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Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez


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#101 BosRedSox5


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:12 AM

So what does this do to the Red Sox lineup if we suddenly stopped improving right now. (We won't but it would let us kind of see what else is needed.)

CF- Jacoby Ellsbury [L]
2B- Dustin Pedroia [R]
1B- Adrian Gonzalez [L]
3B- Kevin Youkilis [R]
DH- David Ortiz [L]
SS- Jed Lowrie [S]
RF- J.D. Drew [L]
LF- Mike Cameron [R]/Ryan Kalish [L]
C- Jarrod Saltalamacchia [S]/Jason Varitek [S]

We'd still probably want a left fielder unless Theo really felt like Kalish was ready for a lot of major league reps and didn't want to write off the 7.5 million they're paying Cameron. No doubt Jayson Werth would look awesome in that lineup hitting 6th but we'd lose some of the picks we'd gained and have to shell out a ton of money still. Also, I'd still like to try and bring in Russell Martin and see what he's got. Otherwise, this is a good team with a potentially deep bench (depending on how Theo plays it) we'd already have either Lowrie/Scutaro on the bench (providing Lowrie isn't part of the deal) and we're probably going to have Cameron there too.

#102 OCD SS


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:18 AM

Can one of these sources get us the names of the prospects, please?


Actually I'm pretty impressed that the info on the prospects going has been all but non-existant. Theo is running a very tight ship. Even the report that Kelly would definitely be involved doesn't seem to be much more than someone who's not in the room assuming that Boston's top prospect has to go.

#103 86spike


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:18 AM

Obviously getting getting Gonzalez is awesome. But giving up Kelly, Rizzo and Kalish would be brutal, along with having to give Gonzalez the monster extension, and dealing with his shoulder situation. Something like that would be a huge day for Hoyer. I would rather give up Iglesias instead of one of those three.


Would you feel better if I told you that it is very likely that only one of those guys will fulfill his potential, one of them will be a total bust, and the other two will be OK big leaguers but nothing to build a team around?

#104 SoxScout


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:20 AM

Would you feel better if I told you that it is very likely that only one of those guys will fulfill his potential, one of them will be a total bust, and the other two will be OK big leaguers but nothing to build a team around?

No, but I would have felt better if we paid less money than Gonzalez is going to get for Martinez and Beltre and we still had all the kids.

Edited by SoxScout, 04 December 2010 - 08:20 AM.


#105 Eric Van


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:20 AM

I think the Padres are definitely not going to just let Gonzo walk and are trading him now or trading him next summer for the most they can get. Whoever gets him is going to extend him. Your "they could sign him as a FA" theory seems like the most unlikely scenario to me.

I know Jed pretty well and I don't think he was lying when he said he intended to keep Gonzalez unless he got an overwhelming offer. And that made sense because he had a very real shot at winning the division if he kept him, and that's worth a ton. We had no incentive to initiate that offer but every incentive to prevent him going to the Cubs. What I failed to consider was the likelihood of another club being able to trade for him and sign him, forcing us to outbid them.

#106 86spike


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:24 AM

No, but I would have felt better if we paid less money than Gonzalez is going to get for Martinez and Beltre and we still had all the kids.


A superstar in the hand is worth 4 prospects in the bush.

#107 Bdanahy14

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:25 AM

This feels like Christmas in December!

Fells like Rizzo is an obvious choice along with Kelly (who it looks like is in) as he is blocked at 1B now. The rest of the package will ultimately tell us a lot.

I hope it is not much more. We are trading for one year and the right to extend - a big deal for sure, but I'd hate to part with those two and Kalish or Lowrie.

I'd send Ellsbury in a cocaine heartbeat but don't think that Hoyer would want anything to do with Boras client heading into arb years.

Very exciting. Did somone already post Adrian Gonzalez's hit charts laid over Fenway in another thread? I just don't know how to do it, but would be neat to see

Edited by Bdanahy14, 04 December 2010 - 08:25 AM.


#108 SoxScout


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:28 AM

Posted Image

http://sonsofsamhorn...k-onto-another/

Edited by SoxScout, 04 December 2010 - 08:28 AM.


#109 yecul


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:29 AM

Ultimately this comes down to Gonzalez being an extremely talented player who will be joining Boston. With their resources they can fix holes and replaces losses. Not to mention they are in line for a number of draft picks to replace prospects.

A prospect can only provide value via trade or on the field. If the latter is unlikely or if their market value trumps their projected value (in their eyes), then you make a trade. They will be losing prospects that they like, but all of these guys have huge errors bars attached to them. For every Hanley that you trade away there are boatloads more that have a cup of coffee at best.

If Gonzalez is awesome and Rizzo pans out, oh well. Win-win.

#110 OCD SS


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:31 AM

Obviously getting getting Gonzalez is awesome. But giving up Kelly, Rizzo and Kalish would be brutal, along with having to give Gonzalez the monster extension, and dealing with his shoulder situation. Something like that would be a huge day for Hoyer. I would rather give up Iglesias instead of one of those three.


I agree. Kelly is the guy I hate giving up. I just assume that Rizzo goes because he's suddenly redundant and blocked. I have a hard time seeing Kalish go since he seems to be the best bet to replace Drew next year (I just don't think that Werth's defense is going to be very good in Fenway, and Kalish can probably still spot start in CF).

#111 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:33 AM

Actually I'm pretty impressed that the info on the prospects going has been all but non-existant. Theo is running a very tight ship. Even the report that Kelly would definitely be involved doesn't seem to be much more than someone who's not in the room assuming that Boston's top prospect has to go.


Yeah - I've noticed that, too, and thought it very impressive. The Boston press has seemed totally shut out during negotiations, which is as it should be.

#112 RedOctober3829


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:33 AM

Didn't see this anywhere in the last couple of pages.

The Boston Red Sox have agreed to a deal in principle to acquire slugging first baseman Adrian Gonzalez, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney on Saturday morning.

The Red Sox have received permission from Major League Baseball to negotiate with Gonzalez on a new contract, the sources said, and Gonzalez's physical examination, one of last hurdles to the deal, could happen Saturday, when Gonzalez was expected to be in Boston.

The Padres would not receive any established major league players in the trade, but it's likely the Red Sox would include their top pitching prospect, Casey Kelly, sources have said.

Edes

#113 Bdanahy14

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:34 AM

Posted Image

http://sonsofsamhorn...k-onto-another/


Thanks SoxScout - sorry for my laziness.

That bomb in left would have cleared the pike and hit a damn scalper near the bank of america atm. Man, that is a pretty looking site

#114 bosockboy


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:37 AM

There's been a lot of naysayers claiming that Youk would never play 3B again. It's happened. It least this argument is over and put to bed.

#115 Sille Skrub

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:42 AM

A superstar in the hand is worth 4 prospects in the bush.

Quoted for truth.

I am absolutely giddy at the thought of Adrian Gonzalez in a Red Sox uniform.

Merry Christmas, indeed!

#116 Eric Van


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:44 AM

There was a report saying one MLB-ready player ... does anyone have a guess? It's not going to be Kalish. It might be Reddick, but if they can't sign Crawford or Werth you probably want to keep him around.

Best guy who fits the description would be Bowden, who would probably be a very good fit in that park, relative to elsewhere. Jed liked him a lot -- back when everyone else did, too. Now he's not even a Top 30 prospect according to Callis in his chat.

Kelly, Rizzo, Lin, and Bowden? That or anything less would make a lot of people happy.

OTOH, it's possible that the report is just a guess.

#117 86spike


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:50 AM

There's been a lot of naysayers claiming that Youk would never play 3B again. It's happened. It least this argument is over and put to bed.


I look forward to the A-Rod vs Youks all-star game starting 3Bman voting battle this summer.

#118 Frisbetarian


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:51 AM

I look forward to the A-Rod vs Youks all-star game starting 3Bman voting battle this summer.


Evan Longoria may have some say in that debate, though.

#119 86spike


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:54 AM

Evan Longoria may have some say in that debate, though.


TB has fans still?

Perhaps the Gonzalez vs. Teixeira slap fight will be better.

#120 Doctor G

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:01 AM

I'm hoping they can hang onto LIn and Iglesias.

How much of this deal is driven by Adrian Gonzalez wanting to compete in the AL East where the media spotlight is brightest and in a ballpark that he could have designed to fit his hitting profile.

This is going to move a lot of tickets between now and Christmas.

#121 Eric Van


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:05 AM

I'm hoping they can hang onto LIn and Iglesias.

Lin is such an obvious fit for the Padres and so likely to be expendable (by the time Ellsbury is a FA, you hope Fuentes is ready) that I'm surprised his name hasn't been floated.

#122 patinorange


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:05 AM

There's been a lot of naysayers claiming that Youk would never play 3B again. It's happened. It least this argument is over and put to bed.



The thought of moving Youks from first to third is the only thing dampening the excitement. He's a great first baseman and (hopefully} just a good third baseman.
Then I stare at that hit chart for a few minutes and feel better.

#123 The Hit Dog

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:11 AM

Well this is happening quickly. I just woke up - have any players been confirmed? I'm assuming it starts with Kelly and Rizzo?

#124 BTwnDreamin

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:12 AM

The thought of moving Youks from first to third is the only thing dampening the excitement. He's a great first baseman and (hopefully} just a good third baseman.
Then I stare at that hit chart for a few minutes and feel better.


Youks was a more than serviceable 3B when he played there and we know he can get on base and rake. Beltre raked, but he also raked before this last contract and then crapped out in Seattle (albeit a bad ballpark/lineup).

I think we get a slight upgrade in the power department with this move and it remains to be seen what we get in the Werth/Crawford et al. sweepstakes.

I also read a report that Heath Bell was being considered as part of this, but I doubt we gave up more to get him in the deal. I only bring that up because our BPen is still such a question mark as well as left field and potentially SS...tbc.

#125 OCD SS


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:13 AM

Well this is happening quickly. I just woke up - have any players been confirmed? I'm assuming it starts with Kelly and Rizzo?


No, there's lots of guessing. The strongest indication is that Kelly is going, and the consensus is that Rizzo would be blocked and going to, but that's it...

#126 JimD

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:14 AM

My excitement level is right up there with how I felt when Theo landed Schilling and Duke landed Manny.

If true, any lingering anguish over losing Teixiera to the Yankees will be gone forever.

#127 CoRP

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:17 AM

Its fascinating to watch the number of people reading this thread go up by the minute. It's increased by over 200 people in the past 5 minutes. Everyone must be watching SportsCenter.

Edited by CoRP, 04 December 2010 - 09:18 AM.


#128 DanoooME


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:18 AM

It makes perfect sense that Kelly and Rizzo go. Rizzo is effectively blocked by Youk/Gonzalez. Kelly is effectively blocked by the starting staff the Sox have today with Doubront as #6 ahead of him. The one I really don't want to see go is Iglesias as Lowrie insurance for the future. With the upcoming 40 man jam coming up after 2011 that's been documented here, the Sox need to color up some of their chips and improve the lineup. This trade does just that.

#129 Laschelle Tarver

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:19 AM

Why is that? If the Sox are going to give up the farm for a player, it should be for a legitimate superstar smack dab in the prime of his career. The Sox have plenty of money; if the Sox want to compete every year for the title, I can't think of a better way to use the farm system than to acquire guys like Gonzalez. They can't sign these guys as free agents if the Yankees are involved; they'll never win a bidding war with NY. So making trades is the logical step to take.


Dead on, SJH.

#130 Gambler7

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:22 AM

It makes perfect sense that Kelly and Rizzo go. Rizzo is effectively blocked by Youk/Gonzalez. Kelly is effectively blocked by the starting staff the Sox have today with Doubront as #6 ahead of him. The one I really don't want to see go is Iglesias as Lowrie insurance for the future. With the upcoming 40 man jam coming up after 2011 that's been documented here, the Sox need to color up some of their chips and improve the lineup. This trade does just that.

EXACTLY. I am in love with this deal. The only guy I would hate to lose is Kalish. But if you have to for Gonzalez you have to. I have no issue with Kelly, Rizzo, whoever. I feel it's a steal. Those guys are essentially blocked here, you have Ranaudo who should move up quickly to take Kelly's spot, you are going to be loaded with picks this winter to restock (as they started to do this year).

It's a no-brainer. I never thought they would be able to get him without using someone off the MLB roster.

Edited by Gambler7, 04 December 2010 - 09:22 AM.


#131 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:22 AM

The problem about speculating prospects is that the system is so deep. You could seriously craft a hundred different roughly-equivalent packages.

Because Hoyer and Theo appear to value players so similarly, it will be fascinating to see which names were agreed upon.

#132 jtn46


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:22 AM

I think we get a slight upgrade in the power department with this move and it remains to be seen what we get in the Werth/Crawford et al. sweepstakes.

Sox have to be out of the Crawford sweepstakes now, don't they? Can't see 5 LHB's in a Sox lineup, especially when Gonzalez is the only one we can assume won't be bad against LHP.

#133 mfried

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:24 AM

Sox have to be out of the Crawford sweepstakes now, don't they? Can't see 5 LHB's in a Sox lineup, especially when Gonzalez is the only one we can assume won't be bad against LHP.


Does anyone know what happened to AG in 2010 with regard to his splits? In previous years he hit significantly better vs. RH pitchers, but last year he displayed strange reverse splits.

#134 BTwnDreamin

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:26 AM

Smiling Joe Hesketh, on 03 December 2010 - 07:18 PM, said:

Why is that? If the Sox are going to give up the farm for a player, it should be for a legitimate superstar smack dab in the prime of his career. The Sox have plenty of money; if the Sox want to compete every year for the title, I can't think of a better way to use the farm system than to acquire guys like Gonzalez. They can't sign these guys as free agents if the Yankees are involved; they'll never win a bidding war with NY. So making trades is the logical step to take.


Dead on, SJH.


Yep...and that's one of the reasons they've put so much stock in the farm system in the past several years. They know if they really want to the Yanks will outbid them, so they either need to develop the talent and/or trade that talent for more established talent.

"Losing out" on Beltre, Martinez etc they still get to do the above as well, which makes these trades that much easier. An underated move was offering arbitration to Lopez which again yields a sandwhich pick.

This is a great philosophy if the player(s) they get in trades are the right caliber and if they can continue to bring up guys like Youks, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Paps etc...

Edited by BTwnDreamin, 04 December 2010 - 09:27 AM.


#135 DanoooME


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:27 AM

Does anyone know what happened to AG in 2010 with regard to his splits? In previous years he hit significantly better vs. RH pitchers, but last year he displayed strange reverse splits.


My inclination is SSS, but he improved his K/BB ratio against them significantly last year, so maybe he's just gotten enough experience against them that something finally clicked.

#136 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:27 AM

Sox have to be out of the Crawford sweepstakes now, don't they? Can't see 5 LHB's in a Sox lineup, especially when Gonzalez is the only one we can assume won't be bad against LHP.


Yeah, I think the Crawford Derby is now a two-horse race between NY and LA.

#137 irinmike

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:28 AM

I could not be happier if in fact this deal gets done. As for giving up prospects, you have to give up something to get something! I for one would take an established budding super star like Gonzales any time for potential in prospects. This is exactly what our team needs to move forward. Bring on AG! And I don't think we are done either. Next year is already looking much brighter then it did at the end of October!

#138 Gambler7

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:31 AM

Sox have to be out of the Crawford sweepstakes now, don't they? Can't see 5 LHB's in a Sox lineup, especially when Gonzalez is the only one we can assume won't be bad against LHP.

Absolutely. I think they go hard after Werth for more RH power.

#139 BTwnDreamin

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:31 AM

Sox have to be out of the Crawford sweepstakes now, don't they? Can't see 5 LHB's in a Sox lineup, especially when Gonzalez is the only one we can assume won't be bad against LHP.


After I wrote that I thought of the same thing. We'd be pretty LHB heavy, but honestly, I never thought Crawford a great fit if we had Ellsbury too and figured they'd want a more established power-hitter instead.

Plus the money and years are pretty scary with Crawford. I'm hearing 8years and 6 figures+.

#140 Drek717

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:40 AM

Well, here's hoping they feel DAMN good about his shoulder.

I'm assuming the structure of the deal was something like this:

Kelly or Dubrount
Rizzo or Anderson
Kalish or Reddick
Iglesias or Navarro

Where the Sox are likely hoping to get away with two from the left and one from the right or one from the left, three from the right. San Diego obviously wants all four from the right but would I'm sure be more than happy with three from the left or two from the left, two from the right.

Be interesting to see what the actual compensation is. If its closer to what SD's ideal would be then here's hoping Gonzalez doesn't also land a Teixeira sized contract.

#141 wade boggs chicken dinner


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:40 AM

It makes perfect sense that Kelly and Rizzo go. Rizzo is effectively blocked by Youk/Gonzalez. Kelly is effectively blocked by the starting staff the Sox have today with Doubront as #6 ahead of him. The one I really don't want to see go is Iglesias as Lowrie insurance for the future. With the upcoming 40 man jam coming up after 2011 that's been documented here, the Sox need to color up some of their chips and improve the lineup. This trade does just that.

I agree with this completely. Basically anyone in the top 30 (50?) other than Iglesias. Kalish makes sense to me because he's an athlete and he can get the ABs he needs in relative obscurity. Kelly, Rizzo, Kalish, Bowden - that would seem to be a win-win for both sides.

Someone said upthread that you can never have enough prospects - but in one sense, that's not true because there comes a point where you can't give all of them the ABs that they need at the appropriate level.

As has been well documented, our farm system has a tremendous amount of depth. No one can tell which are going to pan out and which are not. It's time to trade depth for a superstar.

.

#142 4-6-3

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:40 AM

Take it for what its worth:

Have a source that indicates Adrian Gonzalez is in town for a physical. This thing may have some legs...

You source appears to have been on target. Olney reports on twitter that the Sox had flown Gonzalez into Boston to get the deal done.

#143 4-6-3

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:45 AM

Absolutely. I think they go hard after Werth for more RH power.

Will the Sox have anything left to put together an Upton trade?

#144 absintheofmalaise


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:47 AM

Will the Sox have anything left to put together an Upton trade?

Seriously?

#145 Montana Fan


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:47 AM

There was a report saying one MLB-ready player ... does anyone have a guess? It's not going to be Kalish. It might be Reddick, but if they can't sign Crawford or Werth you probably want to keep him around.

Best guy who fits the description would be Bowden, who would probably be a very good fit in that park, relative to elsewhere. Jed liked him a lot -- back when everyone else did, too. Now he's not even a Top 30 prospect according to Callis in his chat.

Kelly, Rizzo, Lin, and Bowden? That or anything less would make a lot of people happy.

OTOH, it's possible that the report is just a guess.


Gotta be Reddick or Doubront.

#146 IpswichSox

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:50 AM

You source appears to have been on target. Olney reports on twitter that the Sox had flown Gonzalez into Boston to get the deal done.

Bradford just said on EEI that he thinks Gonzalez is already here.

#147 The Hit Dog

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:50 AM

Gotta be Reddick or Doubront.


I would think so. Hoping for Reddick.

#148 Carmine Hose

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:53 AM

It seems that getting Ranaudo signed was the key here to be able to use Kelly as the prime trade chip.

Now it's time to guess the deal.

#149 SoxFanSince57


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:56 AM

Well I have been schooled by Theo once again. I thought the idea of the Sox prospects, Gonzalez' FA next year and the status of his shoulder would have pushed discussions of AG off until next summer or after the season.

Looks like Theo believes the chance that Gonzalez would be extended by another team (Cubs et al) is great and feels compelled to act now or risk losing the player he covets the most.

I still can see the Sox playing someone other than Youks at 3B in 2012 with Youks and Gonzalez splitting 1B and DH. (Lowrie?) If Lowrie is not in their 3B plans then it seems like there would be more momentum behind rumors to trade Scutaro. I can't see the Sox keeping Scutaro or Lowrie on the bench this season.

It will be very interesting to see who is added to the apparent package of Kelly and Rizzo.

I agree with those who think LHH Crawford is no longer a target and that Werth still is. (However, I wonder what the Sox would do if Ellsbury is included in this deal.)

#150 Buzzkill Pauley


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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:59 AM

Will the Sox have anything left to put together an Upton trade?


Yeah, they'll still have Bard and Lowrie and Buchholz, which would probably sound about right to Towers.


Seriously though -- this is why I said the base of the deals for Gonzalez or Upton would be completely different. I still can't believe Hoyer was willing to accept an all-prospect package!