379 replies to this topic

[OilCanShotTupac]

Spain, or the Netherlands?

Either way, a first-time champion will be crowned.

Have at it.

[mikeford]

Long live the glorious and mighty Oranje!

[SoxFanInCali]

The Dutch have had several more defensive gaffes than Spain have. They've gotten away with it up until now, but Spain is a tough matchup for them.

[sleepyjose03]

I'd love to see the Netherlands beat Spain, but I'm not optimistic.


That being said, I will be waiting to hear the prediction of Paul the Octopus before making any rash decisions.....

[Zomp]

I'll be rooting for the Dutch, but if Spain play the same formation and personnel on Sunday (though I could see Silva for Pedro) they'll win. Their possession is just too methodical and I can't see the Dutch (who will play the same as Germany did) counter attacking Spain to much effect.

I hope I'm wrong. Again, I'll be the kiss of death to the Dutch team.

[Bosoxen]

My brother is in Barcelona so I'm really rooting for him to get the chance to live the party of his life. Not that I wouldn't have rooted for Spain anyway but that doesn't hurt.

Vamos España!

[Maalox]

Historical precedent notwithstanding, I think Spain keeps the Dutch down this time.

BTW, after the media talk about African teams looking to win a World Cup in South Africa, has anyone mentioned the irony of the Dutch making the final? And getting not insignificant South African support?

(Granted, Holland and England would have been even funnier.)

[Hendu's Gait]

Spain's got the better looking females, but I'm rooting for these guys:

[nvalvo]

In the game we all just watched, I was really impressed at the way that Spain remained within their own game. They played Germany just like they played Paraguay and Portugal. The short pass, building from the back, and the possession numbers that produces when done correctly have a way of setting the character of the game. Germany managed a few minutes of great attacking football and a few good chances — especially Kroos' shot that Casillas had to stretch out to knock aside — but Spain tooling around in the box was the story of this match. That the German defenders did a great job holding their shape and not conceding fouls was a big part of why the game was so close.

(And so fucking great to watch. I was by myself at a packed Balompié Café in the Mission in SF, and the crowd was feeling it. I didn't expect all the Central Americans to be rooting for Spain over Germany, but they were. Lots of applause for skillful footwork, and cheers and high-fives for Puyol's goal.)

Nobody thinks the Dutch defense approaches the organization, discipline and skill of the German defense. Spain produced lots of chances against Germany; they'll score many more against Holland. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a PK conceded on some Iniesta run along the goal line.

Edited to add: the Dutch will be depending on midfield players like Van Bommel and de Zeeuw to disrupt Spanish possession. I'm predicting some clumsy challenges especially from Van Bommel, whom I'm beginning to suspect is kind of an asshole following his performance against Uruguay. Would anyone be the least bit surprised to see him sent off?

Edited by nvalvo, 07 July 2010 - 05:06 PM.

[mikeford]

Zeeuw is not going to see the field for the final unless de Jong picks up an early yellow.

[SoxFanInCali]

I will be waiting to hear the prediction of Paul the Octopus before making any rash decisions.....

I think Paul only picks Germany games, so while we will know who will come in 3rd, we're on our own for the final.

Spain's got the better looking females

I don't think either country is hurting too much in this area.

[nvalvo]

Zeeuw is not going to see the field for the final unless de Jong picks up an early yellow.

I had thought de Jong was hurting rather than out for an accumulation of cards, but I see I was mistaken. Thanks.

Well, then, just van Bommel.

[ossie schreckengost]

there are not many rational reasons, for supporting spain vs the dutch. the protestant netherlands were the the fore-runners in freeing huge chunks of europe from the papist clutch.

footballwise it´s a really silly truism, the netherlands&king johan&the70ies.

i even did support them in the final of ´78, when i REALLY did have no horse running. as a football fan i was de-sensitized enough, to not wonder about the argies 6-0 win versus peru, peru sporting quiroga, so far 1 of the best goalies of that tournament (at least the scotch will get what i´m trying to say. you´ll only get him in the spanish version of wiki. i don´t know spanish, but id did watch ramiro quiroga play) http://es.wikipedia....Ramón_Quiroga) äh- it´s strictly apocryphic that one of the argie-killer-colonels @ halftime paid a visit to the peruvian locker room, to cheer them on. who accodingly lost 0-6.


so it was funny stuff what got argentina&its colonels into the final. vs the dutch. whom i hated, until those argies held up the kick-off by making a fuss about the cast on the broken fore-arm of one of the dutch players (here nils has to help me out: it was 1 of the van de kerkof-brothers?). dirty unsportsmanlike argentina.

and in the end the evil won.

..............

i never really did hate the dutch until 2 incidents:

´88: ronald koeman wiping his ass with a german shirt

´90: frank rijkaard getting rudi völler sent off by spitting on him

---------

that´s it. until today.

i´m a sorry old man desperately clinging onto football´s darker corners and its shitshows.

but that´s the way, football is, over here. thank GOd.

-----

and i´d hate nils, tony the pony, if he´d somehow were not to hate germany. it would not be him, as a footballer. (plus, i think, it´s personal. tony hat hat mal gesagt, daß es für ihn echt was neues ist, als mitglied seiner familie mit nem deutschen zug zu fahren, und nicht ins lager gefahren zu werden).

[Tony the Pony]

I'll be rooting for the Dutch, but if Spain play the same formation and personnel on Sunday (though I could see Silva for Pedro) they'll win. Their possession is just too methodical and I can't see the Dutch (who will play the same as Germany did) counter attacking Spain to much effect.

I hope I'm wrong.

You are.

Holland employs a possession based style as well. Actually, Spain had gotten its style of play from how Barcelona has been playing, and the two people most responsible for that were/are Cruijff and Van Gaal.

The Dutch will not play like Germany did, and will probably have a very similar possession percentage as Spain.

[Spacemans Bong]

Ah, boo.

I was going to try and see my aunt this weekend, who just happens to live in the Netherlands. Alas, she is away.

[Bosoxen]

Edited to add: the Dutch will be depending on midfield players like Van Bommel and de Zeeuw to disrupt Spanish possession. I'm predicting some clumsy challenges especially from Van Bommel, whom I'm beginning to suspect is kind of an asshole following his performance against Uruguay. Would anyone be the least bit surprised to see him sent off?

I can't believe it took you that long to realize Van Bommel's a cunt. How he managed to escape the Slovakia match without getting a yellow is beyond me. I thought for sure he would get one, based simply on the amount of late tackles he was attempting - let alone the handful of borderline dirty fouls he was committing. But alas, the ref gave him a longer rope than I would have.

[ifmanis5]

My vote to the Oranje.

Poor Paul The German Octopus, he's getting death threats, even though he was right.

German fans want revenge grilling of oracle octopus@
By Erik Kirschbaum
BERLIN, July 8 (Reuters Life!) - Some Germans are calling for a public roasting of the oracle octopus who correctly picked the winner of all six of their national soccer team's World Cup matches -- including a bitter defeat to Spain on Wednesday.
Paul, a two-year-old octopus in a German aquarium, turned into a global celebrity for his uncanny ability to predict the winner of all Germany's matches -- even a group stage defeat to Serbia and an ousting by Spain in the semi-finals.
"Nothing beats grilled octopus," said Dolores Lusch, a Germany fan who works on a Berlin fish stall. "Cut him up in thin slices and grill him on all sides with a dash of lemon juice, olive oil and garlic on it. Delicious!"
Not an ordinarily superstitious people, Germans became believers in Paul's possible psychic powers. The country was shocked and distraught when he picked Spain to win after tipping German wins over Argentina, England, Ghana and Australia.
German newspapers and websites were filled with suggestions of what to do with Paul -- most involved cooking and eating him.
"Throw him in the frying pan," wrote the Berliner Kurier newspaper in a popular sentiment echoed by Die Welt, Sueddeutsche Zeitung, the Hamburger Abendblatt and other newspapers.

Tomorrow Paul will make his pick for the final.

[rguilmar]

My brother is in Barcelona so I'm really rooting for him to get the chance to live the party of his life. Not that I wouldn't have rooted for Spain anyway but that doesn't hurt.

Vamos España!

Not too sure how big the fiesta would be in Barcelona. I was living there during the 2002 World Cup and the people were indifferent to say the least to the World Cup. I found more Irish people in the city watching the Spain-Ireland match than locals. This year could be different with so many Catalan and Barca players on the team. For what it's worth, I called my family in Barcelona and they said it's ok for them to root for Spain this time.

As far as the game goes, Spain has shown fewer holes in their defense, and I think that is the difference. The Spaniards have a better chance of breaking up the Dutch attacking. I do think that the Dutch will play more defensive than they have in the past. They haven't really played that slick passing Clockwork Orange type of game much at all, and they will need to focus on getting the Spanish out of their rhythm.

[Bosoxen]

Not too sure how big the fiesta would be in Barcelona. I was living there during the 2002 World Cup and the people were indifferent to say the least to the World Cup. I found more Irish people in the city watching the Spain-Ireland match than locals. This year could be different with so many Catalan and Barca players on the team. For what it's worth, I called my family in Barcelona and they said it's ok for them to root for Spain this time.

As far as the game goes, Spain has shown fewer holes in their defense, and I think that is the difference. The Spaniards have a better chance of breaking up the Dutch attacking. I do think that the Dutch will play more defensive than they have in the past. They haven't really played that slick passing Clockwork Orange type of game much at all, and they will need to focus on getting the Spanish out of their rhythm.

I get the feeling that indifference would have eroded if Spain had reached the final. This would be their first World Cup championship. But still, even if the entirety of the country doesn't erupt into one giant party, I get the feeling he'd find plenty of party goers to celebrate with.

[kenneycb]

I get the feeling that indifference would have eroded if Spain had reached the final. This would be their first World Cup championship. But still, even if the entirety of the country doesn't erupt into one giant party, I get the feeling he'd find plenty of party goers to celebrate with.

I know people that were there when they won Euro '08. They were far from indifferent in their celebrations.

[Spacemans Bong]

Hey Tony, I'm going to be in Rotterdam tomorrow night. I'll say hi to de Kuip for you.

[EP Sox Fan]

You are.

Holland employs a possession based style as well. Actually, Spain had gotten its style of play from how Barcelona has been playing, and the two people most responsible for that were/are Cruijff and Van Gaal.

The Dutch will not play like Germany did, and will probably have a very similar possession percentage as Spain.

This.

I was actually going to post something similar in response until I scrolled down and read your post. Germany's main problem is that their counterattack was completely neutralized by Spain's tactics. Watched the game with my friend who's a huge German fan and we kept remarking how Spain had 6-7 guys back every time Germany tried to break with the ball. With the biggest part of their offensive game plan effectively eliminated, they simply looked lost trying to find another way to score (it didn't help that they couldn't play the ball on the wings and kept lofting balls in the box hoping for Klose to get a head on one..hot an effective or high percentage strategy.) The Dutch can counter when they need to with Robben / Van Persie / Kuyt (does anyone else think he looks like Sloth from The Goonies?) but are actually more accomplished at the methodical possession / build up that Spain plays. The few dangerous chances coming from Germany were coming from play off the wings. When a defensive team has that many players back, you have to spread them out by going wide. The Dutch are far more equipped to do this with Robben / Kuyt / Elia and the occasional wide run by Van Persie than the Germans were (especially since they were without their most talented winger.) This offensive versatility could give Spain problems.

Spain has the clear advantage in their back four and at keeper. Pique et al. looked very solid against a good German team. If the Netherlands are able to commit to spreading the field and work the balls on the wings, I think they can have some success. If not, Spain's discipline in the back will make it very difficult for them to find quality chances. Frankly, I think the Dutch are going to have to score 2+ goals to win this game because their back four seemingly is incapable of maintaining that same type of discipline for 90 minutes. Spain has too much talent not to take advantage of one of their defensive lapses.

[nvalvo]

I can't believe it took you that long to realize Van Bommel's a cunt. How he managed to escape the Slovakia match without getting a yellow is beyond me. I thought for sure he would get one, based simply on the amount of late tackles he was attempting - let alone the handful of borderline dirty fouls he was committing. But alas, the ref gave him a longer rope than I would have.

I can't believe it either. I guess I hadn't seen enough of their games. Cockheadedness of that caliber certainly does stand out.

EP has some interesting points about the versatility of the Dutch. If somebody in midfield (de Jong?) steps up and has a great match, the Dutch could be a threat.

Another thought: will Robben be matched up against Sergio Ramos or Capdevila? Because that could be a really key interaction. I'm not sure old man Capdevila has the pace to handle him.

It should be a really interesting game, tactically.

Edited to add that I still think Spain should be favored.

Edited by nvalvo, 08 July 2010 - 04:34 PM.

[Sille Skrub]

I'm an honorary Dutchman. I REALLY hope I would qualify for this.

ETA: I can't think of a better reason to tweet nor root for Holland.

[rguilmar]

I'm an honorary Dutchman. I REALLY hope I would qualify for this.

ETA: I can't think of a better reason to tweet nor root for Holland.

That's a lot of head. I would rather not be 66,000th in line for that treat.

[soxfan121]

That's a lot of head. I would rather not be 66,000th in line for that treat.

Rub some Scope on it and get in the game, ya pansy.

[Tony the Pony]

and i´d hate nils, tony the pony, if he´d somehow were not to hate germany. it would not be him, as a footballer. (plus, i think, it´s personal. tony hat hat mal gesagt, daß es für ihn echt was neues ist, als mitglied seiner familie mit nem deutschen zug zu fahren, und nicht ins lager gefahren zu werden).

You're right. I have no love lost for Spain. Or most other European football nations at the highest level - but fuck the Germans.

Fuck 1974. Fuck 1982 and Toni Schumacher. I loved the 1986 final, but fuck 1990. During my formative years Germany always had a Mannschaft comprised of cunts, wankers and cocksuckers. Fuck them. And their fucking fans.

[Nick Kaufman]

This.

I was actually going to post something similar in response until I scrolled down and read your post. Germany's main problem is that their counterattack was completely neutralized by Spain's tactics. Watched the game with my friend who's a huge German fan and we kept remarking how Spain had 6-7 guys back every time Germany tried to break with the ball. With the biggest part of their offensive game plan effectively eliminated, they simply looked lost trying to find another way to score (it didn't help that they couldn't play the ball on the wings and kept lofting balls in the box hoping for Klose to get a head on one..hot an effective or high percentage strategy.) The Dutch can counter when they need to with Robben / Van Persie / Kuyt (does anyone else think he looks like Sloth from The Goonies?) but are actually more accomplished at the methodical possession / build up that Spain plays. The few dangerous chances coming from Germany were coming from play off the wings. When a defensive team has that many players back, you have to spread them out by going wide. The Dutch are far more equipped to do this with Robben / Kuyt / Elia and the occasional wide run by Van Persie than the Germans were (especially since they were without their most talented winger.) This offensive versatility could give Spain problems.

Spain has the clear advantage in their back four and at keeper. Pique et al. looked very solid against a good German team. If the Netherlands are able to commit to spreading the field and work the balls on the wings, I think they can have some success. If not, Spain's discipline in the back will make it very difficult for them to find quality chances. Frankly, I think the Dutch are going to have to score 2+ goals to win this game because their back four seemingly is incapable of maintaining that same type of discipline for 90 minutes. Spain has too much talent not to take advantage of one of their defensive lapses.

Once again, the German counter-attack was the icing on the cake, not the reason they won games. Versus England they dominated possession until they got 2-0 up. We don't know what would have happened against Argentina because they scored early (though in fairness, two out of their other three goals were against an organized defense). They also played possession football in their group games. So, it's not that they couldn't counter-attack, it's that they couldn't get possession in the first place and when they did, the Spanish defense (which was also pressing high) wouldn't let them keep it for long.

I think Germany buying into the hype about their counter-attack might be an explanation (I don't know if them defending deep was their choice or Spanish dominance), but the truth of the matter is that Spain's ability to keep the ball is above and beyond any team's in the tournament.

A key to countering Spanish tactics might be what Paraguay did which was pressing high up the pitch against the center-backs and Busquets which aren't as adept at holding the ball, as Xavi and co.

[Dummy Hoy]

A key to countering might be what Paraguay did which was pressing high up the pitch against the center-backs and Busquets which aren't as adept, as Xavi and co.

I thought Spain did a nice job of pressing against Germany's back line, which really stiffled their ability to push forward with any organization.

[djhb20]

I know people that were there when they won Euro '08. They were far from indifferent in their celebrations.

I was in Barcelona for the first knock-out game against Portugal. The 8 other people in the bar were excited when Villa scored. But it was not a party scene by any stretch. Catalans at the university were explaining that they were actively going to root for Portugal. I'm sure if they win, there'll be some fun to be had, but it'll be nothing compared to what Madrid would be like, for example...

[kenneycb]

I was in Barcelona for the first knock-out game against Portugal. The 8 other people in the bar were excited when Villa scored. But it was not a party scene by any stretch. Catalans at the university were explaining that they were actively going to root for Portugal. I'm sure if they win, there'll be some fun to be had, but it'll be nothing compared to what Madrid would be like, for example...

I'm pretty sure I mixed up Barcelona winning the Champions League with Euros so disregard last comment and carry on with your normal course of business.

[mikeford]

Paul the Octopus picked Spain.

[Zososoxfan]

I expect the shaky Dutch defense to have a lot of trouble with Spain's high press. If they can work the ball out to their wings, they have a chance, but because Spain recovers well on defense, it will require the dutch mids (not Robben, Kuyt, or Sneijder) to play effective support and that's frankly, asking a lot of defensive minded players. In the end, I expect a lot of danger from the Spaniards, but no goals until late in the game for either side. I'm not counting the Dutch out, but I'd say a 2-0 Spain win, or a 2-1 Dutch win is most likely. Since I'm a Barca fan, I'll call for a Xavi goal and assist, with a token goal for Sneijder.

La Furia Roja win WC#1, 2-1.

[ossie schreckengost]

the most beautiful song - ever - to get it up for a game you´re not THAT interested in.

fußball ist immer noch wichtig




football will always be important/wichtig, as long as i live.

i breathe that shit.

all i need tonight is the dutch to lose.

most of my friends are living on the nether rhine. and i just don´t want their children growing up with jug ears.

[estreetfan]

I hope Holland wins. Holland 2-1.

[ossie schreckengost]

You're right. I have no love lost for Spain. Or most other European football nations at the highest level - but fuck the Germans.

Fuck 1974. Fuck 1982 and Toni Schumacher. I loved the 1986 final, but fuck 1990. During my formative years Germany always had a Mannschaft comprised of cunts, wankers and cocksuckers. Fuck them. And their fucking fans.

cunts wankers and cocksuckers. the lot of our´s, the lot of your´s.
-------

it wasn´t even primitive frank rijkaard and his spitting on rudy völler. it was ´88, when ronald fucking koeman wiped his arse with a german kit, the ultimate insult.

since then, the koeman-incident, it is blind hatred to me.

and no love lost.

evviva espana! go smother the fucking dutch with your brilliant neo-catenaccio.

win it for me. half of football, sometimes the most beautiful half, is born out of spite, anyway.

[Spacemans Bong]

Most of Holland is a little nervous as you'd expect. Strangely, the usual practice of draping your whole street in orange is down this year from past years, certainly from the past World Cup.

[ifmanis5]

What will the tv rating be? Expectations are high.

BC-SOC--WCup-TV Audience,0244
FIFA expects 700 million to watch World Cup final

JOHANNESBURG (AP) -- FIFA expects a global television audience of more than
700 million viewers to watch the World Cup final.
FIFA's head of television Niclas Ericson says deals were signed to show
the Netherlands play Spain in every country in the world.
FIFA expects a record audience for a sports broadcast in Spain, and a
market share of more than 90 percent of Dutch viewers.
The World Cup final is set to beat the audience for the opening ceremony
at the 2008 Beijing Olympics which attracted an estimated 600 million
viewers.

[Sille Skrub]

700 million? Jesus.

[Tony the Pony]

cunts wankers and cocksuckers. the lot of our´s, the lot of your´s.
-------

it wasn´t even primitive frank rijkaard and his spitting on rudy völler. it was ´88, when ronald fucking koeman wiped his arse with a german kit, the ultimate insult.

since then, the koeman-incident, it is blind hatred to me.

To be honest with you, after 1988 it all went downhill for me, as well.

Gullit, despite his years at Feyenoord, proved to be a wanker that's best at quitting, Rijkaard.... blergh. For more than 20 years, the Dutch national team was dominated by Ojoks players and their arrogance and miss-placed sense of entitlement. Ojoks won 2 European Cup in that span, PSV won the EC I in 1988, but the Dutch never won anything, mostly because they consisted primarily of cunts, wankers and cocksuckers I couldn't give two shits for.

Now, however, there's a Dutch side with a manager that is capable and intelligent. There are still a few wankers and cunts on board (Van Bommel, Schneijdert), a borderline retard (Heitinga), but the lot is being compensated by model professionals like Gio and Kuijt.

I've mentioned Gio in the past, but to me he is the prime example of a smart football player with a keen sense of the world around him. It's a shame you just don't see that a lot in a sport that is being dominated by wankers and dumb people at all levels.

For me, Kuijt has been the revelation of team. He probably has the least amount of talent of anybody on the Dutch side, but knows that if he doesn't give a full 100% for even a few seconds each game, he would lose his value as a football player and would probably end up like his father; busting his ass on a fishing vessel on the North Sea.

There hasn't been much love lost between me and the Dutch team in the 25-30 years that I have actively followed football, but it would be fuckin incredible to see Gio lift the modern day Coupe Jules Rimet.

Quite nervous, for me this probably is the second biggest football match in decades (Feyenoord's UEFA Cup Final was infinitely bigger, of course), although I can name dozens of individual Feyenoord games I was more pumped up for.

Kom op Oranje!

[MarkInLondon]

First World Cup Final for ages when I've not been particularly bothered who wins - since 1990 I suppose, when I fervently wished for both sides to lose ignominiously....

I just wonder if being so reliant on one goalscorer is going to catch up with Spain eventually. After all, despite all the 'ticky-tack' stuff against Germany, they only finally scored through a typical 'John Terry' style goal from a corner - cross, header, in.

On balance, the Barca fan in me will want Spain to win, but I think Holland will win 2-1.

[cjdmadcow]

Netherlands v Spain team line-ups

Netherlands: 1-Maarten Stekelenburg; 2-Gregory van der Wiel, 3-John Heitinga, 4-Joris Mathijsen, 5-Giovanni van Bronckhorst; 7-Dirk Kuyt, 6-Mark van Bommel, 10-Wesley Sneijder, 8-Nigel de Jong, 11-Arjen Robben; 9-Robin van Persie.

Spain: 1-Iker Casillas; 15-Sergio Ramos, 3-Gerard Pique, 5-Carles Puyol, 11-Joan Capdevila; 14-Xabi Alonso, 8-Xavi, 6-Andres Iniesta, 16-Sergio Busquets; 18-Pedro, 7-David Villa.

Referee: Howard Webb (England)

[Jnai]

Go Netherlands!!

[EP Sox Fan]

This should be an exceptionally good game. The Dutch have to use the width of the field and keep pressure on the Spanish midfield in order to be successful in this match. Spain has to maintain possession and keep their defensive shape in the back, two things they have been very consistent with during this WC.

Netherlands 3-2.

[ifmanis5]

Thank God that Saint Bono hurt his back and we were all spared his cuntiness for the last month.

Go Oranje!

[Ahriman]

Spain sucks the life out of the first half, but can't find the net. Second half, Holland opens it up with great pace and goes on for the 2-0 victory.

Hup Holland Hup!
Hup Holland Hup!

[Zomp]

Did Pedro look up to see if Webb was giving a card like in the Champions League?

[Ahriman]

Spain: masters of the eggroll.

[Jnai]

Great save there. But fuck Spain, it's an entire team of Pau Gasol-level flopping.

[Nick Kaufman]

Great save there. But fuck Spain, it's an entire team of Pau Gasol-level flopping.

Yeah, the Dutch are the saints of clean football.