131 replies to this topic

[luckysox]

Ellsbury leaves tonight's game with left side pain. Here we go...

Was there a specific dive or play? Or does his batting average hit his ribs every time it goes down?

[Sprowl]

Was there a specific dive or play? Or does his batting average hit his ribs every time it goes down?

Ellsbury collided with Hunter at the first base bag on a slow roller down the line. He took quite a tumble after contact.

[SoxScout]

Francona says Ells is heading to LA to meet with Dr. Yocum.

[Rasputin]

Can we just put the whole team on the DL for the remainder of the season so as not to impact our Mayor's Cup chances?

[Plympton91]

So yet again, the injury that was supposed to be healed and therefore couldn't be reaggravated by playing, has been reaggravated by playing.

I'm so glad that big burly men like Kevin Youkilis and a bunch of Joe BurgerKings convinced Ellsbury to rush back a second time before his body was ready to perform. It worked out really swell, what with him predictably sucking for two weeks and then getting hurt worse.

[BucketOBalls]

Hey Tito...god hates Ellsbury hitting leadoff.


You just gotta laugh at this point. Between this and Youk's freak injury?...I just don't know what to say. It kind of makes sense though. With Pedroia coming back, someone had to get hurt.


It would actually be almost comical if Lowrie was somehow healthy the rest of the year.

[radsoxfan]

I will preface this statement by saying it is reactionary:

But I'm pretty sure Ellsbury is just a gigantic pussy.

Send him to San Diego already

[Seels]

Here's what I think happened, 100% conjecture of course:

Because of what happened with the first two times, and Ellsbury publicly voicing that the FO / medical team hurt the situation rather than helped it, I think Francona took Ellsbury out once he saw the first indication of something, and the FO decided to be ultra precautious (maybe even if they think nothing at all is wrong). If Ellsbury is fine, he looks bad for coming out of the game and getting checked out in the first place. If something is actually wrong, Ellsbury looks like a complete puss, and management is seen as doing the right thing. Win / win for the Sox FO, lose / lose for Ellsbury.

But yea at this point he's a complete pussy either way.

[SMU_Sox]

So he's a complete wimp if he reinjured (maybe broke) his ribs? That seems a bit unfair. Did I misread you or is that what you really think?

[radsoxfan]

So he's a complete wimp if he reinjured (maybe broke) his ribs? That seems a bit unfair. Did I misread you or is that what you really think?

If he re-broke his ribs, then I'll take it back.

But ribs don't "re-break" easily, and I'm not sure I can pinpoint the trauma in the game tonight that would have caused a new fracture. Perhaps I missed it.

Edited by radsoxfan, 14 August 2010 - 02:27 AM.

[SMU_Sox]

If he re-broke his ribs, then I'll take it back.

But ribs don't "re-break" easily, and I'm not sure I can pinpoint the trauma in the game tonight that would have caused a new fracture. Perhaps I missed it.

1st inning fall. He rolled a few times on the ground. He ran into Tommy Hunter trying to beat a grounder. It looked pretty bad - I was surprised he stayed in.

[Adirondack jack]

1st inning fall. He rolled a few times on the ground. He ran into Tommy Hunter trying to beat a grounder. It looked pretty bad - I was surprised he stayed in.

I don't know about that, I thought it looked pretty harmless. Looked like Ellsbury tripped over the bag more than anything and landed on his left side. The impact didn't look to be that bad though, but if that bothered him, and apparently it did, he shouldn't be playing. If a player is healthy it would be a pretty rare occurrence that that little of a trip up results in an injury ending someone's day.

Not sure if the link will still be good tomorrow..(but from mlb.com

Edited by Adirondack jack, 14 August 2010 - 03:59 AM.

[SMU_Sox]

If a player is healthy it would be a pretty rare occurrence that that little of a trip up results in an injury ending someone's day.

Not sure if the link will still be good tomorrow..(but from mlb.com

Tell that to Eagles fans. (2006)

And, of course, the McNabb injury was the biggest blow. It appeared to be a serious injury, one of those that happen when nobody touches a player and his knee just gives out for no apparent reason. Those fears were confirmed after the game when it was announced that McNabb was done for the season with a torn anterior cruciate ligament.
On a second-and-10 play from the Tennessee 47-yard line, McNabb rolled right and threw a pass down the right sideline intended for Stallworth. The pass bounced incomplete. Nobody thought much at the time, other than it was another strange misfire from McNabb.

It looked bad to me and Ellsbury was very slow getting back to the bench. Maybe because it happened to Jacoby I perceived the fall as more than it was. You're right though, on TV it didn't look like anything that out of the ordinary.

[Redkluzu]

Per Globe Ellsbury headed home for an MRI

[TC]

I've seen the replay a few times and while he hit the ground fairly hard, Ellsbury didn't even grimace at the time. Seems unlikely he'd break his ribs again and not even have a reaction at the time it happened.

[Paul M]

It's a lost year at this point and except for a few stolen bases, I'm not sure if the impact the rest of the year will matter a lot. He wasn't comfortable or confident in his return so let's move on. Maybe next year he'll get a chance to show he can be a dynamic player in the mold of Carl Crawford or early 2000s Johnny Damon.

[jtn46]

Dude obviously has some weirdo MRI fetish.


It is kind of interesting that he needs to fly to Boston to get an MRI. Seems like most players just use the nearest MRI machine. Maybe the Sox medical staff has had it with him.

[luckysox]

Season over. Seriously, I wouldn't even think about using him again this year if that fall is going to cause him to re-injure himself. He simply shouldn't be playing. Get Nava (FREE NAVA) back up and put Kalish in Center. You have to wonder if there is something else physically going on. Not that I have any idea what that would be, but this seems...strange. Doesn't this just seem strange?

If Kalish starts to hit again and proves he can be a big leaguer next season (perchance he should work on laying off of the breaking stuff), I think the chance of Ells being packaged and moved over the winter are very high. No matter what happens, short of him having (God forbid - seriously) some kind of tumor or rare disease that no one can pick up on, he has lost just about all credibility with fans and the team. I'm not saying it's right, but the "soft" label is not going to be easy to remove.

[bob burda]

I think it might be best for the Sox to just formally announce he's not coming back, that whatever injury he has will require more than ordinary time to heal. Put him on the 60 day DL with Youk. Forget about him for 2010 and let's have everybody MOVE ON already.

[EvilEmpire]

Is there something else going on with the organization or his teammates or something? The whole Pavano vibe is getting stronger. Starting to look like he just doesn't want to be there.

[SoxFanSince57]

Ellsbury: "I just landed on my side and back and got that sharp pain in there. I tried to play through it. ... I didn't want to come out of the game. That was the biggest thing. Tito and I talked, and he took me out. We'll get it looked at tomorrow. I really don't want to compare it (to the previous injury). We'll keep our fingers crossed and try to be optimistic about it."

Tito: "Unfortunately he managed to fall right on the same spot. It's very concerning. The exam that [head athletic trainer Mike Reinold] did, it was very concerning. We'll get him looked as as quickly as we can so we can try and make a decision going forward. ... He's pretty sore, we'll see."

The Globe report was pasted a number of posts up-thread. I prefer to rely on these statements as opposed to more wild speculation -- particularly about Ellsbury's courage to play or his interest in playing in Boston.

[pokey_reese]

Is there something else going on with the organization or his teammates or something? The whole Pavano vibe is getting stronger. Starting to look like he just doesn't want to be there.

Ellsbury has been diagnosed with bonitis. He is to be placed on the 1000-yr DL, and frozen until a cure is found.

Now, Lord knows I am no doctor, but in the event that he actually did manage to get fracture the same ribs again last night, what are the odds that this becomes a long-term, chronic injury? How many times can you break the same ribs before they just become perforated like a sheet of notebook paper? Has he been checked for osteoporosis, or something in that family?

Hopefully he is just bruised and everyone is now hyper-sensitive about his ribcage, and he will be back in a day or two, but if anything is actually wrong, I agree that he should be shut down for the season. After the last two gut-punch losses on days the Rays lost, I am not convinced that this team makes a run even with him, and I don't know that they are worse without him.

[TomRicardo]

I think it might be best for the Sox to just formally announce he's not coming back, that whatever injury he has will require more than ordinary time to heal. Put him on the 60 day DL with Youk. Forget about him for 2010 and let's have everybody MOVE ON already.

Jacoby Ellsbury is the not the difference maker for 2010. He isn't that a good a player to begin with (exciting to watch but doesn't put that much on the table otherwise) and has sucked minus some steals since coming back.

Edited by TomRicardo, 14 August 2010 - 12:08 PM.

[Sprowl]

Jacoby Ellsbury is the not the difference maker for 2010. He isn't that a good a player to begin with (exciting to watch but doesn't put that much on the table otherwise) and has sucked minus some steals since coming back.

His offense has been pretty weak, reverting to the slap hitting style that seems to produce popups to the opposite field and soft liners at infielders. His defense, however, has been very good, and I think the Red Sox will notice the difference with Patterson and McDonald in centerfield very quickly. In his few games back from injury ELJE was visibly better at getting a jump on the ball than in 2009. He used his speed to get under the ball for easy-appearing catches on the warning track, rather than gliding under it (like Cameron) or shying away from the wall (like 2008). The reduction in torso muscle mass that seems to have accompanied the recovery from rib injury made Ellsbury, if anything, quicker. ELJE is not the difference maker, but he made a lot of difference in the outfield when he came back. With Cameron also on the shelf, losing Ellsbury for the rest of the season would be a real blow to the team's playoff chances.

[joyofsox]

Serious dick move by Peter Abraham in the sixth inning of in the Extra Bases game blog:

Ellsbury update

The official report on Ellsbury: Left side pain.

The unofficial report is up to you. But it sure looks bad that he took himself out of the game. I'm sure we'll get a full report in two months after he gets back from Arizona and gets his statement written.

Pretty cool of Carnac Jr. to know -- before the 7th inning -- that Ellsbury "took himself out of the game". Not it looks bad IF he took himself out, but that he DID take himself out and that's no good.

Peter, you undercut a lot of the very positive stuff you bring to the Globe with this shit.

[Pumpsie]

Serious dick move by Peter Abraham in the sixth inning of in the Extra Bases game blog:


Pretty cool of Carnac Jr. to know -- before the 7th inning -- that Ellsbury "took himself out of the game". Not it looks bad IF he took himself out, but that he DID take himself out and that's no good.

Peter, you undercut a lot of the very positive stuff you bring to the Globe with this shit.

ITA. This isn't journalism. If Abraham had the same injury Ellsbury has, he probably wouldn't even get out of bed for 3 months. Easy to be snide from the sidelines like this. It's just REALLY stupid.

[Pumpsie]

Is there something else going on with the organization or his teammates or something? The whole Pavano vibe is getting stronger. Starting to look like he just doesn't want to be there.

Nonsense. The guy has five fractured ribs and he plays hard with utter disdain for his injury and re-injures them. That's all that's going on here. It's unfortunate and it sucks, but only a few mediots have been trying to come up with the Pavano-type angle. Ignore them.

[glennhoffmania]

In retrospect, I can't believe anyone was arguing to trade Coco and Lester instead of Ellsbury in the Santana deal. I never thought that Ellsbury would end up being much better than average, and this season has been one big circus as far as he's concerned.

[Rasputin]

See you in Fort Myers.

Really no point in trying to bring him back earlier.

[radsoxfan]

Amalie Benjamin's twitter: "From Tito: edema to the soft tissue in the same area as before. There's new trauma from the fall. Feels worse than in Tampa."

When you've got edema in the soft tissues, I mean, how are you supposed to play?

The only counter to that argument is the fact that there isn't a single player on the roster who doesn't have "edema in the soft tissues" somewhere in their body by this point in the season. Thats what happens when you get hit by a pitch, dive, run into a wall, etc.

"New trauma" being used quite loosely there.

Edit: just saw SoxFanSince57's post. Without seeing the scan, who knows what "a faint line" means. I'm sure thats not how they actually dictated the study. But a healed broken rib will be noticable for a long time, and usually for life on these scans. So evidence of some abnormality at the fracture site means nothing unless they have a prior scan from after the injury that shows it wasn't there.

Maybe the Sox should CT Jacoby before every game when (if?) he comes back. That way when he gets bumped, the staff can have a real-time comparison to make sure they know whenever a "faint line" is a new injury.

Edited by radsoxfan, 14 August 2010 - 05:39 PM.

[SoxFanSince57]

Jacoby Ellsbury is back on the 15-day disabled list. He has swelling in the same area and a "faint line" around the same area as a previous fracture.

He had a CT scan and MRI today at Mass General.

Here's what Terry Francona had to say:

"We knew there was a chance this was going to be a DL, which it is. What we have, I'll give you the capsule version because it's what I know. The results showed some edema to the soft tissue in the same area, suggesting new trauma from the fall. There's like a line, a faint line, at the fracture site. It's impossible to tell [whether it's] new [or] incomplete healing. You have to go on the symptoms and Jake says its worse than the Tampa [incident], so we knew he was a DL."

Globe Update: 6:08pm

Edited by SoxFanSince57, 14 August 2010 - 05:30 PM.

[Sprowl]

Amalie Benjamin's twitter: "From Tito: edema to the soft tissue in the same area as before. There's new trauma from the fall. Feels worse than in Tampa."

When you've got edema in the soft tissues, I mean, how are you supposed to play?

The only counter to that argument is the fact that there isn't a single player on the roster who doesn't have "edema in the soft tissues" somewhere in their body by this point in the season. Thats what happens when you get hit by a pitch, dive, run into a wall, etc.

"New trauma" being used quite loosely there.

Are you thinking that new trauma is being used with reference to ELJE's psyche?

Tito is being much more careful and generous with his words than last time.

Is edema always swelling exterior to the rib cage, or could this refer to something internal as well? I'm remembering past discussions in which the most serious issue arising from rib fractures would be some bone impact on the lungs or other internal organ.

[Rasputin]

Amalie Benjamin's twitter: "From Tito: edema to the soft tissue in the same area as before. There's new trauma from the fall. Feels worse than in Tampa."

When you've got edema in the soft tissues, I mean, how are you supposed to play?

The only counter to that argument is the fact that there isn't a single player on the roster who doesn't have "edema in the soft tissues" somewhere in their body by this point in the season. Thats what happens when you get hit by a pitch, dive, run into a wall, etc.

"New trauma" being used quite loosely there.

Edit: just saw SoxFanSince57's post. Without seeing the scan, who knows what "a faint line" means. I'm sure thats not how they actually dictated the study. But a healed broken rib will be noticable for a long time, and usually for life on these scans. So evidence of some abnormality at the fracture site means nothing unless they have a prior scan from after the injury that shows it wasn't there.

Maybe the Sox should CT Jacoby before every game when (if?) he comes back. That way when he gets bumped, the staff can have a real-time comparison to make sure they know whenever a "faint line" is a new injury.

I think part of the problem is that the rib cage and the muscles around it move when doing pretty much any baseball activity. Bad ribs are going to mess with your swing. They're going to mess with your defense. They're going to mess with your baserunning.

And really, let's face it, without his baserunning and defense Ellsbury's bat aint all that special.

[P'tucket, rhymes with...]

Amalie Benjamin's twitter: "From Tito: edema to the soft tissue in the same area as before. There's new trauma from the fall. Feels worse than in Tampa."

When you've got edema in the soft tissues, I mean, how are you supposed to play?

The only counter to that argument is the fact that there isn't a single player on the roster who doesn't have "edema in the soft tissues" somewhere in their body by this point in the season. Thats what happens when you get hit by a pitch, dive, run into a wall, etc.

"New trauma" being used quite loosely there.

Edit: just saw SoxFanSince57's post. Without seeing the scan, who knows what "a faint line" means. I'm sure thats not how they actually dictated the study. But a healed broken rib will be noticable for a long time, and usually for life on these scans. So evidence of some abnormality at the fracture site means nothing unless they have a prior scan from after the injury that shows it wasn't there.

Maybe the Sox should CT Jacoby before every game when (if?) he comes back. That way when he gets bumped, the staff can have a real-time comparison to make sure they know whenever a "faint line" is a new injury.

So let's review. Up above you (admittedly in reactionary mode) call Ellsbury a pussy and suggest he be shipped to San Diego.

Now we've got a second hand pathology report identifying some findings in vague language, you haven't seen the films, and there's no way to determine the correlation between physical trauma and the subjective discomfort it's creating. For whatever reason--I don't know, but neither do you!--they put him on the DL right away, as opposed to day-to-day status. But you're still ready rip off snark about CT scans before every game, ala Pete Abraham.

Thank you, Dr. Frist.

[radsoxfan]

Is edema always swelling exterior to the rib cage, or could this refer to something internal as well? I'm remembering past discussions in which the most serious issue arising from rib fractures would be some bone impact on the lungs or other internal organ.

The term edema just means swelling, and has no localizing connotation on its own. But soft tissue swelling in this case almost assuredly refers to the muscles and tissue of his rib cage. Only displaced rib fractures would cause something "internal". Ellsbury has never had displaced rib fractures even from his initial injury, and they certainly are not displaced after 4 months of healing. So I'm pretty sure there is no lung or internal organ issue here. Plus, if there was, I'm quite confident Ellsbury and Boras would be sure to let us know.

So let's review. Up above you (admittedly in reactionary mode) call Ellsbury a pussy and suggest he be shipped to San Diego.

Now we've got a second hand pathology report identifying some findings in vague language, you haven't seen the films, and there's no way to determine the correlation between physical trauma and the subjective discomfort it's creating. For whatever reason--I don't know, but neither do you!--they put him on the DL right away, as opposed to day-to-day status. But you're still ready rip off snark about CT scans before every game, ala Pete Abraham.

Last time I checked, I wasn't a journalist. My posts have some medical basis of course, but also come out of frustration (as I admitted above). This seems like the proper forum for such comments. If I was being paid by the Globe to report on the team, I think I would choose my words quite differently.

Thank you, Dr. Frist.

Ouch. A guy who gives doctors a bad name. Please take it back

[chechusma]

For any given disease/injury process (i.e. rib fracture, bowel obstruction, sore throat, etc), there is a range of expected outcomes, recovery times, etc. So if someone were to tell me the whole story of their recent bout with pneumonia, or sprained ankle etc.... regardless of the specifics, the first thing that I process is whether the story "makes sense" for the disease or injury. If it doesn't "make sense", then there is a reason why - for example, in the ER, we see people who are trying to score a script for narcotics off of us, or want a note to miss work. Or perhaps the story doesn't fit because they are being abused physically, and don't want to admit it. Or maybe they have a rare disease that no one has diagnosed that causes extremely brittle bones. Regardless of the specifics, it is important (and fairly straightforward) to determine if what the patient is telling you/doing/etc is within the realm of normal.

There is definitely something suspicious about this whole recovery...it just doesn't "make sense" medically. Now whether it's because Ellsbury is a pussy, or he has previously undiagnosed osteogenesis imperfecta (just kidding), or what.... I cannot speculate (though I have my opinions).

But I wonder if we'll ever really find out what's going on... because whatever it is, it's more than rib fractures and re-injuries.

[radsoxfan]

For any given disease/injury process (i.e. rib fracture, bowel obstruction, sore throat, etc), there is a range of expected outcomes, recovery times, etc. So if someone were to tell me the whole story of their recent bout with pneumonia, or sprained ankle etc.... regardless of the specifics, the first thing that I process is whether the story "makes sense" for the disease or injury. If it doesn't "make sense", then there is a reason why - for example, in the ER, we see people who are trying to score a script for narcotics off of us, or want a note to miss work. Or perhaps the story doesn't fit because they are being abused physically, and don't want to admit it. Or maybe they have a rare disease that no one has diagnosed that causes extremely brittle bones. Regardless of the specifics, it is important (and fairly straightforward) to determine if what the patient is telling you/doing/etc is within the realm of normal.

There is definitely something suspicious about this whole recovery...it just doesn't "make sense" medically. Now whether it's because Ellsbury is a pussy, or he has previously undiagnosed osteogenesis imperfecta (just kidding), or what.... I cannot speculate (though I have my opinions).

But I wonder if we'll ever really find out what's going on... because whatever it is, it's more than rib fractures and re-injuries.

Great post. Maybe I didn't explain the reason for my attitude very well, and this sums it up perfectly. My perhaps snarky mocking of the situation isn't because I dislike Ellsbury personally or randomly called him out just for the hell of it. Something in this whole situation doesn't medically "make sense".

It could very well be some rare disease, mental weakness, anger at the team/medical staff, etc. But there has to be some other explanation for what is going on.

I'm curious why though, if you have your opinions, you can't speculate. Or I guess more accurately, why you don't want to. This seems like as good a place as any to throw your opinion out there, especially if you have some helpful personal experience/knowledge behind it. But maybe I'm just saying that because I was so free to speculate myself.

Edited by radsoxfan, 14 August 2010 - 11:48 PM.

[joyofsox]

Francona:

He didn't want to [come out of Friday's game], but it was pretty obvious to me he was hurting.

So maybe he didn't beg out of the game, eh, PeteAbe? Or is Tito lying through his teeth?

Man, I hate the media making shit up. Just report what happens. Save the snarky BS for press box mutterings between pitching changes.

[knucklecup]

It's Dan Shaughnessy-esque to do what Peter Abraham did with this quick, misunderstood, irrational tweet. As much as I hate the injuries that are trying desperately to cripple this season, nothing angers me more than piss poor journalism. Shame on you, Pete.

[Jinhocho]

Francona:

So maybe he didn't beg out of the game, eh, PeteAbe? Or is Tito lying through his teeth?

Man, I hate the media making shit up. Just report what happens. Save the snarky BS for press box mutterings between pitching changes.

Could be different sources - one reporter talks to Tito/he gives statement and the other gets the story from guys in the clubhouse. Doubt he was making it up.

[86spike]

Could be different sources - one reporter talks to Tito/he gives statement and the other gets the story from guys in the clubhouse. Doubt he was making it up.

Wasn't Abraham's comment mid-game? He jumped to a conclusion.

Twitter/blogging once again allows a journo to show the world his ass.

[chechusma]

I'm curious why though, if you have your opinions, you can't speculate. Or I guess more accurately, why you don't want to. This seems like as good a place as any to throw your opinion out there, especially if you have some helpful personal experience/knowledge behind it. But maybe I'm just saying that because I was so free to speculate myself.

You're right, I should have used a different word besides "speculate".

My speculation is that JE is being a big pussy.

I just don't really have enough data to be sure. But that's my guess as well.

[irinmike]

Okay so the guy went to Arizona to do his rehab and some of the players in the clubhouse wondered where he was, and why he was not with the team. However the reason I see that people want to pop off at Ellsbury is because he had the audacity to run into Beltre and break five ribs, as he hustled after a short fly ball. And then it took him just too long, in some Red Sox fan's opinion, to get well enough to swing a bat. The guy has had no luck at all this season, as witnessed Friday night, when he was hustling to first and collided with the pitcher once more injuring his ribs. He is NOT in Drew's category of sitting out games with minor tweaks. He will be in Boston next season and hopefully healthy enough to contribute from day one of the 2011 season.

[joyofsox]

Wasn't Abraham's comment mid-game? He jumped to a conclusion.

Yes. He posted it in the Extra Bases live blog in the middle of the sixth inning. Ellsbury had left in the middle of the 4th, so while it's possible that Pete went out and talked to some sources in those two innings (while still updating the blog with what was going on in the game everyhalf inning), I tend to doubt it. He was using Ellsbury's well-known reputation as a lazy, pain-avoiding whiner (and user of notes in an important press conference) to get a cheap laff.

[P'tucket, rhymes with...]

Great post. Maybe I didn't explain the reason for my attitude very well, and this sums it up perfectly. My perhaps snarky mocking of the situation isn't because I dislike Ellsbury personally or randomly called him out just for the hell of it. Something in this whole situation doesn't medically "make sense".

It could very well be some rare disease, mental weakness, anger at the team/medical staff, etc. But there has to be some other explanation for what is going on.

I'm curious why though, if you have your opinions, you can't speculate. Or I guess more accurately, why you don't want to. This seems like as good a place as any to throw your opinion out there, especially if you have some helpful personal experience/knowledge behind it. But maybe I'm just saying that because I was so free to speculate myself.

OK, OK, I'll take back the Dr. Frist comment--that was pretty low--but the point is this. Whether you like it or not, the opinions of physicians on the board are routinely regarded as more authoritative when a medical issue is in play. But, as you both obviously realize, medicine is invariably (in part) a psychosocial sport as well, and the injury that takes place in a medical vacuum is rare. Making comments about the latter ("he's a pussy" or "his agent put him up to it" or whatever) while referencing the former ("there are no broken ribs protruding from his eye socket" and "these things almost always heal within XX weeks") seems to me to be unfairly stacking the deck against Ellsbury, particularly when your knowledge of the medical findings is often based on the limited info passed on by the sports staff of the Globe or NESN.

[sox junky]

It's interesting to me that just about every physician who reads about this case comes to the same conclusion: something is really fishy here. This is the only valuable thing to be gleaned from this and prior threads similar to it. The posts that just lash out at anyone they believe have wronged Ellsbury (team doctors, Francona, teammates, other doctors who have read the details of the case, media, Red Sox front office, etc) do not add value IMO.

[MHead81]

It's interesting to me that just about every physician who reads about this case comes to the same conclusion: something is really fishy here. This is the only valuable thing to be gleaned from this and prior threads similar to it. The posts that just lash out at anyone they believe have wronged Ellsbury (team doctors, Francona, teammates, other doctors who have read the details of the case, media, Red Sox front office, etc) do not add value IMO.

This. I'll add that it almost seems like (not just here-- the Ellsbury topic is and always has been one with little middle ground) people who choose to defend Ellsbury do so almost blindly without any evidence to do so.

[P'tucket, rhymes with...]

It's interesting to me that just about every physician who reads about this case comes to the same conclusion: something is really fishy here. This is the only valuable thing to be gleaned from this and prior threads similar to it. The posts that just lash out at anyone they believe have wronged Ellsbury (team doctors, Francona, teammates, other doctors who have read the details of the case, media, Red Sox front office, etc) do not add value IMO.

But even if there's something atypical about a particular case, you should be able to justify using "fishy" over the less pejorative "complicated," and "pussy" reflects enitrely on the poster while adding nothing to the group's understanding. I've been following this thread, and other than a very tenuous argument about how playing hurt might affect Ellsbury's arbitration hearings, I have yet to see anything vaguely credible regarding why his absence might be a motivated act geared toward his self-interests. He's come back from this thing twice, and has only gone onto the DL again after collisions involving the area of the injury. He's losing playing time and experience, thus devaluing himself as a commodity. He seems to be aggravating the shit out of his organization and his teammates. I'm a psychologist (with some distant experience in pain management), and I have absolutely no understanding of his personality make-up based on the information available to the public. What is it that you guys know that I keep missing?