373 replies to this topic

[wutang112878]

From http://www.sportscit...m/NFL-Salaries/ (I have no idea if these numbers are accurate).

I dont have a reliable source to point to, as far as I know there really isnt a great cap source for all teams, although Miguels Patscap page is probably the best you will find for any team. But these #s are off because they just include salary and dont include include other cap hits like signing bonuses, released players signing bonuses and workout bonuses, etc.

[cgori]

I didn't see it referred to elsewhere in the BBTL forum, but Peter King reported yesterday on some analysis of Special Teams play by Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News. Gosselin had the Pats ranked #1 overall in the league, in part because of Zoltan (only 25 of 58 punts returned), complemented by a strong return game. Article was here: http://sportsillustr.../13/mmqb/3.html

• The Patriots won, thanks to a strong rookie season from punter Zoltan Mesko, excellent coverage units and the job done by the first-year special-teams coach Scott O'Brien, clearly one of the best in the business. The Pats edged the hard-charging Titans for the top spot, with Tennessee riding rookie returner Marc Mariani's two touchdowns and 1,859 return yards to respectability.

Here are the NFL's 10 best special-team units in 2010, according to Gosselin's rankings (points in parentheses):
1. New England (269)
2. Tennessee (274)
3. Cleveland (277)
T-4. Chicago (280)
T-4. Oakland (280)
T-4. Seattle (280)
7. New York Jets (294)
8. Baltimore (311)
9. Pittsburgh (314)
10. Atlanta (318.5)

The original article in Dallas is sub-only:
http://www.dallasnew...owboys-20th.ece

edit: added link to original article

Edited by cgori, 15 February 2011 - 01:08 PM.

[pappymojo]

I didn't see it referred to elsewhere in the BBTL forum, but Peter King reported yesterday on some analysis of Special Teams play by Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News. Gosselin had the Pats ranked #1 overall in the league, in part because of Zoltan (only 25 of 58 punts returned), complemented by a strong return game. Article was here: http://sportsillustr.../13/mmqb/3.html

Were the Chargers the worst?

[tims4wins]

Were the Chargers the worst?

Yup.

[Rough Carrigan]

Were the Chargers the worst?

You've got a lot of Norv jumping to conclusions like that!

[dcdrew10]

Gosselin had the Pats ranked #1 overall in the league, in part because of Zoltan (only 25 of 58 punts returned)

That is pretty impressive to me, the layman (the only thing I know about punting is that after fielding one punt in HS and getting blown up I never wanted to be on the field during a punt again). It is quite nice going from the Ken Walter/Chris Hanson cluster f's of the last few years to the Space Emperor of Space.

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Ravens applied the franchise tag to Ngata. It was always just a pipe dream, but it's sad to not see him on the open market.

[Mystic Merlin]

Start praying for Suggs.

[SoxScout]

FOXBORO, Mass. -- Patriots cornerback Devin McCourty played through a fractured rib at the end of the season, which makes his rookie campaign appear even more impressive.

McCourty hurt his rib during the second quarter of New England's Week 14 victory in Chicago. After forcing a Johnny Knox fumble -- the fourth consecutive game in which he forced a turnover -- McCourty landed awkwardly on the frozen turf and cracked the rib. He briefly returned to the game but sat out the entire second half against the Bears.

http://www.nesn.com/...in-week-14.html

[H78]

God do I fucking love McCourty.

[JerBear]

Tamba Hali gets tagged, take him off your wishlists. Maybe we need a Tagged! thread.

http://profootballta...-franchise-tag/

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Marcus Stroud was cut by Buffalo. He didn't play that well last year (although Alternative may be able to expound on this,) but--particularly with the uncertainty the Patriots currently have at the position--he may be worth taking a look at.

[Mystic Merlin]

Given the uncertainty the Patriots currently have at the position...they should look to acquire a guy with a more uncertain future than nearly all the players on the current roster?

No thanks. I'll go with Cullen Jenkins or a high draft pick. They need prime talent, not washed up Pro Bowlers.

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Given the uncertainty the Patriots currently have at the position...they should look to acquire a guy with a more uncertain future than nearly all the players on the current roster?

No thanks. I'll go with Cullen Jenkins or a high draft pick. They need prime talent, not washed up Pro Bowlers.

Of course I'd like the best 3-4 DE in free agency. I think that would be fantastic. I'd also like Suggs, Arian Foster and Lamarr Woodley. If Woodley gets franchised, get Peyton Manning and run a 2 QB system.

If reality sets in and the Patriots do what they almost always do, I think we'll see the old retreads like Stroud. I'd also be cool with them bringing in another washed up Pro Bowler, Shaun Ellis.

It's cool to live in fantasy land. That's what the off-season and trade deadlines are for. But spending a high draft pick on a DE isn't anymore certain than bringing in "washed up Pro Bowlers" like Stroud or Ellis. Ron Brace was drafted 40th, would drafting a DE at 33rd be so much more certain? At the end of the day, we have one of the better 3-4 gap DE's coming back from the IR next year (Warren). That leaves 1 spot for Brace, Pryor, Love, Wright, Gerard Warren (if they resign him) to fight it out for. Each one of them showed flashes throughout the season. Are any of them inspiring? No. But Stroud or Ellis *could* provide better production for 1/4 the price of an injury prone Cullen Jenkins. The Patriots have money to burn, but they should burn it where it's needed (OLB, OL, new contracts for Mankins/Light/Welker, WR, draft picks) not where it's a luxury.

If they draft a DE, I'm ok with that (As long as they get an OLB and OL first). Bringing in a guy like Stroud to help hedge our bets isn't an awful idea either.

[Mystic Merlin]

Of course I'd like the best 3-4 DE in free agency. I think that would be fantastic. I'd also like Suggs, Arian Foster and Lamarr Woodley. If Woodley gets franchised, get Peyton Manning and run a 2 QB system.

If reality sets in and the Patriots do what they almost always do, I think we'll see the old retreads like Stroud. I'd also be cool with them bringing in another washed up Pro Bowler, Shaun Ellis.

It's cool to live in fantasy land. That's what the off-season and trade deadlines are for. But spending a high draft pick on a DE isn't anymore certain than bringing in "washed up Pro Bowlers" like Stroud or Ellis. Ron Brace was drafted 40th, would drafting a DE at 33rd be so much more certain? At the end of the day, we have one of the better 3-4 gap DE's coming back from the IR next year (Warren). That leaves 1 spot for Brace, Pryor, Love, Wright, Gerard Warren (if they resign him) to fight it out for. Each one of them showed flashes throughout the season. Are any of them inspiring? No. But Stroud or Ellis *could* provide better production for 1/4 the price of an injury prone Cullen Jenkins. The Patriots have money to burn, but they should burn it where it's needed (OLB, OL, new contracts for Mankins/Light/Welker, WR, draft picks) not where it's a luxury.

If they draft a DE, I'm ok with that (As long as they get an OLB and OL first). Bringing in a guy like Stroud to help hedge our bets isn't an awful idea either.

I'm not living in fantasy land, I'm emphasizing that they need to get better talent across the board up front. Marcus Stroud isn't getting that done. Your mention of Ellis is odd, since he's a markedly better player than Stroud. I'd be more than happy with him coming aboard, though it won't happen.

And I think you're the one living in fantasy land if you see WR as a bigger 'need' than DL. Wilfork is flanked by rotational players right now; another one isn't going to help. The Pats need to burn money on defenders, or potentially an OL, and I don't care if it's at OLB or DE, but the front seven has to improve. If you think rolling the dice with Stroud (and your Ellis mention is cheap, since he'd be more expensive than you seem to think, as well as the better player) is a better option than aggressively pursuing an impact DL like Cullen Jenkins (yes, he gets hurt a lot, but, like, so doesn't Stroud, who isn't even that good anymore), then I don't know what to say. The Pats need impact talent on defense, not depth.

EDIT - You have a bizarre faith in Warren bouncing back just fine, too, despite hurting his hip, a notoriously debilitating injury. I'm not so terribly sold on the front-line talent at DE.

Edited by Mystic Merlin, 16 February 2011 - 10:13 PM.

[wutang112878]

I'll go with Cullen Jenkins or a high draft pick. They need prime talent, not washed up Pro Bowlers.

The only issue with drafting a DL is that the first year is generally a lengthy learning process unless you can get a truly elite DL. I remember Ty Warren's rookie year where he struggled, couldnt shed blocks and a lot of folks thought he might be a flop. I want us to draft a DL with one of our first 3 picks, but I think its asking too much for the player have quality production his rookie year.

[Shelterdog]

The only issue with drafting a DL is that the first year is generally a lengthy learning process unless you can get a truly elite DL. I remember Ty Warren's rookie year where he struggled, couldnt shed blocks and a lot of folks thought he might be a flop. I want us to draft a DL with one of our first 3 picks, but I think its asking too much for the player have quality production his rookie year.

Agreed. You've got to draft the Ty Warren replacement this year or next year (unless Deaderick or someone is going to turn into that guy and I'm not counting on it), but unless you trade up to get Dareus it's pretty unlikely that the player is a great contributor in 2011.

(Anyone who thought he was a flop was an idiot though; getting crazy about a rookie's play is just not smart).

Even with all the high picks, improving the team is going to be harder than people seem to think; for a pick to make the team better the rookies have to be ready, in 2011, to displace guys like Connolly, Kaczur, Tate, Brace, Ninkovich, and TBC. The Patriots aren't the Colts with great players and garbage; they're not the Jets with six starters becoming free agents. They're a team with a few awesome players and an awful lot of pretty average guys; and average is much harder to improve than garbage or a free agent departure.

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

The only issue with drafting a DL is that the first year is generally a lengthy learning process unless you can get a truly elite DL. I remember Ty Warren's rookie year where he struggled, couldnt shed blocks and a lot of folks thought he might be a flop. I want us to draft a DL with one of our first 3 picks, but I think its asking too much for the player have quality production his rookie year.

I am curious if this still holds as much weight today with more college programs giving 3-4 looks. As far as I know Ty Warren came from an even look at A&M, so would a player with some experience in an odd front (like Cameron Jordan, I believe they use some 3-4 at Cal) have as steep of a curve to climb? Obviously the Pats 3-4 and the 3-4 look used at any college program is going to have vast differences, but some of the techniques must apply.

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I'm not living in fantasy land, I'm emphasizing that they need to get better talent across the board up front. Marcus Stroud isn't getting that done. Your mention of Ellis is odd, since he's a markedly better player than Stroud. I'd be more than happy with him coming aboard, though it won't happen.

And I think you're the one living in fantasy land if you see WR as a bigger 'need' than DL. Wilfork is flanked by rotational players right now; another one isn't going to help. The Pats need to burn money on defenders, or potentially an OL, and I don't care if it's at OLB or DE, but the front seven has to improve. If you think rolling the dice with Stroud (and your Ellis mention is cheap, since he'd be more expensive than you seem to think, as well as the better player) is a better option than aggressively pursuing an impact DL like Cullen Jenkins (yes, he gets hurt a lot, but, like, so doesn't Stroud, who isn't even that good anymore), then I don't know what to say. The Pats need impact talent on defense, not depth.

EDIT - You have a bizarre faith in Warren bouncing back just fine, too, despite hurting his hip, a notoriously debilitating injury. I'm not so terribly sold on the front-line talent at DE.

All fair points.Ellis is definitely a better play then Stroud,and it was probably unfair for me to lump him into the Marcus Stroud category. I don't think he'll be as expensive as you do (probably somewhere in between someone like Stroud and someone like Jenkins), but that's a different topic entirely.

Still, Gerard Warren was a very cheap option and played admirably for stretches last year. Considering he never lived up to the hype, nor was he ever as good of a player as Stroud, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to think that Stroud could reinvent himself playing for a significantly better coach with better talent around him.

With that said--after sleeping on it for the night--you're probably right. He wasn't in much different of a situation in Buffalo (flanked by a pro bowl NT and then a bunch of rotataional guys; decent inside linebackers and no outside rush) and, despite his size for the 3-4 system, played pretty poorly trying to implement it for the first time in his career.

As far as WR being a bigger "need" than DE...again, I was probably grasping at straws. Truth be told, I'm not sure why I defended Marcus Stroud other then he seems the type of low cost/medium-low impact guy BB brings in off the streets. The Patriots are going to need some help at WR, but not anymore then they need help on the front seven. All in all, a pretty poor performance in my last post. Mea Culpa.

Edited by Kenny F'ing Powers, 17 February 2011 - 09:30 AM.

[SoxScout]

Another surgery:

Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez recently underwent surgery on his hip, according to this story in the Hartford Courant. On Sunday, Hernandez showed up at a skills camp organized by his brother D.J., a high school football coach in Southington, Conn. on crutches, and apparently told campers the crutches were because of hip surgery. The Florida product, who had 45 catches for 563 yards and six touchdowns his rookie season with New England, was on the injury report with a right hip problem several times throughout the season, but still finished the year as one of the leading receivers on the team.

http://www.weei.com/...has-hip-surgery

[chester]

They're a team with a few awesome players and an awful lot of pretty average guys; and average is much harder to improve than garbage or a free agent departure.

Especially with their system that takes time to learn not to mention the adjustments to the NFL. That is why re-signing Mankins is oh so very important.

What player/position would likely give the Pats the most immediate impact from drafting? That is pretty hard to tell. Id say probably an O-lineman, like Pouncey, who would symbolize the "re-building" of the offensive line. Now, Im sure everyone would love to draft a guy that can immediately hit the QB on the regular but as you point out finding someone to do this is pretty hard because they need to be an elite talent and the Pats don't hold a top 5 pick. So if the Pats are looking for the pass rusher through the draft do you think they consolidate their picks or do they take a couple guys like Jordan and Heyward and play the odds.

Each option has its pros and cons, and I think a lot will have to do with whether there is a rookie slotting in place by the time of the draft. If available I could see Belichick go after Von Miller and hedging with a free agent.

Edited by chester, 21 February 2011 - 07:34 AM.

[wutang112878]

What player/position would likely give the Pats the most immediate impact from drafting?

I agree O-line is probably the easiest place to make an impact especially considering we only have 2 of our starting lineman signed for next year. But here is a real out of the box idea, what about moving up from 17 to the 8-10 range and get an Amukamara or Jimmy Smith? Peterson will most likely be gone in the top 5, no chance at him. But if our CBs were McCourty, one of these 2, and Bodden [assuming he was healthy] I think Bill could take some more chances and blitz more often, thus lessening the need to acquire a pure pass rusher.

Each option has its pros and cons, and I think a lot will have to do with whether there is a rookie slotting in place by the time of the draft. If available I could see Belichick go after Von Miller and hedging with a free agent.

I dont see us getting Von Miller who seems destined to go in the top 5, that would probably be the most aggressive move up in Bills draft history, even with rookie salary slotting I doubt it happens unless he thinks Miller is the next Lawrence Taylor.

[RedOctober3829]

Chad Greenway was tagged by the Vikings. That means Ray Edwards and Sidney Rice are in play as free agents.

[RGREELEY33]

Deangelo Williams will be available now. Cant see BB paying for a RB, but I get a tingle in my pants thinking about a Deangelo/Woodhead/BJGE backfield.

[jsinger121]

Panthers DE Charles Johnson (11.5 sacks in 2010) is now going to be a free agent since he wasn't tagged. At 6'2 275 wonder if he could make a conversion to OLB.

[Shelterdog]

Especially with their system that takes time to learn not to mention the adjustments to the NFL. That is why re-signing Mankins is oh so very important.

What player/position would likely give the Pats the most immediate impact from drafting? That is pretty hard to tell. Id say probably an O-lineman, like Pouncey, who would symbolize the "re-building" of the offensive line. Now, Im sure everyone would love to draft a guy that can immediately hit the QB on the regular but as you point out finding someone to do this is pretty hard because they need to be an elite talent and the Pats don't hold a top 5 pick. So if the Pats are looking for the pass rusher through the draft do you think they consolidate their picks or do they take a couple guys like Jordan and Heyward and play the odds.

Mark Ingram's probably your best bet to make an immediate impact; runing backs can often make an impact quickly and he's good enough in the passing game that Ingram should at worst be your 1B player at both RB and third down/Woodhead back. Even if he fails to beat out BJGE or Woodhead he'd still get quite a few touches over the course of a season, and I think he's good enough that he could take the starting job.

Now if you add a bunch of M. Wilkerson/M. Pouncey/J. Houston guys who don't really look like immediate starters you could still be almost certain that between somebody really breaking out and injuries a few of those players would in fact become real contributors their rookie years, just like Vollmer did.

[d.ro.ho]

Rapoport is reporting that the Patriots have asked Kaczur to take a pay cut and he refused:

A source close to the situation told me that the Pats approached the seven-year veteran about taking a massive pay-cut based on his impending salary of $3.4 million for 2011. That is not something Kaczur is prepared to do. When I asked if the Patriots would cut Kaczur rather than pay him all that money, I was told, "They're going to have to." Perhaps that comes before March 3, though not necessarily.

[QUNate]

The Patriots tendered contracts to BenJarvus Green-Ellis and Jarrad Page, both of whom were restricted free agents. Kyle Arrington was also tendered a contract as an exclusive rights free agent. Quinn Ojinnaka was not tendered a contract.

[Clears Cleaver]

http://sports.yahoo....?urn=nfl-330750

[jsinger121]

He looks like a European soccer player.

[Old Fart Tree]

At this point I think he's just taunting us.

[BigSoxFan]

He looks like a European soccer player.

He looks like Sasha Vujacic. Gross.

[CaptainLaddie]

He still has those eyes, though....

[j44thor]

Sweet ponytail Tom, at least it is doubtful we find him on dancing with the stars anytime soon.

[Ed Hillel]

W...T...F:

[mascho]

Um, who cares? He's at freakin' Carnival with his supermodel wife who, in some of the other videos from TC Caras, is all over him. He's having the time of his life and, lest we forget, is coming off a season where he was the unanimous selection for the NFL MVP. He can dye his ponytail pink for all I care as long as he keeps having MVP caliber seasons.

[ColonelMustard]

Um, who cares? He's at freakin' Carnival with his supermodel wife who, in some of the other videos from TC Caras, is all over him. He's having the time of his life and, lest we forget, is coming off a season where he was the unanimous selection for the NFL MVP. He can dye his ponytail pink for all I care as long as he keeps having MVP caliber seasons.

Agreed. I like the hair. But that dancing...

[Ed Hillel]

Um, who cares? He's at freakin' Carnival with his supermodel wife who, in some of the other videos from TC Caras, is all over him. He's having the time of his life and, lest we forget, is coming off a season where he was the unanimous selection for the NFL MVP. He can dye his ponytail pink for all I care as long as he keeps having MVP caliber seasons.

Did you see the dancing?

[amarshal2]

Did you see the dancing?

Can you imagine if we had hidden camera on people in this forum when they hit the dance floor?

[mascho]

Did you see the dancing?

Yeah, I saw the dancing. He's also coming off foot surgery. But again, until he's on Dancing With the Stars I won't worry about how well he dances. The only thing he needs to do on his feet is buy a bit more time in the pocket, which he does a pretty decent job of.

EDIT: And a final thought. If he was caught on video dancing really well, showing off some great dance moves and really breaking it down, people would be pissed that he's risking a re-injury to his surgically repaired foot.

Edited by mascho, 08 March 2011 - 11:44 AM.

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

Clearly he does not care as much about football as he used

[simplyeric]

Yeah, I saw the dancing. He's also coming off foot surgery. But again, until he's on Dancing With the Stars I won't worry about how well he dances. The only thing he needs to do on his feet is buy a bit more time in the pocket, which he does a pretty decent job of.

EDIT: And a final thought. If he was caught on video dancing really well, showing off some great dance moves and really breaking it down, people would be pissed that he's risking a re-injury to his surgically repaired foot.

He needs to learn how to do the detonator.

I'll admit that I think he looks terrible. And this is coming from a guy who used to have hair like that...until I finally saw a picture of me with that ugly mop. But, hey, his chick digs it, so who am I to judge? I'd rather he have bad hair than a bad gut. Hopefully he didn't corner any Brasilian teens in a bathroom, or go to a bootleg cockfight, or refuse patrimony payments to his first child, or "win" with Charlie Sheen, etc. etc.

I mean, most of the time - and this includes naps - Tom Brady is an F-18, bro....

[mandro ramtinez]

Seriously, Carnival is one of the most oustanding parties on earth. I hope he thoroughly enjoys himself, dances and wears his hair any way he chooses. The only feeling I have towards Brady is jealousy because I wish I was in Rio at Carnival instead of in Boston at work.

[bakahump]

Overreaction warning:

Isn't Carnival quite dangerous? Like Mexico on a saturday night dangerous.

I just hope he and the wife are taking precautions (which I am sure they are). I mean its not like bad dudes would want to kidnap a supermodel and the NFL MVP (or even worse.. Lindburgh their baby).

I still get a little nervous thinking about "the Franchise" being in anything other then a Safe Deposit box within the Pentagon Basement.

[mascho]

Well, as we know they roll with an armed security team.

[Ed Hillel]

Geez, some really sensitive people here. Can you imagine if a video like this of Manning surfaced? I wasn't making any value judgments on anything related to his football skills/motivation or anything like that. It's just that he looks like a greasy Euortrash futbol player or Los Angeles Laker, dances like a girl, and wears Uggs. Now don't get me wrong, I am still unconditionally gay for him, but I mean, come on...

[Jettisoned]

I like Tom Brady and all but if someone sacks him and does that dance I'm going to laugh my ass off.

[Mystic Merlin]

Overreaction warning:

Isn't Carnival quite dangerous? Like Mexico on a saturday night dangerous.

I just hope he and the wife are taking precautions (which I am sure they are). I mean its not like bad dudes would want to kidnap a supermodel and the NFL MVP (or even worse.. Lindburgh their baby).

I still get a little nervous thinking about "the Franchise" being in anything other then a Safe Deposit box within the Pentagon Basement.

Old white people really do think Latin America is one giant gang/drug compound.

[Vinho Tinto]

Old white people really do think Latin America is one giant gang/drug compound.

Brady was safe and secured because of who his wife is and his own fame; but your comment is BS. It's getting better, but cities like Rio and Sao Paulo have had high murder rates for decades. You can't make me believe you'd prepare for a trip to Brazil just like you were going over to a confined Caribbean resort. A regular person, who isn't married to Brazil's most famous supermodel, would be very wise to take precaution when going out at night.

[Shelterdog]

Old white people really do think Latin America is one giant gang/drug compound.

It's like City of God, I shit you not. Just watching that video I broke into a cold sweat: are the parading dancing girls going to mug our 6-5 230 pound quarterback?