373 replies to this topic

[SeoulSoxFan]

This was a sudden and unexpected end to the 2010 Patriots season. So what happens now? Who stays and who goes?

And the biggest question -- what else does BB & Co. have to do to go further in the PO?

Edited by SeoulSoxFan, 16 January 2011 - 09:16 PM.

[soxin6]

They need to be able to get pressure on the QB and that has been a problem for more than just this year.

[Jungleland]

Trade up and take the best pass rusher available. Hope Bodden comes back strong. Replace Brandon Tate. Sign Mankins and draft an offensive line. Pass rush pass rush pass rush. It's frustratingly obvious that that's what this team needs.

[SeoulSoxFan]

The smoke and mirror show was partly due to the high turnover+ rate, which some said wont' happen in the playoffs.

But hear this Jets fans, Pats have the youngest starting lineup in the league, most picks in the coming draft and no albatross contracts to speak of.

Out of the darkness that's today's loss, this team looks as well setup for years to come.

[Mystic Merlin]

Trade up and take the best pass rusher available. Hope Bodden comes back strong. Replace Brandon Tate. Sign Mankins and draft an offensive line. Pass rush pass rush pass rush. It's frustratingly obvious that that's what this team needs.

Like Sergio Kindle? Or Aaron Maybin? Pass rushers are quite the inexact science, and it's probably wiser to pursue one in FA or go with Cunningham.

Also, 'draft an offensive line'? Look, they need to address their depth, but they have one of the best O-Lines in football. They can certainly upgrade from Connolly, but I'm sure as hell not looking to revamp the unit (unless I am misunderstanding you).

The team, basically, needs to have their young guys grow up and hit some more in the draft. They have some cap room, too, but who knows what kind of options they'll have.

[Maalox]

This was a sudden and unexpected end to the 2010 Patriots season.

Maybe I'm alone but this was actually fairly close to what I expected.

And the biggest question -- what else does BB & Co. have to do to go further in the PO?

Well, Job One obviously is ordering 12 gross of sanitary napkins.

[Fishercat]

A. They need to add some fresh blood to the offensive line. Mankins is likely gone, Light's getting up there in age, and Koppen struggles with good NTs. That doesn't mean they are replaced, but the revolving door of middling 5th round guards is a weakness at times and I think they need to address that. Vollmer was a great pick and they need to find someone else like him.

B. I am not sure whether it'll be through a scheme change or personnel change, but they desperately need a high level pass rusher, a Suggs type game changer (ideally without the Suggs attitude). I know they want pass coverage in their OLBs, but our best pressure men have been UDFAs and Tully Banta Cain. I think Cunningham is a step in the right direction but he seems to be to be one of those occasional pressure guys. I know Belichick loves versatility but some specialists aren't a bad thing.

C. The D-Line needs revamping. Wilfork will be a great centerpiece for years, and getting Warren back will help. However, runningbacks have been getting through the front line all year and forcing Mayo/Spikes to pick up tackles, and there has been almost invisible pass rush from the spots. A 3-4 line doesn't get pass rush from the D-Line, but just a little would be nice. Wright has shown he can do it (as did Jarvis Green and Erik Moore), but Wright can't handle light right now either. The unspoken issue in this most recent playoff loss was that every drive seemed to begin on 2nd and 5 and an admirable performance by the secondary (except on the Cotchery catch) can't make up for a first down on a four yard slant.

D. I hope Taylor Price will be it, and Branch helped, but the Patriots seemed to lack that possession outside WR that can do a little of everything. The Jets (and even the Browns) were able to shut down the middle because Revis and Cromartie were able to eliminate any outside threat. We don't need a Moss deep threat, but we do need a WR who can beat a great CB one on one occasionally. I don't expect anyone to beat Revis: Reggie Wayne couldn't, but Cromartie is beatable. I'm thinking a Garcon type wideout. Tate could be, but I don't think he will be.

I'm trying to not take too much from one game. The Jets simply played better, and if the Pats played as they did normally, I think they would have been a lot closer. I think they're in great shape too, but I think those four places are where they can improve. The DBs are pretty thin too but Arrington-Bodden-McCourty is a very solid Top 3.

[soxfan80000001]

This was a sudden and unexpected end to the 2010 Patriots season. So what happens now? Who stays and who goes?

And the biggest question -- what else does BB & Co. have to do to go further in the PO?

Listen asshole, it's not offseason until I'm done being drunk. Premature thread.

[SeoulSoxFan]

Listen asshole, it's not offseason until I'm done being drunk. Premature thread.

Bizarro Cromartie, is that you?

[ilol@u]

We need a pass rushing LB. Cunningham was a major dissapointment this year (granted it was his rookie season but I'm pissed). 1 sack doesn't get the job done.
Hopefully draft a good nickle corner with Bodden coming back.. The whole "undersized shifty corner" isn't getting the job done in this defense. See Ellis Hobbs/Butler/Arrington getting burned time and time again is really frustrating.

Fuck Brandon Tate. All I heard coming into this season was how impressive he looked in training-camp and how he would be the next great wide reciever tandem with Brady. He started off amazing on kickoffs, but was pathetic since week 6. He is Bethel Johnson v2.0, runs fast but doesn't have the hands or the route running ability. Give McCourtey KR duties. The Jets clogged up the middle because they had no respect for any attempt for the deep ball. So mabye a playmaking WR? Randy Moss, Vincent Jackson, Terrell Owens, Malcolm Floyd are all possible FA's. Or mabye trade up and draft AJ Green/Julio Jones?

[King Gimp]

or...we can just admit that BB is a pompus asshole...

[kenneycb]

Brandon Tate cost the Patriots the game singlehandedly. Him and him alone. He sucks. They should release him. He is worthless at every aspect of the game. His 2 KR TDs were a product of pure luck. What a bum.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush.

Do something about it. Christ.

[Clears Cleaver]

Maybe someone needs to get a divorce. Tom Brady has not won a playoff game since he began dating Gisele. 0-3 and 3-4 in his last 7 playoff games

[kelpapa]

What does that have to do with coaching a football team?

[Mystic Merlin]

Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush.

Do something about it. Christ.

Signed,

Like almost every other NFL team.


Pass rushers are incredibly tough to find, and unless the Pats somehow snag Terrell Suggs or Lamarr Woodley, the Pats will have to settle for a few lotto tickets in the draft.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Signed,

Like almost every other NFL team.


Pass rushers are incredibly tough to find, and unless the Pats somehow snag Terrell Suggs or Lamarr Woodley, the Pats will have to settle for a few lotto tickets in the draft.

I honestly, truly, don't give a flying fuck what it costs them. They need to address their total lack of pass rush and they need to do it ASA Fucking P.

Get someone who can pressure the QB. My God, did they even knock down Sanchez once today?

[mascho]

I honestly, truly, don't give a flying fuck what it costs them. They need to address their total lack of pass rush and they need to do it ASA Fucking P.

Get someone who can pressure the QB. My God, did they even knock down Sanchez once today?

Knocked him down once, and it knocked Ninkovich out of the game.

Yeah, I think a pass rusher is Priority One.

[Sportsbstn]

You can use pick 1,2 and 3 on a pass rusher. They had ZERO pressure on Sanchez all game, it was really bad. Use the picks and really bolster the D line...and dammit I mean use the picks this year, especially the first 4, there is highly likely to be a rookie cap.

[scottyno]

I honestly, truly, don't give a flying fuck what it costs them. They need to address their total lack of pass rush and they need to do it ASA Fucking P.

Get someone who can pressure the QB. My God, did they even knock down Sanchez once today?

did they knock him down on either of the 2 plays where tomlinson lined up at QB, if not they should have

[Rico Guapo]

- Get rid of Bill O'Brien
- Draft/sign a pass rusher
- Draft/sign interior OL

Edited by Rico Guapo, 16 January 2011 - 08:43 PM.

[shawnrbu]

Maybe someone needs to get a divorce. Tom Brady has not won a playoff game since he began dating Gisele. 0-3 and 3-4 in his last 7 playoff games

He was dating her during the 06 playoffs.

Edited by shawnrbu, 16 January 2011 - 08:43 PM.

[SeoulSoxFan]

You can use pick 1,2 and 3 on a pass rusher. They had ZERO pressure on Sanchez all game, it was really bad. Use the picks and really bolster the D line...and dammit I mean use the picks this year, especially the first 4, there is highly likely to be a rookie cap.

Well, spending all three picks is obviously silly.

Pick 1: OL - must protect Brady more than rush the opposition QB
Pick 2: DE - rush, depth, whatever
Pick 3: DE/LB - same as above + depth

WEEI has a stat where out of 50+ teams with 13 wins or more, Pats are one of 3 that had a minus net yardage (yards gained vs yards given up).

Offense, even with weapons disappearing, is still great. Defense will grow up, but needs more ammo.

[jsinger121]

1. Pass Rushing OLB
2. Resign Mankins
3. 3-4 DE
4. OL especially a T and very likely a center as well. Koppen struggles against bigger players
5. DB maybe look to get rid of the overrated Brandon Meriweather and get a safety
6. RB

Edited by jsinger121, 16 January 2011 - 08:44 PM.

[SeoulSoxFan]

- Get rid of Bill O'Brien

Getting rid of BoB is beyond stupid. This was a historically good offense. This must be the same group that called for McDaniel's head, and now wishes Pats had him back.

BoB is not the problem on this team, not even by a nose.

[shawnrbu]

Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush.

Do something about it. Christ.

Clay Matthews was sitting right there 1 1/2 years ago. Very frustrating to not see that kind of talent.

[Mystic Merlin]

You can use pick 1,2 and 3 on a pass rusher. They had ZERO pressure on Sanchez all game, it was really bad. Use the picks and really bolster the D line...and dammit I mean use the picks this year, especially the first 4, there is highly likely to be a rookie cap.

Right, but you had better hit on the pick, because pass rushers wash out at a rate rivaling that of wide receivers. Check out the last 2-3 drafts, for example:

2010 -
13: Brandon Graham
15: Jason Pierre-Paul
16: Derrick Morgan
31: Jerry Hughes
43: Sergio Kindle
52: Jason Woirlds
53: Jermaine Cunningham
54: Carlos Dunlap

2009 -
11: Aaron Maybin
13: Brian Orakpo
16: Larry English
18: Robert Ayers
26: Clay Matthews
43: Everette Brown
46: Connor Barwin
57: Paul Kruger

2008 -
2: Chris Long
6: Vernon Gholston
8: Derrick Harvey
28: Lawrence Jackson
50: Calais Campbell

2007 -
4: Gaines Adams
8: Jamaal Anderson
17: Jarvis Moss
26: Anthony Spencer
46: LaMarr Woodley
56: Tim Crowder


So, uh, yeah, make sure you get Woodley, Orakpo, or Matthews.

EDIT - I think you're better off finding an established pass rusher in FA, if you're lucky enough to find one.

Edited by Mystic Merlin, 16 January 2011 - 08:50 PM.

[mikeot]

Pass rusher please, via draft pick, trade, FA , whatever

Outside WR threat, ditto

Nobody predicted a team with such a young defense to go 14-2 in the regular season; with playoff experience, albeit a bitter one, now under their belt, one could hope there's progress going into next season.

As for Brady, he does seem to have post SB-XLII playoff monkey on his back to exorcise, one way or another.

[SeoulSoxFan]

Light already sounds like a man out the door:

http://espn.go.com/b...-great-10-years

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- Patriots offensive tackle Matt Light, who is scheduled to be a free agent this spring, spoke to reporters after the game about his future.

"I've had a great 10 years here," Light said. "This has been a great organization, obviously a great place to come play as a rookie. Ten really solid years."

Here's one voice that says Light should be back with the Patriots. He's one of the better OL and hope he's a Pat next year.

[Mystic Merlin]

He was dating her during the 06 playoffs.

So what happened in the '05 playoffs? Why'd he shit the bed versus Denver?

Also, how do you explain his performance against JAX in '07? Was Gisele not bugging him too much that week?

Does she work her magic starting in the playoffs?

Like Mayock/Sharpe/Baldinger say: FANBALL

[buddin081259]

Back to Baseball

[SeoulSoxFan]

So what happened in the '05 playoffs? Why'd he shit the bed versus Denver?

Also, how do you explain his performance against JAX in '07? Was Gisele not bugging him too much that week?

Does she work her magic starting in the playoffs?

Like Mayock/Sharpe/Baldinger say: FANBALL

Brady's married life also caused the national deficit. Send Giselle to the North Pole if you want to save your children.

[shoosh77]

FAs for 2011 season:
Plaxico (yes, I said it)
Woodly (outbid Pitt)

[scottyno]

FAs for 2011 season:
Plaxico (yes, I said it)
Woodly (outbid Pitt)

much rather have TO, or Ochocinco (who is due a lot by bengals this year and might be cut) over plaxico

[Mystic Merlin]

Why don't they just bring AT back while they're at it?

I'd do handstands for Woodley (which will not happen), but Burress/TO/Ocho? Jesus, they just got finished purging the team of problems/primadonnas.

[scottyno]

Why don't they just bring AT back while they're at it?

I'd do handstands for Woodley (which will not happen), but Burress/TO/Ocho? Jesus, they just got finished purging the team of problems/primadonnas.

at least in ocho's case, he's been praising the pats and belichick for years, for some reason I feel like he'd be a good soldier if he came to the pats, at least for a year or 2

[kenneycb]

In Chad's defense he and BB love each other.

[mwonow]

Getting rid of BoB is beyond stupid. This was a historically good offense. This must be the same group that called for McDaniel's head, and now wishes Pats had him back.

BoB is not the problem on this team, not even by a nose.

The "historically good offense" just put up 3 pts in the first half of a home playoff game, and handed the Jets great field position throughout.

So yeah, it played great until January. But today's performance wasn't great, and before you say "it was just one game - and the Jets were really, really psyched up!" remember - it was the only win/go home game the Pats played this year, and the O totally shat the bed. (meanwhile, our young/green/denigrated D played pretty well).

I'm not getting all the "the O is fine, the coaching is fine, if we just had a pass rusher everything would be great" thing. The Pats came out flat, made bad decisions, demonstrated zero urgency from beginning to end, the O played about as poorly as they have since - well, the last playoff game they were in - and everyone thinks that Terrell Suggs or Clay Matthews is the reason the season's done? Why, would Suggs or Matthews have called for a no-huddle before the game clock was below 2:00, or asked our all-Pro QB to make some plays while there was still some time left in the game, instead of just handing off again - again - and again?

Truth is, this team has to look in the mirror, and try to see what it was that separated the January winners from the January losers. Maybe it's a high-motor OLB, but that seems a bit simplistic, given what just went down.

[Mystic Merlin]

In Chad's defense he and BB love each other.

He loves the ball more.

[kenneycb]

He loves the ball more.

Randy Moss did as well.

[backpeddling]

Pitt. will let Woodley go and not miss a beat. They seem to find/develop pass rushing ends with relative ease. Must be nice.

[axx]

Pass rusher, sure. But they need a legit deep threat.

The offense as it stands doesn't really have a way to get quick cheap points when things are not going well. Brady even tried once to bomb it to Tate, but Tate clearly isn't the answer. There are times when you need it, and they needed it against the Jets.

[shoosh77]

Why don't they just bring AT back while they're at it?

I'd do handstands for Woodley (which will not happen), but Burress/TO/Ocho? Jesus, they just got finished purging the team of problems/primadonnas.

I think Buress on a one year make good contract would work out all around. I can see him behaving knowing it is his best chance at another big payday. And he has to know Brady would be good for him.

[PedroKsBambino]

much rather have TO, or Ochocinco (who is due a lot by bengals this year and might be cut) over plaxico

I want no part of TO, and I'd be stunned if Belichick did either. He's not worth the effort at this point; we're not talking a gamble on prime-of-his-career TO here.

Ochocinco is someone I could imagine, but not sure about the fit. If anything, they need a WR who is a bit more of a homerun threat. Price is hanging around and likely to get PT next year, and Ocho doesn't fit that role.

[kenneycb]

Pass rusher, sure. But they need a legit deep threat.

The offense as it stands doesn't really have a way to get quick cheap points when things are not going well. Brady even tried once to bomb it to Tate, but Tate clearly isn't the answer. There are times when you need it, and they needed it against the Jets.

I mean, this is really only Tate's rookie year. I'm not sure why people were expecting him to turn into Randy Moss 2.0 after the trade. If he doesn't develop more in the coming season, sure there's reason to worry. But I think that everyone who's on the "Tate sucks" bandwagon needs to step away from the ledge.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I want no part of TO, and I'd be stunned if Belichick did either. He's not worth the effort at this point; we're not talking a gamble on prime-of-his-career TO here.

Ochocinco is someone I could imagine, but not sure about the fit. If anything, they need a WR who is a bit more of a homerun threat. Price is hanging around and likely to get PT next year, and Ocho doesn't fit that role.

And why would the Pats bring in another "star" receiver when over the past couple of years we've seen Brady force the ball to his "star" guy in spite of coverage and better options?

I really don't think Brady and the OC can handle having a star WR on the team. They seem to lose all self-control when they have one. I like Ochocinco but I can't see him working out well here.

[ivanvamp]

I think Buress on a one year make good contract would work out all around. I can see him behaving knowing it is his best chance at another big payday. And he has to know Brady would be good for him.

Moss on a 1-year, vet minimum, deal.

But yeah, a pass rusher would be really nice.

We have to remember that this was the youngest defense in the league. Spikes and Mayo are really good. McCourty is a superstar in the making. They'll get Ty Warren, Wright, and Bodden back, which will immediately improve the D. The offense will be fine. Welker, Branch, the RB, two TE...they'll be fine.

My wish list includes pass rushers, a couple of OLinemen, and good health for 2011. If they have that, they'll be in great shape.

[backpeddling]

If they were to add at the WR position I'd like to see them get someone with a good size - speed mix. Plax fits the bill if you're taking a flier. Jonathan Baldwin from Pitt. is an intriguing prospect from my limited College Football watching. The best young wideouts in the game are definitely the physical freaks.

[Bellhorn]

The "historically good offense" just put up 3 pts in the first half of a home playoff game, and handed the Jets great field position throughout.

So yeah, it played great until January. But today's performance wasn't great, and before you say "it was just one game - and the Jets were really, really psyched up!" remember - it was the only win/go home game the Pats played this year, and the O totally shat the bed. (meanwhile, our young/green/denigrated D played pretty well).

I'm not getting all the "the O is fine, the coaching is fine, if we just had a pass rusher everything would be great" thing.

Yes, I agree. The last three playoff exits have featured a 5th-percentile type of effort from the offense, relative to their regular season standard. There's clearly more at work here than just random variance of player performance, and while I know some people, for whatever reason, feel compelled to dismiss this suggestion out of hand, I think the most rational assumption has to be that this is at least partly due to McDaniels/O'Brien getting out-schemed by their defensive counterparts.

[Tyrone Biggums]

How about a real left tackle? Vollmer is untested on the blindside. Light has had a great run with the Pats, but I think that's a huge reason why Brady at times looked erratic today. True, you can't make a snap judgment based on one game however you can't tell me that Light has been great the last few seasons. Pass rusher would be a great but as a poster mentioned its an inexact science. It also probably wouldn't be a terrible idea to grab a QB in the 3rd/4th round to groom over the next few seasons either.