1179 replies to this topic

[jon abbey]

Amare's streak of 30 point games was in real danger last night, he was in foul trouble with the first half and only had 2 points with 2:30 left in the second quarter.

No worries: 6 points to close out the 2nd, 8 points in the 3rd and a whopping 18 in the 4th for his 6th straight 30 point game, the longest streak for a Knick since 1961 (which of course includes Ewing, Bernard King, Clyde Frazier, etc.).

[TheGazelle]

NY with their second five game winning streak of the season, to go along with the second best road record in the east. 9-1 in their last 10 games. They are certainly taking advantage of a weak schedule to start the season, but in a conference where half the teams are currently under .500, the Knicks could definitely end up being a 7 or 8 seed when all is said and done. And I think making the playoffs is going to be important in showing Melo that he can win there when it comes time to decide whether to sign with them or NJ or somewhere else.

There is no reason this team shouldn't be the 7/8 seed. Looking at the standings, there are basically 9 teams for 8 spots. Boston, Miami, Orlando, Chicago, and Atlanta are all locks in some order, which leaves NY, Indiana, Milwaukee and Charlotte to fight for 3 spots (unless you think Toronto/Philly sneaks in). I think the Bucks get it together, but there's no reason to think they can't beat out one of the Pacers/Bobcats and make the playoffs. I think not being the 7/8 seed would be a major disappointment for this team.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

30 more for Amare today, his 8th straight game with 30 points, and the Knicks beat the Nuggets at home for their 8th straight win and 13th out of 14. Felton added 19 points and 17 assists, and Landry Fields was quietly very good again with 18 points and 9 rebounds. They've got Miami, Oklahoma City, and of course Boston on Wednesday. Should be an interesting week for the Knicks.

[SemperFidelisSox]

First 8 game winning streak since '94.

The defense is still horrendous though.

[jon abbey]

"Carmelo Anthony has told the Denver Nuggets he will not sign the nearly $65 million contract extension he has been offered unless he is traded to the New York Knicks, a source told ESPN.com on Sunday. "

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=5912307

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

That was as compelling a watch at the Garden as there's been in a decade. The team should be a solid 6 seed, and might even give Chicago a decent series.

There are a few things that stick out, sticking only to this roster.

1-Stoudemire and Felton's minutes are unsustainable. They need to find some rest for these guys, but they don't play enough defense or with enough consistency to avoid longer runs and win comfortably against inferior opponents. And they score enough that they don't frequently get blown out.

2-In that vein, they have to find some size to rest Stoudemire. Internally, ideally they can get Mosgov to a place where he can give 15 minutes a night, chewing up 3-4 of Stoudemire's minutes a couple of Turiaf's, and adding some interior defense against bigger opponents.

3-They also need Douglas to pick up the offense to a level where he can spell Felton for longer stretches. He guards the ball well, he can shoot, but he can't execute the pick and roll well enough to make this offense effective. That needs to change, or Felton will burn out.

4-Find a role for Randolph. He can block shots, create some matchup problems and run the floor. Should be a fit, but he's lacksidasical and D'Antoni's buried him completely. Can't say that I disagree in the sample size I've seen, but an elite level coach has to be able to find some use for a guy with his tools.

5-Gallinari needs to step up and demand the ball. He's way too passive, and can get his shot off almost any time he wants. Chandler has become the go-to wing guy, but that should be Gallo's role moving forward. He can also be the first option for spells in a world where you rest Stoudemire, and that hasn't come yet.

Of course, this all may be moot come February.

[Rocco Graziosa]

"Carmelo Anthony has told the Denver Nuggets he will not sign the nearly $65 million contract extension he has been offered unless he is traded to the New York Knicks, a source told ESPN.com on Sunday. "

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=5912307

Dude, let it go and enjoy your team.

Knicks win again........basketball is alive again in New York. Stoudemire continues his improbable march towards the MVP. I like this team in a guilty pleasure type of way.........I know they don't play defense, and I dispise D'Assholi but damn its actually kind of fun to watch. Especially with Clyde Frasier calling the games.

Wednesday is gonna be fun.

Edited by Rocco Graziosa, 12 December 2010 - 07:58 PM.

[jon abbey]

Dude, let it go and enjoy your team.

I'm definitely enjoying them, but they're not going to win a playoff series as currently constructed, and certainly not two.

[jon abbey]

That was as compelling a watch at the Garden as there's been in a decade. The team should be a solid 6 seed, and might even give Chicago a decent series.

There are a few things that stick out, sticking only to this roster.

1-Stoudemire and Felton's minutes are unsustainable. They need to find some rest for these guys, but they don't play enough defense or with enough consistency to avoid longer runs and win comfortably against inferior opponents. And they score enough that they don't frequently get blown out.

2-In that vein, they have to find some size to rest Stoudemire. Internally, ideally they can get Mosgov to a place where he can give 15 minutes a night, chewing up 3-4 of Stoudemire's minutes a couple of Turiaf's, and adding some interior defense against bigger opponents.

3-They also need Douglas to pick up the offense to a level where he can spell Felton for longer stretches. He guards the ball well, he can shoot, but he can't execute the pick and roll well enough to make this offense effective. That needs to change, or Felton will burn out.

4-Find a role for Randolph. He can block shots, create some matchup problems and run the floor. Should be a fit, but he's lacksidasical and D'Antoni's buried him completely. Can't say that I disagree in the sample size I've seen, but an elite level coach has to be able to find some use for a guy with his tools.

5-Gallinari needs to step up and demand the ball. He's way too passive, and can get his shot off almost any time he wants. Chandler has become the go-to wing guy, but that should be Gallo's role moving forward. He can also be the first option for spells in a world where you rest Stoudemire, and that hasn't come yet.

This is a very good analysis, especially about Felton, Gallo and Randolph. Douglas too, but I'm not sure he will ever have real PG skills, he's an undersized two. Stoudemire I actually think can keep this up all year, although it'd of course be better if he didn't have to every night (which is why the first half today was so promising, NY scored 66 and Amare only had 6 of them, the other four starters all outscored him).

[Grin&MartyBarret]

4-Find a role for Randolph. He can block shots, create some matchup problems and run the floor. Should be a fit, but he's lacksidasical and D'Antoni's buried him completely. Can't say that I disagree in the sample size I've seen, but an elite level coach has to be able to find some use for a guy with his tools.

My guess is that Randolph is not long for the Knicks. His name has been thrown around in a couple of deals, including, interestingly enough, in a deal that would send him to Houston in exchange for the Knicks old first round pick. There's also been rumors about Mayo coming to New York, though from what I've heard Memphis is far more interested in Chandler than in Randolph. That said, it's pretty clear to me that Randolph doesn't fit into D'Antoni's plans, and D'Antoni has never struck me as the type of coach that has the patience to deal with a Randolph type.

[SemperFidelisSox]

The Miami debacle with Lebron and Co. set a bad precedent where these playera now think they can hold a gun to everyone's head and demand where they're going.

[bbc23]

The Miami debacle with Lebron and Co. set a bad precedent where these playera now think they can hold a gun to everyone's head and demand where they're going.

The problem is, they can in some situations. In this case, Carmelo is forcing the Nuggets to trade him to the Knicks or he won't sign an extension. The Nuggets have to trade him there since no other team will ante up what it takes to get him for only a half-season. The Knicks are in the drivers seat. They know they are going to get Anthony and they can get him at whatever price they want unless the Nuggets want to get Bosh'd and be lame ducks in front of their fan base.

[jon abbey]

The Miami debacle with Lebron and Co. set a bad precedent where these players now think they can hold a gun to everyone's head and demand where they're going.

I think it's a great precedent, I'd much rather the players have more power and the owners less. It'll be interesting to see if the league somehow tries to counter that with the next CBA.

[bosox79]

Hate the Knicks but they are the most exciting team to watch in the NBA.

[mahky bellhorn]

The problem is, they can in some situations. In this case, Carmelo is forcing the Nuggets to trade him to the Knicks or he won't sign an extension. The Nuggets have to trade him there since no other team will ante up what it takes to get him for only a half-season. The Knicks are in the drivers seat. They know they are going to get Anthony and they can get him at whatever price they want unless the Nuggets want to get Bosh'd and be lame ducks in front of their fan base.

I wouldn't overstate the Knicks' leverage- Melo is going to lose an assload of money if he doesn't sign an extension this year. If you're the Magic, why not trade all of your young assets for a half year rental? Worst case they elevate to contender status this year, best case Melo decides to sign an extension since Orlando isn't a horrible deal and he doesn't want to lose all of that scrill.

At the very least the Knicks need to package Gallo, Curry, + Randolph to get this done.

[86spike]

I wouldn't overstate the Knicks' leverage- Melo is going to lose an assload of money if he doesn't sign an extension this year. If you're the Magic, why not trade all of your young assets for a half year rental? Worst case they elevate to contender status this year, best case Melo decides to sign an extension since Orlando isn't a horrible deal and he doesn't want to lose all of that scrill.

At the very least the Knicks need to package Gallo, Curry, + Randolph to get this done.

There's definitely risk for the Knicks (that Orlando scenario for example), but if Carmelo really is dead set on NYK, I think they would be nuts to make a trade when they could just hold their breath and sign him as a free agent in June. Melo on the Knicks is great for them. Melo on the Knicks with Gallo and Randolph (and whatever picks they have left) is much better for them. A team with Melo, Amare, Gallo, Randolph and so on is on the right path for sure. One built on just Melo and Amare is less certain and would still be building.

Sure, there's a chance Denver sends him off as a rental (BTW, the Nuggest are getting fucking boned in all this man! They really should have traded him before the season started, idiots) and then he falls for that team. But if that happens, the Knicks keep Gallo and Randolph and can find another SF somewhere else.

[mahky bellhorn]

Knicks would have to renounce Randolph + Gallo to make a run at CP3 the following offseason anyway, so it's really not a huge loss when you consider that they can lock up Melo plus have him for the stretch run this year. Although I suppose best case scenario is that that sign Melo in the offseason and then package Gallo, AR, Felton, + Fields for CP3, but that's a riskier strategy.

And the Nuggets are getting crushed by not taking Favors when they had the chance.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Knicks would have to renounce Randolph + Gallo to make a run at CP3 the following offseason anyway, so it's really not a huge loss when you consider that they can lock up Melo plus have him for the stretch run this year.  Although I suppose best case scenario is that that sign Melo in the offseason and then package Gallo, AR, Felton, + Fields for CP3, but that's a riskier strategy.

And the Nuggets are getting crushed by not taking Favors when they had the chance.

I'm not so sure that a team of Paul, Melo, and Amare surrounded by scraps is really in much better shape than a team with Felton, Melo, and Amare with guys like Fields, Gallo, and Chandler playing supporting roles. Obviously that only happens if the Knicks sign Carmelo in Free Agency, as they'd have to give a few of those assets to Denver in order to trade for Anthony, but given the way that Felton is thriving in D'Antoni's system, I'm not sure the upgrade to Chris Paul is significant enough to part with Gallinari, Felton, and Fields. Personally, I'd prefer this team: 

Felton
Fields
Anthony
Chandler
Amare


with Gallinari, Azuibuike, Toney Douglas, Turiaf, Mozgov, and Randolph coming off the bench. . .

To this team: 

Paul
Azuibuike
Carmelo
Amare
Turiaf


with Douglas, Shawne Williams, Bill Walker, Mozgof and other Heat type scraps coming off the bench. 

I think the first group above is a true center away from being a legitimate contender in the next couple of years. The second group seems like it would struggle to find the right complementary pieces to surround the core in a similar manner to what's happening in Miami right now. 

But this may just be my fondness for guys like Gallo and Chandler clouding my vision. 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

I disagree with the sentiment that waiting for Melo to sign with the Knicks as a FA is a wise move. Lets start out with three premises:

1-Anything we are hearing about Melo's preference for the Knicks is--informed, but still--speculation and there are no guarantees in sports.
2-Carmelo would potentially be leaving a boatload of money on the table by foregoing his extension and taking chances with the new CBA
3-There is no path for the Knicks to the 2-3 stars required in today's NBA to win a championship that does not include Carmelo Anthony.

To be clear, not acquiring Anthony would be a basketball and PR failure of colossal proportions, and would set the franchise back years. It is likely the determining factor in Walsh's contract being renewed. To my mind, there are simply too many ways this goes wrong by waiting. He could easily be convinced to go to NJ. He could get dealt to a contender, play in an atmosphere like Dallas or Orlando alongside mega-stars and be convinced to re-sign due to a great experience and no state income taxes, or the new CBA could fundamentally alter free agent movement in ways we haven't even begun to consider.

With all that in mind, I think a trade is the wise way forward.

I'd guess the package for Anthony looks like:

Gallinari
Fields
Curry's Expiring
Azabuike's insurance-paid deal
Randolph or Randolph-deal acquired R1 pick
$3M

So, come February 25th, our starting roster would look like:

Felton
Anthony
Chandler
Stoudemire
+Another player acquired from Denver or Turiaf

JR Smith? A bad apple and expiring deal, but a guy who can knock down 3's the minute he enters the building. (I can't figure out how we'd get Kenyon Martin trade wise)

http://games.espn.go...tradeId=25yygoa

Does a trade like this really really hurt the team this year depth-wise? Sure, of course. But it gives you two things you can't otherwise have--certainty of two stars, plus an opportunity for Amare, Melo and Felton to go through a playoff series together while all three are healthy and in their primes. That experience, figuring each other out in the toughest arena possible, allows for an accelerated learning curve and gives Walsh some perspective with which to rebuild the depth during the offseason.

Most importantly, with Melo in the fold, we can be assured Donnie will be the guy calling the shots this offseason and moving forward. Not the other guy whom I shall not name.

OE: One more point--a trade for Melo should allow us to resign Chandler and Turiaf. Signing Melo as a FA would likely mean we'd have to renounce one or both of their rights (under what we currently understand the CBA to be). So any analysis of signing Melo as a FA must include that factor.

Edited by A Bartlett Giamatti, 15 December 2010 - 11:46 AM.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

This is what i don't get though: if the Nets want Carmelo, they can have him. If they include Favors, they get him, and the best the Knicks can hope for is that he reaches free agency anyhow. The Nets package trumps the Knicks package regardless, so your fears about New Jersey, while well-founded, are completely out of the Knicks' control. The Nuggets front office isn't going to close on a deal with the Knicks without calling New Jersey to give them the opportunity to beat the offer. Ultimately, if the Nets want him, they get him. 

As for the "mystery team" scenario, I just don't see the match. Dallas has no young, high upside talent to offer. Orlando could, in theory, offer something like Brandon Bass, Jameer Nelson, Michael Pietrus, and Daniel Orton, but an offer like that raises a some questions:

1. Given that Denver sees Ty Lawson as their PG of the future, are they really interested in an offer for Carmelo centered around a PG? 
2. Without Nelson in the deal, is there anyway it gets done? Denver would have to love Bass or Gortat (who would basically have to be included for salary purposes). 
3. If Nelson is in the deal, how much better does Orlando actually get? They run a ton of pick and roll, and last season Jameer Nelson was the most effective pick and roll player in the league. Do they really want to go into the playoffs with Jason Williams starting at PG and an offense that was re-vamped mid-season?


So I'm not really sure I see the match. The Knicks should absolutely make the deal if it looks like he's headed elsewhere for a lesser package. But if the deadline is approaching, and it's apparent that the Nets are steadfast in their plan to hang onto Favors, and the Nuggets are talking almost solely to the Knicks, if I'm Donnie Walsh, I take the gamble and let him reach free agency. 

[jon abbey]

Knicks with maybe their best game of the year, blowing out OKC behind a balanced effort from all eight guys in their rotation.

Burgeoning folk hero Landry Fields had numerous big plays of all varieties, and led both teams in rebounding. He has an incredible sense of timing the shot just right and crashing the boards from the perimeter at an unexpected angle, maybe a bit like Shawn Marion on D'Antoni's Suns teams. He's not the athlete a young Marion was (who is?), but he's got an almost Rodman-esque nose for the ball, which is rare in anyone and unheard of in a rookie SG. It's amazing how badly scouts missed on him, he wasn't even in most top 100 lists.

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Knicks with maybe their best game of the year, blowing out OKC behind a balanced effort from all eight guys in their rotation.

Burgeoning folk hero Landry Fields had numerous big plays of all varieties, and led both teams in rebounding. He has an incredible sense of timing the shot just right and crashing the boards from the perimeter at an unexpected angle, maybe a bit like Shawn Marion on D'Antoni's Suns teams. He's not the athlete a young Marion was (who is?), but he's got an almost Rodman-esque nose for the ball, which is rare in anyone and unheard of in a rookie SG. It's amazing how badly scouts missed on him, he wasn't even in most top 100 lists.

On a R2 contract, how is he not getting more love as a trade piece? Are you telling me Denver can't put a near equal value on this guy for 400k a year vs. Favors for $3M given their cheapness?

[jon abbey]

It's understandably hard for other teams to seriously value a guy that anyone could have drafted a few months ago, but dude looks legit. He had a follow of a missed FT today where he came from what looked like half court, so impressive.

Another very good win for NY today, even though Chicago is of course missing Noah. They made Rose and Boozer both take a ton of shots to get their points, and Amare had six blocks (!). They amazingly held Chicago scoreless for about 8 minutes in the 4th quarter and ended up winning fairly easily, next up are road games in Miami and Orlando.

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Good read here on the economics of acquiring Carmelo.

http://www.knicksfan.net/?p=4432

One scenario I don't see is if the Knicks can get Chandler to hold off on signing an offer sheet, enabling them to have only his FA amount count against the cap. If the CBA is altered in some way regarding max contracts, or if Melo is willing to take less (13M in the first year), theoretically they could fit both guys in the Melo to Free Agency scenario.

[jon abbey]

The general theory that's been developed among the posters at Knickerblogger is that since Melo isn't really an ideal fit anyway, they should just tinker at the edges, hope the young core continues to improve, and hold out for Dwight Howard in the summer of 2012. Pretty unlikely, I know, just putting it out there.

[jon abbey]

Knicks with I believe their most impressive win since the Camby/Sprewell years, running a well-rested 29-4 Spurs out of the gym 128-115, without Gallinari. They actually might have hit 135, but Pop pulled Parker/Ginobili/Duncan with 3 minutes to go in a 10 point game. Chandler (season high 31), Fields and Felton all stepped up huge with Gallo out, although Anthony Randolph still can't get on the court.

[jon abbey]

"The Spurs allowed 128 points to the Knicks. That is the most points they have allowed in regulation since drafting Tim Duncan in 1997."

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

The general theory that's been developed among the posters at Knickerblogger is that since Melo isn't really an ideal fit anyway, they should just tinker at the edges, hope the young core continues to improve, and hold out for Dwight Howard in the summer of 2012. Pretty unlikely, I know, just putting it out there.

That's absurd to me from a basketball standpoint, and I can't see how it would work from a cap standpoint. Better teams are going to find ways to shut down Amare, just as Boston, Miami and Orlando have. So, unless we want to play for the 6 seed every year and a first round exit, you have to think a little bit past "Gallo!!!1 Wil the Thrill!!!" and winning some regular seasons games. Howard also might be the perfect fit, but he's not a free agent for another year+, which is valuable time off a healthy Amare, and the likelihood of him coming here is even less than with Melo.

There's also a difference between being able to get the shots we want now and being able to get them in May and (hopefully one day) June. What we've seen in the last few minutes of games from Boston, Miami and Orlando will be the norm come playoff time, and those top tier defensive teams will be able to severely limit Amare, and close out faster on our shooters than they have been in December. Carmelo makes the difference there, in that he can score 1 on 1 on anyone in the league, will force the likes of Lebron and Wade to stay honest, and would be the guy who can get us hoops when the play breaks down.

Edited by A Bartlett Giamatti, 05 January 2011 - 11:31 AM.

[jon abbey]

That's absurd to me from a basketball standpoint, and I can't see how it would work from a cap standpoint. Better teams are going to find ways to shut down Amare, just as Boston, Miami and Orlando have.

Just to nitpick a little, Amare was dominant against Orlando when the refs let him play, 30 points in 32 minutes and 4 impressive blocks until the refs started calling imaginary fouls (and an absurd T, already rescinded) on him. I almost never complain about the refs, but the way they treated Amare in that game was ridiculous.

As for the rest of it, Chandler is still getting better and is a decidedly better defensive player than Melo already. Dunno, you've got some points, but at this point, I'd like to see NY just stick with this young core and see how they develop. Howard or Paul or Deron Williams would be the missing piece to make them a true contender, I don't really think that Melo would, and he would likely kill their cap flexibility going forward.

[BigSoxFan]

That's absurd to me from a basketball standpoint, and I can't see how it would work from a cap standpoint. Better teams are going to find ways to shut down Amare, just as Boston, Miami and Orlando have. So, unless we want to play for the 6 seed every year and a first round exit, you have to think a little bit past "Gallo!!!1 Wil the Thrill!!!" and winning some regular seasons games. Howard also might be the perfect fit, but he's not a free agent for another year+, which is valuable time off a healthy Amare, and the likelihood of him coming here is even less than with Melo.

There's also a difference between being able to get the shots we want now and being able to get them in May and (hopefully one day) June. What we've seen in the last few minutes of games from Boston, Miami and Orlando will be the norm come playoff time, and those top tier defensive teams will be able to severely limit Amare, and close out faster on our shooters than they have been in December. Carmelo makes the difference there, in that he can score 1 on 1 on anyone in the league, will force the likes of Lebron and Wade to stay honest, and would be the guy who can get us hoops when the play breaks down.

I agree with this. The Knicks have improved a lot more than I expected but they're still light year's away from being a legit title contender. Adding Carmelo wouldn't get them in the Boston/Miami level but I think it'd put the Knicks in the outside contenders group with Orlando/Chicago.

[jon abbey]

I agree with this. The Knicks have improved a lot more than I expected but they're still light year's away from being a legit title contender. Adding Carmelo wouldn't get them in the Boston/Miami level but I think it'd put the Knicks in the outside contenders group with Orlando/Chicago.

So at the cost of killing their future financial flexibility, they move from 6th to 4th or 5th in the conference? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Obviously Melo is an upgrade on Wilson Chandler (although possibly less than you'd think going forward), but what if the equation is Wilson and Tyson Chandler (a FA this year) for Melo's financial slot (or even less)?

[notfar]

That's absurd to me from a basketball standpoint, and I can't see how it would work from a cap standpoint. Better teams are going to find ways to shut down Amare, just as Boston, Miami and Orlando have.

Just to nitpick some more, Amare is averaging 33 PPG vs the Celtics this season.

[BigSoxFan]

So at the cost of killing their future financial flexibility, they move from 6th to 4th or 5th in the conference? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Obviously Melo is an upgrade on Wilson Chandler (although possibly less than you'd think going forward), but what if the equation is Wilson and Tyson Chandler (a FA this year) for Melo's financial slot (or even less)?

Knicks could get pretty close to Tyson Chandler production with the MLE. This is a 9/9 player we're talking about here. Knicks need another star so unless you think Chandler will develop into more than a good role player on a championship team, then I think you make the move.

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

So at the cost of killing their future financial flexibility, they move from 6th to 4th or 5th in the conference? That doesn't make much sense to me.

Obviously Melo is an upgrade on Wilson Chandler (although possibly less than you'd think going forward), but what if the equation is Wilson and Tyson Chandler (a FA this year) for Melo's financial slot (or even less)?

Financial flexibility is a goal so you can obtain a superstar. Melo is a superstar. If he were added to this roster, I'd put them at a close tie for 3 behind Miami and Boston with Orlando, which means in a year or 2 its just them, Orlando and Miami (and if Dwight leaves, just them and Miami). In any case, they are at the upper echelon of the conference, and would be competitive with anyone in a playoff series. That's all you can ask for.

Oh, and my point about Boston and Orlando shutting down Amare was the way they did so in the last few minutes of games was the way they'd treat him for the entirety of games in the playoffs. He got his numbers early in those games as I recall.

[jon abbey]

Orlando could not stop Amare when he was in the game, early or late, so you should back off that particular point.

Knicks could get pretty close to Tyson Chandler production with the MLE. This is a 9/9 player we're talking about here. Knicks need another star so unless you think Chandler will develop into more than a good role player on a championship team, then I think you make the move.

Chandler's strength is on defense, of course. NY is leading the league in shot blocking right now, but in part, that's because the other team gets to the basket so often.

And yes, the Knicks need another star, but it can't just be any star. Melo would be an awesome scorer in a D'Antoni system, but an Amare/Melo-led team would have trouble getting enough stops in the playoffs, even though Amare's D has gotten more consistent so far this year.

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Orlando could not stop Amare when he was in the game, early or late, so you should back off that particular point.



Chandler's strength is on defense, of course. NY is leading the league in shot blocking right now, but in part, that's because the other team gets to the basket so often.

And yes, the Knicks need another star, but it can't just be any star. Melo would be an awesome scorer in a D'Antoni system, but an Amare/Melo-led team would have trouble getting enough stops in the playoffs, even though Amare's D has gotten more consistent so far this year.

Maybe what I'm not understanding here is how the idea that the Knicks have their choice of stars comes in to play? Lets say we passed on Melo as both a deal and as a FA, provided we had those opportunities. Where would the cap room come from for Howard in 2012? And why would we wait that long when there's probably a 50%+ chance he resigns with the moves they've made for him, and he's flirted much more with the Lakers than the Knicks? And who are the other potential stars to hit the market? Paul or Williams? Even if we could clear the room for them, it would be at the expense of Felton. So you'd end up with 2 stars and a few good role players, rather than 2 stars, a borderline All-Star, and some good role players.

That's before taking into account the CBA uncertainty, any change to which is not likely going to give teams MORE cap flexibility or LESS control over players.

The contrarian view on Carmelo has its place, I just haven't seen anyone put together a scenario that makes the Knicks better over the next few years without Melo than with him.

[jon abbey]

The contrarian view on Carmelo has its place, I just haven't seen anyone put together a scenario that makes the Knicks better over the next few years without Melo than with him.

Sure, it's complicated, but I think if you could add a few smaller pieces like Channing Frye (probably overpriced but what a great fit for a D'Antoni team) and a young athletic backup PG while keeping Wilson Chandler for the same $20M per that it'll cost to sign Melo (even if they can get him in FA), that team might be better. Anyway, I'm glad I don't have Donnie Walsh's job, some very tough decisions to be made.

Four game West Coast road trip starts tomorrow, with Amare returning to Phoenix for the first time. NY is a remarkable 17-3 since mid-November against teams that aren't Miami or Boston, and they came a fraction of a second away from winning the Boston game also.

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Sure, it's complicated, but I think if you could add a few smaller pieces like Channing Frye (probably overpriced but what a great fit for a D'Antoni team) and a young athletic backup PG while keeping Wilson Chandler for the same $20M per that it'll cost to sign Melo (even if they can get him in FA), that team might be better. Anyway, I'm glad I don't have Donnie Walsh's job, some very tough decisions to be made.

Four game West Coast road trip starts tomorrow, with Amare returning to Phoenix for the first time. NY is a remarkable 17-3 since mid-November against teams that aren't Miami or Boston, and they came a fraction of a second away from winning the Boston game also.

Ok, but how does the second star come into the mix?

Anyway, agree this four game trip is going to tell us a lot. I think they win tonight, and if they can get another out of the next three @LAL, @POR, @UTA, I'll be very happy with a 2-2 trip. 3-1 might have me buying season tickets, and I live several hundred miles away.

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Someone please free Steve Nash. That was an atrocious display of basketball from the Suns. The Knicks went even smaller than usual and had no trouble with the Suns playing even less defense than they do and missing horrifically. Grant Hill was the exception--did an admirable job forcing Amare into a jump shooter. Too bad for him that Amare is a pretty damn good jump shooter.

Couple of things--it was pretty clear in garbage time why Randolph and Mosgov aren't getting off the bench. Mos made an idiotic decision to get ejected on an elbow and Randolph flashed equal parts athleticism, indifference, and bone-headedness. I'm not sure he's redeemable at this point. Rautins has a nice stroke though.

[jon abbey]

Also, Shawne Williams is looking very impressive, he even started the second half and helped end the game in the third quarter. He's been automatic from 3 all year, but with Gallo out, has started expanding his role a bit more and has turned himself into a key bench player.

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Also, Shawne Williams is looking very impressive, he even started the second half and helped end the game in the third quarter. He's been automatic from 3 all year, but with Gallo out, has started expanding his role a bit more and has turned himself into a key bench player.

Good call. He's putting it on the floor and rebounding more. Walker has also played pretty well in the post-Gallo void, not just jacking up shots but rebounding and playing a little defense.

[BigSoxFan]

Anthony Randolph is looking like one of those "toolsy" players who never puts it together, which has to be very disappointing for Knicks fans. If he can't flourish in Golden State or New York, then he basically has no chance anywhere else. If he ever becomes a productive NBA player, it'll probably be when he's 26 or 27 and on his 5th team.

[jon abbey]

If he can't flourish in Golden State or New York, then he basically has no chance anywhere else.

His attitude seems pretty lousy, but the NY part isn't really right. D'Antoni hates to play anyone at any position who can't hit the open 3, and that certainly isn't part of Randolph's game.

It's hard to be disappointed about anything as a Knicks fan right now, except for that worthless fat cow Curry still clogging one of the 15 roster spots. They've been playing great for close to two months now, fantastic effort virtually every night and results to match, and they seem to only be getting better.

[jon abbey]

Of course, NY followed up my last post with their first stinker in a long time, an effort against the Lakers that looked like they spent all night partying and didn't sleep.

They were long overdue for one of those, but they impressively regrouped tonight, winning going away in Portland against a team whose only home loss since November was to Miami in OT. They're also starting to show the ability to win in different ways, only hitting 5 3 pointers tonight, but holding Portland to 36 points in the second half and out-assisting them a remarkable 27 to 8 (!). Turiaf had a big effort, matching Aldridge's 19/10.

A likely loss tomorrow in Utah (who didn't play tonight), but then back home for what should be relatively easy games against SAC and PHO. Gallo might be back this weekend also, although there's really no need to rush him at this point.

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Echoing Abbey, I just want to say that as a Knicks fan, I see Carmelo going to the Nets (or anybody else, really) as a blessing in disguise for the Knicks and I'm completely opposed to giving up assets to get Carmelo at this point. 

There's no questioning that Anthony is a superior player to Wilson Chandler, and that he could slide in and provide the Knicks with an upgrade over Chandler, but I just don't believe that he presents enough of an upgrade over Chandler to justify the cost. They are, in a lot of ways, players that bring a lot of similarities to the table. Anthony is a better rebounder than Chandler and a better passer, but  Chandler is a much better defender, and this season has been a much better shooter. 

Comparing their numbers this season: 

Per Game Points, Field Goals Attempted, Rebounds, Assists and Blocks
Chandler: 17.7, 14.1, 6.3, 1.7, 1.4
Anthony: 23.8, 19.0, 8.2, 3.1, 0.6

PER, TS%, EFG%, Winshares
Chandler: 17.6, .579%, .549%, 3.6
Anthony: 20.6, .527%, .452%, 2.5

Edit: I should also mention that Carmelo is shooting just 25% from three this year, compared to Chandler's 37%. In the D'Antoni's system, the significance of that can't be understated. 

Now, keeping in mind that Chandler is 3 years younger and 19 million dollars cheaper, it's really hard for me to understand the argument in favor of Carmelo at this point. Sure, he's a great scorer, but he in no way addresses any of the Knicks' weaknesses and depending on how they acquire him he either A) uses up a ton of cap space, or B) costs Chandler, Gallo, Fields a first round pick, and an expiring deal or two. 

I would much, much rather the Knicks use that money to address other needs and build on what they have in place. Adding a piece like Tyson Chandler or Kendrick Perkins would fill a void, as would making an offer to Marc Gasol and hoping the Grizzlies can't match. And with that core in place, they'd be a very attractive destination for Deron Williams or Chris Paul in 2012. 

Edited by Grin&MartyBarret, 14 January 2011 - 01:22 PM.

[jon abbey]

The Grizzlies supposedly said the other day they're matching whatever offer Gasol gets.

[jon abbey]

4 Ls in a row now, 2 more up next at SA and OKC, and we're:

[Grin&MartyBarret]

You know, it's probably a pipe dream given the budding rivalry between the Nets and the Knicks, but I think Troy Murphy could really help the Knicks this year, and it's only a matter of time before the Nets send him somewhere. Among active players, he's 12th in career total rebound percentage, and the Knicks could certainly use the help on the glass. He also has the range to not stop the ball in the D'Antoni's system, something that the Knicks current bigs are prone to doing. Added benefit, of course, is that he's expiring. 

[A Bartlett Giamatti]

Inevitably, the minutes D'Antoni has been playing these guys is taking its toll. Felton, especially, is showing the wear and tear of 39 mpg at this tempo, and you can see Amare getting frustrated. It'll be a real test of D'Antoni to see if he's willing to be a bit flexible and give guys like Mosgov, Mason and Randolph some time to get his regulars a bit of rest before the 6th seed starts to become in question.

They did play well last night from what I saw, just didn't finish out a good team at home and then a superstar made a superstar shot to beat them.

[dolomite133]

Someone needs to explain to me if D'Antoni is a great coach or not. Seriously. His complete lack of emphasis on defense is laughable. His inability to manage minutes this season is glaring.