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Jacksonity......or the Knick thread


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#801 jon abbey


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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:00 PM

Toney Douglas with his first good game of the year and JR Smith with a career high 9 assists, admittedly against the disintegrating Magic, but we'll take it.

#802 A Bartlett Giamatti

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:24 PM

The Knicks are a terrible matchup for Orlando. They have the one center in basketball who can deal with Howard with only moderate help, athletic wings and an elite perimeter scoring option they can't defend. Would love to see them in the playoffs somehow.

#803 jon abbey


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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:05 PM

What a win for NY, an incredible start (27-6!), then a great comeback (10-0 to end regulation, aided by 4 missed FTs from Chicago), and then another comeback from down 4 in OT capped by a looong 3 by Melo, who had 43, his best game of the year. Shumpert is incredible, he outplayed Rose head to head and the four steals he's credited with don't even begin to tell the story.

#804 Witters

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:52 PM

Yep, that was a great game for the Knicks. This Bulls team isn't winning anything, I don't think, even though they crawled back into this one, they just look eminently beatable to me recently.

#805 jon abbey


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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:08 PM

Arguably Melo's best regular season game of his career, given the importance of the game and the defensive level of the opposition. He's had 9 other games of 43+ (all in Denver), only 5 of which his team won, and I don't think any near this big for his team.

Also, that was the first time NY has come back from 10 down with less than 4 minutes to go and won in any game since December 2000. Exhilarating to watch, whew.

#806 A Bartlett Giamatti

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:21 PM

SO many things about this game to analyze. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head:

-Amazing that they could even play with a team that strong defensively without a point guard for the entire fourth quarter. Unreal.
-Tyson. Tyson. Tyson. Maybe the biggest underrated turning point of the game was the refs calling Melo for a foul on Noah in OT when it appeared from the replay that it should've been Tyson's sixth. If that doesn't happen, all the tipouts and hustle plays don't happen, and Melo never even gets the final shot.
-I got so pissed off I actually said "If he shoots again I'm going to murder J.R. Smith's family." Holy crap with that guy. I am impressed though with his defense and rebounding, which ended up making a difference. But not compared to his atrocious shot selection.
-The titanic swing in this game standings-wise cannot be overestimated. Rather than being tied with Milwaukee for the last spot and likely to fall behind (hard to believe they'll repeat this on the road in Chicago) heading into Wednesday night's game, they are now a full game up on the 8th and tonight they'll either be tied for 7th or just two back in the division. If they can play like this, the 4 seed is a real possibility. Go Philly!

#807 jon abbey


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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:52 PM

Smith has to shoot with this set of personnel, he just needs better shot selection and obviously to hit more. But if Novak can't get free, Baron/Douglas are zeros, Jeffries and Chandler can't generate offense, and Melo is sitting, Smith should be shooting a lot of the time. He will start hitting, he has years of history of being able to score in bunches, he's healthy and he's still young.

If OKC can beat MIL tomorrow, there's a good argument to semi-tank Tuesday in CHI and rest up Chandler and Melo for the big Wednesday game in MIL.

#808 A Bartlett Giamatti

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:35 AM

I disagree with the "semi-tanking" approach. Given Philly's implosion and the softness of the back half of the Knicks remaining schedule, I'm pretty confident they'll make it in as either the 7th or 8th seed. However, if they are able to steal another game from Chicago or Miami, beat the Celtics at home, and otherwise generally take care of business, the division is nominally within reach.

I'm not really sure what "semi-tanking" entails, other than lowering the threshold for what constitutes garbage time (since they aren't pulling a San Antonio and sending Melo and Chandler straight to Milwaukee). I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think Woodson should have too quick a hook: if they are down 12 with 9 minutes left, I don't think he should sit Melo and Tyson the rest of the way, for instance.

#809 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:35 AM

Smith has to shoot with this set of personnel, he just needs better shot selection and obviously to hit more. But if Novak can't get free, Baron/Douglas are zeros, Jeffries and Chandler can't generate offense, and Melo is sitting, Smith should be shooting a lot of the time. He will start hitting, he has years of history of being able to score in bunches, he's healthy and he's still young.

If OKC can beat MIL tomorrow, there's a good argument to semi-tank Tuesday in CHI and rest up Chandler and Melo for the big Wednesday game in MIL.


Yeah, I'm not crazy about him, but Smith is the guy that should be shooting for that unit. What always frustrates me about him is that he seems to believe in this odd concept of "earned shots". It feels like every time he pulls down an offensive rebound he responds by taking a three pointer 4 seconds into the new shot clock, or every time he comes away with a steal, he takes a contested 23 foot jump shot.

His percentages are way down though. Does anybody know how far the 3 point line is in China? I wonder if he's been forced to readjust to a new distance or something.

#810 A Bartlett Giamatti

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:50 AM

Yeah, I'm not crazy about him, but Smith is the guy that should be shooting for that unit. What always frustrates me about him is that he seems to believe in this odd concept of "earned shots". It feels like every time he pulls down an offensive rebound he responds by taking a three pointer 4 seconds into the new shot clock, or every time he comes away with a steal, he takes a contested 23 foot jump shot.

His percentages are way down though. Does anybody know how far the 3 point line is in China? I wonder if he's been forced to readjust to a new distance or something.

Its not that I'm advocating against J.R. Smith shooting, its just the blatant awfulness of the shots he's taking has to improve. The guy is comically opposed to going to the basket, although he has the quickness and athleticism to get there and finish.

And can we talk about what a special player Shumpert is turning into? This guy is going to be an All-Star. His shot is improving, he has limitless athleticism and he is an all-world defender already. Plus, he really appears to have the mental toughness to improve his game and thrive in New York.

Thank you Donnie Walsh!

#811 jon abbey


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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:53 AM

And can we talk about what a special player Shumpert is turning into? This guy is going to be an All-Star. His shot is improving, he has limitless athleticism and he is an all-world defender already. Plus, he really appears to have the mental toughness to improve his game and thrive in New York.


Man, I've been talking about that all year. Steve Smith said on NBA-TV last night when analyzing this game: "guys like Shumpert and LeBron can bother Rose". GUYS LIKE SHUMPERT AND LEBRON. Loving that...

#812 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:05 AM

Yep, Shumpert was a steal where he was drafted. Though, in defense of the teams drafting ahead of the Knicks, it's looking like 2011 was a pretty deep draft and there weren't many swings and misses before 17.

He really is an elite defender though, and chances are that as he gains experience he'll be even better. And given the strength of the point guard position around the league right now, and the growing number of big, athletic 1's like Rose, Rondo, Wall, and Westbrook, having a guard that can defend those types of players is essential.

#813 A Bartlett Giamatti

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 02:11 PM

Wanted to point out something interesting about the way Woodson coached the last defensive possession (saw this video on theknicksblog.com, for the record)



At the last minute, Shumpert switches places with Fields, allowing him to defend Rose without having to fight through the three screens Chicago set up. It has been a long time since we've had a coach who has the eye to see how the offense is setting up, and the presence of mind to move his elite defender off his assigned guy. This defensive play call obviously worked out brilliantly for the Knicks. I won't bash D'Antoni here, because I can't think of more than a handful of coaches who make this adjustment so quickly and at such a pivotal moment. The more I see from Woodson, the more I think he's a real option next year.

Edited by A Bartlett Giamatti, 09 April 2012 - 02:13 PM.


#814 jon abbey


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Posted 09 April 2012 - 02:33 PM

I read elsewhere that was Shumpert's decision, it certainly scared the crap out of me live for a second. I'd be curious to know definitively whose call that was.

I am happy to bash D'Antoni, I wonder where this team would be right now if Woodson had been in charge the whole year.

#815 A Bartlett Giamatti

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 02:46 PM

I read elsewhere that was Shumpert's decision, it certainly scared the crap out of me live for a second. I'd be curious to know definitively whose call that was.

I am happy to bash D'Antoni, I wonder where this team would be right now if Woodson had been in charge the whole year.

If you watch the video you see Shumpert looking back at Woodson, who then demonstrably points in the direction of Fields. Shumpert then runs to Fields and tells him to switch up.

#816 simplyeric


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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:35 PM

If you watch the video you see Shumpert looking back at Woodson, who then demonstrably points in the direction of Fields. Shumpert then runs to Fields and tells him to switch up.


Good non-call on the stumble and chaos, with a moving screen that trips them up and completely reorders the play.

#817 A Bartlett Giamatti

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:16 AM

Two potentially beneficial developments for the Knicks last night: OKC takes care of business vs Milwaukee and it's revealed that DRose has a bad ankle and may not play tonight.

Edited by A Bartlett Giamatti, 10 April 2012 - 08:17 AM.


#818 BigSoxFan


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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:35 AM

Two potentially beneficial developments for the Knicks last night: OKC takes care of business vs Milwaukee and it's revealed that DRose has a bad ankle and may not play tonight.


I think it was pretty obvious that Rose was pretty hampered on Sunday with that ankle. Yes, Shumpert did a very good job but he wasn't seeing Rose at his physical peak.

#819 crow216


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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

Could be a huge win tonight if Miami beats Boston or Philly loses. I don't think anyone thinks the Knicks are a chamionship team right now but there's no way Chicago or Miami want to play them in the playoffs with the way their defense has been under Woody.

#820 jon abbey


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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:10 PM

There are increasing parallels with the 2004-2005 Nuggets:

Nuggets: fired their coach after starting the season 17-25
Knicks: fired their coach after starting the season 18-24

Nuggets: under the new coach, 32-8 and up to the 7th seed
Knicks: under the new coach, 15-5 and counting and up to the 7th seed

Nuggets: led offensively by Melo and defensively by 30 year old stud defensive center Marcus Camby
Knicks: led offensively by Melo and defensively by 29 year old stud defensive center Tyson Chandler

Nuggets: lost 4-1 to #2 seed and eventual NBA champions San Antonio
Knicks: ?????

#821 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:09 PM

Knicks are adding Dan Gadzuric and cutting Bill Walker for the playoffs.

Adds more depth to the front line, I guess.

#822 Stu Nahan

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:01 PM

Terrible loss by the Knicks tonight. It was curious that Woodson kept Melo and Chandler on the bench throughout the fourth quarter even after the Knicks had cut into the Cavs lead and gotten it down to single digits. I can't understand why but maybe they are content to take their chances against Miami or Chicago in round 1.

#823 jon abbey


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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:59 PM

Melo/Chandler/Shumpert have been playing huge minutes at peak effort pretty much every game lately, this was only the second dud of Woodson's 21 games (@TOR was the other). They need the Amare that was emerging just before he got hurt to match up with Bosh or Boozer to have any chance to compete with either of those teams, but man was he a sieve in the middle in his first game back tonight. NY got outrebounded 52-32 tonight, and that was Cleveland, not Chicago (shudder).

Three more games to get back in a groove, though. NY had the third best record in the league over the last 20 games coming into tonight at 15-5, with only San Antonio and Indiana ahead of them at 17-3 and 16-4. Also NY beat Indiana for 2 of those 4 losses, and they had a third game in Indiana where they were up by 15 after 3 but just couldn't finish it.

#824 jon abbey


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Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:49 PM

NY wins a squeaker in ATL with Chandler sitting out to get some rest (his first game out in months).

So NY went a remarkable 9-2 against the Eastern 3-9 seeds (IND/BOS/ATL/ORL/PHI/MIL) under Woodson.

#825 JohnnyTheBone

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:09 PM

So NY went a remarkable 9-2 against the Eastern 3-9 seeds (IND/BOS/ATL/ORL/PHI/MIL) under Woodson.

It's been impressive what Woodson has done. The Knicks have played hard, they've totally earned the right to get swept again in the first round.

#826 jon abbey


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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:16 PM

They still have a small chance to make it up to the #6 seed if they win their last two and Orlando loses their last two (one of which is against Charlotte).

#827 BigSoxFan


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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:30 PM

With the way Carmelo is playing, I think the Knicks are going to give the Heat a hell of a series.

#828 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:10 AM

Personally, I'm pulling for the Knicks to steal the 6 seed from Orlando.

I know the Knicks are becoming a popular underdog pick against Miami, but I'd much, much rather play Indiana. Nothing I saw in last Sunday's Heat-Knicks game inspired much confidence in me that the Knicks can beat the Heat in a 7 game series. I sincerely hope to be wrong about that.

#829 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:53 PM

Rumor today is that if the Knicks don't advance beyond round 1, Dolan will offer Phil Jackson 4 years and $50 million to lure him out of retirement. Currently, Doc Rivers' 5 year, $35 million dollar deal makes him the highest paid coach in the league.

#830 BigSoxFan


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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:13 PM

So, Amare severely cuts his hand punching a glass case after the game. NY would kill to get out of the remaining 3/65 left on his deal.

#831 86spike


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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:15 PM

With the way Carmelo is playing, I think the Knicks are going to give the Heat a hell of a series.


Shell of a series, maybe.

#832 RedOctober3829


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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:17 PM

So, Amare severely cuts his hand punching a glass case after the game. NY would kill to get out of the remaining 3/65 left on his deal.


He's in a sling and thought to be in some kind of cast.

#833 86spike


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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:19 PM

Maybe he was trying the slit his wrist and end it all.

#834 mikeford


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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:16 PM

Amar'e Stoudamire: Injuring himself in stupid ways since 2011

#835 jon abbey


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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:31 PM

Somehow it is Dolan's fault.

#836 AimingForYoko


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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:22 AM

So, Amare severely cuts his hand punching a glass case after the game. NY would kill to get out of the remaining 3/65 left on his deal.


To this I say :rolling:


Although it would be funnier if it happen to Wade.

I blame Isiah.

Edited by AimingForYoko, 01 May 2012 - 12:23 AM.


#837 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:59 AM

Frankly, it's addition by subtraction. Woodson's been playing the two of them together for 30+ minutes a night, and their offensive efficiency is much, much better with Carmelo at the 4 and Amare on the bench. The only way they were going to give the Heat a tough series was by going small anyhow--Woodson didn't do it in the first two games out of, I guess, loyalty to Amare--but now he's forced to. This really should make the Knicks better, unfortunately, it's probably still not gonna be enough to avoid a sweep.

#838 TheoShmeo


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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:52 AM

Frankly, it's addition by subtraction. Woodson's been playing the two of them together for 30+ minutes a night, and their offensive efficiency is much, much better with Carmelo at the 4 and Amare on the bench. The only way they were going to give the Heat a tough series was by going small anyhow--Woodson didn't do it in the first two games out of, I guess, loyalty to Amare--but now he's forced to. This really should make the Knicks better, unfortunately, it's probably still not gonna be enough to avoid a sweep.

I agree wholeheartedly. I was thinking before the series that the Knicks' only faint hope was an injury to Amare so that the offense could flow exclusively through Carmelo. That was a tough way to get to that result, but at least now the Knicks have some shot of winning a game or maybe even two. I doubt they will but now it's possible.

The bigger question in my book is whether Carmelo can ever prosper with another offensive force in the line-up. I see him as a classic catch 22 case of not being good enough to carry a team on his own or able to win with another elite scorer alongside him.

#839 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:35 AM

I agree wholeheartedly. I was thinking before the series that the Knicks' only faint hope was an injury to Amare so that the offense could flow exclusively through Carmelo. That was a tough way to get to that result, but at least now the Knicks have some shot of winning a game or maybe even two. I doubt they will but now it's possible.

The bigger question in my book is whether Carmelo can ever prosper with another offensive force in the line-up. I see him as a classic catch 22 case of not being good enough to carry a team on his own or able to win with another elite scorer alongside him.


I think it's possible, but not the way that Woodson has been going about it. He's relied too heavily on Carmelo isos. The way to do it would be to run an actual offense and use stretches of the game to go to Carmelo in isolation. It's just not sustainable to rely on one or two guys to create shots for themselves all game long. It wears Anthony down too much, and it takes your other players out of the flow of the offense. When was the last time the Knicks ran a play for Novak? When was the last time Chandler was used as the roll man in the pick and roll? Hell, when was the last time the Knicks ran a play to get Amare an open look from 15-20 feet? Knicks fans were furious with D'Antoni's failure to adapt his offense to his personnel, but Woodson's failure to adapt at all seems to be getting a free pass.

Woodson's entire offense is just ISO plays to Carmelo. There's only a single player in the NBA this season who has used a greater percentage on his possessions in isolation. And his name is JR Smith. That's Woodson's offense; ISO Carmelo, and when he's not on the floor, ISO JR Smith. And that's just not a winning strategy in this league. It's far too predictable and results in too many contested, difficult shots. Woodson needs to devise a way to create open looks for players other than Carmelo; he relies on Carmelo to play a point forward role the same way he did with Joe Johnson, but Carmelo doesn't really have that skill set. Personally, and I know I've said this to the point of it being annoying, I think this playoff series has really taken the sheen off of Woodson. He is what he's always been, clearly.

Edited by Grin&MartyBarret, 01 May 2012 - 11:36 AM.


#840 Statman

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 01:55 PM

Looks like Amare is done for the series which might not be a bad thing actually. He is playing worse than Vin Baker right now.

Howard Beck@HowardBeckNYT

Just landed back in NYC. Stoudemire met w/hand specialist. No serious damage, but he's done for series, according to person w/info.


https://twitter.com/#!/HowardBeckNYT

#841 Mystic Merlin


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Posted 01 May 2012 - 02:22 PM

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#842 jon abbey


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Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:04 PM

I think it's possible, but not the way that Woodson has been going about it. He's relied too heavily on Carmelo isos. The way to do it would be to run an actual offense and use stretches of the game to go to Carmelo in isolation. It's just not sustainable to rely on one or two guys to create shots for themselves all game long. It wears Anthony down too much, and it takes your other players out of the flow of the offense. When was the last time the Knicks ran a play for Novak? When was the last time Chandler was used as the roll man in the pick and roll? Hell, when was the last time the Knicks ran a play to get Amare an open look from 15-20 feet? Knicks fans were furious with D'Antoni's failure to adapt his offense to his personnel, but Woodson's failure to adapt at all seems to be getting a free pass.

Woodson's entire offense is just ISO plays to Carmelo. There's only a single player in the NBA this season who has used a greater percentage on his possessions in isolation. And his name is JR Smith. That's Woodson's offense; ISO Carmelo, and when he's not on the floor, ISO JR Smith. And that's just not a winning strategy in this league. It's far too predictable and results in too many contested, difficult shots. Woodson needs to devise a way to create open looks for players other than Carmelo; he relies on Carmelo to play a point forward role the same way he did with Joe Johnson, but Carmelo doesn't really have that skill set. Personally, and I know I've said this to the point of it being annoying, I think this playoff series has really taken the sheen off of Woodson. He is what he's always been, clearly.


None of this is wrong, but they almost literally have no point guard, and it's pretty damn difficult to run any kind of offense besides an ISO-centric one without a real PG.

#843 86spike


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Posted 01 May 2012 - 06:36 PM

That Office Space Gif is amazing

#844 Stu Nahan

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:33 AM

The fire extinguisher also has a Twitter account.

@AAAExtinguisher

#845 tims4wins


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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:22 AM

Posted Image

#846 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:34 AM

Chris Bosh may miss tonight's game to be back in Miami for the birth of his son.

#847 24JoshuaPoint


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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:31 AM

Hahahaha love the Office Space thing.

#848 Statman

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:05 PM

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Carmelo Anthony has the worst win percentage of ANY player that EVER played at least 50 playoff games (16-36, .308).

That's all I need to know about him as a so-called "superstar" player.

#849 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:31 AM

Well, this was probably inevitable, but it's still a short sighted, bad decision in my opinion.

http://probasketball..._medium=twitter

I think they needed to at least try to go after a Jerry Sloan, Phil Jackson, or Stan Van Gundy.

Edit: But in lieu of that, I think the Knicks should seriously consider hiring an "offensive coordinator" in much the same way they brought in Woodson to pair with D'Antoni initially. I have a feeling this will be the off-season that Brian Shaw ends up with a head coaching job, but if not bringing him in to be Woodson's top assistant and to install the triangle on offense would be a good idea.

Edited by Grin&MartyBarret, 08 May 2012 - 10:35 AM.


#850 Grin&MartyBarret

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:29 PM

Anytime you can play a guy who is 3-15 with 0 assists, 0 rebounds, and 0 steals for 33+ minutes, you gotta do it.

I hope to god that JR Smith opts out. The combination of him and Mike Woodson's ISO happy offense is disgusting to watch. He took twice as many shots tonight as Amare Stoudemire and Steve Novak combined. Just ugly, ugly basketball.




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