126 replies to this topic

[cromulence]

The android ragers have gotten annoying to a point of absurdity. I really don't need to read about you guys justifying your purchase of the non mainstream device. I get it, you're cool and smarter than everyone else and you're suddenly enamored with open source, fine.

Have to assume you're talking about me here. First of all, to assume that I or anyone else likes open source solely due to Android is a generalization and in my case completely inaccurate. I'm not claiming to be cooler or smarter, I just really dislike the way Apple does business and it annoys me to see people buy their products like lemmings without realizing there are alternatives that are usually as good or better and almost always cheaper. That's all.

I also don't know how you can call Android non-mainstream - at this point you're buying a Blackberry, an iPhone, or an Android phone. Not really a niche product anymore.

I'm done, I swear. Just don't like being generalized.

[DukeSox]

The fact that the iPhone is a closed system means it just works, and people like that. "Open source" sounds like you gotta be a hacker to use it...90% of people want devices that make their lives simpler, not devices that require a ton of work to figure out how to use. iPhones are really easy to use -- that's the draw. Who cares that you can't give it a customized background or whatever other hacker stuff you wanna do.

[Rustjive]

This doesn't seem true at all. There are 100 million cell phone users in Japan, and according to your article, 2.3 million of those are Iphones. Apple has sold 50 million Iphones worldwide. Nintendo has sold almost 130 million DS units worldwide and 30 million in Japan. Yes, you are correct that Apple is growing in Japan, but they are still incredibly far behind.

No, I'm talking about worldwide. It's a little dicey breaking down the iOS device numbers, but we do know that sometime in January Jobs cited a number that 75 million devices had been sold. Furthermore, in the quarter ending March 27th Apple reported sales of 8.75 million iPhones, and 10.885 million iPods (which needs to be split between iPod Classic and iPod Touch), and it's important to note that it was a quarter with no hardware refresh. Yesterday, Jobs said the 100 millionth iOS device would be sold this month, and he likely means before the release of the iPhone 4. For the quarter ending March 31st, Nintendo put its total lifetime DS sales at 128.89 million, but Nintendo only sold 27.11 million Nintendo DS units over the entire fiscal year.

Edit: worldwide caveat
Edit 2: let's make these numbers accurate

Edited by Rustjive, 08 June 2010 - 09:21 AM.

[BoSoxFink]

What if your contract does not expire sometime in 2010, how much will the phones be? I didn't see that written anywhere so far.

[BigJimEd]

The fact that the iPhone is a closed system means it just works, and people like that. "Open source" sounds like you gotta be a hacker to use it...90% of people want devices that make their lives simpler, not devices that require a ton of work to figure out how to use. iPhones are really easy to use -- that's the draw. Who cares that you can't give it a customized background or whatever other hacker stuff you wanna do.

Open source does not mean a ton of work to figure out how to use. Not these days anyway and certainly not with the more popular Android phones.

I'm not hating on the iPhone though. It's a very good device and has a excellent and familiar interface though that people like.

[teddykgb]

Have to assume you're talking about me here. First of all, to assume that I or anyone else likes open source solely due to Android is a generalization and in my case completely inaccurate. I'm not claiming to be cooler or smarter, I just really dislike the way Apple does business and it annoys me to see people buy their products like lemmings without realizing there are alternatives that are usually as good or better and almost always cheaper. That's all.

I also don't know how you can call Android non-mainstream - at this point you're buying a Blackberry, an iPhone, or an Android phone. Not really a niche product anymore.

I'm done, I swear. Just don't like being generalized.

No, your posts are honestly just symptoms of the larger issue that has been all over any tech related site for about two years now with every iPhone competitor, but certainly has become louder since the droid. It isn't that you aren't entitled to your opinion, it's just remarkably tiring to read all this content from so many people espousing viewpoints that are often incorrect, irrelevant, or at the very least matters of personal choice.

As far as your last post specifically, who is the one generalizing? People who buy apple products, of which there are millions upon millions, are uninformed lemmings who aren't smart or capable enough to know which product to buy? There's a 'droid does' commercial on my tv at least 10 times a day. Google has gotten tremendous press for their offering, and rightly so, from both national media and the tech press. Hp buying palm was national news. In spite of all this, every major apple announcement manages to bring some of the beefiest web infrastructures on the web to their knees....I'd say that if anything, iPhone os users are plenty aware of what is and isn't out there and this silly insistence by those who have opted for alternatives that if everyone just knew about their device they'd make the same choice is what is narrow minded and short sighted.

At this point, in 2010, this is a market that is rapidly approaching it's ceiling in terms of features. All of you can thank apple for the atom bomb they dropped into this i industry a few short years ago. These platforms are rapidly becoming knockoffs of one another, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just means that there isn't now and probably never will be a knockout blow that crowns one company a winner. There are just a lot of great and incredibly functional devices on the market right now, and that's a good thing.

[Sille Skrub]

The android ragers have gotten annoying to a point of absurdity. I really don't need to read about you guys justifying your purchase of the non mainstream device. I get it, you're cool and smarter than everyone else and you're suddenly enamored with open source, fine.

Awesome.

[NortheasternPJ]

Not iPhone, but Safari 5 is now out via software update. A lot of people were thinking this would be in the keynote.

[The Four Peters]

I'm done, I swear. Just don't like being generalized.

Suffice to say it's clear you're an Apple cultist so it's not worth my time. Enjoy your iStuff.

Cool.

[I am an Idiot]

Now, if my contract runs out in Feb 2011, do I get the upgrade? Or am I stuck paying full price? Two months late to the party. Haha.

[Yaz4Ever]

I'm eligible for upgrades for both of my iPhone 3G phones. If I want the 32GB, am I looking at $299 for each or do I get a break?

[ragecage]

I'm eligible for upgrades for both of my iPhone 3G phones. If I want the 32GB, am I looking at $299 for each or do I get a break?

No break unfortunately.

[Yaz4Ever]

well that sucks I'll unload both of my 3G iphones on eBay, though, and hopefully recoup some of the upgrade expense. I'm sure I'll be the only one doing this, so I should do quite well

[fawstahcu]

There's also an $18 upgrade fee per line. I know it's peanuts when you're talking about buying phones for 300 a piece, but those things add up.

[fawstahcu]

well that sucks I'll unload both of my 3G iphones on eBay, though, and hopefully recoup some of the upgrade expense. I'm sure I'll be the only one doing this, so I should do quite well

If you're going the eBay route, jailbreak your phone to start. If you're still running older firmware and can carrier-unlock, do that as well. You might be able to recoup all of the upgrade expense that way.

[Yaz4Ever]

couldn't I just leave it as is and mention that in the description, that way whoever wins it can do whatever they want, but people searching for "jailbreak" or "jailbroken" can still find it?

If you're going the eBay route, jailbreak your phone to start. If you're still running older firmware and can carrier-unlock, do that as well. You might be able to recoup all of the upgrade expense that way.

[behindthepen]

Now, if my contract runs out in Feb 2011, do I get the upgrade? Or am I stuck paying full price? Two months late to the party. Haha.

I think if you have more than one phone on the contract, or are an above-average user, they are flexible on that. You just have to call them or hit a store.

[fawstahcu]

couldn't I just leave it as is and mention that in the description, that way whoever wins it can do whatever they want, but people searching for "jailbreak" or "jailbroken" can still find it?

From my experience, you can, but at a cost. Carrier unlocked iPhones seem to sell at a premium, and to a much bigger audience (i.e. overseas). Last year prior to the 3GS launch, I was able to sell my old 8Gb 3G iPhone for a little over $450, where unmodified models were going for $300. Spending 15 minutes to do the work can make you a bit more money.

A quick search of eBay right now shows the difference to be about $100 ($300 unlocked vs $200 locked for 8GB 3G iPhones). Just depends on whether or not you want to make the effort.

One more thing-- you'll need to have the older baseband to carrier unlock, which depends on when the phone was manufactured, as well as what your last software/firmware update was.

I plan to sell my wife's old 3G the same way in about two weeks to pay for most of our upgrade to the 4th gen hardware.

Edited by fawstahcu, 08 June 2010 - 01:07 PM.

[CrouchingTonyHiddenPena]

No, your posts are honestly just symptoms of the larger issue that has been all over any tech related site for about two years now with every iPhone competitor, but certainly has become louder since the droid. It isn't that you aren't entitled to your opinion, it's just remarkably tiring to read all this content from so many people espousing viewpoints that are often incorrect, irrelevant, or at the very least matters of personal choice.

As far as your last post specifically, who is the one generalizing? People who buy apple products, of which there are millions upon millions, are uninformed lemmings who aren't smart or capable enough to know which product to buy? There's a 'droid does' commercial on my tv at least 10 times a day. Google has gotten tremendous press for their offering, and rightly so, from both national media and the tech press. Hp buying palm was national news. In spite of all this, every major apple announcement manages to bring some of the beefiest web infrastructures on the web to their knees....I'd say that if anything, iPhone os users are plenty aware of what is and isn't out there and this silly insistence by those who have opted for alternatives that if everyone just knew about their device they'd make the same choice is what is narrow minded and short sighted.

At this point, in 2010, this is a market that is rapidly approaching it's ceiling in terms of features. All of you can thank apple for the atom bomb they dropped into this i industry a few short years ago. These platforms are rapidly becoming knockoffs of one another, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just means that there isn't now and probably never will be a knockout blow that crowns one company a winner. There are just a lot of great and incredibly functional devices on the market right now, and that's a good thing.

First off, I agree with literally 100% of your post.

However, the same traits you touch on in a constructive fashion can be applied to all Apple fans in the mid-90's or early 2000's, then considered the minority by many. Apple is now THE it name, so brand loyalists 'raging' against the man are IMO necessary to the evolution of ingenuity with respect to any competitors rise. I actually read a great piece recently discussing how Android smartphones are the only devices to bring the 'fanboy' level of any non-Apple phone to similar levels of hype and appreciation to that of the iPhone. It said that in a sea of endless failed "iPhone killers", android smartphones happen to be the only successful attempt at it.

In short, I don't like the incessant fanboy following of any manufacturer either, but I see it as a whole to be a necessary evil that I appreciate for the evolutionary benefits they foster in the end. So long as they are constructive in the praise of their devices (as well as condescension of competitors), it's a great thing IMVHO.

[Yaz4Ever]

You've got me interested now, but I don't understand the baseband portion of your post.

From my experience, you can, but at a cost. Carrier unlocked iPhones seem to sell at a premium, and to a much bigger audience (i.e. overseas). Last year prior to the 3GS launch, I was able to sell my old 8Gb 3G iPhone for a little over $450, where unmodified models were going for $300. Spending 15 minutes to do the work can make you a bit more money.

A quick search of eBay right now shows the difference to be about $100 ($300 unlocked vs $200 locked for 8GB 3G iPhones). Just depends on whether or not you want to make the effort.

One more thing-- you'll need to have the older baseband to carrier unlock, which depends on when the phone was manufactured, as well as what your last software/firmware update was.

I plan to sell my wife's old 3G the same way in about two weeks to pay for most of our upgrade to the 4th gen hardware.

[teddykgb]

The baseband is a component of the Phone operating system, so to speak (actually a separate hardware part with its own software) that needs to be at a certain version or lower for the phone to be truly unlockable.

It's easy enough to check, if you go into the settings...general...about it is listed under the "Modem Firmware". The unlock modifies this baseband software to allow it to be used on multiple carriers.

[fawstahcu]

You've got me interested now, but I don't understand the baseband portion of your post.

Your ability to carrier-unlock your iPhone mostly relies on your version of the iPhone baseband firmware that runs the cellular modem. You can check this in Settings -> General -> About -> Modem Firmware.

If you're running 04.26.xx, then you have a plethora of options to carrier unlock your phone. blog.iphone-dev.org has the links to a handful of sites hosting the free, open jailbreaking/unlocking resources you need.

If you're running 05.12.xx, then you're out of luck-- your phone will run on AT&T and only AT&T.

If you regularly sync your iPhone to iTunes and update your phone every time iTunes tells you that there's an update, then you're probably running 05.12 and are SOL.

[Yaz4Ever]

05.12.01 on both the 8 and 16GB 3Gs. No point in jailbreaking them?

[teddykgb]

No, there's still plenty of point in jailbreaking the phone, the jailbreak is a distinct thing from the unlock. As of right now, you can't unlock it, although I had heard rumors that that may change. No matter what, you can jailbreak it, which allows you to run non app store apps.

As an example, MyWi turns your iphone 3gs into a mobile hotspot. I use this to get my ipad online anywhere, saving the money for the ipad data plan and since it looks like an os4 jailbreak is already working, I'll be able to do the same on the iphone 4 while keeping the unlimited data plan.

[Rustjive]

The 05.21.01 baseband carrier unlock is on the way - the exploit was actually discovered back in February, but the Dev Team et al. have been holding onto it and waiting for the iPhone 4 OS Gold Master to be released so that it isn't patched before then. The iPhone 4 OS GM release happened yesterday, so the baseband unlock is imminent.

edit: here's the tweet from musclenerd confirming what I'm saying: http://twitter.com/M...tus/15571825324

Edited by Rustjive, 08 June 2010 - 02:24 PM.

[fawstahcu]

You're absolutely right-- it's on the way. However, right now, there's nothing available.

In my eyes, I take any news of a 05.12 unlock with a grain of salt until I see it.

Teddy's right-- if you want to unload your old phone before the unlock comes out, there's still value in jailbreaking it.

[Leon Trotsky]

All of this is very helpful, dudes! Thanks!

I plan on unloading my 3g and upgrading, so I may be able to essentially upgrade for free it sounds like. Loving this thing more by the minute.