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World Cup thoughts without threads


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#101 DLew On Roids


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Posted 19 June 2010 - 12:47 PM

I bought a size XL Kaiserslautern jersey when I was in Germany a few years ago. I got home and realized it was a lycra skin-tight model. To avoid scaring children and small animals, I only wear it when working out at home.

#102 Vinho Tinto

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 07:19 PM

What's that? Missed a game and want to watch a replay?

ESPN and Univision have games available On Demand. Univision has the Mexico games in HD. If you want to see Raymond Domenech stress out at the highest picture quality possible - here's your chance.


#103 Phil Plantier

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 11:20 PM

It's possible (though unlikely) that every player in the nike ad might miss the knockout rounds (although, to be fair, I have no idea who those three guys at the lunch counter are)

#104 Billy R Ford


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Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:15 AM

QUOTE (Phil Plantier @ Jun 21 2010, 12:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's possible (though unlikely) that every player in the nike ad might miss the knockout rounds (although, to be fair, I have no idea who those three guys at the lunch counter are)


These guys? Pretty sure that's Iniesta, Fabregas, and Pique.



#105 RedSoxandBlueStripes

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 05:51 AM

I find myself warming to Maradona more with every press conference. Is it just me?

#106 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 21 June 2010 - 06:27 AM

QUOTE (RedSoxandBlueStripes @ Jun 21 2010, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I find myself warming to Maradona more with every press conference. Is it just me?

No, he's awesome.

The greatest footballer ever debate more or less has two sides: Pele or Maradona. You can tell an awful lot about someone's footballing philosophy based on who they choose.

#107 Zososoxfan

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 09:00 AM

QUOTE (Spacemans Bong @ Jun 21 2010, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, he's awesome.

The greatest footballer ever debate more or less has two sides: Pele or Maradona. You can tell an awful lot about someone's footballing philosophy based on who they choose.


I'm originally from B.A. so it's pretty obvious where my loyalties lie, but are you getting at Pele (team player) vs. Maradona (individual genius) or something else?

I've said since before the tournament that Maradona would be a good WC manager because he knows the pressure these players are under and his presence takes some of that pressure off. The fact that he's gotten the lineups and substitutions mostly right (still pissed that Cambiasso and Zanetti aren't in SA) only makes this squad more fearsome.

Unrelated but, does anyone have news about Samuel?

#108 Dehere

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 09:09 AM

QUOTE (RedSoxandBlueStripes @ Jun 21 2010, 06:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I find myself warming to Maradona more with every press conference. Is it just me?


Ozzie Guillen's long-lost twin brother. In a good way. I'm rooting for them.

#109 Vinho Tinto

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 09:11 AM

Guardian article on ticketing & the empty seats

#110 Dehere

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 10:30 AM

From the Guardian article:

"Instead, the finger is beginning to be pointed in the direction of the "Fifa family"."

This happens at the Olympics all the time. Tons of tickets get held back for sponsors who then don't show up. It sucks for fans but this isn't a problem that's exclusive to FIFA.

"The organisers' insistence on the use of credit cards and the internet to purchase tickets has discouraged people in countries where access to these means of payment is relatively less."

This is just mind-blowing to me. I realize it's easy to be critical now but how in the world did FIFA ever think this was a good idea? Total failure to account for fundamental cultural differences.







#111 dynomite

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:15 PM

My thought: the French are a bunch of whiners.

#112 RedSoxandBlueStripes

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 05:37 PM

Interesting point on the Pele/Maradona thing. I remember someone saying a similar thing about whether you preferred Best or Charlton from the 60s ManUre team. Charlton was the consummate professional, had an impeccable private life, won the World Cup, and played at a high level for a very long time.

Best was like something from another planet for a short time.

#113 idontlikecricketiloveit

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 10:14 PM

Don't know if this has been posted before but this official FIFA page is full of fascinating information.

Passing information, players heat maps, actual formation, player tracking, for every single game. I imagine this is right up SoSH's alley.

#114 filthywater49

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 11:43 PM

QUOTE (idontlikecricketiloveit @ Jun 21 2010, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don't know if this has been posted before but this official FIFA page is full of fascinating information.

Passing information, players heat maps, actual formation, player tracking, for every single game. I imagine this is right up SoSH's alley.


This is really cool. Thanks!

#115 Zososoxfan

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:30 PM

Very cool tidbit from the Argentina-Greece preview on espn.com:

QUOTE
There are eight Panathinaikos players on Greece's World Cup roster, the largest representation by one club on any World Cup team. There are three clubs with seven representatives on one squad: Bayern Munich (Germany), Barcelona (Spain) and April 25 (North Korea).


http://soccernet.esp...o...5901&ver=us

#116 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:30 PM



#117 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:06 PM

ESPN is showing now Two Escobars, the story of Pablo the narcotrafficer and Andres, the right back which was murdered after Colombia's bad showing in the world cup.

IT. IS. SUPERB. WATCH IT.

#118 Tony C


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Posted 22 June 2010 - 10:19 PM

Nick is totally right. Great, great documentary. Was in Medellin when Nacional won the Copa....joined the festivities, but knew little of the background. Now I know a lot more.

Like Nick says, don't miss it.



#119 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 06:48 AM

QUOTE (Zososoxfan @ Jun 21 2010, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm originally from B.A. so it's pretty obvious where my loyalties lie, but are you getting at Pele (team player) vs. Maradona (individual genius) or something else?

I've said since before the tournament that Maradona would be a good WC manager because he knows the pressure these players are under and his presence takes some of that pressure off. The fact that he's gotten the lineups and substitutions mostly right (still pissed that Cambiasso and Zanetti aren't in SA) only makes this squad more fearsome.

Unrelated but, does anyone have news about Samuel?

Pele is a team player. He's also got a lot of the qualities a lot of people want in a hero - he seems personable and happy all the time, he works as an ambassador. He's also totally corporate.

Maradona is an individual genius, and he's also totally mercurial, unreliable and a little unsavory. The cocaine, the hanging out with Camorristi, the pretty sordid post-football life until he got clean and lost weight. But he's also got a lot more of a rounded public personality than Pele ever had, he's dipped his toe in management and he's reached heights Pele never quite reached. Maradona dragged Napoli to titles in Serie A, and he captained Argentina to a World Cup where he was the dominant figure. Pele never did those.

It's a fascinating debate because a lot of people who pick Maradona tend to trend towards alternative views and ideas about football. I prefer Maradona, but I totally admit I prefer him because of matters really relating to his off the pitch manner and attitude rather than anything particularly relevant onfield, with the exception of Maradona's role in the 1986 World Cup.

It's genius defined in two different ways. In 1970, Pele received a ball which had been played by Clodoaldo, Gerson, and Jairzinho. He then stops and stands totally still thinking what he will do before laying it off casually to Carlos Alberto. In 1986, Maradona beat five men by himself. It's like how you take coffee.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 23 June 2010 - 06:55 AM.


#120 mabrowndog


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 08:06 AM

From CSNNE's Facebook update:

QUOTE
Taylor Twellman is going to be hanging out with fans at The Banshee in Dorchester today for USA's World Cup match vs. Algeria.

Great fucking pub. This is where a bunch of us met Fletcherpost, watched soccer, and got drunk as skunks when he came stateside.

#121 Bosoxen


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 08:59 AM

QUOTE (Nick Kaufman @ Jun 22 2010, 09:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ESPN is showing now Two Escobars, the story of Pablo the narcotrafficer and Andres, the right back which was murdered after Colombia's bad showing in the world cup.

IT. IS. SUPERB. WATCH IT.

I have it recorded. I can't wait to watch it.

#122 DLew On Roids


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 09:40 AM

Shorter Bonger: I like Maradona because he listens to Pacifica, too.

#123 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 06:39 PM

QUOTE (DLew On Roids @ Jun 23 2010, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Shorter Bonger: I like Maradona because he listens to Pacifica, too.

I've got a Che t-shirt, he has a Che tattoo! We're like soulmates!

#124 SydneySox


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 07:05 PM



#125 RedSoxFan

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 08:20 PM

Can't take credit for this one, but:

This year's World Cup is working out like WW2 - France has forfeited, the USA turned up late, and England is left to fight the Germans!

#126 filthywater49

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 11:49 PM

QUOTE (SydneySox @ Jun 23 2010, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I'm not sure what it is about this that I love so much, but this is so fucking great.

#127 Tony the Pony


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Posted 23 June 2010 - 11:51 PM

Why is that?

There's probably 2,000 more people sitting around that guy with their midddle fingers up. What am I missing?

#128 filthywater49

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:20 AM

QUOTE (Tony the Pony @ Jun 23 2010, 11:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why is that?

There's probably 2,000 more people sitting around that guy with their midddle fingers up. What am I missing?


I think it's a combination of the fact that they aired it on television and the shit-eating grin on the guy's face despite the fact that his team had basically been eliminated from the tournament by then. It warms my heart.

Edited by filthywater49, 24 June 2010 - 12:24 AM.


#129 filthywater49

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:38 AM

This is how you call a fucking goal. This guy has pipes, spirit, and now a sore throat.

#130 SydneySox


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:02 AM

QUOTE (Tony the Pony @ Jun 24 2010, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why is that?

There's probably 2,000 more people sitting around that guy with their midddle fingers up. What am I missing?


I'm giving you the double middle right now.



#131 Tony C


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:41 AM

QUOTE (filthywater49 @ Jun 23 2010, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is how you call a fucking goal. This guy has pipes, spirit, and now a sore throat.


that rocked.



#132 Phil Plantier

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 09:32 AM

I understand the Steven Cohen hate, really I do, but World Football Daily's first two guests last night were Ian Darke and Grant Wahl - pretty impressive.

#133 DLew On Roids


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:41 AM

How many things did he try to sell before he got to the interviews?

#134 Paradigm


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (filthywater49 @ Jun 24 2010, 01:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is how you call a fucking goal. This guy has pipes, spirit, and now a sore throat.


Thanks for that.

#135 Zomp


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:19 PM


pounditupdated.gif pounditupdated.gif



#136 EastCoasterOutWest

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 12:27 PM

QUOTE (filthywater49 @ Jun 23 2010, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is how you call a fucking goal. This guy has pipes, spirit, and now a sore throat.


Fucking awesome.

In comparison, John Harkes is the flea this man picks off his dog.

#137 Bleedred

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:13 PM

QUOTE (EastCoasterOutWest @ Jun 24 2010, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fucking awesome.

In comparison, John Harkes is the flea this man picks off his dog.


This is an absolutely sincere question. For those of you who love soccer (and I confess that I am not a huge Soccer fan, but I am loving the world cup), how do you reconcile the great skill, strength, physicality and artistry of these admittedly great players, with the pathetic, "diva-ish" attitudes they all seem to have, and as importantly, the outright fraudulent approach to "injuries" during play? The fact that it is apparently part of the game to try to deceive the officials (some of whom are as bad as NBA officials) into making game-changing calls sullies an otherwise excellent sport for me If I see another player down from sniper fire, only to rise 30 seconds later and boom an 80MPH kick, it will be the 100th time this tournament.

I know that a player can receive a yellow card for faking an injury, but that is a tough call for an official unless he sees exactly what happened. What about a rule that sends off a player for some period of time, putting his team a man down (1, 2 or 3 minutes might make sense), if he stays on the field for more than 20 seconds, or if he is required to be taken off by stretcher?

#138 SumnerH


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:32 PM

QUOTE (Bleedred @ Jun 24 2010, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The fact that it is apparently part of the game to try to deceive the officials (some of whom are as bad as NBA officials) into making game-changing calls sullies an otherwise excellent sport for me


I take it that you object when a catcher tries to trick the ump into calling a ball a strike by framing it with his glove, or when an outfielder makes a dubious on the hop catch and holds up his glove as though to indicate it was clean?

#139 filthywater49

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:45 PM

QUOTE (Bleedred @ Jun 24 2010, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is an absolutely sincere question. For those of you who love soccer (and I confess that I am not a huge Soccer fan, but I am loving the world cup), how do you reconcile the great skill, strength, physicality and artistry of these admittedly great players, with the pathetic, "diva-ish" attitudes they all seem to have, and as importantly, the outright fraudulent approach to "injuries" during play? The fact that it is apparently part of the game to try to deceive the officials (some of whom are as bad as NBA officials) into making game-changing calls sullies an otherwise excellent sport for me ?


As stated above, something like this happens in a lot of other sports. But most of us (at least in the United States) don't try to reconcile it. We hate it and believe the game would be better off without it.

#140 Bleedred

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:53 PM

QUOTE (SumnerH @ Jun 24 2010, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I take it that you object when a catcher tries to trick the ump into calling a ball a strike by framing it with his glove, or when an outfielder makes a dubious on the hop catch and holds up his glove as though to indicate it was clean?


Completely uncompelling and non-persuasive. Clearly you don't appreciate matters of degree. The closer, apt analogy IMO is when a defender flops on an offensive foul call in basketball. Even then, the official is typically within 5 feet, not 30 yards, of the play, and the offensive player is never at risk of being thrown out of the game or sent off for the following game. The person who took the charge is also not writhing in agony and rolling around the court as if somone just hit him in the head with a meat cleaver.

Edit: spelling

Edited by Bleedred, 24 June 2010 - 01:55 PM.


#141 Bleedred

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:54 PM

QUOTE (filthywater49 @ Jun 24 2010, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As stated above, something like this happens in a lot of other sports. But most of us (at least in the United States) don't try to reconcile it. We hate it and believe the game would be better off without it.


Well said.

#142 DLew On Roids


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 01:56 PM

Keep in mind that World Cup finals shows the worst of this behavior. Not only are players desperate, but the referees don't know them very well, so you see a lot more histrionics intended to fool the referees. You'd think from watching the World Cup that Italy's Serie A must be a melodrama of the highest order, with players feigning operatic deaths to sway the referees, but the gamesmanship isn't that big a deal even there.

#143 Huntington Avenue Grounds

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:06 PM

QUOTE (Bleedred @ Jun 24 2010, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Completely uncompelling and non-persuasive. Clearly you don't appreciate matters of degree. The closer, apt analogy IMO is when a defender flops on an offensive foul call in basketball. Even then, the official is typically within 5 feet, not 30 yards, of the play, and the offensive player is never at risk of being thrown out of the game or sent off for the following game. The person who took the charge is also not writhing in agony and rolling around the court as if somone just hit him in the head with a meat cleaver.

Edit: spelling


How about in the just completed NBA finals when Rondo pushes Artest, who reacts like he had been hit by a truck? Rondo gets a technical foul (yellow card) and everyone laughs about it in the press conference later. It's annoying to see and frustrating to deal with, but the culture of North American sports is ingrained in us and these annoyances don't get blow up like they do here, with a sport many of us watch occasionally and don't fully understand the appeal of.

As a super casual fan here, and a fairly lazy person in general, I'd also guess that this embellishment is a tactic to get a few seconds breather since there are no timeouts to stop the action otherwise. Yeah side outs, corner and goal kicks, along with goals will halt things for a minute or two, but lying on the turf for 45 seconds gets your guys a breather why not do it?

#144 Zososoxfan

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:33 PM

QUOTE (Bleedred @ Jun 24 2010, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is an absolutely sincere question. For those of you who love soccer (and I confess that I am not a huge Soccer fan, but I am loving the world cup), how do you reconcile the great skill, strength, physicality and artistry of these admittedly great players, with the pathetic, "diva-ish" attitudes they all seem to have, and as importantly, the outright fraudulent approach to "injuries" during play? The fact that it is apparently part of the game to try to deceive the officials (some of whom are as bad as NBA officials) into making game-changing calls sullies an otherwise excellent sport for me If I see another player down from sniper fire, only to rise 30 seconds later and boom an 80MPH kick, it will be the 100th time this tournament.

I know that a player can receive a yellow card for faking an injury, but that is a tough call for an official unless he sees exactly what happened. What about a rule that sends off a player for some period of time, putting his team a man down (1, 2 or 3 minutes might make sense), if he stays on the field for more than 20 seconds, or if he is required to be taken off by stretcher?


As a diehard fan, I'm all for this, with the exception that if a sub is made for a "fallen" player, no time playing a man down is required. I'd also do away with the injury-etiquette bullshit. If you're hurt, stay down and have the ref whistle the play dead. It's noble to have this gentlemanly aspect to the game, but the game is big business now and there are few gentlemen if any, playing it professionally at this point.

#145 Bleedred

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:47 PM

QUOTE (Huntington Avenue Grounds @ Jun 24 2010, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How about in the just completed NBA finals when Rondo pushes Artest, who reacts like he had been hit by a truck? Rondo gets a technical foul (yellow card) and everyone laughs about it in the press conference later. It's annoying to see and frustrating to deal with, but the culture of North American sports is ingrained in us and these annoyances don't get blow up like they do here, with a sport many of us watch occasionally and don't fully understand the appeal of.


A much better analogy. Two differences (and maybe it's just magnified because I'm watching Soccer for the first time): 1. More often than not, the Soccer foul doesn't rise to anything close to the reaction made by the player. There has to have been 20 times so far that I've seen in this world cup where a player looks like he has been stabbed with a knife, only for the replay to show he is so full of shit. The Artest/Rondo thing is somewhat of an aberration, and the technical unusual. 2. In the Artest/Rondo example, I would argue that the ref simply made a bonehead decision about a situation that unfolded right in front of him, which may or may not have been affected by Artest's fakery. In Soccer, the officials are often making reactive calls because distance between them and the purported foul forces them to somehow rely on the "victimized" players reaction. Still, you make a good point.

#146 Huntington Avenue Grounds

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 03:36 PM

QUOTE (Bleedred @ Jun 24 2010, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A much better analogy. Two differences (and maybe it's just magnified because I'm watching Soccer for the first time): 1. More often than not, the Soccer foul doesn't rise to anything close to the reaction made by the player. There has to have been 20 times so far that I've seen in this world cup where a player looks like he has been stabbed with a knife, only for the replay to show he is so full of shit. The Artest/Rondo thing is somewhat of an aberration, and the technical unusual. 2. In the Artest/Rondo example, I would argue that the ref simply made a bonehead decision about a situation that unfolded right in front of him, which may or may not have been affected by Artest's fakery. In Soccer, the officials are often making reactive calls because distance between them and the purported foul forces them to somehow rely on the "victimized" players reaction. Still, you make a good point.


Have you played any competitive soccer? I ask honestly, because I have not, but can see how if I were running at full speed and got tripped, tangled, or tackled it would hurt like a mofo. Hell, in the NFL if a receiver/db get tangled up like that it's a penalty 9 times out of 10. You make a fair point about distance and reaction, but if, like you said, refs in the NBA can't figure out what is/isn't a foul from a few feet what chances does a ref have from 25 yards? Faking seems a natural outcome to try and gain tactical advantage, not one I approve of nor want to see but that goes for the four corners offense, prevent defense, neutral zone trap, and many other strategies that add nothing to the beauty of the game itself.

FWIW, I love the idea of any player who is on the ground for more than a few seconds has to clear to the sideline before rejoining play. Probably a million reasons it doesn't work but to my noob eye it would get guys up a heck of a lot faster.


#147 Jamoked

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 03:58 PM

Fan's Reaction to Landon Donovan's Game Winning Goal

Set to the tune of Rudy.

#148 wilked

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 04:52 PM

OK that is fucking awesome

#149 Warning Track Speed

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:08 PM

That is pretty good.

Do a lot of people film themselves watching television alone?

#150 nvalvo


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Posted 24 June 2010 - 05:33 PM

QUOTE (Bleedred @ Jun 24 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. More often than not, the Soccer foul doesn't rise to anything close to the reaction made by the player. There has to have been 20 times so far that I've seen in this world cup where a player looks like he has been stabbed with a knife, only for the replay to show he is so full of shit. The Artest/Rondo thing is somewhat of an aberration, and the technical unusual.


But sometimes it does, or even exceeds it.

Both Dempsey and Demerit received stitches *during* the Algeria game. I don't recall that either player received a free kick, although Demerit may have. Dempsey, remember, was elbowed in the face in the box, a play that could easily have led to a sendoff and a penalty.

Demerit barely seemed to flinch, and I didn't realize he was hurt until ESPN showed him with blood all over his jersey.

ETA: the point, which is that sometimes it's hard to detect even very rough play. The ref totally missed the Dempsey play, which may have been totally accidental.

Edited by nvalvo, 24 June 2010 - 05:36 PM.