379 replies to this topic

[johnmd20]

I enjoyed the World Cup this year immensely, there were some very good games and even the teams who didn't make the finals(like Germany, Ghana, and Uruguay) were fantastic to watch. I'm happy Spain won, even if I wanted to see the Oranje pull it out. They really were the team who has been best for the past two years. They are cold blooded, living and taking the trophy by the 1-0 victory.

I am sorry it's over but I watched a lot of Soccer in the past 4 weeks and I'm glad I did. Bring on Brazil in 2014. . . .maybe the US can put on a better show in 4 years.

[Philip Jeff Frye]

I bolded the part that defines why your 3rd World line does not qualify as a joke.

Not my joke, just trying to explain somebody else's.

Anyway, very impressive that Spain did what they did with arguably their best player in Torres basically MIA. They weren't as much fun to watch as at Euro 2008, when Xavi in particular put on a show of remarkable passing, but they sure got the job done. Excellent work by Casillas today too.

[ent5]

Uruguay's Diego Forlan wins golden ball award as World Cup's best player

Germany's Thomas Müller has won the Golden Boot after finishing as the World Cup 2010 top scorer( he finished with same number of goals as David Villa, but with more assists) and been named as the young player of the tournament. ..
‎

[Spacemans Bong]

The unemployment rate in Andalucia is something like 30% and it was the poorest region of Spain to start with. Cruel joke, but not that far off the mark.

anyway, surprise surprise, people in holland are sad! my uncle (who is dutch) yelled "I can't fucking believe it!" in Dutch and stomped off when Iniesta scored. The excitement before the game was unbelievable, with people in orange all over the place even when I went for a walk at 9 in the morning. I've got some pictures of the orangeness I'll try and put up when I get home.

[kenneycb]

Nice move by Iniesta with the "Dani Jarque siempre con nosotros" undershirt. Weird parallel that they won Euros after Puerta died.

I also hope bad things happen to Mark Van Bommel.

[Spacemans Bong]

Nice move by Iniesta with the "Dani Jarque siempre con nosotros" undershirt. Weird parallel that they won Euros after Puerta died.

I also hope bad things happen to Mark Van Bommel.

OK, I feel a little better about tonight.

[kenneycb]

Anyone know what the shirt Ramos was wearing during the medal ceremony? Had a picture on it and a number on the back but didn't get a good enough look. IIRC he had a Puerta shirt on for the Euros final so maybe that again.

Edit: Twitter says my theory about Puerta is correct.

Edited by kenneycb, 11 July 2010 - 06:10 PM.

[ossie schreckengost]

tomorrow will be brutal.

no football anymore, a rest-day at the tour de france, the fucking all-star-break, and quite the alcoholic hangover.

shitsville galore

[Zososoxfan]

Holy fuck, what a boring game. I dozed off at the end of the 1st half. Don't know how the dropkick against Xabi didn't draw a red card. People here are hating on Webb, but considering the context, I thought he did a decent job - he controlled the game by dishing out yellows that had no long term implications and most importantly, didn't blow a call on any goals/potential goals (goal kick/corner argument aside, lineman at fault too). I was really surprised to see the Dutch not try and match Spain's technical approach, but with their average size advantage, I can see why they were tempted to do so. If they had maintained their style, I think their physicality would've come through in their play regardless, but justice was served in the end. I love Barcelona, but this Spanish team's style and floppiness pisses me off to no end (even though I was rooting for them).

I think this tournament will be remembered for a few things - Spain overcoming their past, Forlan, the new German attacking style, Dunga's failed attempt to stifle Brazilian creativity, vuvuzelas, the Jabulani, African teams failing (other than Ghana of course), and the return of Diego M. to the international spotlight for the right reasons. I think this tournament definitely doesn't compare to others and at some level, I do blame the Jabulani.

Whether the physics of the ball were the difference or not, players couldn't control their shooting all tournament and scoring was down. 145 goals in 64 games for an average of 2.27 per game. Considering that the lowest average for a WC was Italy in '90, with 2.21, I'd say that sucks for us fans.

[MentalDisabldLst]

I agree. I watched the game with about 30 rabid football fans from all over Europe and they all agree that Webb did a good-to-great job in a VERY tough-to-ref game. The only thing they really objected to - besides the blown corner/goal kick - was the red card that may have proven decisive. From his angle, Webb couldn't really tell for sure, but it's definitely true that the Dutch defender was the last man and that there was contact, and had there not been contact there would have been a shot on goal. It was sort of an accumulation, too - I think every player on the Dutch side got a yellow. Even the keeper, for arguing, right?

Webb made a lot of good non-calls, too, refusing to get tempted by the flopping and trying to keep some semblance of flow in the game.

I won't call the Spain team a bunch of floppers, either, certainly not on par with the Italians or the French. In 90 minutes vs Germany, they may have flopped twice, but it was a smooth and beautiful game start to finish. Here, they're up against a team of floppers in Holland, and after a full half of getting brutalized, it looks like they switched tacks. But I saw relatively few actual flops, just some outrage at not getting calls after some 50/50 contact.

[ethangl]

The only thing they really objected to - besides the blown corner/goal kick - was the red card that may have proven decisive.

De Jong driving his studs into Alonso's ribs struck me as something that should have been dealt with a little more severely.

[David Laurila]

Spain may well have been the better team. but the player who scored the winning goal could easily have been carded for diving 3-4 times. He may go home a hero, but in reality he is something far from.

[URI]

Yeah, I'm sure the Spanish fans sure think less of a player you don't know the name of.

The whining about diving from people who don't give a shit about this sport 47 out of 48 months of the year is comical. There was not one time Iniesta should have been carded for diving (he should have been carded for knocking van Bommel on his ass, and again for removing his shirt). If you think Iniesta was the worst on the field in terms of going down easy or looking for calls, then you don't know what you were watching.

Iniesta will probably get the Spanish-equivalent of knighthood. I'm sure his legacy will be tarnished by an American wagging his finger on the internet 3700 miles away. Nice turn of a phrase though, Faulkner.

[kenneycb]

Yeah, I'm sure the Spanish fans sure think less of a player you don't know the name of.

The whining about diving from people who don't give a shit about this sport 47 out of 48 months of the year is comical. There was not one time Iniesta should have been carded for diving (he should have been carded for knocking van Bommel on his ass, and again for removing his shirt). If you think Iniesta was the worst on the field in terms of going down easy or looking for calls, then you don't know what you were watching.

Iniesta will probably get the Spanish-equivalent of knighthood. I'm sure his legacy will be tarnished by an American wagging his finger on the internet 3700 miles away. Nice turn of a phrase though, Faulkner.

Nitpick but he did get carded for removing his shirt in his celebration, which was somewhat reminiscent of his celebration in Chelsea in 2009.

[URI]

Nitpick but he did get carded for removing his shirt in his celebration, which was somewhat reminiscent of his celebration in Chelsea in 2009.

I know he did. I'm talking about the times he actually should have been carded, not the "3-4" times he nebulously should have in the eyes of people who don't know better.

[filthywater49]

[The Belly Itcher]

Yeah, I'm sure the Spanish fans sure think less of a player you don't know the name of.

The whining about diving from people who don't give a shit about this sport 47 out of 48 months of the year is comical. There was not one time Iniesta should have been carded for diving (he should have been carded for knocking van Bommel on his ass, and again for removing his shirt). If you think Iniesta was the worst on the field in terms of going down easy or looking for calls, then you don't know what you were watching.

Iniesta will probably get the Spanish-equivalent of knighthood. I'm sure his legacy will be tarnished by an American wagging his finger on the internet 3700 miles away. Nice turn of a phrase though, Faulkner.

Why exactly is it comical? Anyone can can have an opinion, whether you watch it frequently or not. The facts are the diving was talked about during the tournament-- it was perceived to be as pretty annoying by a substantial proportion of people, and they weren't all first-timers.

Edited by The Belly Itcher, 11 July 2010 - 10:44 PM.

[Tony the Pony]

Haven't read shit in this thread, but

My dad said today I cried in 74 - for weeks
I was angry in 78 -was in a cell for days
now - I'm getting used to it

74 and 78 were different eras, football has gone south for a long time, and this is all OK- I'm getting used to it

I was looking for some Spain fans in Boston to hit on their mouths, instead I got a foursome of Germans that couldn't beliwvw I was wearing a Feijenord jersey in public. Back in Deustchland they would kill you, you want to take a first shot? No.

Fuckin krauts.

At least they didn't win

[Tony the Pony]

tomorrow will be brutal.

no football anymore, a rest-day at the tour de france, the fucking all-star-break, and quite the alcoholic hangover.

shitsville galore

This

Can't wait for th eTourmalet x2

Zosoxfan is a tool

happy football.

Pauli im 1., Millwall too, and Antwerp is still alive

[URI]

Why exactly is it comical? Anyone can can have an opinion, whether you watch it frequently or not. The facts are the diving was talked about during the tournament-- it was perceived to be as pretty annoying by a substantial proportion of people, and they weren't all first-timers.

It's comical because it's funny?

I find it funny that the people who don't follow the sport in any meaningful way use hyperbole (Iniesta should have been carded 3-4 times for diving) to speak out against players overreacting to the fouls.

If you don't think that's funny, then you need your irony bone fixed.

[Nick Kaufman]

[Curtis_Lesspanic]

Why exactly is it comical? Anyone can can have an opinion, whether you watch it frequently or not. The facts are the diving was talked about during the tournament-- it was perceived to be as pretty annoying by a substantial proportion of people, and they weren't all first-timers.

What really was comical was Iniesta collapsing to the ground when a defender momentary grabbed his shoulder. He literally let his legs just fly out from under him and that sends a guy off. In a ideal world, Iniesta gets a card as well for the flop, which should have been his second but some how his retaliation foul earlier in the game wasn't carded.
The problem, to me, is there is no cultural shame in being a flopping fraud and on the field it consistently rewarded by officials.

And I have heard multiple talking heads comment that the levels of diving has been pretty extreme.

[Curtis_Lesspanic]

It's comical because it's funny?

I find it funny that the people who don't follow the sport in any meaningful way use hyperbole (Iniesta should have been carded 3-4 times for diving) to speak out against players overreacting to the fouls.

If you don't think that's funny, then you need your irony bone fixed.

Apparently I need my irony bone fixed and about 36 months added to my calender

[teddykgb]

I agree. I watched the game with about 30 rabid football fans from all over Europe and they all agree that Webb did a good-to-great job in a VERY tough-to-ref game. The only thing they really objected to - besides the blown corner/goal kick - was the red card that may have proven decisive. From his angle, Webb couldn't really tell for sure, but it's definitely true that the Dutch defender was the last man and that there was contact, and had there not been contact there would have been a shot on goal. It was sort of an accumulation, too - I think every player on the Dutch side got a yellow. Even the keeper, for arguing, right?

Webb made a lot of good non-calls, too, refusing to get tempted by the flopping and trying to keep some semblance of flow in the game.

I won't call the Spain team a bunch of floppers, either, certainly not on par with the Italians or the French. In 90 minutes vs Germany, they may have flopped twice, but it was a smooth and beautiful game start to finish. Here, they're up against a team of floppers in Holland, and after a full half of getting brutalized, it looks like they switched tacks. But I saw relatively few actual flops, just some outrage at not getting calls after some 50/50 contact.

did you watch the game with a bunch of people from all over europe who just happened to be rooting for spain? I feel like we didn't see the same game. IMO Webb made a gamble that being card happy early would calm the game down, but as it often does, it sent the game in the other direction as players were being rewarded for flopping and acting. When refs start showing cards left and right, players start simulating. A good talking to on Van Bommel and some of the other players early on may have cut down on all the bullshit diving that was happening yesterday. I think you could make a convincing case that 4 or 5 of the cards awarded were unnecessary, and obviously de jong could have very easily been sent off. I just think Webb got far too involved too early, which may have been a calculated risk, but in the end I'm not sure that it worked as he wasn't able to triage the dives from the fouls correctly. Missing that deflection late in the game is a big mistake at that level, and we never got to see a replay to know if Elia was fouled, although i suspect he wasn't.

[Nick Kaufman]

good talking to on Van Bommel and some of the other players early on may have cut down on all the bullshit diving that was happening yesterday.

What? I am sure that a good talking is all Van Bommel needed to change his ways. That's nonsense. The Dutch made it deliberately physical and Webb was right to show cards.

The problem is a lot of tactical "professional" fouls which aren't rough enough to merit a card, but which aim to stop a counter or a player getting free. These are the main culprits for interrupting the flow of the game.

Other than that, flopping is also a serious problem and video replay used by a fourth official can be a good remedy for it.

[David Laurila]

I find it funny that the people who don't follow the sport in any meaningful way use hyperbole (Iniesta should have been carded 3-4 times for diving) to speak out against players overreacting to the fouls.

Ronaldo has famously accused Iniesta of being a diver. While I apparently don't follow the sport in a meaninful way [whatever that means] maybe his opinion has some merit?

I watched yesterday's game in a bar -- the crowd seemed roughly 60-40 in Holland's favor -- and shouts of "Get up!" happened more than once with Iniesta writhing around on the pitch after minimal contact. The man is a great player, but I'm not the only one who feels he is also a poor actor.

[kenneycb]

The fat Ronaldo or the flopping Ronaldo?

[Infield Infidel]

Other than that, flopping is also a serious problem and video replay used by a fourth official can be a good remedy for it.

There's little a fourth official can do when the call is made and the team quick kicks the free kick.
There's not enough time to alert the ref to change the call or give/not give a card.

The only suggestion that I think could work is post game fines and cards (which I know means little for a final).

Webb was certainly card happy early, which made him have to keep the card in his pocket in the second half on some calls, since he knew the impact would be severe. I've found that with rough play, only carding obvious offenses and giving firm warnings to borderline calls in the first half, then getting card happy, carding borderline calls to start the second half works better. I'm aware of the inconsistency from half to half, but you have to back up the earlier warnings.

But I don't think there was anything Webb could do to stop Oranje from playing a very physical game. And it's not a ref's job to stop a team from executing their game plan. He called them as he saw them early, but then had to bite his tongue later (de Jong's crosskick, for example)

Van Bommell:TAKE NO PRISONERS

Edited by Infield Infidel, 12 July 2010 - 09:53 AM.

[Ahriman]

Van Bommell:TAKE NO PRISONERS

van Bommel is a great man. A tower of pure evil, patrolling the midfield with elbows and pestilence for all.

Truly a winning player, though. From his start at PSV (captain for life), to Barca and Bayern, van Bommel has elevated his club's play.

[MarkInLondon]

From the first couple of minutes, both sides were guilty of flopping/diving - call it what you will. They both also seemed to be screaming in pain at the slightest touch - then miraculously recovering once the necessary free kick awarded and YC brandished.

It's truly pathetic.

Tactics-wise, Holland seemed to be channeling Leeds Utd circa 1970.

Edited by MarkInLondon, 12 July 2010 - 10:26 AM.

[BigSoxFan]

From the first couple of minutes, both sides were guilty of flopping/diving - call it what you will. They both also seemed to be screaming in pain at the slightest touch - then miraculously recovering once the necessary free kick awarded and YC brandished.

It's truly pathetic.

Tactics-wise, Holland seemed to be channeling Leeds Utd circa 1970.

I'd say my favorite play from yesterday's game was when Iniesta tripped himself, flopped to the ground, and then writhed in pain. Seeing stuff like that is a big turnoff to this casual fan. I can accept that flopping is part of the game but it just got to be too excessive.

[teddykgb]

What? I am sure that a good talking is all Van Bommel needed to change his ways. That's nonsense. The Dutch made it deliberately physical and Webb was right to show cards.

The problem is a lot of tactical "professional" fouls which aren't rough enough to merit a card, but which aim to stop a counter or a player getting free. These are the main culprits for interrupting the flow of the game.

Other than that, flopping is also a serious problem and video replay used by a fourth official can be a good remedy for it.

Come on. Refs do this all the time. Of course it wasn't going to transform him into a totally different player, but there weren't a lot of warnings issued by the ref, he just went right into the cards immediately and that's the kind of decision you can't go back on. Maybe it would have allowed the Dutch to play more physical, I don't know, but I just prefer for the refs to try to settle the game without cards before going to the disciplinary action.

I do agree that the amount of cards is artificially inflated by "professional" fouls and even "technical" cards. Player dissent and time wasting cards are justified and Webb was right to give them, even if he was justifiably being accosted. Really, I just think he created a situation where flopping was advantageous, which is probably still OK if you can do a good job of sorting out the flops from the fouls, but he just wasn't able to do that. As the game wore on, Spain really exploited the amount of cards that had piled up and earned a few that were totally unjustified. The problem with giving a card is that you set a precedent for the rest of the match you and make the players indignant when you don't stick to it.

[Tony C]

let's face it, if de jong's flying kung fu kick had been awarded the red it deserved, that would have quieted both sides right down -- the dutch couldn't have afforded to walk a line and the Spanish wouldn't have felt the need to flop.

i mean, if I was Spain I would have been diving (and, to be clear, even though they did dive some, they were no where near the level of the Dutch cunts), too. what else to do when you're getting beat up and the Dutch aren't paying a price.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

let's face it, if de jong's flying kung fu kick had been awarded the red it deserved, that would have quieted both sides right down -- the dutch couldn't have afforded to walk a line and the Spanish wouldn't have felt the need to flop.

i mean, if I was Spain I would have been diving (and, to be clear, even though they did dive some, they were no where near the level of the Dutch cunts), too. what else to do when you're getting beat up and the Dutch aren't paying a price.

This is the truth.



Why wasn't this a red card? Seems clear enough.

It's odd is wasn't called as a red, because Webb tried from the beginning of the game to keep the physical play down by handing out yellows like Halloween candy.

[filthywater49]

i mean, if I was Spain I would have been diving (and, to be clear, even though they did dive some, they were no where near the level of the Dutch cunts), too. what else to do when you're getting beat up and the Dutch aren't paying a price.

Agreed. The diving against previous opponents (whose strategies weren't just to take the axe to them all game long) was still existent but was very much the exception to the rule. Just look at the Germany game.

It's not like Spain could really respond physically against NED, they don't have enough mugs to go out and do that dirty work. What else are the gonna do? We saw what happened when Robben didn't go down. It might have cost them the World Cup.

Also, LOL at Ronaldo calling anyone a diver.

Edited by filthywater49, 12 July 2010 - 11:41 AM.

[filthywater49]

This is the truth.



Why wasn't this a red card? Seems clear enough.

It's odd is wasn't called as a red, because Webb tried from the beginning of the game to keep the physical play down by handing out yellows like Halloween candy.

It's possible that Webb didn't really see what happened and thought it was a knee or simply a high-foot that Alonso was embellishing.

[Shelterdog]

I'm not sure what the solution is but it seems to me that the rules don't give the ref the flexibility to impose a fairly harsh but not incredibly harsh penalty. A yellow card really seems to mean shit compared to just granting a free kick unless a player manages to get two (obviously missing a game if you get two has some deterrent effect). But a red card is a huge penalty, one of the biggest penalties in any sport: it is reasonably likely to determines the winner because playing 11 on 10 is so hard. Likewise, a free kick is nice but not incredibly helpful over most of the field but a penalty kick leads to a goal 80% of the time, and that 1 goal is such a big deal in the game these days.

The lack of an intermediate penalty may have let Mudd understandably if incorrectly refusing to issue red cards after blatant penalties in the first half because even if the cards were deserved, do you really want to be the ref who gave one team the title? It also makes refs very reluctant to call a penalty in the penalty box, which leads to quite a bit of pushing and shoving.

Now, to be the ugly American and say "this is how to improve the most popular game in the world; I know, I've seen 15 games this month", perhaps you could tinker with the rules to make a yellow card harsher, a red card less harsh, and a penalty in the penalty area less damaging unless it's a really severe penalty. For example, you could let the team move the ball 5m in any direction after a yellow card, you could let a team continue to play 11 on 11 after a red card but kick the player out and give the other team a penalty kick, and you could simply allow a free kick from 15 or 20 m rather than a penalty kick if the defending team fouled but didn't earn a card on a play in the penalty area.

Edited by Shelterdog, 12 July 2010 - 12:02 PM.

[filthywater49]

I'm not sure what the solution is but it seems to me that the rules don't give the ref the flexibility to impose a fairly harsh but not incredibly harsh penalty. A yellow card really seems to mean shit compared to just granting a free kick unless a player manages to get two (obviously missing a game if you get two has some deterrent effect). But a red card is a huge penalty, one of the biggest penalties in any sport: it is reasonably likely to determines the winner because playing 11 on 10 is so hard. Likewise, a free kick is nice but not incredibly helpful over most of the field but a penalty kick leads to a goal 80% of the time, and that 1 goal is such a big deal in the game these days.

The lack of an intermediate penalty may have let Mudd understandably if incorrectly refusing to issue red cards after blatant penalties in the first half because even if the cards were deserved, do you really want to be the ref who gave one team the title? It also makes refs very reluctant to call a penalty in the penalty box, which leads to quite a bit of pushing and shoving.

Now, to be the ugly American and say "this is how to improve the most popular game in the world; I know, I've seen 15 games this month", perhaps you could tinker with the rules to make a yellow card harsher, a red card less harsh, and a penalty in the penalty area less damaging unless it's a really severe penalty. For example, you could let the team move the ball 5m in any direction after a yellow card, you could let a team continue to play 11 on 11 after a red card but kick the player out and give the other team a penalty kick, and you could simply allow a free kick from 15 or 20 m rather than a penalty kick if the defending team fouled but didn't earn a card on a play in the penalty area.

Honestly, a sending off is usually not the death knell it would be in sport such as basketball, hockey, or football. It's still a big deal, but it's also not an automatic loss most of the time. As far as the penalty via red card idea, I'd have to think that in most situations, most teams would actually rather play with ten men for half a game then to spot the other side a goal.

[MarkInLondon]

It's possible that Webb didn't really see what happened and thought it was a knee or simply a high-foot that Alonso was embellishing.

One day a player is going to scream like a girl on being tackled, and the ref is going to think 'Oh. not again - get up you big Jessie', and wave play on, playing the advantage. A couple of minutes later they'll go back and find the player has passed out with the pain and has swallowed his tongue. Eventually they'll revive him, but the loss of oxygen to his brain has turned him into a vegetable.

If it happens, I hope it's Ronaldo.

[Shelterdog]

Honestly, a sending off is usually not the death knell it would be in sport such as basketball, hockey, or football. It's still a big deal, but it's also not an automatic loss most of the time. As far as the penalty via red card idea, I'd have to think that in most situations, most teams would actually rather play with ten men for half a game then to spot the other side a goal.

With five minutes to go, you'd obviously rather be a man down than concede a penalty kick. I'm not sure about what you'd do with 70 minutes. It's really an empirical question; I'd guess the expected value of a man advantage is something like a goal every 45 minutes, while the expected value over a penalty kick is about .75 goals. Perhaps you let the fouled team make the decision?

[nvalvo]

I agree. I watched the game with about 30 rabid football fans from all over Europe and they all agree that Webb did a good-to-great job in a VERY tough-to-ref game. The only thing they really objected to - besides the blown corner/goal kick - was the red card that may have proven decisive. From his angle, Webb couldn't really tell for sure, but it's definitely true that the Dutch defender was the last man and that there was contact, and had there not been contact there would have been a shot on goal. It was sort of an accumulation, too - I think every player on the Dutch side got a yellow. Even the keeper, for arguing, right?

Webb made a lot of good non-calls, too, refusing to get tempted by the flopping and trying to keep some semblance of flow in the game.

I won't call the Spain team a bunch of floppers, either, certainly not on par with the Italians or the French. In 90 minutes vs Germany, they may have flopped twice, but it was a smooth and beautiful game start to finish. Here, they're up against a team of floppers in Holland, and after a full half of getting brutalized, it looks like they switched tacks. But I saw relatively few actual flops, just some outrage at not getting calls after some 50/50 contact.

I want to second MDL/MDL's friends' opinion about Webb. He did a good job in a tough, tough game.

My favorite part of the game? When Iniesta flipped Van Bommel, after the umpteenth episode of Van Bommel's bullshit.

[Nick Kaufman]

Pepe Reina, what charisma! Sorry, couldn't find english translation.

[cjdmadcow]

I don't have sound on my PC at work, I don't speak Spanish anyway (or Greek?) but that looks fantastic. Pepe is completely nuts, but what a character. I guess he's one of the few that would have had any energy left, not getting any playing time! I didn't realise we had such an entertainer in the Liverpool goal.

[kenneycb]

The best is when he brings up CESC at the 3:15ish mark and Pique and Puyol put a Barça jersey on him.

[SoxFanInCali]

Yeah, Arsenal fans must have loved that. Although to be fair to CESC, he was ambushed by his teammates.



Contrast that with pictures of Torres, with every big club in the world seemingly after him, wearing a Liverpool scarf during the postgame celebrations.

[Spacemans Bong]

Spain may have won the game, but Holland won the partying.

[Bosoxen]

Spain may have won the game, but Holland won the partying.

Sure hope that keeps them warm at night.

[Spacemans Bong]

Sure hope that keeps them warm at night.

I think you are severely overestimating the amount of agita this game caused in Holland. People overall are pretty happy they got to the final and know Spain is a better team, though everybody thought Howard Webb sucked (which he did, but there's not been a great deal of discussion about how de Jong should have walked). Likewise the English language media seems to be pushing the idea that Holland is embroiled in a debate about whether abandoning "Total Football" (as if the Dutch have played it for 30 years) is the way forward. Language barrier aside, nobody seemed to care. It was about being successful, they were, end of story. Van Marwijk and Gio are national heroes right now.

Photographic evidence should follow later today, but the party in Amsterdam was pretty special. It made me thought what they would do if they had actually won.

[filthywater49]

I think you are severely overestimating the amount of agita this game caused in Holland. People overall are pretty happy they got to the final and know Spain is a better team, though everybody thought Howard Webb sucked (which he did, but there's not been a great deal of discussion about how de Jong should have walked). Likewise the English language media seems to be pushing the idea that Holland is embroiled in a debate about whether abandoning "Total Football" (as if the Dutch have played it for 30 years) is the way forward. Language barrier aside, nobody seemed to care. It was about being successful, they were, end of story. Van Marwijk and Gio are national heroes right now.

Seconded. They didn't expect to be there and are thrilled that they did so well. The only person who really seems upset about the way they played ("anti-football") is Cruyff, which is nothing new.

[Spacemans Bong]

Seconded. They didn't expect to be there and are thrilled that they did so well. The only person who really seems upset about the way they played ("anti-football") is Cruyff, which is nothing new.

And I think the public opinion on Cruijff in Holland can be summarized by my uncle: "Become bondscoach, then". I think a lot of people outside Amsterdam (where he's still God) just think of him as a guy who could probably still be a very good national team coach but is ducking the responsibility.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 14 July 2010 - 03:26 PM.