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How bad is Bill Hall?


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#1 Sillyhatsonly

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:55 AM

I remember when the Red Sox officially inked Bill Hall to a major league contract that I was optimistic. I realize that I had absolutely no reason to be, but I figured that maybe being around some veterans, and a team that preaches patience at the plate, would bring back some 2006 Bill Hall.

However, I was hoping he would do it from a bench capacity. The moment Bill Hall stepped on the field to fill in for Lazer Show, I lost my shit. That's the thing about Bill Hall, he's like Eric Hinske, if Hinske played the field without a glove. Hall can play just about any position, but plays none of them at a major league level.

Last night was the last straw for me. Me and my friends joked somewhat after that double play debacle that Theo should've been on the horn after that trying to get us Adam Everett to sure up 2nd base defensively till the Lazer Show is back on display.

Granted I am not the biggest fan of Everett's bat, but it's getting to the point where I'm willing to try Jed Lowrie out at 2nd and see how it goes. There can't be a worse option than Hall at 2nd base, right?

In a nutshell, I want to know if I'm crazy/overreacting to the lousy defense of Bill Hall.

#2 vadertime

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:20 AM

Hall has been a savior for this team. Without him we would easily be in 4th place. He is what he is, a utlity guy. And statisically, at least this year, one of the best in the league.

Blaming Hall for last night is absurd when you have a relief pitcher face 4 batters and not get one of them out in the 9th inning.

#3 URI


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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:23 AM

Bill Hall wasn't inked to a contract by the Red Sox. He was traded here for Casey Kotchman. For all his ability to make you lose your shit, the Red Sox are paying $1.25 million.

#4 Sillyhatsonly

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:25 AM

Hall has been a savior for this team. Without him we would easily be in 4th place. He is what he is, a utlity guy. And statisically, at least this year, one of the best in the league.

Blaming Hall for last night is absurd when you have a relief pitcher face 4 batters and not get one of them out in the 9th inning.


I'm not trying to take any of the blame away from Delcarmen at all. I knew he had no business coming in that inning, but figured he'd be able to find a way out of it.

However calling Hall a utility guy is a complete misnomer. He can be a warm body at just about any position on the field, but he can't play anything above Little League defense at any of them.

To make a comparison. Bill Hall is to Fielding, as Trot Nixon is to Hitting Left Handed Pitching.

#5 Sillyhatsonly

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:28 AM

Bill Hall wasn't inked to a contract by the Red Sox. He was traded here for Casey Kotchman. For all his ability to make you lose your shit, the Red Sox are paying $1.25 million.


And That's my bad. Not sure why I thought he was inked considering I remember that trade. But even at 1.25 Mill, I just don't see Bill Hall being a better option at 2nd base than Jed Lowrie.

#6 dwightinright

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:33 PM

But even at 1.25 Mill, I just don't see Bill Hall being a better option at 2nd base than Jed Lowrie.


Well, there was that whole thing about Lowrie being hurt/sick and not able to play everyday at this point...

#7 absintheofmalaise


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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:33 PM

And That's my bad. Not sure why I thought he was inked considering I remember that trade. But even at 1.25 Mill, I just don't see Bill Hall being a better option at 2nd base than Jed Lowrie.

How many times have you seen Lowrie play 2B?

#8 PandaSox

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:38 PM

Hall's error last night was atrocious, but he's been without question one of the more valuable sub players on the team this year. According to FanGraphs, Hall's been a solid defensive player at 2B over the course of his career (7.2 UZR/150 over the course of this year, 40.6 UZR/150 for the Mariners last year). Granted, the error didn't happen at a great time - remember the time that Nick Green threw away the 3rd out in the ninth inning of that game in Seattle last year? - but Hall's been more than serviceable as a utility guy this year. Granted, he doesn't hit well against left-handed pitching, but that's why Tito should be working Lowrie into the lineup more and more often as the season drags on. And neither of these players can come close to matching Pedroia's production at the plate and on the field, but that's what happens when you lose your All-Star second baseman for six weeks: it sucks.

#9 Sillyhatsonly

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:39 PM

How many times have you seen Lowrie play 2B?


He has played a handful of games at 2B, and has shown that he's got some above average defensive skills at SS and 3b. Quite honestly, I don't see how anyone can look at Bill Hall playing ANY position on the field and then look at his stats at the plate, and think that there is a redeeming quality about this guy, other than the fact that he's a warm body at a bunch of positions.

Edited by Sillyhatsonly, 23 July 2010 - 12:40 PM.


#10 Sillyhatsonly

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:42 PM

Hall's error last night was atrocious, but he's been without question one of the more valuable sub players on the team this year. According to FanGraphs, Hall's been a solid defensive player at 2B over the course of his career (7.2 UZR/150 over the course of this year, 40.6 UZR/150 for the Mariners last year). Granted, the error didn't happen at a great time - remember the time that Nick Green threw away the 3rd out in the ninth inning of that game in Seattle last year? - but Hall's been more than serviceable as a utility guy this year. Granted, he doesn't hit well against left-handed pitching, but that's why Tito should be working Lowrie into the lineup more and more often as the season drags on. And neither of these players can come close to matching Pedroia's production at the plate and on the field, but that's what happens when you lose your All-Star second baseman for six weeks: it sucks.


I do agree that, of all his positions, 2B is the only one Hall can field in any fashion. However to call him a Utility player is a complete misnomer. He is so atrocious in the field at 3B, OF, that it's more likely that he costs you a run in the field than he gets you a run with the bat.

#11 smastroyin


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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:58 PM

This thread would have been more useful if the question were asked in the "how fat is your mom?" style and was full of one-liners.

Because honestly, you can't be serious. He has been fine in the OF after a couple of quirky days figuring out what to do about the wall. He has been adequate in very limited SS time. He has been fine at 2B. He made a bad error. It sucks for last night but in the grand scheme - big effing whoop. I'm sure you also think that Beltre is useless in the field and that JD Drew is always injured and doesn't drive in enough runs.

#12 anastn

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:09 PM

Blaming Hall for last night is absurd when you have a relief pitcher face 4 batters and not get one of them out in the 9th inning.


If Scutaro doesn't boot that grounder Delcarmen gets 2 outs in those 4 batters and we chalk it up to rust. Blaming Delcarmen for Scutaro's error is absurd.

#13 Sillyhatsonly

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:14 PM

This thread would have been more useful if the question were asked in the "how fat is your mom?" style and was full of one-liners.

Because honestly, you can't be serious. He has been fine in the OF after a couple of quirky days figuring out what to do about the wall. He has been adequate in very limited SS time. He has been fine at 2B. He made a bad error. It sucks for last night but in the grand scheme - big effing whoop. I'm sure you also think that Beltre is useless in the field and that JD Drew is always injured and doesn't drive in enough runs.


If you honestly believe that Bill Hall is adequate at all those positions then you haven't been watching the games. He is a terrible athlete in the field, plain and simple. And I <3 J.D. Drew and Adrian Beltre is my hero.

#14 donchoi

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:24 PM

No one is proclaiming Bill Hall to be the team's savior here... But I agree that without him, we're looking at a painful half a season of Tug Hulett/Angel Sanchez and probably a couple of more losses. You have to give him credit as being one of the better utility men in the Majors this year.

He can field 2B and 3B adequately, and he's passable in LF. I wouldn't trust him anywhere else on a semi-regular basis.

#15 Sillyhatsonly

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:29 PM

<br>No one is proclaiming Bill Hall to be the team's savior here... But I agree that without him, we're looking at a painful half a season of Tug Hulett/Angel Sanchez and probably a couple of more losses. You have to give him credit as being one of the better utility men in the Majors this year.<br><br>He can field 2B and 3B adequately, and he's passable in LF. I wouldn't trust him anywhere else on a semi-regular basis.<br>

<br><br>I'm willing to admit that I'm probably beating my head against a brick wall here due to Bill Hall being a player that I just wouldn't want on my team. If I have a utility guy, I'd rather have a Willie Bloomquist type that can play a lot of&nbsp;positions, and plays them all well, and I'm not expecting him to pop any dingers, just to get on base once in a while, something that Bill Hall has done okay this year, but has almost no track record of doing on a even semi-consistent&nbsp;basis. In most seasons his OBP has been under .300.

#16 WenZink

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:31 PM

Bill Hall is fine. 95 OPS+ and the ability to play every position but catcher. In fact, when there's a flood in the clubhouse, Tito just shoves a broomstick up his ass and uses him to mop the floor.

What's not fine is that circumstances have dictated that Bill Hall has played in 70% of the Sox games this year. That's not fine, but it's not the fault of Billy Hall.

#17 Jack Rabbit Slim

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:46 PM

Not that Bill Hall is all that bad as a utility guy, but can't Lowrie play 2nd base? He has to better defensively than Hall and better offensively than Patterson

#18 Sillyhatsonly

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:48 PM

Thanks for all the pro-Hall talk here. I really needed to just hear some positives, I tend to get stagnant with my views since there aren't a lot of baseball fans to talk with where I'm at right now.

And for the record, I was one of the people calling for Pokey Reese back in '04. So I guess that should be queue to shut up.

#19 WenZink

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:49 PM

Not that Bill Hall is all that bad as a utility guy, but can't Lowrie play 2nd base? He has to better defensively than Hall and better offensively than Patterson



Lowrie can play 2nd base. But, unlike Hall,he can't play the outfield AND play 2nd base.

If Ellsbury were back and/or Cameron wasn't playing with a truss, then Hall's versatility would not be so important.... but given the rash of injuries to the OF and to Pedroia, Hall has been pretty valuable.

#20 Jack Rabbit Slim

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:58 PM

Lowrie can play 2nd base. But, unlike Hall,he can't play the outfield AND play 2nd base.

If Ellsbury were back and/or Cameron wasn't playing with a truss, then Hall's versatility would not be so important.... but given the rash of injuries to the OF and to Pedroia, Hall has been pretty valuable.


Hall's skill set has been very valuable this year, but while both are on the roster I would rather see Lowrie starting the majority of games until Pedey comes back

#21 WenZink

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 02:13 PM

Hall's skill set has been very valuable this year, but while both are on the roster I would rather see Lowrie starting the majority of games until Pedey comes back


Just a guess, but with Lowrie just coming back after his mono, they want to ease him back into playing. Playing one night at SS, and the next night at 2nd might have been deemed too much in his first 2 games back. Also not sure how much infield practice he's taken at 2nd. The fact that they used him as a pinch hitter last night (he and Patterson pinch hit, in sequence, for Hall and Cash) but then opted to have Patterson stay in the game at 2nd, was another hint that they want to ease Lowrie into action.

Of course, the Patterson move worked out pretty well, although when was facing the lefty, Olsen, in the 13th, I was pissed that they didn't have Lowrie's switch-hitting... until that is, Patterson drilled one into the gap.

But with Lowrie, Patterson AND Hall on the roster, it seems like one too many once Ellsbury comes back. And I don't see any chance in hell Mike Lowell ever gets back on the 25 man roster. (unless they have injuries in hell.)

#22 lexrageorge

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 08:16 PM

Wow, this thread has the potential to be one of the worst here in the Sandbox in a long time.

Hall's OPS right now is not only percentage points within his career OPS of 0.750 (decent for bench guy), it's also 100 points better than the immortal Casey Kotchman, the guy on the roster he's replaced. His fielding is listed in baseball reference as being at the average MLB level.

The reality is that if your bench player is going to play a lot of innings due to injuries to other players, the team is better off with Bill Hall's 0.750 OPS than Kevin Cash's pitcher-like OPS batting every day. Take A-Rod and Jeter out of the Yankees and they're not in first place either.

#23 inATLwithEdgar

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:56 PM

Wow, this thread has the potential to be one of the worst here in the Sandbox in a long time.


Yes, yes it does. Closed Thread....

#24 rundugrun

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:57 PM

He has played a handful of games at 2B, and has shown that he's got some above average defensive skills at SS and 3b. Quite honestly, I don't see how anyone can look at Bill Hall playing ANY position on the field and then look at his stats at the plate, and think that there is a redeeming quality about this guy, other than the fact that he's a warm body at a bunch of positions.


He's a backup who plays many positions and according to what I've seen has been league average at 2B this year. He also occasionally hits bombs.

#25 greek_gawd_of_walks


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Posted 25 July 2010 - 11:22 AM

If Bill Hall didn't have lapses in the field, I don't think we would be "lamenting" him. A guy who hits for decent power and plays anywhere he is asked coming off your bench is always welcomed, even if he does boot the occasional routine play. Bill Hall is an unsung hero of this team. This is a terrible thread and gives an even worse name to all Lurkers.

Edited by greek_gawd_of_walks, 25 July 2010 - 11:22 AM.


#26 AimingForYoko


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Posted 25 July 2010 - 11:57 PM

If Bill Hall didn't have lapses in the field, I don't think we would be "lamenting" him. A guy who hits for decent power and plays anywhere he is asked coming off your bench is always welcomed, even if he does boot the occasional routine play. Bill Hall is an unsung hero of this team. This is a terrible thread and gives an even worse name to all Lurkers.



I agree with this.

Don't get me wrong, I want to kill him at times but he has absolutely been useful and times a godsend. And as long as he's not in the outfield ever I'm fine.