50 replies to this topic

[Foulkey Reese]

PeteAbe Pete Abraham
This just in: the #RedSox have signed Alfredo Aceves to a Major League deal. Info per @NickCafardo.

Interesting.

His 2010 ended with a back strain that was though to be fairly serious at the time.

Edited by Foulkey Reese, 08 February 2011 - 04:40 PM.

[RedOctober3829]

The deal is worth $650,000 with $200,000 guaranteed. There are also incentive clauses based on how much he pitches.

Aceves worked out for the Red Sox yesterday. The 28-year-old was 14-1 with a 3.21 ERA in 59 career appearances for the Yankees, five of them starts, over three seasons. He pitched only 12 innings last season because of various injuries and was non-tendered by the Yankees.

With Aceves in the fold, the Red Sox will have to make room on the 40-man roster for him.

Link

[xjack]

I like this move, if only because it shows Theo is still working hard to improve even the least important roster spot on the team. But I'm starting to feel bad for Scott Atchison. He was a more-than-serviceable reliever last year, and now it's going to take a bunch of injuries for him to be on the opening day roster.

[Foulkey Reese]

Career FIP of 4.13, doesn't walk a ton of people, decent stats for NY in the AL East. Seems like a good way to spend $650,000+ if he's healthy.

[Joshv02]

Unless I'm missing something, it appears that he has at least one (and likely two) option remaining. His contract was purchased in 2008, but he wasn't optioned. He was optioned in 2009. He doesn't appear to have been optioned in 2010, but regardless he seems to have at least one left (and has less than 5 years of ml time, obviously).

Decent depth signing. Who is removed from the 40? Bowden? Coello? Nava?

[SoxScout]

12/1/10

NEW YORK — New York Yankees relief pitcher Alfredo Aceves is expected to miss the start of spring training after breaking his left collar bone in a bicycle accident in Mexico.

The Yankees say Aceves had surgery Tuesday in New York. The right-hander will need three months for full rehabilitation. Aceves was 3-0 in 10 games last season before a strained lower back in mid-May sidelined him for the rest of the year.

http://www.huffingto...t_n_790691.html

[mabrowndog]

With Aceves in the fold, the Red Sox will have to make room on the 40-man roster for him.

Either Nava or Coello, I would think.

[TheYellowDart5]

Either Nava or Coello, I would think.

Mark Wagner is another possibility.

[mabrowndog]

The 3.21 ERA, 6.2 K/9, and 2.1 BB/9 in 126 career innings are somewhat promising.

The 38.6% career ground ball rate is not.

[SoxScout]

SI_JonHeyman: #mets also offered big-league deal to aceves. but he wanted to play for #redsox.

SI_JonHeyman: aceves signs major league deal for 650 grand w/ #redsox, as @nickcafardo reported. 25 Gs for 35 games, 40, 45 & 50

http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman

[RedOctober3829]

PeteAbe
Just confirmed that Aceves has two options left, so not a lot of risk for the #RedSox. Source said he threw "very well" for them.

[Lose Remerswaal]

So if he's still hurt and is expected to miss a couple of months (or more), can he get put on the 40 man roster, and then moved onto the 60 day DL? I know you'd have to clear a spot on the 40 briefly, but there's lots of that going on in ST, so you might not lose anyone

[SoxScout]

The Sox don’t expect Aceves to have any restrictions in spring training. While his success in the majors was primarily as a reliever for the Yankees, the Sox are looking at him more as a starter.

http://fullcount.wee...alfredo-aceves/

[RedOctober3829]

Atchison is saved for the moment. This is pretty surprising.

The Sox don’t expect Aceves to have any restrictions in spring training. While his success in the majors was primarily as a reliever for the Yankees, the Sox are looking at him more as a starter.

Link

[Adirondack jack]

Career FIP of 4.13, doesn't walk a ton of people, decent stats for NY in the AL East. Seems like a good way to spend $650,000+ if he's healthy.

Why did the Yanks let him go?

Sure he struggled last year, it pretty much was a lost year, but you would think someone with less than 2 years of MLB service time with 2 options remaining (and those #'s) would be an asset worth holding on to.

Edited by Adirondack jack, 08 February 2011 - 05:51 PM.

[mabrowndog]

the Sox are looking at him more as a starter.

I wonder if Aceves and his agent realize that, considering his incentives don't get triggered until he pitches in 35 games and aren't maxed until he exceeds 50 games.

[E5 Yaz]

All this depth is interesting. It does make you wonder if they sort things out in ST, then try to make a minor deal or two

[shepard50]

So if he's still hurt and is expected to miss a couple of months (or more), can he get put on the 40 man roster, and then moved onto the 60 day DL? I know you'd have to clear a spot on the 40 briefly, but there's lots of that going on in ST, so you might not lose anyone

But the three months of rehab was from 12/1/2010. He'd be expected (if on track) to miss Pitcher's reporting date but make most of Spring Training. If he were on the 60 day DL, he wouldn't be available to the Major League team until mid-April. This only makes sense (to me) if they are looking to stash him in Pawtucket as insurance for the first few weeks of the season.

[SoxFanSince57]

All this depth is interesting. It does make you wonder if they sort things out in ST, then try to make a minor deal or two

Agreed. It certainly has me wondering 1) what was said to Aceves, Okajima, Reyes (milb deal) etc...to get them to sign with the Sox and 2) why didn't other teams land them. Theo has filled the pantry with RPs.

Sox Prospects now has Doubront and Miller in Pawtucket's starting rotation. If Aceves signing was to provide more AAA depth to the rotation, that would be interesting too.

[xjack]

According to Wikipedia, Aceves "wears #91 to honor Dennis Rodman, whom Aceves admires for his antics and championships."

http://en.wikipedia..../Alfredo_Aceves

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

Atchison is saved for the moment. This is pretty surprising.



Link

I would imagine Tim Wakefield does not approve.

[shepard50]

Nice and even on the career splits:

BAA versus RHB: .221 SO/BB 2.94
BAA versus LHB: .221 SO/BB 2.86

[Flynn4ever]

My guess, and this is ONLY a guess, is that this is a kick in Dice-K's butt. You are back because we were able to get better without dealing you, not because you are good!

[Buzzkill Pauley]

[edit] duplicate

Edited by Buzzkill Pauley, 09 February 2011 - 06:46 AM.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

My guess, and this is ONLY a guess, is that this is a kick in Dice-K's butt. You are back because we were able to get better without dealing you, not because you are good!

That's delusional.

How can signing someone with a career 4.13 FIP over 126 IP (54 G, 5 GS) be a kick the butt of someone with a 4.21 FIP over 585 IP (98 G, 98 GS)? Is it Aceves' .726 OPS that DiceK should find threatening (compared to his own .724)? Or Aceves' 5.3 IP/GS average (instead of DiceK's 6.0)? Or is it that signing a 28-year old relief pitcher with options remaining usually sends a clear message to a 30-year old starter's butt? That doesn't sound like a guess, it sounds like an agenda.

If any butt is on the line for a kick, it belongs to the various RHRPs otherwise lined up to take Wake's role as swingman in 2012: Atchison (career FIP = 4.38), Albers (4.69), Duckworth (4.72), and Bowden. Plus it probably deep-sixes Wakefield's chances for coming back after his current deal ends.

[Flynn4ever]

That's delusional.

How can signing someone with a career 4.13 FIP over 126 IP (54 G, 5 GS) be a kick the butt of someone with a 4.21 FIP over 585 IP (98 G, 98 GS)? Is it Aceves' .726 OPS that DiceK should find threatening (compared to his own .724)? Or Aceves' 5.3 IP/GS average (instead of DiceK's 6.0)? Or is it that signing a 28-year old relief pitcher with options remaining usually sends a clear message to a 30-year old starter's butt? That doesn't sound like a guess, it sounds like an agenda.

Buzz, I made it clear that this was only a guess, but Aceves has shown one clear trait over his career that Dice K hasn't over his Red Sox career (and I live in Japan so I know he HAD it here) which is consistency! Earlier posts said that the Sox were looking to move him (Aceves) into a starter role, so this is why I speculated that this might be, as I said, a kick in the butt. Not saying that I am an authority on this, but being where I am and knowing what I know, stats otherwise, I have a feeling that this might be a hint to Mr. Matsuzaka. That's all I am saying!
*edit* Sorry, no other posts seem to be advocating Aceves as a starter, that was another article.
http://fullcount.wee...alfredo-aceves/

Edited by Flynn4ever, 09 February 2011 - 08:14 AM.

[Clears Cleaver]

So, if he's healthy, then he is basically DiceK without the K's and BB's? What it does is provide depth in case they finally are able to trade DiceK (which would only happen if Beckett was back to 1h09 form and Lackey was healthy). There is no downside to this and provides #6 or #7 depth as well as a long man that realy doesn't exist beyond Wakefield.

It's all good

[TheoShmeo]

I think folks are getting a bit ahead of themselves.

It's easier to dial Aceves back from starter to reliever than vice-versa. I think gearing him to be a starter is smart in that it might give the Sox a good option. At the same time, Aceves has enjoyed great success as a reliever and whether he can replicate that as a starter is much more of a jump ball.

And even if they are going to put him into the rotation eventually, I think the more likely scenario is waiting for one of the five presumptive starters to get hurt than focusing any particular attention on Dice. Hell, it wouldn't be surprising if one or more of them didn't make it out of ST given their ages and histories. Having another option to go along with Wake and Felix is good business.

[xjack]

It's easier to dial Aceves back from starter to reliever than vice-versa. I think gearing him to be a starter is smart in that it might give the Sox a good option.

The sample size is small, but Aceves has been far more effective pitching out of the pen: 609 OPS-against as a reliever vs. 726 as a starter.

[Eric Van]

I'm with those who see this move as primarily affecting Tim Wakefield* -- although more in terms of likely-needed insurance. It is also part of a pattern (along with bringing in Miller, re-signing Hill and Oki, and signing Reyes) where they are comitting to Doubront as a SP.

It's not clear that Aceves is a better SP than the healthy Tim Wakefield we saw through age 42. He is almost certainly better that the healthy Wakefield we saw last year, or what Wakefield is projected for this year. Wakes be given the opportunity to bounce back at age 44, which is by no means impossible for a knuckleball pitcher but nothing you'd want to bet on.

Aceves should be at Pawtucket, waiting for a SP injury, at which point Wakefield gets a rotation spot and Aceves, rather than Doubront, gets the call-up for the long relief job. That emphasizes how much they want to give Doubront a full development year rather than have him spend a significant chunk of it as an underworked pen member. That in turn maximizes Doubront's trade value as a SP for next winter -- and also keeps open the possibility of Dice-K pitching well enough to establish some trade value with one year left on his contract, with Doubront then serving as (at the very least) a bridge to Ranaudo.

By mid-season, of course, Aceves could well have Wakefield's job. Should Wakefield bounce back, however, Aceves will be at the head of the group of guys (including Coello, Bowden, Miller, Hill and/or Reyes, and Albers and/or Atchison if they clear waivers) trying to wrest the last set-up job from whoever wins it in ST.

There seem to be a lot of candidates for the last three spots in the pen, in terms of who we'll see down the stretch--the 11 guys already mentioned plus Tazawa.

*At the MLB level. Adam Mills now needs an injury to someone ahead of him to keep his PawSox rotation spot, and Kris Johnson probably needs two.

Edited by Eric Van, 09 February 2011 - 02:59 PM.

[reggiecleveland]

This is my annual "You can never have too much pitching post."

Teams gets lots of pitchers because they get hurt a lot and have variable performances from year to year. Very rarely does it turn out a team has too much pitching. There is no hidden agenda in acquring a guy with potential. If he is pitching well the odds are that there will at least one person on the staff not pitching well, or injured and he will pitch.

[Sprowl]

A healthy Aceves has four good pitches, with the 91 mph fastball the most pedestrian of them. The cutter, curveball and changeup are all more effective, with the breakdown roughly 45% fastball, 22% cutter, 16% curve, and 17% changeup. A reliever with 4 good pitches is a good candidate for conversion to starter (just as keeping a 5-pitch hurler like Doubront in the starter's role makes sense).

Fangraphs pitch type values

I am puzzled why the Yankees would cut Aceves loose when they could have exercised his options themselves.

[phrenile]

I am puzzled why the Yankees would cut Aceves loose when they could have exercised his options themselves.

During the winter meetings, it was suggested they wanted to free up his 40 man roster spot.

[Joshv02]

During the winter meetings, it was suggested they wanted to free up his 40 man roster spot.

Seems like a poor use of resources, though, as they picked two Rule 5 players and neither (or at least Turpen) has a real shot of making the team out of ST. While they had little info at the time they had to make a tender decision (I believe knowledge of the accident came the day before the decision had to be made), if they later needed to waive him after knowing the extent of his injury, its only a $80-100k investment (1/6 of whatever his pre-arb contact would be).

[mabrowndog]

Is anyone else concerned by Aceves' low GB rate? Fangraphs has his GB% as 41.9%, 35.2% and 50.0% for 2008-09-10. His 2009 season accounts for 2/3 of his career innings. His home line that year was .176/.229/.278/.507 with a 38.3 GB%, a 1.61 ERA and ridiculous .200 BABIP in 189 PA. On the road, it was .277/.318/.467/.785 with a 31.5 GB%, a 6.42 ERA and a far more reasonable .311 BABIP in 148 PA. He gave up 11 doubles and 5 HR away, and just 3 doubles and 5 HR at the Toilet while facing 41 more batters. I tried checking out his hit charts at mlb.com, but the geniuses there haven't seen fit to add "new" Yankee Stadium to the venue drop-down list.

I'm hoping his future success is rooted more in the varied pitch arsenal Sprowl noted, instead of the huge reliance on home stadium luck that seems to have driven his 2009. He's clearly been primarily a fly ball pitcher, and I doubt Fenway will be as hospitable with them no matter who patrols the outfield for the Sox.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Buzz, I made it clear that this was only a guess, but Aceves has shown one clear trait over his career that Dice K hasn't over his Red Sox career (and I live in Japan so I know he HAD it here) which is consistency! Earlier posts said that the Sox were looking to move him (Aceves) into a starter role, so this is why I speculated that this might be, as I said, a kick in the butt. Not saying that I am an authority on this, but being where I am and knowing what I know, stats otherwise, I have a feeling that this might be a hint to Mr. Matsuzaka. That's all I am saying!
*edit* Sorry, no other posts seem to be advocating Aceves as a starter, that was another article.
http://fullcount.wee...alfredo-aceves/

No worries, and sorry if I sounded terse before -- posting before daily coffee is never a good idea, and neither is posting here right after reading the comments on a WEEI article.

Frankly, after reading early on in the offseason that Matsuzaka was going to stay in Hawa'ii and do his own thing during the offseason I've been rather worried about him, too. I just don't see this move as directly related to his status on the Sox. Nor have I been positively surprised to find anything by the crack beantown media corps reporting that Curt Young was making any extra effort in working with him. So I have concern too, but whatever.

And regarding the NYY's release of Aceves, I think that should be set down to timing more than anything -- since when they cut him loose on 12/2, they could still be confident that Benjamin Dollar would find a way to fit both Lee and Pettitte on the 40-man. Since he's historically outperformed his peripherals significantly, he certainly seemed a decent candidate for non-tender before a painful regression on the big stage (especially considering his injury history). In a way he's the anti-Bowden, who's consistently underperformed at the MLB level.

[SoxScout]

Coello designated for assignment according to Lauber

[Alcohol&Overcalls]

The sample size is small, but Aceves has been far more effective pitching out of the pen: 609 OPS-against as a reliever vs. 726 as a starter.

This should really be expected for every pitcher to some extent, though - BP had a good Unfiltered discussing this, although they just use the larger sample of relief innings.

With those numbers in mind, it's definitely an interesting value signing.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Coello designated for assignment according to Lauber

I'm surprised it was Coello over Nava, considering the emphasis the organization places on outfield defense.

Maybe they figured because Fox was able to clear waivers, so will another somewhat-older-than-usual relief pitching prospect with little MLB experience.

[edit:] Speier now reporting that Atchison has yet another option to burn! SoxProspects update has it from 2004, so he would have to clear OAV again.

Edited by Buzzkill Pauley, 09 February 2011 - 04:54 PM.

[mabrowndog]

[edit:] Speier now reporting that Atchison has yet another option to burn! SoxProspects update has it from 2004, so he would have to clear OAV again.

I posted the breakdown of Atchison's transactions back in December. He does have another option left, and yes, he would have to clear Optional Assignment Waivers.

[bd11]

I am puzzled why the Yankees would cut Aceves loose when they could have exercised his options themselves.

Especially when you consider the candidates they presently have for the fourth and fifth (and sixth) starter positions.

[HriniakPosterChild]

I am puzzled why the Yankees would cut Aceves loose when they could have exercised his options themselves.

Return of the Embedded Yankee.

Soon to be playing at a ballpark near you!

[pokey_reese]

Theo is a madman. If you consider Aceves as a reliever (which I am, for the purposes of this post), he has gone out and assembled what is on paper perhaps the deepest relief corps with best top-end talent I can remember. Seriously, this team basically has 3 closers and more decent-or-better middle relievers than I have ever seen a team have going into spring training. Sure, a lot of these guys are lottery tickets or attempts to fix a lost prospect, but there is a fair track record of success mixed in there. How forgotten has Dan Wheeler been over the last few weeks? Considering the fact that the bullpen was a real weakness for this team last year, the fact that he could go into ST as something of a back-burner story is amazing. Considering that the top 4 guys in the pen are locked in, we basically just need to get lucky with one of the LHPs to have a fantastic group of relievers, assuming that anyone in the deep RHP group steps up (and given the variability in RPs, one of them probably will).

I am really excited to see these guys in the spring, and I am more impressed by the remade bullpen than the Crawford signing. Finally, Matsuzaka won't have to pretend to be anything more than a 5-inning pitcher!

[xjack]

I am puzzled why the Yankees would cut Aceves loose when they could have exercised his options themselves.

I am too. Maybe they suspect that Aceves did not break his collarbone in a "bicycle accident." If the guy's role model is Dennis Rodman, risky behavior would be par for the course.
'

[TomRicardo]

I'm surprised it was Coello over Nava, considering the emphasis the organization places on outfield defense.

Maybe they figured because Fox was able to clear waivers, so will another somewhat-older-than-usual relief pitching prospect with little MLB experience.

[edit:] Speier now reporting that Atchison has yet another option to burn! SoxProspects update has it from 2004, so he would have to clear OAV again.

Nava is far less likely to make it through waivers than Coello. Nava is a switch hitting OF with plate patience and a little pop. He would be snatched by an NL team in a millisecond.

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Nava is far less likely to make it through waivers than Coello. Nava is a switch hitting OF with plate patience and a little pop. He would be snatched by an NL team in a millisecond.

That's entirely true, and I understand it from the standpoint of trying to maximize organizational assets.

However, even considering that, I wonder how he would be able to break onto the MLB club within the next two years of his minor league options. Even the injury concerns of the OF to start the season are concentrated in RF and CF, neither of which Nava is able to play adequately. In addition to Kalish and Reddick, Lin and Linares could very easily be better 4th OF options by March '12, while both Hassan and Hazelbaker may make enough noise in the mid-minors to be included in the discussion later that season.

In the immediate short-term the Sox have redundancy with Sutton this season (also a patient switch-hitter with a little pop, and an advantage in defensive versatility).

While it would be an organizational loss to have him claimed by an NL club, I believe the system could bear it better than losing a high-strikeout AAA reliever.

[TomRicardo]

While it would be an organizational loss to have him claimed by an NL club, I believe the system could bear it better than losing a high-strikeout AAA reliever.

The thing si they probably won't lose Coello. Everyone had Coellos up the butt right now. I doubt he gets grabbed right now. He will be outrighted and rightfully back to Pawtucket.

[SoxFanSince57]

Epstein envisions him competing for a job in the bullpen or being developed as a starter in Pawtucket.

“We really needed to add somebody who could start major-league games and compete in the American League East. He has the opportunity to do that for us,” Epstein said. “The fact that he’s pitched well in the division stood out for us and made him a target.”

http://www.boston.co...g_up_the_2.html

[someoneanywhere]

I am really excited to see these guys in the spring, and I am more impressed by the remade bullpen than the Crawford signing. Finally, Matsuzaka won't have to pretend to be anything more than a 5-inning pitcher!

That seems a little overthetop to me: a part of your team that you recycle year to year over the acquisition of a signature talent? I like the pen, too. On paper. I like Crawford as a game-changer even more, and feel surer about his performance on the field.

At any rate, the oft-acerbic Christina Kahrl over at BP likes this deal, too.

Given Boston's depth, Aceves' real value might be in exactly that middle-innings role. He ranked seventh in the majors in relief innings thrown in 2009, averaging almost two frames per appearance, or doing about the closest thing anyone's allowed to achieve these days that approximates... well, Bob Stanley, not to take the man's name in vain. Aceves did that and posted a strikeout rate north of 20 percent, reflecting the virtues of a deep arsenal. If there's a problem on the performance front, it's that he's going to give up home runs—he's a fairly extreme fly-ball pitcher, so if you keep planting that patch, eventually you're sure to get taters. That may not fly in a contender's rotation, but for a space-absorbing middle man who allows Terry Francona to stack up his expensive famous people for late-game matchups, Aceves could be more than just a bargain, he could be downright valuable.

[dynomite]

At any rate, the oft-acerbic Christina Kahrl over at BP likes this deal, too.

I think she's right about how valuable he can be.

Given the injury concerns all over our clubhouse, I think Theo is doing exactly what he should be doing -- stockpiling replacement-level players to minimize the impact of any short-term injuries. There'll come a time in July/August where a large number of Beckett/Lackey/Jenks/Wheeler/Wakfield/etc. will be on the DL, and we're prepared for that now.

I also think this reflects Theo's feelings about the bullpen generally -- it's roughly random which pitchers will have stellar years in the bullpen, and the more talented guys you have the more likely you are to all of a sudden turn into the '02 Angels/'08 Rays, with 3-4 guys having career years.