111 replies to this topic

[bowiac]

Also, half the guys playing football (OL, DL, most LBs, QBs and TEs) are too big and slow to play soccer, and they would know it by age 10.

Is this really true? The "by age 10" part? I have a poor sense of how big kids are at that age, but it would seem pre-puberty would be too early, no?

[Infield Infidel]

Is this really true? The "by age 10" part? I have a poor sense of how big kids are at that age, but it would seem pre-puberty would be too early, no?

It's likely true for OLs and DLs that get scholarship offers by virtue of being 16 lbs at birth.

probably less so for the other positions.


Goal number one for the USMNT is winning next years Gold Cup so we can be in the Confed Cup in Brazil in 2013. I think last year's Confed was great experience for the team, if only to give them experience in the WC host country. Except South Africa, every team that advanced to the second round in the Confed (Spain, US, Brazil) advanced to the second round in the WC.

Edited by Infield Infidel, 27 June 2010 - 04:42 PM.

[loshjott]

In America, the money goes for basketball, football and baseball players. Only 204 Division I school even have varsity soccer programs. Of our two most lucrative conferences, the Big Ten has just seven varsity squads and the SEC has zero.

If you look at the NFL, a hugely disproportionate percentage of our elite athletes come from areas covered by the SEC, and they don't even have a college scholarship to aspire to. If you don't make the national squad, odds are good you can't make a decent living playing soccer in America.

Kids grow up exposed to soccer. Just set up a few cones and get a ball and you can play - there's almost no economic barrier. But by the time the kids reach junior high, they know if they're good at sports, they have chosen one of the big three, because that's how you get out and make a living.

Until we do more than build up a barely anything semi-professional league, this is what we're going to get. And I don't think there's anything wrong with it - I happen to like football a lot and I'd rather see our elite athletes playing.

The SEC has zero varsity soccer teams? That is astounding in the year 2010. It speaks volumes that the dominant athletic conference from the region of the US that produces so many pro baseball, football, and basketball players has not a single varsity soccer team. Wow. We're in deep shit, soccerwise, for a long time.

[URI]

SEC doesn't sponsor men's soccer. Kentucky and South Carolina both have teams in the CUSA.

[Dummy Hoy]

Edit-anyway, US Soccer organization starts with the director of USSF, not with the coach. If there's going to be a comprehensive re-organization of US Soccer, we'd need someone to replace Sunil Gulati. There is some promise with the new amateur/pro status regulations by the NCAA, which may help U-18s get more and better experience

This is where I'd like to see Klinsman. His vision and somewhat unique perspective on the US make him a good fit at the top, likely a better fit than as a field manager.

[SumnerH]

The SEC has zero varsity soccer teams? That is astounding in the year 2010. It speaks volumes that the dominant athletic conference from the region of the US that produces so many pro baseball, football, and basketball players has not a single varsity soccer team. Wow. We're in deep shit, soccerwise, for a long time.

it's like saying the Big East has no hockey teams--true but pointless. Teams that play bigtime SEC football/basketball play in other conferences in soccer. It's actually healthier for the sport than pretending that schools are equally good at all sports and having great basketball schools get screwed by football-driven realignments and so forth.

[Titans Bastard]

The SEC has zero varsity soccer teams? That is astounding in the year 2010. It speaks volumes that the dominant athletic conference from the region of the US that produces so many pro baseball, football, and basketball players has not a single varsity soccer team. Wow. We're in deep shit, soccerwise, for a long time.

Well, not really. It would be nice if big schools in SEC territory sponsored soccer, but the Deep South isn't exactly a soccer hotbed. Furthermore, Kentucky and South Carolina have teams that play in Conference USA. There are also decent programs in the form of Louisville, UAB, South Florida, Central Florida, and Florida International. The ACC is the strongest conference in college soccer. A bigger concern is that there's only one real Division 1 program in the entire state of Texas: SMU. And Texas IS a big hotbed. (Well, there's Houston Baptist, too...) Most big schools recruit nationally, though, and there are plenty of high-profile elite youth clubs in Texas.


But really, NCAA soccer is just one small piece of the puzzle. Fewer and fewer of our best players will be spending time in the college ranks anyway.

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

If you look at the NFL, a hugely disproportionate percentage of our elite athletes come from areas covered by the SEC, and they don't even have a college scholarship to aspire to. If you don't make the national squad, odds are good you can't make a decent living playing soccer in America.

Kids grow up exposed to soccer. Just set up a few cones and get a ball and you can play - there's almost no economic barrier. But by the time the kids reach junior high, they know if they're good at sports, they have chosen one of the big three, because that's how you get out and make a living.

This isn't the problem. We have 300 million people and enough athletes to go around. The problem is that too often we "just set up a few cones" as you say, rather than teaching kids how to be soccer players. Plus, all too often, the best kids waste their time playing against other kids with one tenth the ability.

Programs like the Bradenton Academy are helping, as wellbas the increasing popularity of sending kids overseas. But nothing will really replace having a network of youth clubs as in Europe or South America.

[soxfan121]

TonyThePony's post is probably the most well reactioned in the thread (its amazing what he can post when he's not trolling about phantom calls, eh?).

They played well, guys. Ghana is a good team and there was no shame in losing to them.

Bradley may have got the team selection wrong, and yeah, Ideally we'd like to replace him. I don't think Klinsmann is the answer (though I did a few years ago). His Bayern team was stacked and they and his German team seriously underachieved. Cruiff is not walking through that door and, sadly, I'm not sure what great coach would want to take on such an overhaul of a project.

The future doesn't look as bad as people are making it out to be. Jozy is only 20 years old and a physical specimen. If he can develop a little more of a poacher's mentality in front of the net I think he will be a great striker. Torres is young enough to still develop and become a force in the national team, and Michael Bradley will be the captain of this team sooner rather than later.

Our biggest needs are a striker partner for Jozy that can make runs off of him and create space, a pacy winger would be nice, and some young defenders. I love Demerit, but if Gooch can ever return to 100% he needs a better partner. Someone who can win back possession and control it.

I love this post. A few things to add and quibble with:

1. I think that for Michael Bradley to develop into the leader, captain and lead facilitator in 2014, Bob Bradley has to step-down and use that as his primary reason. "I'm grateful to have guided the team and want USA soccer to keep striding forward. Team USA needs Michael Bradley to develop and grow and the chance to coach my son at this level has been a dream come true. But like any 22 year old, Michael needs to leave the nest fully to develop into the great player I know he will be. Therefore, I am stepping down as the head coach of Team USA. It is best for Team USA and for my son to have new guidance and leadership as we move forward. Etc."

It's a graceful way for Bob to exit. And a graceful way to fall on his sword for a disappointing result that rests squarely with his roster and lineup construction decisions. And Michael has the best odds of being Team USA's best player in 2014; they will need his offensive game to develop a lot in 4 years, but I think he can do it. I was not a Michael Bradley fan before this tournament but the improvement from the ConFed Cup last year was apparent and dramatic. But also exhibited some tendency to be "Dad's will" on the pitch, instead of being himself.

2. Our biggest need is to develop finishers. I think that that Bradley (26) - Feilhaber (29) - Edu (25) form the basis of a very good midfield. Altidore will be 24 and Davies 28. Although I thought he was disturbingly ineffective, Findley will be 29. (Gomez will be 32, Buddle 33 and declining by then). Someone to teach this team how to finish scoring chances is priority 1A. Teach Altidore to finish. I also think that this USA team was the best received back home because of the attacking style they were forced to employ in every match. American fans want to see the team win and win with multiple goals and the personnel fits - if we can find a striker or two who can finish the chances Bradley & Feilhaber are creating.

3. Priority 1B is finding and coaching up an entirely new defensive 4. Bocanegra, Cherundulo & DeMerit will be 35 and none figure to age well. Bornstein will be 30 and he would need to vastly improve. Oneywu will be 32 and will be playing at the highest levels, so it's not inconceivable that he's the anchor. But given his injury and the fact that he looked as mobile as an anchor...it's possible none of these guys are even on the squad. (I think Boca's international retirement is less than a week away - he's not sleeping for the next month or more because of Gyan and that goal).

4. Who are the U-20 team members who might be a factor in 2014? Who can we find to coach if Bradley does the right thing and steps down? Will Klinsman's daily job interview on ESPN give him enough control with USSF to aggressively push top talent into European club development programs instead of the MLS?

[AusTexSoxFan]

What is happening at the Under-20 level in the US is that there is a strong push towards bringing in the kids who are dual citizens most of which are Mexican-American. Just look at the roster for the next U-20 camp in San Jose next month.

GOALKEEPERS

Edwards, Earl: UCLA
MacMath, Zac: University of Maryland
Perez, Justin: C.F. Monterrey

DEFENDERS

Flores, Cristian: C.F. Monterrey
Garza, Greg: Sporting Lisbon
Hot, Sacir: Boston College
Jean-Baptiste, Andrew: Albertson
Perry, Aubrey: University of South Florida
Saavedra, Gerardo: UW-Milwaukee
Valentin, Zarek: University of Akron
White, Ethan: Maryland

MIDFIELDERS

Batista, Kevyn: Desportivo Brasil,
Birnbaum, Steven: University of California
Garza, Victor: Tigres
Nungaray, Ernest: Monarcas Morelia
Orozco, Moises: Real So Cal
Powers, Dillon: University of Notre Dame
Romero, Roberto: Cruz Azul;
Shanosky, Conor: DC United

FORWARDS

Castillo, Julio: Cesar C.F. Monterrey
Jahn, Adam: Stanford University
Mendrano Williams, Ronald: L.D. Alajuelense
Ruelas, Adrian: Santos Laguna
Salgado, Omar: C.D. Guadalajara
-------------------------------------

If you are going to bring in a new coach, it better be one whose tactics are more in line with a Latin-style of play. That's where the future of US Soccer is headed for now.

I like Bob Bradley and I think he'd be a good coach for another year or two, but not for the next four and for another WC. Bruce Arena's message wore out by the time Germany 2006 came around and I think the same would happen with Bradley.

It would not surprise me if Sunil went with one already within the system like current U-17 coach Wilmer Cabrera.

As for younger players who could have an impact in 2014, I would submit this list:

Jack McInerney
Luis Gil
Omar Gonzalez
Gale Agboussoumande
Tyler Polak
Greg Garza
Mix Diskerud
Samir Badr (GK)
Francisco Navas
Stefan Jerome

Edited by AusTexSoxFan, 28 June 2010 - 10:40 AM.

[Infield Infidel]

I like Bob Bradley and I think he'd be a good coach for another year or two, but not for the next four and for another WC. Bruce Arena's message wore out by the time Germany 2006 came around and I think the same would happen with Bradley.

It would not surprise me if Sunil went with one already within the system like current U-17 coach Wilmer Cabrera.

I think you're right about Bradley. He should stay on until after next year's Gold Cup, and then go for a club job in Europe (he's mentioned that interest previously).

[EastCoasterOutWest]

Charlie Davies was missed. Sorely.

This may be one of the biggest factors in our inability to do much of anything up front. Altidore has no idea how to use his size to muscle out good chances and doesn't seem to be able to make anything out of half chances. McBride was the last guy I really felt was a true striker who could hold the ball up and finish.


In terms of youth development, I've always seen soccer as something passed down from parents. The greater portion of American parents focus on getting their kids into football, baseball, and basketball (and if you're up north, hockey), since those sports are the most lucrative and in the front of their minds. If your kid plays soccer, it's only for a couple years when they're very young, before they get to the right age to play something else. Most won't recognize that their child may have some real talent, and probably would balk at spending the money to send them to an academy if the kid's coach approached them about seriously developing their skills.

Until the view of soccer in the parent's minds changes, we'll never have anything more than a shallow pool from which to grow talent.

With the MLS ditching the reserve teams two years ago, they took a big step in the wrong direction. Until the money starts flowing into US Soccer (fans in seats), a more European approach (MLS team academies, youth and reserve teams) won't happen, which I think is a great way to bring up talent outside of the NCAA.

[Jimy Hendrix]

It seems to me that the US has conflicting short-term and long-term goals here, where in the near term we need to get players into foreign development systems as soon as possible to maximize their potential, but in the long term we need to keep raising the level of domestic play to the point where we don't need to do that.

Is there really a good way we can do those things simultaneously?

[gregl]

Until the view of soccer in the parent's minds changes, we'll never have anything more than a shallow pool from which to grow talent.

I would think that the ongoing barrage of research connecting football and brain damage will help. If there's such a slim chance the kid will be a pro anyway, why not encourage participation in a sport that will leave their brain fully functioning for the >99% chance they have to use it well into adulthood.

[Shelterdog]

Here's a question for the experts. How good is the MLS at this point? Is it comparable to a second division European league yet? Is it getting better/worse/staying the same?

[URI]

Here's a question for the experts. How good is the MLS at this point? Is it comparable to a second division European league yet? Is it getting better/worse/staying the same?

I think it's probably as good as League 1 in England, on average.

[Vinho Tinto]

It seems to me that the US has conflicting short-term and long-term goals here, where in the near term we need to get players into foreign development systems as soon as possible to maximize their potential, but in the long term we need to keep raising the level of domestic play to the point where we don't need to do that.

Is there really a good way we can do those things simultaneously?

Having a good domestic league would be beneficial, but not crucial. The South American leagues pale in comparison to Europe's big 4 (Brazil and Argentina's domestic leagues are about on par with Mexico's for quality of play); but that hasn't prevented them from playing well internationally.

I think the main ideas are those Klinnsman touched on this weekend: Building on a system that doesn't involve the NCAA to develop elite talent & marketing the game to more Americans outside the suburbs. They have tried to work on the first with the U-17 Camp; but there is more that can be done.

The second will take time to take hold since that involves changing cultural attitudes and continuting to build up youth infrastructures on a local level.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Will Edgar Castillo be a factor on defense for the next cycle? I've never seen him play but he's just 23 and I recall some enthusiasm at his decision to play for the US.

[jmcc5400]

Interesting discussion.

Forgive the ignorance - has the ship completely sailed on Rossi? Is it conceivable that his snub from the Italian team could lead to a pairing with the US side or are the bridges burned?

From my unschooled perspective, it seems like our chief problem is a talent deficit, but clearly we are beginning to develop players who can compete on high levels. Curious to see where Donovan goes from here and am very excited about the development of M. Bradley - who was in a very difficult position with the perception of nepotism etc., but who opened my eyes more than anyone else on the US team in terms of evolution as a player.

- jmcc5400

[Jed Zeppelin]

Interesting discussion.

Forgive the ignorance - has the ship completely sailed on Rossi? Is it conceivable that his snub from the Italian team could lead to a pairing with the US side or are the bridges burned?

Rossi's locked in to Italy, having played in competitive matches for the senior club. Castillo and Jermaine Jones only played in friendlies for Mexico and Germany, making them eligible to switch allegiance.

[URI]

He's played for the Italian senior team in FIFA-sanctioned events (Confed Cup for one). He's not eligible to play for the US.

He is, however, an easily hatable cunt.

[Jed Zeppelin]

He is, however, an easily hatable cunt.

Well, he is from New Jersey.

[sleepyjose03]

He's played for the Italian senior team in FIFA-sanctioned events (Confed Cup for one). He's not eligible to play for the US.

He is, however, an easily hatable cunt.

That makes me think. I wonder if some bad press about some of these guys (Subotic, Rossi, etc) would help influence future players one way or the other. I feel like outside of soccer circles nobody really knows about players like this playing for other countries. Perhaps a little vilifying them in the press would help keep more players to represent the US. I mean, sure, its secondary to something like the USSF sucking less, but hey - every little bit helps.

[EastCoasterOutWest]

It seems to me that the US has conflicting short-term and long-term goals here, where in the near term we need to get players into foreign development systems as soon as possible to maximize their potential, but in the long term we need to keep raising the level of domestic play to the point where we don't need to do that.

Is there really a good way we can do those things simultaneously?

I believe this is up to those foreign development systems to decide. We can't force them to take our kids. Unless you're talking about parents footing the bill to send them to some kind of training academy, and you're back to $$ vs parents really caring about soccer.

[dwightinright]

USSF President: US team did not live up to expectations

The article also mentions the USSF met with Fabio Capello 3 years ago about a possible role:

He also revealed he met with Fabio Capello three years ago about a possible job before the Italian agreed to become England's coach. Gulati said the meeting in London included Bradley and Capello's son, and the discussion was about a position as director of soccer or working with youth teams.

[URI]

That makes me think. I wonder if some bad press about some of these guys (Subotic, Rossi, etc) would help influence future players one way or the other. I feel like outside of soccer circles nobody really knows about players like this playing for other countries. Perhaps a little vilifying them in the press would help keep more players to represent the US. I mean, sure, its secondary to something like the USSF sucking less, but hey - every little bit helps.

Well, I don't think the two are really analogus.

I mean, first, no one has heard of Subotic...and he's a Bosnian-Serb. The only reason his family migrated here was after they were going to get kicked out of Germany due to a visa experation. The fact he was in play for the US at all was completely happenstance. Sure, Rongen didn't help matters by shitting all over him (for the unintitiated, Rongen said that Subotic wasn't progressing at an acceptable level, and didn't select him for the U-20 WC team), but it's not like Subotic turned his back on the country where he was born and raised.

Rossi, despite being born and raised in Clifton, NJ, had his heart set on playing for Italy, and not even letting the American's at the table...even after the Italians dropped him from the youth teams when he moved from Parma to ManU. So, despite being dropped by the youth teams...Rossi still had his heart set on playing for the country of his parent's birth...which would be commendable if they were interested in him at all until he started kicking ass for United's reserves.

I don't blame either one for the decisions they make, really, but Subotic was pushed out, essentially, and went to Serbia. Rossi was pushed out by Italy (twice really, when you consider he was dropped for this World Cup), and leveraged the United States (his "If the US call me for Germany, I'll consider it" statement) to force Italy's hand. It's unseemly for people that care about this countries soccer standing. And he's a Jersey cunt.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Should the Federation be concerned with developing a consistent identity and style of play? Or will that have to wait until the arrival of the elite players we hope to develop? Talent is most important but for the last two Cups I saw a team that wasn't sure what it wanted to be until early goals forced their hand.

[Shelterdog]

Well, I don't think the two are really analogus.

I mean, first, no one has heard of Subotic...and he's a Bosnian-Serb. The only reason his family migrated here was after they were going to get kicked out of Germany due to a visa experation. The fact he was in play for the US at all was completely happenstance. Sure, Rongen didn't help matters by shitting all over him (for the unintitiated, Rongen said that Subotic wasn't progressing at an acceptable level, and didn't select him for the U-20 WC team), but it's not like Subotic turned his back on the country where he was born and raised.

Isn't the obvious right strategy with a kid like this to get him into a competitive game ASAP, if only for a minute, thus ensuring he only plays for the US in the future? Knowing shit about this guy it's completely plausible that he turns into a good player five years from now, and it wouldn't it be nice if his only national team option was USA?

EDIT: And I now see that you only get "captied" if you participate in a handful of FIFA tournaments for the senior national team, so my point is only going to be applicable in a small handful of cases, and wouldn't apply to an ok 20 year old who's nowhere close to being able to play for a national team in a major tournament.

Edited by Shelterdog, 28 June 2010 - 01:25 PM.

[teddykgb]

Should the Federation be concerned with developing a consistent identity and style of play? Or will that have to wait until the arrival of the elite players we hope to develop? Talent is most important but for the last two Cups I saw a team that wasn't sure what it wanted to be until early goals forced their hand.

I think the identity flows from the players, and the identity for this team has been largely the same under Bradley. They've been a counter attacking bunch who lacked a lot of finishing and generally put in a full shift. They play hard and they bunker down and try to weather the storm. When successful, they're capable of beating anyone. They basically try to earn results with effort, fortitude, and a little luck. Which is probably not far from what they need to be as long as their main strengths are goalkeeping, midfielders, and fitness.

At the end of the day, we haven't been able to credibly attack many teams for a while now. Even in our best runs last year we were mostly counter punching--our CBs were healthy and playing better then which elevated us and allowed our countering style to play more effectively. In this sense, Altidore does deserve some credit as he's generally been a guy who has been pretty good as a target man (as someone who watched Adebayor week in and week out last year, I wish Adebayor could play that role as effectively as Jozy, but still keep his ability to actually score) and that was where the emergence of Davies really made us more complete -- he could run off of Altidore who wasn't a bad target man and poach us a few more.

Going forward, I think we just need talent, so I don't think we can establish yet a formation or an identity. You would think that given our athletic strengths as a nation, we should be able to eventually do this, but it does take generations. Players of Onyewu's stature and abilities probably become more of 'the norm' for the US, but it really takes a while for these guys to be identified, trained, tested, and ultimately surface at the world stage. And if you screw it up once or twice, it takes even longer. I think this is why the NCAA thing is harder for us, many other nations get to avoid mistakes because most of their national candidates do get to play in european leagues of enough quality to get a more solid understanding of their talent levels. The youth setups in europe do seem to almost guarantee that any of their youngsters worth a shot will get a good run to prove themselves. Our youth don't get to that stage until much, much later and that has to cost us something, as it forces us to make evaluations in ignorance and probably much earlier than other countries, in a sense. I'm really developing these thoughts as I type them, but in this sense I look at Donovan's loan spell at Everton as maybe a paradigm for us to follow. I'm not sure how much influence US Soccer can have to make this happen, but placing a premium on getting some of our players who are maybe in the u-20 setup into the European leagues even on loan (not really top divisions in most cases, obviously) might allow us to reap some serious benefits, which, interestingly, seems to be sort of the same struggle Klinnsmann had with the proposed US job, because it will require MLS cooperation, which is tough because they're a business and loaning their players out for the good of US soccer doesn't do much for the bottom lines of those franchises. Still, I feel like there's some opportunity there to have the American season schedule somehow make it more plausbile for our guys to be European refreshments/replacements on loan spells to up the experience level of our youth prior to international play.


edit: while i'm writing a US Soccer manifesto and before anyone has replied to it, two thoughts on Bradley and team selection. I think that the US coach position is incredibly difficult, in that playing a rugged, disciplined counter attacking style is probably a way that we can ensure that we qualify for every major tournament and can continue to play back and forth with Mexico in CONCACAF. The challenge is that this isn't leading to fielding a team that is likely to be successful in the biggest ways, but it's not like you can go to the WC and go away from what got you there, which I think leads to an overall preference for less flashy players and more disciplined ones. Where US fans are screaming for Torres, Edu, Adu and other players with some of that capability to make something from nothing, it sort of behooves the US coach to select the Ricardo Clark's of the world because they can assuredly compete for qualification with those types. If there's one criticism of Bradley that I think is valid, it's that he hasn't been able to develop the creative players we need, possibly because he hasn't gotten good enough creative players, but also possibly because he hasn't shown a willingness to stick to/with those types (adu aside, who at this point is an outlier to the argument). Essentially, players like his son have a chance, because on his worst day he's a no nonsense gritty MFer and on his best he can really direct play, but guys who aren't in this mold struggle to crack the lineups.

In terms of shape, maybe this is where the exploits lie. In general, fans of soccer probably care too much about shape, but if our strengths are in fitness and strong players, maybe there is room for taking a more unconventional shape as is becoming more and more popular these days. A focus on producing fullbacks who can get forward and join the play might allow us to organize differently and create offense in different ways than passing through the midfield or just playing hopeless long balls to our target man. It's hard to know if US soccer players can become sufficiently capable with the ball to possess enough to allow fullbacks to be able to effectively join the play, but it would be nice to see Bradley or any other coach experiment with these sorts of things. Ultimately, as stated before, we just need the personnel, but now that the WC is over and ultimately half succeeded and half failed, we have an opportunity now to maybe experiment a bit and try out a few things with some youth and some creativity and see if we can't find something we couldn't otherwise look at when qualification was so paramount.

Edited by teddykgb, 28 June 2010 - 01:57 PM.

[Titans Bastard]

Here's a question for the experts. How good is the MLS at this point? Is it comparable to a second division European league yet? Is it getting better/worse/staying the same?

MLS is decent. Clubs are getting better at finding cheap international talent, particularly from points south, like Colombia. We've had a few strong draft classes in a row (even as other young players head to Europe) and it seems as though our youth system is churning out a little more quality. Still, the league has expanded quite a bit (Toronto 2007, San Jose 2008, Seattle 2009, Philly 2010, Portland 2011, Vancouver 2011, Montreal 2012) and so that will take its toll on league talent. It's not a horrible place to be and when a real reserve league system comes back, it will be much more hospitable for young players.

As to how it compares to a "European League", you'll have to specify what league you are referring to. MLS is better than the Austrian second division by a long shot, but it's not as good as the Championship. It's hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison because MLS squads tend to lack depth compared to their European counterparts and play less rigorous schedules. Furthermore, the salary cap makes for a league with a lot of parity. The distribution of talent makes the good teams less good and the bad teams less bad than the typical good and bad teams in a Euro league (relatively speaking). I think most MLS squads would do quite well in League One and some would survive in the Championship if they could build a deeper squad.

4. Who are the U-20 team members who might be a factor in 2014? Who can we find to coach if Bradley does the right thing and steps down? Will Klinsman's daily job interview on ESPN give him enough control with USSF to aggressively push top talent into European club development programs instead of the MLS?

It's too early to tell with the U-20 kids. Rongen has cast an even wider than usual net this cycle and he's still in the identification stage so our actual U-20 team hasn't come together yet. We are more than a year away from the U-20 tournament, but we already have a surprisingly large group of guys who are professional or at least in professional academies in Europe.

GK
Samir Badr (FC Porto), Cody Cropper (Ipswich Town), Justin Perez (C.F. Monterrey), Alexander Tampakis (Panathinaikos), Angelo Viteritti (ChievoVerona)

DF
Gale Agbossoumonde (Sporting Braga), Cristian Flores (C.F. Monterrey), Greg Garza (Sporting CP), Sebastian Troupe (Bærum), Korey Veeder (Crystal Palace Baltimore), Parker Walsh (Karlsruher), Cesar Zamora (Chivas USA)

MF
Erik Benjaminsen (Stabæk), Christian Castaneda (Hertha Berlin), Lester Dewee (Olympique Marseille), Bryan Dominguez (Miami FC), Victor Garza (Tigres), Josh Gatt (SCR Altach), Luis Gil (Real Salt Lake), Joseph-Claude Gyau (Hoffenheim), Michael Hoyos (Estudiantes), Sebastian Lletget (West Ham United), Alex Molano (Dinamo Zagreb), Francisco Navas (Houston Dynamo), Ernest Nungaray (Monarcas Morelia), Amobi Okugo (Philadelphia Union), Will Packwood (Birmingham City), George Pantelic (FK Rad), Fabrice-Jean Picault (Cagliari), Charles Renken (Hoffenheim), Roberto Romero (Cruz Azul), Guillermo Torres (Pachuca)

FW
Juan Agudelo (New York Red Bulls), Tristan Bowen (Los Angeles Galaxy), Terrence Boyd (Hertha Berlin), Julio Cesar Castillo (C.F. Monterrey), Fuad Ibrahim (Toronto FC), Stefan Jerome (Miami FC), Jack McInerney (Philadelphia Union), Adrian Ruelas (Santos Laguna), Omar Salgado (Chivas), Bobby Wood (1860 Munich)


We also have a couple of serious GK prospects in the NCAA (Earl Edwards -- UCLA and Zac MacMath -- Maryland). There are always some NCAA guys who turn out to be better than most of the guys with a sexy club next to their name. Clint Dempsey was a bench player at the U-20 level!



The USSF's primary goal shouldn't be to push top level talent to Euro clubs. It's already happening, but there are too many barriers to entry for it to be a viable solution. If you don't have a Euro passport, there's simply no way to latch onto a UK club and if you don't have a Euro passport it can be tough to move until you turn 18. There's a lot of important development that takes place before then. That's what is truly broken and that's what the USSF needs to be working on.

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Having a good domestic league would be beneficial, but not crucial. The South American leagues pale in comparison to Europe's big 4 (Brazil and Argentina's domestic leagues are about on par with Mexico's for quality of play); but that hasn't prevented them from playing well internationally.

I would say the difference is that those countries had vibrant domestic leagues prior to the 1980s that were probably every bit as good as their European equivalents. It was only when European teams started poaching talent from around the world that the Argentine and Brazilian leagues dropped significantly below England or Spain or Italy. Players like Pele and Garrincha basically played their entire careers in their domestic leagues. Today, those players would be snapped up by ManU or Barca before they hit 20.

So the difference is that Argentina and Brazil were able to develop intense local football cultures long before the globalization of soccer. The circumstance in which the US is attempting to do the same, and what roll the MLS plays in that happening, are completely different.

Edited by Philip Jeff Frye, 28 June 2010 - 06:10 PM.

[filthywater49]

I think the most important thing is changing the way we teach young players. That requires really training coaches, referees, and players alike. I loved playing youth soccer and other than basketball in the winter, its all I knew. My youth coaches were awesome awesome guys that taught me a lot about the game. That being said, I think I had the typical American soccer player upbringing. I focused on team play and success, rather than my individual skill on the ball. Nowhere else in the youth stages around the world do players concentrate so much on just the team aspect. The focus at the younger ages needs to be about skill on the ball, with less of a concern on winning and losing.

"Mike from Hartford" said this exact same thing on World Football Daily. Was this you? I agree, by the way. The other big difference as far as youth mentality goes (at least from what I hear) is the whole "everybody plays" thing. It's terrible for finding and developing elite players.

[BelgianSoxFan]

It seems to me though that soccer players become "professional players" at a much earlier age than most American sports. Messi came to Barcelona at 13, C. Ronaldo moved to Sporting at the age of 12, Rooney was signed by Everton when he was 10 and it is not only the stars. They do not play baseball, basketball or hockey, half of their school day is spent at the academy. There are no NCAA limitations on practice or pretense of academic achievement. Soccer is a largely middle class sport in the US as has been discussed. It is a good thing American parents are not as eager to send their kids to a soccer factory at the age of 10. It does slow down the development of the sport, but I would not allow my kid to give up on college or anything but soccer when they are 10 years old.

[Billy R Ford]

Not really news, but one place the US won't be going is Copa America 2011- only this time, the US hasn't been invited, rather than declined the invitation they've customarily gotten. CONMEBOL apparently didn't want another US "B" team like in 2007, which is unsurprising.

Related to this, one idea I heard floated out there was to get the Gold Cup pushed back a year so the full USMNT would play in a competitive tournament every year:

2011: Copa America
2012: Gold Cup
2013: WC Qualifying and possibly Confederations Cup
2014: World Cup (and Gold Cup if it retains the every-two-years format)

Though obviously very unlikely to happen, it would be pretty good for American soccer since it might help hold interest in the national team in non-World Cup years. Or it won't, since no one watches the Gold Cup anyway, but things might change with more consistent play from the MNT.

[CJChap]

"Mike from Hartford" said this exact same thing on World Football Daily. Was this you? I agree, by the way. The other big difference as far as youth mentality goes (at least from what I hear) is the whole "everybody plays" thing. It's terrible for finding and developing elite players.

Wasn't me.

I guess the "everybody plays" issue really depends on the age, in my opinion. And the talent level of the team/league.

[idontlikecricketiloveit]

"Mike from Hartford" said this exact same thing on World Football Daily. Was this you? I agree, by the way. The other big difference as far as youth mentality goes (at least from what I hear) is the whole "everybody plays" thing. It's terrible for finding and developing elite players.

The difference in youth setups was one of the main points of this Times Magazine article from a few weeks ago. It's quite long, but very well-written.

GK
Samir Badr (FC Porto), Cody Cropper (Ipswich Town), Justin Perez (C.F. Monterrey), Alexander Tampakis (Panathinaikos), Angelo Viteritti (ChievoVerona)

I remember reading an article about this goalkeeper named Abdul Hamid who tried out for Celtic. 6 foot 4, 230 pounds. Is he no longer a prospect?

[URI]

He plays for DC United.

[Titans Bastard]

I remember reading an article about this goalkeeper named Abdul Hamid who tried out for Celtic. 6 foot 4, 230 pounds. Is he no longer a prospect?

Hamid was born in 1990, so he's not eligible for the U-20 team. Obviously there are a number of guys who are too old for the U-20s but who are still young, talented and on the rise. Bill Hamid now plays for DC where he's made a few starts in place of Troy Perkins. He's young and raw, but he's a great raw talent. Projecting teenage GKs is kind of like projecting high school catchers: it's damn hard, but Hamid looks good. At this point he's looking like the frontrunner to be our top U23 GK for the Olympics (although we usually end up taking an overage GK to start).

U-23 eligible pros who are too old for the current U-20 cycle:
GK
Joseph Bendik (Sogndal), Bill Hamid (DC United), Sean Johnson (Chicago Fire), Josh Lambo (Tampa Bay Rowdies), Brian Perk (Philadelphia Union)

DF
Kyle Davies (FC Dallas), Greg Eckhardt (VPS), Giuseppe Nazzani (Bologna), Ike Opara (San Jose Earthquakes), Miguel Angel Ponce (Chivas), Anthony Wallace (FC Dallas)

MF
Isaac Acuna (Club America), Freddy Adu (Aris Thessaloniki), Bryan Arguez (Miami FC), Hagop Chirishian (AC St. Louis), Danny Cruz (Houston Dynamo), Mix Diskerud (Stabæk), Dilly Duka (Columbus Crew), Jorge Flores (Chivas USA), Blair Gavin (Chivas USA), Jared Jeffrey (Mainz 05), Gerson Mayen (Chivas USA), Alfredo Morales (Hertha Berlin), Alex Nimo (Portland Timbers), Brek Shea (FC Dallas), Michael Stephens (Los Angeles Galaxy), Daniel Williams (SC Freiburg)

FW
Jozy Altidore (Villarreal), Steven Cabas (Miami FC), Kenneth Di Vita Jensen (Hønefoss), Felix Garcia (Laredo Heat), Peri Marosevic (Austin Aztex), Tony Taylor (Estoril-Praia), Andrew Wiedeman (FC Dallas)



There are some guys who are a little older who are also highly promising. Omar Gonzalez is a 6'5" defender who played very well for LA in his rookie year. Eric Lichaj (Aston Villa) was very impressive on loan at Lincoln City and Leyton Orient and could be in the 1st team picture this year (right back). So we'll see. At the very beginning in the cycle, we have to take a wide view of the player pool, but as time passes we'll see which young guys can take the next step and which can't.

[twothousandone]

Jurgen Klinsmann just made a couple of interesting points. First, he said U.S. Soccer has to promote professional soccer as a goal (as opposed to high school and college soccer). Basically he said we need to raise the bar, and have younger players dream bigger. Second, he said we need to promote the sport more among our lower class citizens (making a direct comparison to basketball). He noted that worldwide soccer is a lower class sport. He said developing skilled players out of this population would be an important development.

I saw that segment, and Klinsmann said a lot in just a few seconds. (He even used "we" when discussing the US.) But Tirico missed a great opportunity (they were running out of time) to get a point blank response from Lalas. Lalas was a product of the system Klinsmann was critiquing, among it's best output to that point, and the output has gotten better. He then was in a management position and got to work with output, facing "global" competition. I wish they would have stayed on that point, because klinsmann was focusing on sports, society and the long-term. Lalas can provide context aroung 4-8 years.

The US can pretty much count on being in every four years. I realize that's due to a weak region, but it's a step up over the last 20 years. The US is now probably as good as Mexico, except when they play in Mexico City. It's probably fair to say they are as good as Switzerland and probably better than Russia and most of eastern Europe, in that sense. The next step is to get good enough to escape group play reliably every time around.

But who is in that category? Italy (maybe France) since it's not really an "always." Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Holland. England? Spain? That's a heck of a next step, to join that kind of company.

[Spacemans Bong]

It seems to me though that soccer players become "professional players" at a much earlier age than most American sports. Messi came to Barcelona at 13, C. Ronaldo moved to Sporting at the age of 12, Rooney was signed by Everton when he was 10 and it is not only the stars. They do not play baseball, basketball or hockey, half of their school day is spent at the academy. There are no NCAA limitations on practice or pretense of academic achievement. Soccer is a largely middle class sport in the US as has been discussed. It is a good thing American parents are not as eager to send their kids to a soccer factory at the age of 10. It does slow down the development of the sport, but I would not allow my kid to give up on college or anything but soccer when they are 10 years old.

Most European continental clubs tend to put forth some sort of academic program for their students. Ajax and Barcelona are famous for theirs.

Of course, Messi, Ronaldo and Rooney are bad examples for you. Those guys would have been totally wasting their time in college for the same reason no one gives a shit that Bryce Harper isn't going to get a college degree.

[URI]

Plus, if Rooney didn't become a pro in soccer, it's not like he likely would have finished high school. He'd be working for BP...either pumping gas or in the board room.

[Spacemans Bong]

Plus, if Rooney didn't become a pro in soccer, it's not like he likely would have finished high school. He'd be working for BP...either pumping gas or in the board room.

Hey-o!

Seriously though, he did leave school with 0 GCSEs, so he wasn't going to university no matter what he did. Besides, by the time he left school he was practically in the Everton first team.

[URI]

Hey-o!

Seriously though, he did leave school with 0 GCSEs, so he wasn't going to university no matter what he did. Besides, by the time he left school he was practically in the Everton first team.

I just did a golf swing. But the fact remains that if not for soccer, Rooney would more likely be Jack the Ripper than Richard Bronson.

Especially given his penchant for prostitutes.

[EastCoasterOutWest]

I just did a golf swing. But the fact remains that if not for soccer, Rooney would more likely be Jack the Ripper than Richard Bronson.

Especially given his penchant for prostitutes.

Are we talking about Rooney or Joey Barton?

[SoxFanInCali]

Are we talking about Rooney or Joey Barton?

Joey Barton is practically Jack the Ripper, even with soccer.

[ifmanis5]

Rooney would more likely be Jack the Ripper than Richard Bronson.

Is that some kind of robot hybrid of Richard Branson and Charles Bronson?

[BelgianSoxFan]

Most European continental clubs tend to put forth some sort of academic program for their students. Ajax and Barcelona are famous for theirs.

Of course, Messi, Ronaldo and Rooney are bad examples for you. Those guys would have been totally wasting their time in college for the same reason no one gives a shit that Bryce Harper isn't going to get a college degree.

Of course there is an "academic" program to the youth academies, otherwise the kids would not be getting their legally required education. From what I understand they get half a day of academic education and half a day of football education. There is very little information about the schools (even in Dutch). I could not find any praise about the academic part of the Ajax academy. 90% of the students in the Ajax academy do not graduate to Ajax I. Those who don't, don't generally finish high school. The academic part of their schooling is the equivalent of vocational schooling (beroepsonderwijs), which is a great alternative if you are training to be a hairdresser, but if you train to be a football player and you don't make it, it blows for you. For the American sports, kids do not make that decision at 13.

I just picked those players because I could find something about their history. Bryce Harper is 17, he is (almost) fully grown. I know he was a little league star and has been represented by Boras at 15. But he is also a generational talent, who was huge at an early age. Many football players have not finished middle school by the time they have to make the choice.

Edited by BelgianSoxFan, 29 June 2010 - 05:40 PM.

[URI]

Is that some kind of robot hybrid of Richard Branson and Charles Bronson?

Sorry to disappoint, but it was merely a typo. Rooney looks too English to be a Tatar.

[JKelley34]

Of course there is an "academic" program to the youth academies, otherwise the kids would not be getting their legally required education. From what I understand they get half a day of academic education and half a day of football education. There is very little information about the schools (even in Dutch). I could not find any praise about the academic part of the Ajax academy. 90% of the students in the Ajax academy do not graduate to Ajax I. Those who don't, don't generally finish high school. The academic part of their schooling is the equivalent of vocational schooling (beroepsonderwijs), which is a great alternative if you are training to be a hairdresser, but if you train to be a football player and you don't make it, it blows for you. For the American sports, kids do not make that decision at 13.

I just picked those players because I could find something about their history. Bryce Harper is 17, he is (almost) fully grown. I know he was a little league star and has been represented by Boras at 15. But he is also a generational talent, who was huge at an early age. Many football players have not finished middle school by the time they have to make the choice.

The NYT had a very illuminating profile of the Ajax academy right before the World Cup that delves into a ton of details.

Ajax Academy

[BrazilianSoxFan]

Of course there is an "academic" program to the youth academies, otherwise the kids would not be getting their legally required education. From what I understand they get half a day of academic education and half a day of football education. There is very little information about the schools (even in Dutch).

I don't know how the scholl system in the netherlands works, but in Brazil the "school day" normally goes from 07:00 to 11:30 or 13:00 to 17:30. The other rest of the day is used for extra-curricular activities, but at full discretion the kid and the parents.

In middle and upper class it's usual to learn a second language 2, 3 times a week and a sport in a club the rest of the week. But on the lower classes, when the parents can't afford to pay for such things, if the kid isn't good enough to get a scholarship (even a sports one) he is basically left for himself.