[PedroKsBambino]

Elarton is in year one of a two-year deal, I believe, so it's not totally clear that the Royals will really be looking to move him. He's a veteran and adequate pitcher, thus he's something the Royals may not be able to attract in the FA market this offseason if they deal him. If nothing else, this probably affects his price in a potential deal.

[TheYellowDart5]

It's very sad that options like Scott Elarton and Mark Redman are being tossed around as potential trade targets for this team.

It's almost sadder that both would represent an upgrade over Matt Clement.

FWIW, though, Redman's on the DL with some kind of arm injury, so I'd stay away from him.

[Andy Tomberlin]

I bet that the Brewers would still be interested in Clement if the Sox were willing to eat a LARGE chunk of his salary to unload him. I'm talking about like half of the contract (~$10M).

They wouldn't be able to give us pitching back, but maybe they could give us something that we could use to go get another pitcher. It would be REALLY NICE, but I highly doubt they'd trade us Bill Hall, who would look nice at SS, especially since Hardy is still hurt.

[JohntheBaptist]

redinchicago, on May 25 2006, 12:29 PM, said:

Add MDC with Clement and it could work.  Though I'd rather wait and see what the Cubs do and how the Angels play in the next month or two.  Escobar could be available.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Escobar is the perfect world scenario I'd been considering as well, but it'd take a lot to get him, and would certainly not include unloading Clement, considering the necessary circumstances required for it to b realistic.

Honestly, until the offseason, I'd guess we're almost certainly stuck with Clement, unless a team becomes very desperate for a SP and we can find a 3-way to net us an innings eater or something.

[reggiecleveland]

Tito's interview with the lovely Tina was telling. He said there is a difference between "being hurt and hurting" and "sometimes you just have to deal with and perform." He seems as exasperated as anyone.

[SoxFanPJ]

Given the precarious health of David Wells and the suckitude that has been Matt Clement acquiring another SP makes sense. The problem is that unless you pull off a blockbuster and land a top pitcher (Willis, Zito, Schmidt, etc) I think the price in terms of prospects is too high for a mediocre starter. I don't think the front office is willing to trade Lester unless a young and arbitration or pre-arbitration SP is available.

Aside from praying that Clemens sours on Houston and their post season chances and decides a return to Boston is the way to come full circle, there aren't a lot of options or top level minor league talent to trade.

Realistically Pedroia needs to be kept unless they are going to fill both 2B and SS through FA next season, a possibility but would prove costly. (Lugo-SS Loretta/Belliard 2B)

I don't think there is much of a chance they deal Hansen, so you are probably looking at some combination of MDC, Stern, Moss, Murphy, and guys at lower levels as trade bait.

At this point KC, LAA, DC, FLA, CHC, and Pitt should be sellers.

KC: Yuck
LAA: Escobar or Weaver would probably be available for the right price. I wouldn't want Weaver.
DC: Livan or Armas
FLA: Willis?
CHC: Wood or Prior
PITT: Perez?

I don't think the Nats would want Clement for Livan, it seems much more likely from everything coming out of the new ownership they would want prospects to help rebuild their system, not an older and ineffective SP.

Willis would probably take Lester++ and thats even if he is made available this season.

Wood, Prior and Perez are the interesting names who are probably at all times lows in terms of their value. Whether any of them can get/stay healthy and show the effectiveness they have displayed previously in their careers is another matter.

Because of his expensive option for next season its likely that Wood will get traded or bought out of his deal after this season, so it makes sense for the Cubs to trade him and get value in return for him now. Because of his cost/injury history it is also likely that he will cost less then Prior or Perez.

Pedroia and MDC for Wood?

[Worst Trade Evah]

reggiecleveland, on May 25 2006, 05:45 PM, said:

Tito's interview with the lovely Tina was telling. He said there is a difference between "being hurt and hurting" and "sometimes you just have to deal with and perform." He seems as exasperated as anyone.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I found that interview really annoying. Clement was clearly not getting it done and not giving much indication he was going to. Leaving him in to teach him life lessons about manhood and cowboying up or whatever other macho little jingle they have going now while we lose the game in the process is pretty annoying. I like Tito, but stuff like that is aggravating. If he doesn't like what Clement is doing, take him out and sit him down.

edit: replied to wrong post

This post has been edited by Worst Trade Evah: 25 May 2006 - 11:42 PM

[AZBlue]

Observations about Clement:

1. He seems to be in more trouble than the batter is when the count is 0-2.

2. He has bad body language on the mound if ANYTHING does not go quite right. The opposing batters have responded to that like sharks with blood in the water.

3. Was he truly sucking it up and pitching courageously after being hit with the line drive off the upper ankle or was he he thinking it could be an excuse if he was unable to finish off batters from that point in the game going forward? I don't know the answer. Perhaps it is unfair to suggest that the latter is possible.

4. He pitches aggressively and comes close to hitting the catcher's target when there is little pressure, but, when he has a count that should be to his advantage, he appears to be aiming or overthrowing--with the same bad result of very poor location causing high pitch counts and way too many base runners.

Lack of mound presence, command and confidence are not what you would like to see any time of the season, let alone in September and October.

I agree with several comments above about a worrisome drop in velocity. He was definitely at 93-94 three years ago with a wicked slider.

This post has been edited by AZBlue: 25 May 2006 - 11:33 PM

[reggiecleveland]

Worst Trade Evah, on May 25 2006, 10:09 PM, said:

I found that interview really annoying. Clement was clearly not getting it done and not giving much indication he was going to. Leaving him in to teach him life lessons about manhood and cowboying up or whatever other macho little jingle they have going now while we lose the game in the process is pretty annoying. I like Tito, but stuff like that is aggravating. If he doesn't like what Clement is doing, take him out and sit him down.

edit: replied to wrong post
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I took Tito's comments more that he didn't like the idea of the injury as an excuse for bad pitching. It was also telling that during the broadcast the Sox sent word that Clement was not hurt and just removed on a regular manager's decision.

[OCD SS]

SoxFanPJ, on May 25 2006, 10:25 PM, said:

Pedroia and MDC for Wood?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd say no, partly because with Pedroia hitting less his value has probably dropped and that might not be enough (from the Cubs perspective). I'd also be hesitant to give up 6 cost controlled years for the expensive option of an injured pitcher.

[BigJimEd]

It seems like most think Clement's problems are mostly mental. But there are also reports that his stuff isn't nearly what is was a few years ago and that he's lost several mph on his fastball.
Clement's problems could be mental and that's probably part of it but I'm not sure that's entirely the problem or even most of it. It seems like that's usually an easy cop out. People said the same about Lowe when he struggled but then he pitched lights out in the playoffs so that would seem to say he was mentally tough and that maybe there were other issues at work.

Maybe hitters have just figured Clement out and he's just not that good of a pitcher or that he needs to make a major adjustment in approach. It's not like he was lights out in the NL. He had one pretty good year, followed by an average year and then an awesome first half followed by a poor second half his last year.
Maybe it's just some small thiing with his mechanics and that has caused his inconsistency. Maybe he'll have a hot second half. I really don't know what his problems are but I'm just not sure it all or mostly mental.

I guess the bottom line is Clement hasn't pitched well and unless he improves soon the Sox are going to have find an alternative.

[jtn46]

The Cubbies might as well sit on Prior and Wood at this point and hope they boost their trade value by the trade deadline. I can see the moving on, but now while both of them are probably at their all time low in value.

I don't think Pedroia's value is hurt much, and I don't think it matters in terms of guys like Livan. The Red Sox would be stupid to move Lester, Hansen or Pedroia for anyone right now, especally any overpaid pitcher with an ERA over 5. If they go after a pitcher like that, they'll use their wallets to make the deal and send someone we won't miss.

[redinchicago]

jtn46, on May 26 2006, 08:46 AM, said:

The Cubbies might as well sit on Prior and Wood at this point and hope they boost their trade value by the trade deadline.  I can see the moving on, but now while both of them are probably at their all time low in value.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's probably a decent chance that the Cubs lose out on Wood at the end of the year, anyway. He has a $13.5 Mil. mutual option, with a $3 mil. buyout. Wood does have a no trade clause.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

AZBlue, on May 26 2006, 12:33 AM, said:

Observations about Clement:

1.  He seems to be in more trouble than the batter is when the count is 0-2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

His splits when the count is 0-2 (14 AB) = 3 hits, 6 Ks, 0 BBs, .214./.214/.428
His splits after the count has reached 0-2 (34 AB) = 8 hits, 2 2Bs, 15 K, 1 BB, .257/.294/.551.

On the other hand, it appears that he is issuing a lot of walks after it gets to 3-0 and 3-1, and his BABIP is apparently .336.

[OilCanShotTupac]

I don't want to see Clement take his next turn in the rotation.

When he fell apart again tonight, he made some noises like his ankle was bothering him. If that's the case, he should be DL'd.

If not, then I would stick him in Pawtucket to work on getting his head out of his ass. I know he can't be sent down without his permission, but there is precedent. As I said in the game thread, the Mets did it with Trachsel a few years ago when he was stinking up the joint, and it seemed to work.

Too many 4 pitch walks. Too many behind-in-the-count meatballs. No composure or resolve at all.

I just don't want to see him pitch again until he straightens himself out. I literally don't want to see it.

[AusTexSoxFan]

It's such a snowball effect with Clement. You knew when they had runners on 2nd and 3rd and less than two outs that both of those runners were gonna score. It has gotten to the point that a runner that advances to 2nd will ultimately score. It's a foregone conclusion. I'm pulling hard for the guy but I just don't think it's there for him.

[gcapalbo]

I don't have much faith in Clement either, but that being said...

The way I read the 'new' medical staff is that they are very conservative. If Clement's ankle was taped heavily, there was likely a reason for it.

Yeah, it sure looks like he lacks intestinal fortitude, but if he was hurt, there could have been a reason other than his psyche for why he is hurt.

The problem is-- without Wells, the loss of Clement is even more serious.

Likely the reason they decided to let him start with a marginal injury and hope for the best.

That didn't happen... so they should DL him.

[E5 Yaz]

gcapalbo, on May 30 2006, 02:24 AM, said:

If Clement's ankle was taped heavily, there was likely a reason for it.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

imagine the tape needed around his spine

send clement to the DL buys time with that problem, but it doesn't fill the hole in the rotation. the question really boils down to: pick up another team's garbage, or bring up the kids?

pending the clemens decision, obviously

[DieHard3]

reggiecleveland, on May 25 2006, 10:40 PM, said:

Tito's interview with the lovely Tina was telling. He said there is a difference between "being hurt and hurting" and "sometimes you just have to deal with and perform." He seems as exasperated as anyone.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not everyone is Willis Schilling. This macho bullshit attitude has wrecked more careers and more teams' seasons than one can count. If he's hurting then shut him down and get him healthy. No need to panic and make a huge trade either, just get someone in here for two weeks and hope to get lucky.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

DieHard3, on May 29 2006, 10:38 PM, said:

Not everyone is Willis Schilling.  This macho bullshit attitude has wrecked more careers and more teams' seasons than one can count.  If he's hurting then shut him down and get him healthy.  No need to panic and make a huge trade either, just get someone in here for two weeks and hope to get lucky.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. While I don't think Clement has balls the size of Saturn, his lack of velocity recently indicates that something is physically wrong with him. Putting him on the 15 day DL to see if he can heal up wouldn't be the worst idea in the world, and 2 weeks of Ginter/Pauley/Hansen starting won't kill us either.

It's funny how many of the comments being made about Clement were being made about Kim as well when he lost 5 MPH off his pitches.