesting to see if Holley "ups the volume" with his on-air persona, as Ordway so often encourages his cohorts to do.

I also think that this show will be different than Felger and Mazz. In fact, it'll probably seem like the two programs are covering completely different teams at times (especially during football season).

On that point actually, remember when we all thought that 98.5 would be the place for more "intelligent and reasoned sports talk?" Well, as time has gone on, we've seen Felger and Massarotti stray away from reason. These two, for better or for worse, very often take histrionic sports talk to a whole different level. The tone of the show is arguably just as "mean-spirited," if not more "mean-spirited" than what "The Big Show" ever was.

So could it be that Ordway and Holley teamed up alongside guys like Maxwell, Buckley, Tom Curran, McAdam, etc will actually be the place to go for more in-depth discussion? I mean, this has the potential to be really good...imagine Ordway/Holley/Troy Brown on a Monday after a big Patriots' game.

Now I have been a huge proponent of Felger and Mazz since they've come on the air. But like many around here, I've tried over their schtick the past couple of months. Unless they decide to "spice up" their show a little bit by not banging the same 5 or 6 talking points into the ground, I may go back to WEEI from 2-6...

[Rocco Graziosa]

On that point actually, remember when we all thought that 98.5 would be the place for more "intelligent and reasoned sports talk?" Well, as time has gone on, we've seen Felger and Massarotti stray away from reason. These two, for better or for worse, very often take histrionic sports talk to a whole different level. The tone of the show is arguably just as "mean-spirited," if not more "mean-spirited" than what "The Big Show" ever was.

When was the Big Show ever "mean spirited"? IMO the show has been the biggest pom pom waver on the locals, especially the Patriots. All Holey is gonna do in that respect is tone down the idiocy (Butch Sterns, Larry Johnson, ect ect).........the pom pom waving will remain.

There is a danger here, that when the dust settles there will be no middle ground.......you want pom poms, go to EEI......you want these teams buried, go to the Hub. The Felger show has the potential to be great, but Mazz parroting the host will probably keep that from happening.

But who knows. Things are being shaken up here and Phenom you are SPOT on when you say this:

Many may have thought that "The Sports Hub's" launch would lead to EEI making some programming changes. But I don't think anybody thought that something as big as this would occur in only a year and a half. This is Boston's equivalent of "Mike and the Mad Dog" breaking up..."The Big Show" has been around with the same format for 15 years. But due to the viability of 98.5, they've been forced to alter the format. That's by far the biggest story here.

Amen. The Big Show was the highest rated sports talk show in the COUNTRY when this war started. Now they are completely revamping their lineup. Unreal. I wonder who's responsible at EEI for letting Felger go? I doubt he's still employed.

[the1andonly3003]

speaking of Patriot Monday, think of the BB interview with Orway and Holley...Ordway is a masterful interviewer and BB let Holley spend a year inside Gillette writing Patriot Reign...a lot to look forward to

[Rocco Graziosa]

speaking of Patriot Monday, think of the BB interview with Orway and Holley...Ordway is a masterful interviewer and BB let Holley spend a year inside Gillette writing Patriot Reign...a lot to look forward to

You really think Holley is gonna challenge BB in any way shape or form? Interviews I listened to on the Dale and Holley show were dreadfully blaze.

[the1andonly3003]

You really think Holley is gonna challenge BB in any way shape or form? Interviews I listened to on the Dale and Holley show were dreadfully blaze.

not saying he'll challenge him, but BB will be more comfortable with Holley, than say a Steve Burton

[PeaceSignMoose]

I'm imagining Wednesdays with Tito will just be a Francona/Merloni 1 on 1.

And yeah, we're going to get some really interesting stuff with Belichick this year. I wonder if they'll expand the lineup a bit on Mondays to get an extra guy in there. Does this mean the absolute demise for Fred and Steve? Can't imagine with the likes of Brown, Curran, McAdam, Buckley, etc lurking, there will be any more room for Smerlas and DeOssie's rambling stream of consciousness broadcasting style on air. I'm probably wrong though.

Edited by PeaceSignMoose, 15 February 2011 - 11:29 PM.

[Rocco Graziosa]

I'm imagining Wednesdays with Tito will just be a Francona/Merloni 1 on 1.

And yeah, we're going to get some really interesting stuff with Belichick this year. I wonder if they'll expand the lineup a bit on Mondays to get an extra guy in there. Does this mean the absolute demise for Fred and Steve? Can't imagine with the likes of Brown, Curran, McAdam, Buckley, etc lurking, there will be any more room for Smerlas and DeOssie's rambling stream of consciousness broadcasting style on air. I'm probably wrong though.

To me "Fred and Steve" represent everything wrong with WEEI and the Big Show. Stupid pom pom wavers, and jock sniffers, who offer little more than a recap of the game of the week while counting the cash they can make from advertisement spots that pimp their stupid steak house, thats in, of all places, Rhode Island. The next pointed question those two shills ask Bill Belichick will be their first.

I'm interested to see what happens to those two dolts.

Edited by Rocco Graziosa, 16 February 2011 - 12:13 AM.

[PeaceSignMoose]

I'm interested to see what happens to those two dolts.

We should get a good idea in a month and change, as NFL Draft talk starts to ramp up. Just a feeling, but I think that Steve will continue to be used pretty often, and Fred will be phased out. Steve seems capable of making a rare coherent point on his own. But if you pair him with Smerlas, it just turns into Animal House.

[teddykgb]

And yeah, we're going to get some really interesting stuff with Belichick this year.

Some of you guys are high. The next time BB says something interesting in one of those interviews will be the first time. It's not like he and Holley are boys....hell, he stiffs smerlas and deossie regularly and he's actually close with at least one of them.

This shakeup isn't all that sensible to me. Holley is way way way overrated on here. He's probably not a good complement to Ordway, but I was never big on him partnering Felger either. He's really got no depth and does resort to a lot of talking over people, and worst of all he engages moron callers and lengthens those brutal situations more than they need to be. Merloni is just ok, Mutt is nothing incredible....it feels a lot like change for change's sake.

[the1andonly3003]

Dale Arnold will be on tomorrow, tweeting this:

"DaleEArnold:
Talk to everyone tomorrow morning at 10 AM on #SportsradioWEEI.
5 hours ago"

[Gambler7]

Seems like weird timing to me, must be a contract thing to have to do this now.

D&H was the only show I consistently followed on EEI. I will miss it. Then funny thing is over the past month or so I've actually been listening to the Big Show more than Felger and Mazz and thought they had made a lot of strides lately in changing their format a little. I'll still be interested in seeing how Holley and Ordway work together, I could see it going either way, but it's a pretty big risk for them.

I can't stand "Mut" and don't understand how he gets this spot. Can't believe I will be listening to either Gresh and Zo from 10-2 or music. What did Pete Sheppard do at EEI anyways to get let go? Even he would be better in that spot than Mike Mutnansky. Looks to me like EEI thinks they need to get younger, but it doesn't matter if that young talent isn't very good.

They have a poll on the Herald site with just over 1300 votes so far with these results:
10% - Michael Holley will help Ordway
36% - Sad to see Dale & Holley go
43% - 98.5 The Sports Hub is better anyway
11% - We’ll have to wait and see

Edited by Gambler7, 16 February 2011 - 08:40 AM.

[The Allented Mr Ripley]

To me "Fred and Steve" represent everything wrong with WEEI and the Big Show. Stupid pom pom wavers, and jock sniffers, who offer little more than a recap of the game of the week while counting the cash they can make from advertisement spots that pimp their stupid steak house, thats in, of all places, Rhode Island. The next pointed question those two shills ask Bill Belichick will be their first.

I'm interested to see what happens to those two dolts.

Now that Holley's on board in the afternoon, if EEI puts Smerlas and DeOssie out to pasture I'd probably go back to listening to The Big Show at least half of the time, if not more (I had completely ditched it once 98.5 got up and running).

[the1andonly3003]

could Dale have not wanted to break in a new partner at this stage in his career?

[Dave Stapleton]

I am guessing that they needed to make this move to keep Holley. Just a gut feeling.

[Gambler7]

Sounds like Dale and Holley could be must listen today. Dale just did the crossover and sounds absolutely miserable. Didn't hide it much.

[dcmissle]

When was the Big Show ever "mean spirited"? IMO the show has been the biggest pom pom waver on the locals, especially the Patriots. All Holey is gonna do in that respect is tone down the idiocy (Butch Sterns, Larry Johnson, ect ect).........the pom pom waving will remain.

All too frequently in its treatment of callers. It never bothered me particularly that the hosts waved pom poms, esp because some of it -- e.g., with Smerlas -- was an inside joke. I didn't care too much because you could count on callers to bring criticisms to the table, even if often half baked.

What sent me over the edge is when the jocks then pistol whipped the critical callers, esp DeOsse, who is particularly adept with the techniques and strategems of talk radio host thuggery -- e.g., switch the question and then demand, in ever increasing volume, that the caller answer the question -- while making that impossible by cutting the caller off.

I think the audience grew tired of this, which "bad" Ordway aided and abetted, and of Ordway taking 12 weeks of vacation per year, often at critical times, with guys who have no business on the radio filling the void,

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

In a way, I feel a bit bad for Dale Arnold. He's never been my favorite host, but he never has been my least favorite either; I think that he was workman in his duties. Maybe once or twice a year he got his panties in a bunch, but that was better than the normal over-reactions of sports hosts. As a person who was with this station since Day One (I think it was him, Ordway and Sarandis) this is a really shitty way to be shown the door. Especially since his show wasn't getting its ass kicked.

Obviously, I understand that business is business but the lack of loyalty is a bit off-putting. And seriously, he put up with five years with Eddie Andelman. Christ,that's hell on Earth.

This seems very similar to the way that Arnold lost his job with the Bruins.

[jsinger121]

In a way, I feel a bit bad for Dale Arnold. He's never been my favorite host, but he never has been my least favorite either; I think that he was workman in his duties. Maybe once or twice a year he got his panties in a bunch, but that was better than the normal over-reactions of sports hosts. As a person who was with this station since Day One (I think it was him, Ordway and Sarandis) this is a really shitty way to be shown the door. Especially since his show wasn't getting its ass kicked.

Obviously, I understand that business is business but the lack of loyalty is a bit off-putting. And seriously, he put up with five years with Eddie Andelman. Christ,that's hell on Earth.

This seems very similar to the way that Arnold lost his job with the Bruins.

I think Andelman was at WEEI at its inception.

[Vinho Tinto]

I can't stand "Mut" and don't understand how he gets this spot.

I'm figuring, at worst, he gives you 70% of Dale Arnold for 15% of the cost. I can't imagine he's making more than jack shit.

What did Pete Sheppard do at EEI anyways to get let go?

He was the anti-"Mut". IIRC, he was earning six figures. When they were looking to cut cost, his salary had to stick out in bold.

[BS_SoxFan]

I think Andelman was at WEEI at its inception.

Dale was too. They just weren't paired up right away.

[vadertime]

Sounds like Dale and Holley could be must listen today. Dale just did the crossover and sounds absolutely miserable. Didn't hide it much.

been a yawnfest so far.

edit -- here we go when they get back from break.

Edited by vadertime, 16 February 2011 - 10:16 AM.

[PeaceSignMoose]

Dale sounds like he's on the verge of tears right now.

[dcmissle]

Dale sounds like he's on the verge of tears right now.

Well face it, he's cooked -- at the not-so-old age of 54 or whatever.

As noted above, he's workmanlike and professional. There is no market for that. There is a a market for making crap up and throwing it against the wall.

[PeaceSignMoose]

My God. This is going to be terrible.

Dale back doing a bunch of Red Sox games when O'Brien is doing Wednesday Night Baseball. Also filling in for Grande during March Madness.

Edited by PeaceSignMoose, 16 February 2011 - 10:22 AM.

[Lose Remerswaal]

My God. This is going to be terrible.

Dale back doing a bunch of Red Sox games when O'Brien is doing Wednesday Night Baseball. Also filling in for Grande during March Madness.

So only doing play by play, no more general talk?

[dcmissle]

So only doing play by play, no more general talk?

first guy off the bench during the week and expanded weekend role ... that's it

he is on the verge of tears ... badly hurt ... only consolation, RS pbp opportunity

[Lose Remerswaal]

I'm listening now

[PeaceSignMoose]

So only doing play by play, no more general talk?

First man off the bench, and it sounds like they're expanding the Sunday football show, making it longer and year round (it'll be a baseball show during the Summer though)

We're still going to hear a lot of Dale. Sounds like he's going to be on The Big Show for 18 weeks a year, or however long Ordway is on vacation. It's going to feel like he never left.

[Ed Hillel]

This really sucks; D+H was by far my favorite of the major shows.

I understand the reason for taking Arnold off, I suppose, but I personally think he was one of the better guys on Boston radio talk. The fact, though, is that people in this area would rather listen to Felger go crazy, raise his voice and to have Mazz suck him off than to listen to a more reasoned discussion provided by Dale and Holley.

Was it not economically feasible to have added a 3rd wheel to the show? Maybe Dale or Holley refused to do that? I would have rather they just added someone a bit louder than to have broken up these two.

Edit - Just saw Gambler's post below...so I guess people would not rather listen to Felger, which makes this move even more confusing to me.

Edited by Ed Hillel, 16 February 2011 - 10:34 AM.

[Rocco Graziosa]

Well face it, he's cooked -- at the not-so-old age of 54 or whatever.

As noted above, he's workmanlike and professional. There is no market for that. There is a a market for making crap up and throwing it against the wall.

He's boring. Theres no market for that. (unless your the only game in town......then he's safe, cheap and the ultimate company man)

Good riddance.

[Gambler7]

He's boring. Theres no market for that.

Except, again, D&H was the only show consistently beating 98.5 in their time slot in the more important numbers.

So, there definitely is some sort of market there.

[PeaceSignMoose]

I mean I was never a huge fan of John Rish's broadcasting style, but is Dale really a better choice than Rish for what will amount to around 35 games a year (25-30 for O'Brien because of ESPN commitments, assume another 5 for illness to either Castiglione or O'Brien)?

[Mystic Merlin]

I guess Dale should've manufactured some false outrage a bit more. Or repeating talking points like he had Tourette's. Or 'taking the teams/players to task as a speaker of truth'. Or maybe he could've just started yelling.

In any case, he got ratings in that slot, and I enjoyed having him and Holley on in the background. I don't think it ever occurred to me that they didn't express their opinions, but it did occur to me that they managed to not have binary sports brains. It was a nice change of pace to have a dialed-down show in which the hosts admitted it when they weren't sure about something. What was that Voltaire quote? Something about being ignorant because you answer every question you're asked?

I can understand someone finding Dale Arnold bland, but he did a solid job and brought the station ratings. And I appreciated him not always having an opinion for the sake of it.

[Andy Merchant]

As someone who's been pushed out the door with very little notice or professionalism, I feel bad for the guy. Pretty crappy that he only found out about this yesterday and had to read in the paper that Mutt & Merloni were going to replace him. It was also pretty telling that he wished he had left WEEI for the full time Bruins gig on NESN when he had that chance.

IMO, Dale is pretty much defined as having been on the best (Dale & Holley) and worst (The A Team) shows at different eras on WEEI. He's not really good and he's not really bad. I just hope I'm not stuck listening to Gresh and Zolak during mid-days.

[Rocco Graziosa]

As someone who's been pushed out the door with very little notice or professionalism, I feel bad for the guy. Pretty crappy that he only found out about this yesterday and had to read in the paper that Mutt & Merloni were going to replace him. It was also pretty telling that he wished he had left WEEI for the full time Bruins gig on NESN when he had that chance.

IMO, Dale is pretty much defined as having been on the best (Dale & Holley) and worst (The A Team) shows at different eras on WEEI. He's not really good and he's not really bad. I just hope I'm not stuck listening to Gresh and Zolak during mid-days.

I think a lot of my distain for Arnold comes from his "A team" days. That might have been the worst sports radio talk show in the history of the medium. Sometimes I would listen just to marvel at how horrible the show was and wonder how long it was going to take WEEI to realize its spectacular suck. IMO he didn't deserve to survive that trainwreck.

Edited by Rocco Graziosa, 16 February 2011 - 10:43 AM.

[Vinho Tinto]

Except, again, D&H was the only show consistently beating 98.5 in their time slot in the more important numbers.

So, there definitely is some sort of market there.

I really cannot emphasize enough how irrelevant the midday slot is for sports and music stations. The only people in radio who are big in that time slot are a few right wing personalities (IE Rush and Glenn Beck). Winning the midday is as relevant as the Bruins winning the Adams division.

EDIT: I don't disagree with the idea they wasn't successful or that he couldn't have been paired with Lou. The reason he is gone is that they are doing big changes anyways, so they are going with a much cheaper alternate.

Edited by Vinho Tinto, 16 February 2011 - 10:46 AM.

[dcmissle]

Except, again, D&H was the only show consistently beating 98.5 in their time slot in the more important numbers.

So, there definitely is some sort of market there.

You're right. I should have said there is no perceived market for that among the 'EEI brass.

Just so there is no mistaking what happened here, the breakup of this tandem has nothing to do with its deficiencies. It has everything to do with the deficiencies of The Big Show and, probably, a necessary measure to keep Holley long term.

[Vinho Tinto]

Sometimes I would listen just to marvel at how horrible the show was and wonder how long it was going to take WEEI to realize its spectacular suck.

You weren't mesmerized by Eddie's monthly recounting of how he created the Royal Rumble?

[Rocco Graziosa]

You're right. I should have said there is no perceived market for that among the 'EEI brass.

Just so there is no mistaking what happened here, the breakup of this tandem has nothing to do with its deficiencies. It has everything to do with the deficiencies of The Big Show and, probably, a necessary measure to keep Holley long term.

Then why isn't Dale Arnold doing the mid day show with Lou Merloni?

[Harry Hooper]

I am guessing that they needed to make this move to keep Holley. Just a gut feeling.

Yes, retain Holley by shift to Big Show, which might turn out to be a disaster, but probably a smaller disaster than losing him to 98.5. This leaves the expensive Merloni with less to do than had been planned, so shift him to the midday slot. Finish the shuffle by moving in the cheap Mutnansky in place of Arnold.

[Gambler7]

I don't disagree with anything in the last few posts. Clearly it was about keeping Holley, trying to battle for the drive time slot in the PM, and going cheaper in the mid day as it isn't one of the more important slots. Only thing I disagree with is that there isn't a market for toned down, not over the top talk like Dale and Holley, there clearly was.