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They draw lots?


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#1 Lose Remerswaal


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 08:17 AM

From the Media board:

QUOTE (URI @ Jun 24 2010, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why? They were level on everything else. The last tie breaker for the NFL playoffs is a coin flip too.


So after goal differential, head to head goals, total goals scored, they go to drawing lots (or a coin flip). At least in the NFL there are many more tiebreakers before it gets down to that coin flip that URI references, and it's never happened. Nor has it in the World Cup, but it seems much more likely.

I'm surprised that, since the Cup goes back quite some time, they didn't set up other tiebreakers. Maybe they don't make a ton of sense, but better than a coin flip or drawing lots. Fewest Red Cards. Fewest Yellow Cards. Fewest Fouls. Most shots. Most Corners.

I thought maybe a sudden death match between tied teams would work, but since the 4 teams involved are playing at separate locations, that would be hard to arrange.

What would folks who know alot more about the game than I do think would work best in case the tiebreakers don't break the tie?



1. Total number of points

2. Goal difference in all group matches

3. Goals scored in all group matches

4. Head-to-head results of tied teams

5. Goals scored in matches between tied teams

6. Drawing of lots

#2 simplyeric


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 09:46 AM

QUOTE (Lose Remerswaal @ Jun 24 2010, 09:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought maybe a sudden death match between tied teams would work, but since the 4 teams involved are playing at separate locations, that would be hard to arrange.

What would folks who know alot more about the game than I do think would work best in case the tiebreakers don't break the tie?


Sudden death would be hard to pull off...a whole game format, the potential for a long drawn-out affair.

But a close proxy could be a shoot-out. In this age, travel isn't a big deal (make both travel to the most equally convenient location), and a shoot-out would be less taxing to the teams as a whole. The whole thing would make great television, and would be comparatively brief compared to a full format.

If nothing else, it makes them settle it on the field.



#3 URI


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 09:55 AM

I thought you wanted to get away from a coin flip, and you want to go to a shoot out?

#4 phrenile


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 10:46 AM

There are only a few ways to meaningfully measure performance in a short number of round robin football games, where everyone in the group plays the same schedule and there's only one way to score a goal. Once you've exhausted those methods, you can go straight to an arbitrary result generator (lots/shootouts) or start considering arbitrary statistics. Either way, the result is going to be arbitrary. So you might as well stick with lots/shootouts, of which drawing lots is the easier method to administer.

#5 jose melendez


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:17 AM

How about fewest yellow cards for flopping?

#6 EastCoasterOutWest

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:18 AM

Fixed bayonet charge?

#7 jose melendez


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:20 AM

QUOTE (EastCoasterOutWest @ Jun 24 2010, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fixed bayonet charge?


That would upset me. As V&N readers know, I've declared war on the bayonet charge.

#8 EastCoasterOutWest

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:22 PM

QUOTE (jose melendez @ Jun 24 2010, 09:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That would upset me. As V&N readers know, I've declared war on the bayonet charge.


Hmm. Perhaps land mines in the pitch and which ever team gets from end to end with a full squad makes it through?

#9 Tony the Pony


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:37 PM

QUOTE (Lose Remerswaal @ Jun 24 2010, 09:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
At least in the NFL there are many more tiebreakers before it gets down to that coin flip that URI references, and it's never happened. Nor has it in the World Cup...


It has happened in the World Cup.

Back in 1990 they drew lots; Ireland ended up playing Romania in the second round, The Netherlands played Germany. That group was 1 Egyptian goal away from having a 4-way tie.

#10 loshjott

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 08:20 AM

What's unusual and very different from the NFL, is that head to head is down on the list of tie breakers. Spain and Switzerland could both finish with 6 points and Spain could advance, even though they lost to the Swiss.

#11 RedSoxandBlueStripes

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 08:36 AM

Not unusual at all in terms of football. I remember when Real won the league over Barca on head to head, most English writers thought it a travesty, and not only should GD have been used, but that it was obviously so and would have been much fairer.

#12 Lose Remerswaal


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Posted 25 June 2010 - 09:09 AM

QUOTE (loshjott @ Jun 25 2010, 09:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What's unusual and very different from the NFL, is that head to head is down on the list of tie breakers. Spain and Switzerland could both finish with 6 points and Spain could advance, even though they lost to the Swiss.

Head to Head is #4 on the list of tiebreakers listed, above.

#13 dwightinright

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 10:28 AM

QUOTE (Lose Remerswaal @ Jun 25 2010, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Head to Head is #4 on the list of tiebreakers listed, above.


Yeah, that's why he said it was "down" on the list. Here, we're used to it being the top one.