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Semi-Final: Spain vs Germany


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#1 ossie schreckengost

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 03:25 AM

footballwise spain vs germany is not steeped into history and stuff, it is not beholden to our ancestors and forbearers and all those generations to whom a warhammer and a mace made for political discourse.

there IS some history, of course, but it´s the good kind of history





#2 Zomp


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Posted 04 July 2010 - 07:21 AM

Ossie,

Who starts in place of Muller? In the tournament he was sort of playing off Klose, can Gomez do that? He's always underwhelmed me.

This is the first match where I'll be rooting for your boys. Fuck the arrogance of Spain.

Sorry for the kiss of death.

#3 ethangl

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 07:45 AM

QUOTE (ZompFoShomp @ Jul 4 2010, 07:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who starts in place of Muller? In the tournament he was sort of playing off Klose, can Gomez do that? He's always underwhelmed me.

I think Ossie has indicated that Marin would start, but Trochowski has been Muller's replacement the last 3 times he's been substituted. Definitely won't be Gomez.

#4 ossie schreckengost

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:48 AM

QUOTE (ethangl @ Jul 4 2010, 07:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think Ossie has indicated that Marin would start, but Trochowski has been Muller's replacement the last 3 times he's been substituted. Definitely won't be Gomez.


que dire alors?

i wish it was marin who started, but it will be trochowski. the "safe" version.

marko marin once used to play for my borussia mönchengladbach, and he´d be the guy to create all kinds of bother in&around the spanish defense from the start.

but with yogi löw you never know.

we did defeat england as well as argentina, so i will not argue with the yogi.

substitutionswise it will be according to the score (dööö...). we did trail once, and we lost that game. i still don´t know how we ( i love those guys to death) will be playing under pressure, under REAL pressure. trailing. cesc.

----------

there´s just 1 thing we can take for granted, that´s what ethangoal said:

"definetely won´t be gomez."

gomez is all, what we are not.



#5 Apisith

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 01:03 PM

Whoever wins this wins the Cup.

#6 Zososoxfan

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 01:02 AM

I'm really intrigued by this match up because although Germany has looked unstoppable on the counter, Spain's insanely possessive tactics could nullify one of the Krauts' strongest suits (set pieces being another for example). Tactically, I think this comes down to Germany's ability to maintain shape, dispossess Spain, transition quickly, and locate the space on the flanks to the wingers. If Spain can limit the German outlet passes and maintain possession in low-danger parts of the pitch, I think they'll eventually find a seam or draw a bad foul resulting in a goal. I think Germany will be able to accomplish this though and win the match 2-0, but I hope and can definitely see a Spanish team show that it has evolved enough to win the WC putting a Spanish spin on Catenaccio (the difference in the where the pressing should be focused) and win a 1-0, or 2-1 game.

#7 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 05 July 2010 - 03:32 AM

I think people forget that Germany never won a match on the counter. Counters made games triumphs for germany, but Germany took the lead on set plays and unlocking organized defenses.

#8 mikeford


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Posted 05 July 2010 - 08:50 AM

QUOTE (Apisith @ Jul 4 2010, 02:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whoever wins this wins the Cup.

I think the Oranje could defeat Spain... I'm not so sure anyone can defeat Germany with their current run of play.

#9 AusTexSoxFan

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:37 AM

Spain will have to play their best match of the tourney in order to defeat Germany.

I think Del Bosque has to consider benching Torres who has been ineffective the whole tournament. Rumor is that David Silva might be reinserted into the lineup.

#10 DLew On Roids


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Posted 05 July 2010 - 10:18 PM

QUOTE (Nick Kaufman @ Jul 5 2010, 04:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think people forget that Germany never won a match on the counter.

Franco-Prussian War.

#11 filthywater49

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 01:50 AM

QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Jul 5 2010, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Spain will have to play their best match of the tourney in order to defeat Germany.

I think Del Bosque has to consider benching Torres who has been ineffective the whole tournament. Rumor is that David Silva might be reinserted into the lineup.


I would love to see CESC played right underneath Villa in the middle, but I have a feeling that AGAIN Torres' reputation will win him another undeserved start in this tournament. He'd better finish, too, because as we all know, a slow start against Germany is fucking death.

The winner of this match will be the side that scores first. Both are nearly impossible to play against from behind. Germany shreds teams on the counter and Spain is impossible to get the fucking ball from if they don't have a reason to force the issue.

Edited by filthywater49, 06 July 2010 - 01:52 AM.


#12 nvalvo


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Posted 06 July 2010 - 03:13 AM

I think Spain wins a low-scoring affair with midfield possession and a good save or three, i.e. the same formula they used against Portugal and Paraguay.

Germany have looked very, very good. England were hugely overrated, but the trouncing of the Argentines was a real achievement. But can they convert at such a high rate all tournament?

#13 mikeford


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Posted 06 July 2010 - 09:33 AM

QUOTE (filthywater49 @ Jul 6 2010, 02:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would love to see CESC played right underneath Villa in the middle


Probably not gonna play at all

sad.gif

#14 mikeford


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Posted 06 July 2010 - 09:39 AM

Oh, also Paul has picked SPAIN to be the victor of the semi-final matchup

Take that, Germany

#15 AusTexSoxFan

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 03:37 PM

One thing I keep thinking about in regards to this game is this will be the first time that Spain is playing a team that won't be playing defensively against them.

All the other sides so far have parked the bus and played everyone back to stifle the Spanish attack.

Germany won't do that so that may allow more open space for Xavi and Iniesta to do their damage. Give those two enough room and they'll gut you.



#16 Infield Infidel


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Posted 06 July 2010 - 03:46 PM

The organizers were smart to put the two semis in Cape Town and Durban, two coastal cities. The winners of both games will then have to adjust to the altitude in Joburg.

#17 accidentalsuccess

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 05:53 PM

I feel Germany is playing better right now. The key to disrupting their game is to get up on them early and thus negate the counterattack to some degree. I don't know if Spain can do that, though. . . either way I expect a fantastic game.

#18 Infield Infidel


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Posted 06 July 2010 - 07:09 PM

If Spain win, it'll be the first time in 32 years that a World Cup has two finalists that haven't one a cup.
(It was also the last time the Netherlands was in the final)

#19 ifmanis5


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 06:21 AM

QUOTE (mikeford @ Jul 6 2010, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, also Paul has picked SPAIN to be the victor of the semi-final matchup

Take that, Germany

And that mollusk has yet to be wrong.

#20 ent5

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 07:14 AM

QUOTE (ifmanis5 @ Jul 7 2010, 04:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And that mollusk has yet to be wrong.



Actually the mollusk was wrong once before when he predicted a Germany win in the 2008 Euro cup final........against Spain

#21 ossie schreckengost

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 09:50 AM

it´s trochowski for müller.

i would have preferred the more offensive minded toni kroos.



#22 Dummy Hoy


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 10:02 AM

QUOTE (AusTexSoxFan @ Jul 6 2010, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One thing I keep thinking about in regards to this game is this will be the first time that Spain is playing a team that won't be playing defensively against them.

All the other sides so far have parked the bus and played everyone back to stifle the Spanish attack.

Germany won't do that so that may allow more open space for Xavi and Iniesta to do their damage. Give those two enough room and they'll gut you.


Spain's possession game really messed with the Germans in Euro 08- they had them chasing the ball all over the pitch. Of course Spain was playing better then and Germany wasn't close to their current form, but this should be Germany's biggest challenge.

#23 filthywater49

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 10:11 AM

QUOTE (Dummy Hoy @ Jul 7 2010, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Spain's possession game really messed with the Germans in Euro 08- they had them chasing the ball all over the pitch. Of course Spain was playing better then and Germany wasn't close to their current form, but this should be Germany's biggest challenge.



I think it's likely that Spain still dominate possession, win or lose. Germany's bread and butter, as we've already seen, will have to be set pieces and counterattacks. They will not be seeing a lot of the ball.

#24 ifmanis5


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 10:17 AM

QUOTE (ent5 @ Jul 7 2010, 08:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually the mollusk was wrong once before when he predicted a Germany win in the 2008 Euro cup final........against Spain

I meant in this World Cup.

I like The Fatherland in this one, 2-1.

#25 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:24 PM

Torres is on the bench, Pedro starting out on the wing.

#26 Zomp


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:26 PM

Even though I hate Spain and their arrogant fans, they do have the best anthem.

#27 Zomp


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:27 PM

and here's hoping Schweinstagger takes that cunt Pedro out by the knees.

#28 Fiskian Pole Shot

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:39 PM

I know it's a trite phrase, but has Schweinsteiger put a foot wrong in the whole tournament? I can only remember one of his passes going astray. He always seems to be in the correct position and always plays the smart pass. I knew he was good but he has been the player of the tournament for me.

Edited by Fiskian Pole Shot, 07 July 2010 - 01:40 PM.


#29 Dummy Hoy


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:42 PM

QUOTE (Fiskian Pole Shot @ Jul 7 2010, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know it's a trite phrase, but has Schweinsteiger put a foot wrong in the whole tournament? I can only remember one of his passes going astray. He always seems to be in the correct position and always plays the smart pass. I knew he was good but he has been the player of the tournament for me.


I didn't really know who he was before the tournament, but he has really impressed me, with and without the ball.

#30 URI


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:46 PM

QUOTE (Fiskian Pole Shot @ Jul 7 2010, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know it's a trite phrase, but has Schweinsteiger put a foot wrong in the whole tournament? I can only remember one of his passes going astray. He always seems to be in the correct position and always plays the smart pass. I knew he was good but he has been the player of the tournament for me.


Between Schweisteiger, Lahm and Mertersacker essentially playing mistake free soccer for an entire tournament...it shouldn't be a surprise they are so good on the counter-attack. Their entire offense is being funneled through three people being dominant for a solid 2/3rds of the field.

And that's without mentioning the obvious form of Ozil and Muller.

#31 Fiskian Pole Shot

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:51 PM

QUOTE (URI @ Jul 7 2010, 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Between Schweisteiger, Lahm and Mertersacker essentially playing mistake free soccer for an entire tournament...it shouldn't be a surprise they are so good on the counter-attack. Their entire offense is being funneled through three people being dominant for a solid 2/3rds of the field.

And that's without mentioning the obvious form of Ozil and Muller.


What really impresses me is the offensive positional fluidity of both Schweinsteiger and Ozil, moving into space as needed, then when they need to play defense they go back to their organized position. It's really quite a masterclass.

#32 MentalDisabldLst


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:52 PM

have there been any foul calls in the first 22 mins? seems to be a very clean and flopless match.

#33 Bosoxen


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:55 PM

Nice shot, asshole.

#34 Zomp


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:58 PM

Ramos could have been booked.

#35 Tony the Pony


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:59 PM

Schweinsteiggert was moved from the wing to a more central role at Bayern Munchen. At the WC he's been excellent, and the main reason Germany does not miss Ballack.

Would love to see a Spanish goal in the first half, so Germany will be forced to make the play more

#36 Zomp


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:06 PM

Villa is pissed.

#37 teddykgb

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:11 PM

In many ways this German setup is really modern football. The way their fullbacks launch into the play is not necessarily new, but it certainly seems to be a recipe for success right now. Not that they're beating Spain or anything, but man is it impressive to see the fullbacks launching forward into the play. You could make a good case that Inter plays a very similar style, along with a few others. The old 4-4-2 with stay at home defenders just doesn't seem to be enough anymore.

#38 Lose Remerswaal


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:14 PM

I'd love it if Spain would stop playing trying to settle this with penalty kicks.

ADVANCE THE BALL

#39 DukeSox


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:14 PM

QUOTE (teddykgb @ Jul 7 2010, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In many ways this German setup is really modern football. The way their fullbacks launch into the play is not necessarily new, but it certainly seems to be a recipe for success right now. Not that they're beating Spain or anything, but man is it impressive to see the fullbacks launching forward into the play. You could make a good case that Inter plays a very similar style, along with a few others. The old 4-4-2 with stay at home defenders just doesn't seem to be enough anymore.

Not that it's remotely similar, but we had great success with this strategy in high school. The opponents defenders just didn't know what to do with the extra man/men attacking and would generally get stuck in no mans land in between two attacking players, creating space for both of them. Of course, your midfielders need to be ready to drop back immediately in the case of a counter. Requires high fitness levels.

#40 MentalDisabldLst


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:17 PM

DukeSox, nobody cares how fit you were in high school.

Good first half, they're starting to fight a little harder. I agree with the no-call right there at the end on Ozil.

#41 Zomp


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:17 PM

Man...I dunno. There was some contact with Ramos and Ozil...not sure if it was enough. I think that could have gone either way.

#42 ifmanis5


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:18 PM

Ozil tripped over himself more than anything else. Good no call I think.

#43 Fiskian Pole Shot

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:20 PM

Halftime. A very interesting half. Both squads trying to play to their strengths. Spain is trying to play a possession and probe game, and have had a couple of chances. Germany is uber-organized defensively, but not in a "park the bus" negative way, and are looking for their chances on the counter. I've seen penalties given on the Ozil play at the end of the half but I can also see not giving it. Even the ref is having a great game, letting the players play and not becoming the story. Should be a good second half. Will Loew make tactical changes? Will Del Bosque bring on Cesc (if fit) or Torres?

#44 teddykgb

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:21 PM

There was enough contact that Spain should have to be careful about a similar play in the 2nd half. That's the sort of thing that only a good ref can properly meter, where they give you the benefit once or twice but you can get the accumulation foul later in the game. In that particular instance, a penalty would be weak to award, but Spain probably has to (and should have to be) be careful in their own box in the 2nd half

#45 URI


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:22 PM

QUOTE (Lose Remerswaal @ Jul 7 2010, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd love it if Spain would stop playing trying to settle this with penalty kicks.

ADVANCE THE BALL


They aren't. They are cycling the ball through their midfielders and using passing to unlock the German defense. They are chipping away at the Germans, not playing negatively.

#46 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:22 PM

QUOTE (teddykgb @ Jul 7 2010, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In many ways this German setup is really modern football. The way their fullbacks launch into the play is not necessarily new, but it certainly seems to be a recipe for success right now. Not that they're beating Spain or anything, but man is it impressive to see the fullbacks launching forward into the play. You could make a good case that Inter plays a very similar style, along with a few others. The old 4-4-2 with stay at home defenders just doesn't seem to be enough anymore.


Wtf? Did you notice Capdevililla and Ramos playing so high they re hanging the corner flag?

#47 ethangl

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:23 PM

QUOTE (ZompFoShomp @ Jul 7 2010, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Man...I dunno. There was some contact with Ramos and Ozil...not sure if it was enough. I think that could have gone either way.

Ramos certainly thought it was a penalty.

#48 EastCoasterOutWest


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:24 PM

QUOTE (Fiskian Pole Shot @ Jul 7 2010, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Halftime. A very interesting half. Both squads trying to play to their strengths. Spain is trying to play a possession and probe game, and have had a couple of chances. Germany is uber-organized defensively, but not in a "park the bus" negative way, and are looking for their chances on the counter. I've seen penalties given on the Ozil play at the end of the half but I can also see not giving it. Even the ref is having a great game, letting the players play and not becoming the story. Should be a good second half. Will Loew make tactical changes? Will Del Bosque bring on Cesc (if fit) or Torres?


Torres has been non-existent so far this tournament. I think his playing time is over. In limited play, Cesc has looked more dangerous.

#49 Fiskian Pole Shot

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:25 PM

QUOTE (EastCoasterOutWest @ Jul 7 2010, 02:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Torres has been non-existent so far this tournament. I think his playing time is over. In limited play, Cesc has looked more dangerous.


I definitely agree on both points but with only three bullets in his gun it will be interesting to see who Del Bosque brings on.

#50 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 07 July 2010 - 02:26 PM

QUOTE
They aren't. They are cycling the ball through their midfielders and using passing to unlock the German defense. They are chipping away at the Germans, not playing negatively.


Usually, looking for that extra pass is great, but Spain is the first team which makes me wish to pass the ball one time less. They just seem to look just for the perfect cross or shot opportunity and they just end up jungling the ball. It really does end up being boring.