62 replies to this topic

[jon abbey]

With NY still refusing to commit to paying a veteran to compete with Mitre and Nova for the last two rotation spots, it's looking more and more like they are expecting (hoping) some of the prospects can contribute this year. Here's a general list to start, in my guess at the current pecking order to contribute this year.

Hector Noesi (24)
David Phelps (24)
Andrew Brackman (25)
Adam Warren (24)
Dellin Betances (23)
Manny Banuelos (20)

Brett Marshall, Graham Stoneburner and Jose Ramirez also all have rotation potential, but that would really be digging deep, all likely starting in A ball this year.

Innings limits should be checked for all of these guys, although I think NY wouldn't really care if they think they can do the best job for the first half of the season, giving Cashman more time for the next Haren to hopefully pop up.

Noesi, Betances and Brackman are on the 40 man, the others are not, another reason I think Noesi is first in line all else being equal. There are a bunch of FA pitchers on the 40 man that I don't know much about (Schlitter, Turpen, Garrison, Fish, Pope), so presumably it wouldn't be too hard to make space if necessary.

[jon abbey]

2010 IP (not counting winter ball, from BR, not sure if these include postseason starts or not):

Noesi-160.1
Phelps-158.2
Brackman-140.2
Warren-135.1
Betances-85.1
Banuelos-64.2

[jon abbey]

Profiles of Noesi/Phelps:

http://bleacherrepor...-6-hector-noesi

http://bleacherrepor...-6-david-phelps

[Adirondack jack]

Banuelos had another 25 innings this past fall in AZ. game log

Saw three or four of the starts. I was impressed, he worked in 3 pitches, all potential plus pitches, with fairly good command (that...seemed to come and go though) and a nice fluid delivery. Hate to say it but he's definitely fun to watch, pulling for a trade personally. He might be a little bigger than the listed 5'10" 155 pounds, but not by much (weight wise im saying) he isn't very big. He's only made 3 AA starts so far so things would have to fall just right for him, I think, before he got anything but a very brief cup of coffee. Maybe he'll work out of the pen late this season but that's still a pretty optimistic forecast at this point. Unless Banuelos comes out and dominates, he'll most likely hit his inning cap before getting the call even when considering the state of the Yanks rotation. Given his age, size and light workloads to date, yet to top like a 110 IP (arm concerns?) the Yanks will be at least somewhat conservative with him.

Edited by Adirondack jack, 31 January 2011 - 03:48 AM.

[Wingack]

Fun article on Betances.

http://www.nypost.co...QHLH5pYCHhItBjP

Personally I like Nova. I think we saw some very good flashes from him last year, and as is common with young pitchers when he would would lose it he would lose it quickly. I would like to see him get a crack at the rotation. But there is MLB ability there, even if he does just end up a bullpen arm.

[terrynever]

Upon further review, I guess 2011 is a year to get Manny B's innings count up to around 150 in the minors. Half the season in Trenton, second half in Scranton. New York in 2012, if everything goes well.

[jon abbey]

Non-roster invites announced today:

Along with Nova, Noesi, Brackman and Betances (all on the 40 man), Phelps, Warren, Banuelos and DJ Mitchell all got invites.

Stoneburner, Brett Marshall and Jose Ramirez didn't, those three are all likely ticketed for A ball to start the season as I said above.

[jon abbey]

Brackman impressing people early on:

http://yankees.lhblo...st-live-hitters

[judyb]

With NY still refusing to commit to paying a veteran to compete with Mitre and Nova for the last two rotation spots, it's looking more and more like they are expecting (hoping) some of the prospects can contribute this year. Here's a general list to start, in my guess at the current pecking order to contribute this year.

Hector Noesi (24)
David Phelps (24)
Andrew Brackman (25)
Adam Warren (24)
Dellin Betances (23)
Manny Banuelos (20)

Brett Marshall, Graham Stoneburner and Jose Ramirez also all have rotation potential, but that would really be digging deep, all likely starting in A ball this year.

Innings limits should be checked for all of these guys, although I think NY wouldn't really care if they think they can do the best job for the first half of the season, giving Cashman more time for the next Haren to hopefully pop up.

Noesi, Betances and Brackman are on the 40 man, the others are not, another reason I think Noesi is first in line all else being equal. There are a bunch of FA pitchers on the 40 man that I don't know much about (Schlitter, Turpen, Garrison, Fish, Pope), so presumably it wouldn't be too hard to make space if necessary.

You probably already figured it out, but, just in case, Turpen and Fish are the 2 rule 5 guys.

[jon abbey]

Olney is tweeting that Banuelos/Betances will both be starting the year in AAA.

"Looks like the two most impressive Yankees' prospects -- Banuelos and Betances -- will be opening year in Class AAA."

I actually think he's wrong about this and he misunderstood what he was told and that it's really AA, but we'll see.

[jon abbey]

Heh, bingo:

"Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
Sorry -- my fault, I hit an extra 'A' there. Betances, Banuelos ticketed for Class AA Trenton. Start there, and could push way to bigs..."

[Wingack]

Nova definitely made a strong case yesterday for himself yesterday. I like him alot actually. People around here seem to like to take swipes at him by lumping him with Bartolo Colon and Sergio Mitre, but this kid can pitch and he showed that last year. A lot to like here.

[th@tkid]

my only problem with him is he was great the first two times around the order but got hit hard the third time.. or maybe it just seemed that way.. He may ultimately become a great long reliever fill in starter, but I am willing to see him get a shot at the rotation.

[jon abbey]

my only problem with him is he was great the first two times around the order but got hit hard the third time.. or maybe it just seemed that way.. He may ultimately become a great long reliever fill in starter, but I am willing to see him get a shot at the rotation.

People keep saying this, and there is some truth to it, but also Girardi had an extremely quick hook on him most of the time, he generally didn't let him get past 90 pitches or so. On the other hand, Girardi left him in against TB and he couldn't get out of the inning, so maybe it is accurate.

But yeah, I'm very happy with Nova, I just think ideally he'd be the #6 guy to start the year.

[Brianish]

There's also an argument that that just indicates a kid who's still learning different ways to get guys out.

Which, you know, he is.

[th@tkid]

Right and I think he is clearly the best option for one of those spots at this point.. And Girardi did have a quick hook with him almost annoyingly so (one of the Toronto game comes to mind) I just think in an ideal world were we have a complete starting rotation (maybe the killer B's next year, one can only hope) he is a swing man #6 starter.

[jon abbey]

Actually I think he might have had some kind of innings cap that was never made public last year, or at least they tried to keep them down a bit if they could, so that might have had something to do with the quick hooks also.

[Buckner's Boots]

I tuned in too late to catch Nova, but Betances looked strong yesterday (though not as amazing as Michael Kay made him sound...)

Seemed to locate his fastball really well for this early on, and he was hitting 97 on the gun. As much as I don't want these young guys from the Yankees to amount to anything, they appear to be the real thing. Looking forward to seeing Betances and Banuelos against the Sea Dogs this season.

[Trotsky]

Apologies that this isn't a "back of the rotation" question, but there isn't a topic yet in the Yankee Forum and I wasn't sure if it was thread-worthy, but all the questions I've read about the rotation are regarding either Burnett or the 4,5 spots. I'd like to hear what posters are realistically expecting out of Hughes. Is he really worthy of being considered a "no. 2"? Personally I don't think so, so that I'm expecting a deal to be made for a legit co-ace before the season starts. But beside that, what sort of numbers are people expecting from Hughes at this point?

[Doctor G]

Actually I think he might have had some kind of innings cap that was never made public last year, or at least they tried to keep them down a bit if they could, so that might have had something to do with the quick hooks also.

Nova had a +.900 OPS against on pitches 30-60 plus he was over 1.000 with runners in scoring position.
That was the primary reason for the quick hooks.

[jon abbey]

Nova had a +.900 OPS against on pitches 30-60 plus he was over 1.000 with runners in scoring position.
That was the primary reason for the quick hooks.

From these breakdowns:

http://www.baseball-...1&year=2010&t=p

It looks like the issue was more with pitches 51-75 than 30-60, but I think that part of the problem (from watching all of his games) was that Girardi had such a quick hook with him, so Nova tried to be too perfect and sometimes lost it.

[terrynever]

From these breakdowns:

http://www.baseball-...1&year=2010&t=p

It looks like the issue was more with pitches 51-75 than 30-60, but I think that part of the problem (from watching all of his games) was that Girardi had such a quick hook with him, so Nova tried to be too perfect and sometimes lost it.

Only the great ones come to the big leagues as the complete package. Nova is a work in progress but you certainly can look at this stuff, his size, his youth, and project him as a starting pitcher for the Yankees in the not too distant future. Maybe the most exciting thing about the Yankees right now is this wave of young pitchers moving through the farm system.

Of course, two years ago, we were looking at Ian Kennedy and Joba as the Yankees' answer to Lester and Buchholz. Kennedy didn't have the right stuff and location for the A.L. Joba looks like a solid bullpen option. Lester and Buchholz turned into front end of the rotation starters. Advantage, Boston.

I think it's important the Yankees get a couple prime starters out of this next crop of prospects. We're talking 2012 at the earliest. Nova, Banuelos, Betances, Brackman. Any two of those four will suffice.

Edited by terrynever, 28 February 2011 - 02:00 PM.

[terrynever]

Banuelos pitched the fourth inning today, got a first-pitch out on a ground ball, then got the next two hitters looking. seven pitches, seven strikes.

[deborafitz]

Banuelos pitched the fourth inning today, got a first-pitch out on a ground ball, then got the next two hitters looking. seven pitches, seven strikes.

mabrowndog pointed out that the pitch counts are not being tracked for spring training games (see red sox game thread) for this reason the pitchers stats are looking something like this:
Pitches-strikes: Sabathia 12-12, Feliciano, P 7-7, Banuelos 7-7, Prior 5-5, Turpen 19-7, Fish 8-8, Mitchell, D. 10-9, Verlander 17-9
(turpen walked 3 guys)

[terrynever]

mabrowndog pointed out that the pitch counts are not being tracked for spring training games (see red sox game thread) for this reason the pitchers stats are looking something like this:
Pitches-strikes: Sabathia 12-12, Feliciano, P 7-7, Banuelos 7-7, Prior 5-5, Turpen 19-7, Fish 8-8, Mitchell, D. 10-9, Verlander 17-9
(turpen walked 3 guys)

thanks. should have figured that out myself, especially after seeing the first two pitchers' lines in the boxscore.

[jon abbey]

Noesi with two more scoreless innings today, he's likely the 6th starter right now (Nova/Garcia ahead of him, Mitre the long guy).

[Wingack]

Mitre only went one inning again today. Looks to me like they aren't even bothering to stretch him out.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Garcia suck ass for a few turns in the rotation and we see Noesi up in May.

[Wingack]

Nova with three more scoreless innings today.

[TomRicardo]

Mitre only went one inning again today. Looks to me like they aren't even bothering to stretch him out.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Garcia suck ass for a few turns in the rotation and we see Noesi up in May.

Maybe you can help me here but I am not sure why you love Noesi so much. He is a two pitch pitcher with a solid PED history and one Tommy John down. I can't see anything that would suggest he is anything other than a back of the rotation starter/bullpen arm.

I wouldn't want a starter like Noesi anywhere near the Red Sox rotation.

[Wingack]

I am not sure he is anything more than a back of the rotation starter either but that is what we are looking at him as right now anyway. I love his command and that he can get his fastball into the mid 90s. Does he need to work on a breaking pitch? He sure does.

He doesn't have the ceiling of one of the Killer Bs or even a guy like Nova IMO. But I do think he will have major league career.

[TomRicardo]

I am not sure he is anything more than a back of the rotation starter either but that is what we are looking at him as right now anyway. I love his command and that he can get his fastball into the mid 90s. Does he need to work on a breaking pitch? He sure does.

He doesn't have the ceiling of one of the Killer Bs or even a guy like Nova IMO. But I do think he will have major league career.

In the AL East? The guy would get teed off on. I don't think Nova is anything more than inning eater either.

Edit - Nova is better than Noesi but Noesi's ceiling is a swing starter in AL.

Edited by TomRicardo, 03 March 2011 - 07:54 PM.

[Wingack]

In the AL East? The guy would get teed off on. I don't think Nova is anything more than inning eater either.

Edit - Nova is better than Noesi but Noesi's ceiling is a swing starter in AL.

Perhaps. But these are really depth guys and depth guys are good to have. As far as the longterm high ceiling arms the Yankees have Noesi is well down on the list. He may get clubbed around but I think he has the skills where he can help now even maybe just as trade bait.

[jon abbey]

No surprise, but Girardi says Brackman is out of the mix for the rotation:

http://twitter.com/#!/Ledger_Yankees/statuses/44893747292545024

Nova and Garcia still have to be the faves, Colon has looked OK and Mitre, Noesi, Phelps and Warren are maybe still lurking on the periphery with very outside shots (but the latter three will most likely start in AAA while Mitre is the long guy).

[Wingack]

What did everyone think of Brackman yesterday?

[terrynever]

What did everyone think of Brackman yesterday?

My pessimistic side says he throws a lot of pitches outside the strike zone. Daniel Cabrera comes to mind. My optimistic side says he could end up somewhere between Jon Rauch and that big pitcher from Princeton, Chris Young.

[jon abbey]

Ken Rosenthal reports:

"Diamondbacks GM Kevin Towers, who spent last season scouting with the Yankees, offers yet another ringing endorsement for the Yanks’ top pitching prospects – and actually likes right-hander Dellin Betances even better than lefty Manny Banuelos. Betances, 6-foot-8 and 245 pounds, “might be King Felix," Towers says. Banuelos? “Teddy Higuera in his prime,” Towers says, “but with a better arm.”"

http://mlbbuzz.yardb...raining/4404453

[Rudy's Curve]

The Betances quote makes Gammons' comparisons look rational. He might be King Felix. So might I.

[jon abbey]

It's not like King Felix already had over 600 IP in the majors when he was Betances' age. Oh, wait.

[Rudy's Curve]

It's not like King Felix already had over 600 IP in the majors when he was Betances' age. Oh, wait.

That's the entire point. Saying a prospect might be Felix Hernandez when he's still in the minors at the age Felix started to dominate Major League hitters is beyond hyperbole. How are the two even similar, besides being right-handed and throwing hard?

[Phranchise]

Ken Rosenthal reports:

"Diamondbacks GM Kevin Towers, who spent last season scouting with the Yankees, offers yet another ringing endorsement for the Yanks' top pitching prospects – and actually likes right-hander Dellin Betances even better than lefty Manny Banuelos. Betances, 6-foot-8 and 245 pounds, "might be King Felix," Towers says. Banuelos? "Teddy Higuera in his prime," Towers says, "but with a better arm.""

http://mlbbuzz.yardb...raining/4404453

Great, now let's trade Betances in a package for Justin Upton.

[jon abbey]

That's the entire point. Saying a prospect might be Felix Hernandez when he's still in the minors at the age Felix started to dominate Major League hitters is beyond hyperbole. How are the two even similar, besides being right-handed and throwing hard?

Yeah, I was agreeing with you.

[jon abbey]

Updating this as the minor league season starts in a few days:

Scranton/AAA rotation: David Phelps, Hector Noesi, Adam Warren, D.J. Mitchell and Andrew Brackman, in that order.

Trenton/AA rotation: Manny Banuelos, Dellin Betances, Graham Stoneburner, Shaeffer Hall and Steve Garrison, not necessarily in that order.

[jon abbey]

Nice performance from Adam Warren in AAA last night: 8 IP, 5 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 3 K, 10-6 GB/FB – 55 of 93 pitches were strikes (59.1%)

[Worst Trade Evah]

It's a nice box-score and I'm sure he's a solid pitcher, but I would guess he mostly had good luck there. 3 Ks in 8 innings against AAA hitters doesnt seem sustainable. Is he Wang reincarnated?

[Wingack]

It's a nice box-score and I'm sure he's a solid pitcher, but I would guess he mostly had good luck there. 3 Ks in 8 innings against AAA hitters doesnt seem sustainable. Is he Wang reincarnated?

Could have just been that game. Last year in AA he struck out more than a batter an inning, 59 guys in 54 innings.

http://www.baseball-...id=warren001ada

I don't know if he has a future in the bigs, but he is an intriguing piece.

[LMontro]

Is Ivan Cone still in the rotation?

[jon abbey]

Heh, yep, he got bumped a bit because of all the offdays and rainouts (NY only played 4 games this past week). He will go on Tuesday against the White Sox, and he'll presumably be pitching for his spot in the rotation, because Millwood's opt-out is in about a week.

If he continues to be bad, I'd guess he'll go to AAA temporarily, and if he pitches well, NY will have a tough decision to make (Colon back to the long guy?).

[rembrat]

Oh god, I forgot about Millwood. The way things have been breaking for the Yankees, Millwood is going to come up spinning gems.

[EvilEmpire]

I don't know for how long Colon and Garcia can sustain success, but beyond what it is doing for the team right now, I'm glad that Cashman can be looking for a SP trade target without that aura of desperation clinging quite so tightly.

[terrynever]

Brackman got thru 6 innings yesterday against Syracuse, 5 hits, 2 runs, 3 bb, 3 K. The Scranton writer says he also threw five pitches than ended up hitting the backstop. Not often you see a pitcher compared to Ricky Vaughn but that was yesterday's blog analogy from the Scranton writer.

Also, Montero took a foul ball right off his protective cup, was helped off the field and is out of the lineup today with a pair of throbbing testicles. That's baseball, Suzyn.