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US vs. Ghana, 6/26/10, 2:30pm ET


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#1 tims4wins


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 05:00 PM

Group play is over for the US, let's use this as a thread for the buildup to Saturday. Winner plays the winner of South Korea/Uruguay.

Will Oneywu get back in the lineup vs. the Black Stars?

Edited by tims4wins, 23 June 2010 - 05:10 PM.


#2 TheYellowDart5


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 05:05 PM

You know who else is a black star?

#3 Infield Infidel


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 05:45 PM

QUOTE (TheYellowDart5 @ Jun 23 2010, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know who else is a black star?
"Ween, I am inAfrrreeka cheeleeng out, I leesen to Talib Kweli. Reefleckshin, Aternoo"


Can we come back if Ghana can't score?


#4 Jamoked

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 06:44 PM

QUOTE (Infield Infidel @ Jun 23 2010, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Ween, I am inAfrrreeka cheeleeng out, I leesen to Talib Kweli. Reefleckshin, Aternoo"


Can we come back if Ghana can't score?

Ah yes, the classic Stoppable Force Vs the Unmoved Object.

So is it safe to assume that Edu will be starting from here on out? Also Findley on 8 days rest has to be in the lineup. I have no idea what back 4 will be out there on Saturday, any guesses?

#5 Infield Infidel


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 07:18 PM

QUOTE (Jamoked @ Jun 23 2010, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ah yes, the classic Stoppable Force Vs the Unmoved Object.

So is it safe to assume that Edu will be starting from here on out? Also Findley on 8 days rest has to be in the lineup. I have no idea what back 4 will be out there on Saturday, any guesses?
Anyone but Bornstein. Dulo and Bocanegra played fairly well the first two matches. Also, there hasn't been a Spector sighting so far.

The only good thing about Bornstein is the way the Spanish announcer on Univision says his name. Boooooooooooooornstein.

Edited by Infield Infidel, 23 June 2010 - 07:19 PM.


#6 Arroyo Con Frijoles

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 07:32 PM

Bornstein was good today, I thought, but basically had no pressure on him at all. Boca was so much better than Gooch in the middle, though, that you've gotta think that Bob will consider it. Maybe Onyewu with some rest will be better.

#7 Lose Remerswaal


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 07:55 PM

Only 2 off days between games? That seems awful quick, no?

#8 Billy R Ford


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 08:54 PM

QUOTE (Lose Remerswaal @ Jun 23 2010, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Only 2 off days between games? That seems awful quick, no?


And right after the end of the season no less, no wonder they say the World Cup is a young man's game. But it's the standard, since European teams often have to play twice a week, and they probably don't want too many days without soccer during the cup so people will stay interested.

#9 Soxy Brown

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 09:43 PM

For a relative noob like myself, Nate Silver has been a pretty good World Cup read on his FiveThirtyEight site. He has the USA as an even money proposition against Ghana, saying it would be 60-40 if it weren't on African soil. I think this paragraph pretty much nails it:

QUOTE
[T]hese are benchmark games for the United States. It's not easy to beat Ghana in a World Cup played in Africa, and it's certainly not easy to beat a team playing as well as Uruguay should we get them in the quarterfinal. But these are the kinds of matches we'll have to start winning, and with some consistency, if we're going to progress into the next tier of international football.

As long as the masses oblige, I'll be watching this on DVR at approximately 10 PM on Saturday with no knowledge of what has transpired. I want to be a happy man come midnight.

#10 sodenj5

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 10:16 PM

This song was playing in my head when Donovan scored in the 91'. Particularly the "so lick my butt, and suck on my balls" portion.



It'll be interesting to see in what new, creative way the refs can screw the US in this next game.

Also:


Edited by sodenj5, 23 June 2010 - 10:22 PM.


#11 DLew On Roids


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:55 AM

Playing Ghana sucks. There's no way to talk shit without coming across like a racist. What can you say? "Hey Ghana, you suck! Your cocoa exports are sub-standard!"

#12 Shelterdog


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 08:07 AM

QUOTE (DLew On Roids @ Jun 24 2010, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Playing Ghana sucks. There's no way to talk shit without coming across like a racist. What can you say? "Hey Ghana, you suck! Your cocoa exports are sub-standard!"


"Your once-revered domestic league has greatly declined in quality as European clubs have purchased the contracts of your finest players." OH SNAP!

#13 DLew On Roids


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 08:28 AM

Yeah! Hearts of Oak? More like Hearts of CHOKE! High five!

#14 Carmine Hose

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 08:47 AM

You get a crack at Ghana without Michael Essien, with a Uruguay-South Korea winner looming for a spot in the WC semis. You NEED to win these two games or the program remains mired. It's not like they are facing a Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Portugal to get there.

#15 Zomp


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 09:00 AM

Sorry, shouldn't you be posting in England's game thread? We KNOW you aren't interested in this game.

#16 simplyeric


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 09:51 AM

QUOTE (Shelterdog @ Jun 24 2010, 09:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Your once-revered domestic league has greatly declined in quality as European clubs have purchased the contracts of your finest players." OH SNAP!


Everyone I know from Ghana (not many, but we were close years ago) is the sweetest gentlest person ever. I mean, I know that's not true of all of Ghana...but I was close with 5 people, and they were all so.....sweet and nice. Even the somewhat misogynistic guy was really sweet and nice about it.

"yeah Ghana...you're too sweet to win!"

"if only your humble pie was as sweet as you"

how about "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you"

sigh.


USA!

USA!



#17 DLew On Roids


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:29 AM

A song for Sam's Army on Saturday (to the tune of When Johnny Comes Marching Home):

He turned his back on his country, Rossi, Rossi!
Thought he could win with Italy, Rossi, Rossi!
They didn't let him on the plane
Landon scored, we're still playing
Giuseppe Rossi, eat a bowl of shit!

#18 Paradigm


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:01 PM

QUOTE (Jamoked @ Jun 23 2010, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also Findley on 8 days rest has to be in the lineup. I have no idea what back 4 will be out there on Saturday, any guesses?


Please, no. I thought he played terribly against England and Slovenia. He creates space but the team ends up chucking long passes in his direction and his first touch hasn't been good. They scored five goals without him during the second half of the Slovenia game and the entirety of the Algeria game (only three counted). They never were far less threatening against England and Slovenia when he was on the pitch. He picked up two cards. His fresh legs don't justify a start given his poor performance in the first two games.

#19 EEIcaller

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:32 PM

QUOTE (Soxy Brown @ Jun 23 2010, 10:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For a relative noob like myself, Nate Silver has been a pretty good World Cup read on his FiveThirtyEight site. He has the USA as an even money proposition against Ghana, saying it would be 60-40 if it weren't on African soil. I think this paragraph pretty much nails it:


As long as the masses oblige, I'll be watching this on DVR at approximately 10 PM on Saturday with no knowledge of what has transpired. I want to be a happy man come midnight.



It's always an uphill battle with the US. In qualifying we never have the home field advantage. In the WC we seemed to have had MORE than our share of bad calls go against us. I'm more afraid of the fact that Ghana is the last African team left and FIFA may want them to advance at our expense. Hopefully we can get some early non disputable goals.

#20 Joe D Reid

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:06 PM

QUOTE (EEIcaller @ Jun 24 2010, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's always an uphill battle with the US. In qualifying we never have the home field advantage. In the WC we seemed to have had MORE than our share of bad calls go against us. I'm more afraid of the fact that Ghana is the last African team left and FIFA may want them to advance at our expense. Hopefully we can get some early non disputable goals.

I don't see any evidence that FIFA is against us. After we ate a bad call against SVN, they benched the ref and gave us one with a good rep for the last game (remember, it was the linesman who arguably bit us there). In fact, if you're looking for the direct hand of FIFA anywhere, look to the 4 minutes of stoppage time they tacked on to the end of a half with no goals (to that point) and no stretcher-worthy injuries.

As for the game itself, Bradley is going to have to decide whether he wants to start a defense that's not big enough to match up against Ghana, or one that's not fast enough. Given Ghana's problems scoring so far, I'd lean towards keeping Boca and Demerit together in the center of defense, on the theory that they're more likely to end up standing in more or less correct places, and thus lower the chances that we'll just hand one to Ghana. Of course, that means either Bornstein or Spector has to be outside, but I'd rather see them patch things from the inside out.



#21 BelgianSoxFan

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:28 PM

QUOTE (EEIcaller @ Jun 24 2010, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's always an uphill battle with the US. In qualifying we never have the home field advantage. In the WC we seemed to have had MORE than our share of bad calls go against us. I'm more afraid of the fact that Ghana is the last African team left and FIFA may want them to advance at our expense. Hopefully we can get some early non disputable goals.


What are you talking about? The FIFA has rigged the system to ensure that barring an 8 sigma event, the US makes it to every single World Cup. The only teams out of Europe who have qualified for the '98,'02,'06 and '10 world cups are England, Spain, France, Germany and Italy. No USA fan should complain about the World Cup qualifications.

There were some awful inexcusable calls against the US, but the FIFA has more to gain by getting the US into the semi-finals than Ghana. The ref against Slovenia was clearly over his head, he should not have been there. But it is the World Cup, it would not be good to have only European refs whistle.

Awful inexcusable calls are part of the game, football fans complain about them for ages. It has nothing to do with the FIFA wanting the USA out in favor of Slovenia or Algeria, why would they even want that? Where the FIFA actually has control (the allotment of World Cup Seeds per federation), they go out of their way to ensure the US making the World Cup. Going around the world, I think every fan has a memory of a ref stealing their World Cup dreams with an incredibly stupid, blind and inexcusable decision. If you want to see a rigged game look up South Korea against Spain in 2002.

#22 Mugsys Jock


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:35 PM

I really admire Gooch, and really respect healthy Gooch... but present day Gooch strikes me as too slow to run out there with Ghana. I'd rather go with Boooooooorn-stein, who I thought handled Algeria okay.

#23 Jamoked

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 03:24 PM

QUOTE (Paradigm @ Jun 24 2010, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Please, no. I thought he played terribly against England and Slovenia. He creates space but the team ends up chucking long passes in his direction and his first touch hasn't been good. They scored five goals without him during the second half of the Slovenia game and the entirety of the Algeria game (only three counted). They never were far less threatening against England and Slovenia when he was on the pitch. He picked up two cards. His fresh legs don't justify a start given his poor performance in the first two games.

I will concede that his touch hasn't been great, and his decision making needs to be quicker, but IMO he was one of the best players for the US against England. He ran his ass off for 80 minutes, tracking back and breaking up English possession, a couple of times all the way to our endline.

I also don't think you can put the constant sending of long-balls or the scoring when he is out of the match all on him. Correlation does not imply causation. Every minute he was on the pitch so was Onyewu and either Clark or Torres. If you want to place blame, look there first.



#24 Ed Hillel


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 03:40 PM

Wow, the US has a real legit shot at the final 4 here. It certainly won't be easy, but it wouldn't be all that surprising either.

#25 soxfan121


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:08 PM

Ghana is as tactically sound a defensive team as any left in the tournament. They rely on 3 players to spark any chances they take and they will always have four or five back , playing it safe.

To beat Ghana, the USA needs to take chances and lots of them, early. They've proven to themselves they can dig out of a hole, so go balls-out in the first 30 and really pressure Ghana. Hope you get that first goal and then hunker down and force them to play against type. They aren't a team that can comeback. The longer it goes scoreless, the bigger a threat their limited attack becomes so eliminate it early. You can always sub defense IN as opposed to taking it off in favor of more attackers late. Tell Feilhaber that he's playing just the first 45 and leave nothing on the pitch in the first half. Give Ghana 4 offensive minded attackers to deal with right off the bat and rely on Oneywu/DeMerit/Bocanegra to hold the fort against a team that can hurt them but isn't going to come out attacking.

#26 Mugsys Jock


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:23 PM

FWIW, as we move to elimination round with shootouts at the end, having Tim Howard back there is better than what most sides have got.

#27 johnmd20


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE (soxfan121 @ Jun 24 2010, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ghana is as tactically sound a defensive team as any left in the tournament. They rely on 3 players to spark any chances they take and they will always have four or five back , playing it safe.

To beat Ghana, the USA needs to take chances and lots of them, early.

They also have to successfully finish their chances when they take them. The blew so many opportunities against Algeria, I hope it doesn't get in their heads and I hope they focus on the fact that when they have needed goals, they have gotten them. But in this game, they can't not convert 5 excellent chances, they have to score when the opportunity is presented.

#28 Billy R Ford


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:20 PM

Let's see some more of this Saturday


On a more related note, who can find Ghana on a map?


I knew the general area but my guess turned out to be Nigeria.

#29 Billy R Ford


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:35 PM

QUOTE (Jamoked @ Jun 24 2010, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I also don't think you can put the constant sending of long-balls or the scoring when he is out of the match all on him. Correlation does not imply causation. Every minute he was on the pitch so was Onyewu and either Clark or Torres. If you want to place blame, look there first.


So the lack of goals is the fault of the central defender and defensive midfielder, not the striker? I can agree some blame lies with Torres, but under the US's system Findley is expected to finish goals himself just as much as he's expected to help create them. He's a make-shift Charlie Davies, and Davies was an out-and-out striker, not a center forward or a deep-lying one. Gomez is just as capable of creating space (see: his diagonal run that drew defenders away on Bradley's goal against Slovenia) and is in goal-scoring form right now. I also think Buddle would work better with Altidore than people are giving them credit for, as Altidore played his best soccer with Hull paired with another big man in Vennegoor of Hesselink. Either one of them brings more to the table at this point than Findley.

#30 Vinho Tinto

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:39 PM

Biggest moment in American soccer and they celebrate with cold Budweisers - Nice.

Take THAT craft brew makers!

#31 TheRealness


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:58 PM

I thought this reaction video was pretty cool, and I'm pretty sure this was the one Donovan was talking about in his interview with Dan Patrick today. He had commented that in 2002 they didn't know what the reaction was back home, but that now he was on youtube watching reaction videos and seeing the immediate impact of their win.



USA! USA! USA!

#32 Joe D Reid

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:14 PM

Very cool. I work near City Hall in Manhattan, and snuck around the corner to watch the last 20 minutes at what turned out to be an unofficial carpenter's union bar. It was not packed, but it was decently full, and everybody in there (except me and one other random dude) were exactly the sort of Real Murcans who theoretically are supposed to hate soccer as a socialist evil. Instead, everyone was mulling over tiebreaker scenarios and threatening to climb on a plane and go fuck up the linesmen. The place went bonkers when Donovan scored, and yes, the U-S-A chant got busted out.

I don't think these guys will necessarily get up early to watch Wigan-WBA next fall, but most Americans don't get up early to watch track or or gymnastics, either, and we do just fine in those with most of us watching only once every four years.

Edited by Joe D Reid, 24 June 2010 - 07:15 PM.


#33 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:15 PM

Can we get something better than chanting u-s-a over and over? Like maybe some songs?

I've always thought fans should sing yankee doodle at games. It's patriotic, it's got history and everyone knows it. It's even a little ironic.

#34 Joe D Reid

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:21 PM

QUOTE (Spacemans Bong @ Jun 24 2010, 08:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can we get something better than chanting u-s-a over and over? Like maybe some songs?

I've always thought fans should sing yankee doodle at games. It's patriotic, it's got history and everyone knows it. It's even a little ironic.

Baby steps: soccer now appears to be a legitimate sport, but public singing is, as of yet, not. We'll catch the English in on-field performance long before we catch them in witty songs (or else we'd have been singing "Are you Scotland in disguise" in the second half against them). The moral arc of history is long, etc, etc.

#35 Dummy Hoy


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:31 PM

I've been to bars for games where there has been non stop singing by USA fans...unfortunately much of it was violently racist towards Mexicans. Some of it is great though, and it will be nice when more people pick up on some of the songs.

#36 Billy R Ford


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:58 PM



#37 Infield Infidel


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 08:48 PM

QUOTE (Vinho Tinto @ Jun 24 2010, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Biggest moment in American soccer and they celebrate with cold Budweisers - Nice.

Take THAT craft brew makers!
Bud has and exclusive world cup contract, it's the only beer for sale in the stadium




#38 Infield Infidel


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 09:07 PM

Also, the US has made the second round of the last three World Cups not held in Europe.

#39 mic99

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 10:02 PM

nm

Edited by mic99, 25 June 2010 - 07:03 AM.


#40 Dr. Noisewater

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 10:27 PM

QUOTE (mic99 @ Jun 24 2010, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Think that is the Hoosiers music and that will get me every time.....video had me int tears (could not watch the match because of work)


Actually the song is from Rudy. Same composer did both those movies though.

Anyway, any ideas what the back line is going to look like when we start playing teams that aren't content to draw? Bornstein looked awful on Wednesday, and I don't think Onyewu can keep up with the Ghanians. Can Spector play the left side? If he can, Cherundolo-DeMerit-Boca-Spector doesn't look too bad.

#41 idontlikecricketiloveit

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 12:27 AM

QUOTE (DLew On Roids @ Jun 24 2010, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A song for Sam's Army on Saturday (to the tune of When Johnny Comes Marching Home):

He turned his back on his country, Rossi, Rossi!
Thought he could win with Italy, Rossi, Rossi!
They didn't let him on the plane
Landon scored, we're still playing
Giuseppe Rossi, eat a bowl of shit!
Speaking of Sam's army and songs, their website appears to have been hacked.

#42 SumnerH


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Posted 25 June 2010 - 12:50 AM

QUOTE (Vinho Tinto @ Jun 24 2010, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Biggest moment in American soccer


It was a great win, but let's not overdo it--it's probably not even in the top 3 moments in American World Cup soccer. This is a team that was expected (though not a lock) to advance and barely pulled that off.

Beating England in 1950, advancing in 1994 when they were expected to be roundly trounced, and getting 3rd in 1930 back when we had a reasonably competitive side were bigger moments.

Heck, beating Spain last year meant more for the legitimacy of American soccer than this win.

(and that's assuming that we limit things to the men's game; Brandy Chastain in 1999 probably did more for soccer viewership of both the men's and women's teams in America than any game the men have ever played)

#43 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 25 June 2010 - 03:17 AM

QUOTE (Joe D Reid @ Jun 25 2010, 01:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Baby steps: soccer now appears to be a legitimate sport, but public singing is, as of yet, not. We'll catch the English in on-field performance long before we catch them in witty songs (or else we'd have been singing "Are you Scotland in disguise" in the second half against them). The moral arc of history is long, etc, etc.

Best England chant of the tournament was against us: "You've only got one song".

#44 jon abbey


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Posted 25 June 2010 - 03:30 AM

Two days rest has to be the quickest turnaround of any game in the tournament, right? I wonder if Bradley will make some switches from the Algeria lineup just to get some fresher legs in there.

#45 MentalDisabldLst


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Posted 25 June 2010 - 04:27 AM

QUOTE (Spacemans Bong @ Jun 24 2010, 08:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can we get something better than chanting u-s-a over and over? Like maybe some songs?

I've always thought fans should sing yankee doodle at games. It's patriotic, it's got history and everyone knows it. It's even a little ironic.


Yankee Doodle is too fast and complicated for a crowd to sing it credibly. You need something with a lot of half notes and whole notes.

America The Beautiful is my recommendation, in a pinch. It has the added bonus of being really pretty. But it's not nearly crude and sassy enough to be a true football-fan song.

#46 Tony C


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Posted 25 June 2010 - 04:46 AM

Who are the people who film (or webcam) themselves alone watching soccer? Do they later whip it out?

Anyway, that was pretty cool. And it's very true we just have to concede on the song front, alas.

#47 ifmanis5


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Posted 25 June 2010 - 07:27 AM

US has a really nice draw. If they get by Ghana, they get the winner of S.Korea/Uruguay. That's a winnable game. No "Soccer Powerhouse" team until the semifinals. Very doable with a little luck & health.

#48 Jimmy Walsh

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 07:30 AM

I always thought 'USA ain't nothin to fuck with' was kinda catchy:



#49 blueguitar322

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 08:18 AM

At the pub I went to for the England game, one of the best songs was sung after every Tim Howard save (to the tune of the Mary Poppins chimney sweep song):

Tim Timmery Tim Timmery Tim Tim Te-roo
We have Tim Howard and he says "fuck you!"

Edited by blueguitar322, 25 June 2010 - 08:20 AM.


#50 SumnerH


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Posted 25 June 2010 - 08:55 AM