185 replies to this topic

[goyangfc]

England v. United States. Who is the boss?

[PedroSpecialK]

England v. United States. Who is the boss?

[Dan Murfman]

All times Eastern

6/12 2:30 PM

USA vs England

6/13 7:30 AM

Algeria vs Slovenia

6/18 10:00 AM

USA vs Slovenia

6/18 2:30 PM

England vs Algeria

6/23 10:00 AM

England vs Slovenia
USA vs Algeria

[Jed Zeppelin]

I like that USA/England is the first match in the group. Gets all the hype out of the way and I don't have to worry about the Americans not getting up for an opponent because they're subconsciously saving it for England.

[MarkInLondon]

England v. United States. Who is the boss?

Both should qualify - this game will just decide the order in which they do.

[Zomp]

I actually don't like that they play each other in the first match. My hope would have been to have it be the last match so *hopefully* all that there was to play for is first in the group. If the US lose to England (probably better than a 50% chance, realistically), it makes there other two games pressure packed must wins.

[MarkInLondon]

I actually don't like that they play each other in the first match. My hope would have been to have it be the last match so *hopefully* all that there was to play for is first in the group. If the US lose to England (probably better than a 50% chance, realistically), it makes there other two games pressure packed must wins.

Never underestimate the English capacity to fuck up the opening game of a World Cup.

It's perennially followed by much wailing and gnashing of teeth and a ritual ridiculing in the tabloids -possible headline: 'You're In-Cappelloable')

They then win the second game quite comfortably ('We told you so' says The Sun) and do enough in the third game to go through. ('We're gonna win the cup')

They will then play their best football in the last 16 round... followed by the quarter final turning into some sort of 'epic' due to a sending off, and then they go out on penalties....

[Mike Greenwall]

Never underestimate the English capacity to fuck up the opening game of a World Cup.

It's perennially followed by much wailing and gnashing of teeth and a ritual ridiculing in the tabloids -possible headline: 'You're In-Cappelloable')

They then win the second game quite comfortably ('We told you so' says The Sun) and do enough in the third game to go through. ('We're gonna win the cup')

They will then play their best football in the last 16 round... followed by the quarter final turning into some sort of 'epic' due to a sending off, and then they go out on penalties....

Yeah, that's pretty much how it goes. Maybe a ankle snapping somewhere, before June 12.

[cjdmadcow]

It's perennially followed by much wailing and gnashing of teeth and a ritual ridiculing in the tabloids -possible headline: 'You're In-Cappelloable')

Tabloid readers wouldn't understand, or appreciate, the use of such a long word. You need to lower the bar.

[Spacemans Bong]

I'm really hoping the national overconfidence that will inevitably happen before June 12 will fasten itself to the England team. I am prepared for the media to be utterly insufferable and condescending towards American soccer.

[ypioca]

I'm really hoping the national overconfidence that will inevitably happen before June 12 will fasten itself to the England team. I am prepared for the media to be utterly insufferable and condescending towards American soccer.

[Philip Jeff Frye]

I'm really hoping the national overconfidence that will inevitably happen before June 12 will fasten itself to the England team. I am prepared for the media to be utterly insufferable and condescending towards American soccer.

Well, tonight's effort against the Czechs should play right into your diabolical plan.

Edited by Philip Jeff Frye, 26 May 2010 - 08:29 AM.

[teddykgb]

Some typical american defending on display

[Sille Skrub]

I'm really hoping the national overconfidence that will inevitably happen before June 12 will fasten itself to the England team. I am prepared for the media to be utterly insufferable and condescending towards American soccer.

[RedOctober3829]

I'm really hoping the national overconfidence that will inevitably happen before June 12 will fasten itself to the England team. I am prepared for the media to be utterly insufferable and condescending towards American soccer.

Until they actually accomplish something such as make the semifinals of the World Cup, the media can be as condescending as they want towards US Soccer. Every time they get our hopes up they come crashing down just as hard. Prime example is last summer's Confed Cup.

[Vinho Tinto]

Until they actually accomplish something such as make the semifinals of the World Cup, the media can be as condescending as they want towards US Soccer. Every time they get our hopes up they come crashing down just as hard. Prime example is last summer's Confed Cup.

They lost a cup final to Brazil. Not sure why that would invoke crashed hopes.

[Spacemans Bong]

Yeah, that wasn't too bad. As I saw it most people were relieved by Algeria/Slovenia being in their group (teams England should definitely beat), therefore putting England in a strong position to qualify for the knockout tournament. I was mildly impressed with the media, they generally reminded their readers that the US aren't half bad and aren't a team England should look past.

The Confed Cup (which was shown on the BBC), the success of American goalkeepers and Landon Donovan's surprisingly good cameo with Everton has generally opened most people's eyes to the US being a decent team. The problem is as the World Cup approaches the jingoism starts and the media falls over itself trying to one-up each other to tell us how great England are and how the boys will bring the trophy to the home of football, blah blah blah. And that's when the soccerball references start and I'll get reminded how Americans call football a game that they play with their hands and people just abandon all sense of objective thought.

England should and probably will win the game. We just don't match up well with them, since we're basically a less good version of them, plus they have a much better manager. But if we win..oh man. It'll be great.

Until they actually accomplish something such as make the semifinals of the World Cup, the media can be as condescending as they want towards US Soccer. Every time they get our hopes up they come crashing down just as hard. Prime example is last summer's Confed Cup.

But England are the reigning world champions of unfilled expectations.

They've won fewer major tournaments than Greece since Nixon assumed the presidency. They've made the semifinals of *one* major tournament since 1968.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 25 May 2010 - 11:51 PM.

[Jed Zeppelin]

Final 23:

GK: Guzan, Hahnemann, Howard
D: Boca, Bornstein (FUCK), Cherundolo, DeMerit, Goodson, Gooch, Spector
MF: Beasley, Bradley, Clark, Dempsey, Donovan, Edu, Feilhaber, Holden, Torres
F: Jozy, Buddle, Findley, Gomez

[SoxFanInCali]

Ching being left off is pretty surprising.

[WoburnDiaspora]

Final 23:

GK: Guzan, Hahnemann, Howard
D: Boca, Bornstein (FUCK), Cherundolo, DeMerit, Goodson, Gooch, Spector
MF: Beasley, Bradley, Clark, Dempsey, Donovan, Edu, Feilhaber, Holden, Torres
F: Jozy, Buddle, Findley, Gomez

Every time I see Bornstein he is screwing something up. And that something happens so many times in a game that I find myself cursing him on every occasion that the ball enters his part of the field.

I hate that he made the team.

[teddykgb]

I'm not sure the US squad is good enough in multiple areas, but that back line remains more terrifying than the rest

[BelgianSoxFan]

I actually don't like that they play each other in the first match. My hope would have been to have it be the last match so *hopefully* all that there was to play for is first in the group. If the US lose to England (probably better than a 50% chance, realistically), it makes there other two games pressure packed must wins.

This is the World Cup, every game (but the third one in the first round) is always a must-win game. It would be great to see the US do well, but I think the US is much more closely matched to Slovenia and Algeria than to England. Hopefully England chokes, but if Algeria or Slovenia are playing at their best, the US also better play at their best, because that second spot is anything but a given. Beating England would be a huge upset, it would not be that big of an upset if Algeria or Slovenia beat the US (though not expected).

[URI]

[Spacemans Bong]

I want to fuck this t-shirt.

[accidentalsuccess]

Final 23:

GK: Guzan, Hahnemann, Howard
D: Boca, Bornstein (FUCK), Cherundolo, DeMerit, Goodson, Gooch, Spector
MF: Beasley, Bradley, Clark, Dempsey, Donovan, Edu, Feilhaber, Holden, Torres
F: Jozy, Buddle, Findley, Gomez

Beasley had better show up. . .I'm still mad at him. Bornstein had better f'ing mark the weak side for once, too (if he sees the field)...he gets sucked in ball watching and looks shocked like a kid on their first travel team ball when the ball gets switched and he's out of position.

We have a solid side but ultimately we'll rise or fall on Donovan's ability to create chances for himself and others.

[Carmine Hose]

I'm an American of Irish and Lithuanian descent. I'm rooting for England because, you know, they are actually good. And they have Wazza.

That Donovan sign is so ironic given how much of a gigantic pussy he is and the implication that he could do anything more than break a nail trying to slap Rooney is laughable.

That said, after Saturday, I'll throw some token support to the US in the hopes of a Miracle on Ice type of run. Just can't see it at this stage.

[EastCoasterOutWest]

I'm an American of Irish and Lithuanian descent. I'm rooting for England because, you know, they are actually good. And they have Wazza.

That Donovan sign is so ironic given how much of a gigantic pussy he is and the implication that he could do anything more than break a nail trying to slap Rooney is laughable.

That said, after Saturday, I'll throw some token support to the US in the hopes of a Miracle on Ice type of run. Just can't see it at this stage.

Just hoping to get out of the group and maybe win one in the knockout. I'd be happy with that.

[filthywater49]

That said, after Saturday, I'll throw some token support to the US in the hopes of a Miracle on Ice type of run.

That's awfully big of you. Were you an Angels fan in 2002, also?

[cromulence]

I'm an American of Irish and Lithuanian descent. I'm rooting for England because, you know, they are actually good. And they have Wazza.

That Donovan sign is so ironic given how much of a gigantic pussy he is and the implication that he could do anything more than break a nail trying to slap Rooney is laughable.

That said, after Saturday, I'll throw some token support to the US in the hopes of a Miracle on Ice type of run. Just can't see it at this stage.

Are you fucking kidding me? If you were born and raised in the US your bloodlines mean shit. You should root for the US. Period. Being a frontrunner is for pussies.

[filthywater49]

Are you fucking kidding me? If you were born and raised in the US your bloodlines mean shit. You should root for the US. Period. Being a frontrunner is for pussies.

Also, if he were going by bloodlines (which I think is fine for selecting a 2nd a 3rd team to root for while retaining your true support for your home nation), he'd fucking be rooting against England anyway.

But yeah, Landon Donovan is a pussy and Carmine is Mr. Overcomes Adversity.

[Carmine Hose]

That's awfully big of you. Were you an Angels fan in 2002, also?

No

Are you fucking kidding me? If you were born and raised in the US your bloodlines mean shit. You should root for the US. Period. Being a frontrunner is for pussies.

Landon Donovan must be the King of the Frontrunners then.

Also, if he were going by bloodlines (which I think is fine for selecting a 2nd a 3rd team to root for while retaining your true support for your home nation), he'd fucking be rooting against England anyway.

That's the irony of the whole thing, no?

Is there one non-keeper world class player on the US squad? Maybe Dempsey? I like his game.

My attitude is probably related to my distaste for the state of soccer overall in the US, from youth on up. Given the resources here, it should be way better. Or I just like being the turd in the punch bowl. I do quite enjoy the hissy fits.

[cromulence]

Landon Donovan must be the King of the Frontrunners then.

Uhhhhh....what? Is he playing for England?

My attitude is probably related to my distaste for the state of soccer overall in the US, from youth on up. Given the resources here, it should be way better. Or I just like being the turd in the punch bowl. I do quite enjoy the hissy fits.

OK so you're just kind of a douche. Cool.

[BoSoxFink]

Landon Donovan must be the King of the Frontrunners then.



That's the irony of the whole thing, no?

Is there one non-keeper world class player on the US squad? Maybe Dempsey? I like his game.

My attitude is probably related to my distaste for the state of soccer overall in the US, from youth on up. Given the resources here, it should be way better. Or I just like being the turd in the punch bowl. I do quite enjoy the hissy fits.

What the hell do you have against Landon Donovan? He is the best player statisically the US national squad has ever had and he faired pretty well when he went over to Everton and was well liked there as well.

Dempsey is also a world class player, not as good as Donovan, but he gets fair more grief from his own country fans then he does from his European fans. He is loved over there and is sometimes accused of dogging it here.

The state of soccer in the US is actually on the rise. If you were talking prior to the 2002 world cup, then you would have a point, no one gave a damn. I think interest is continuing to grow and although it may never overtake the 4 major sports here in the US, they do continue to get better.

[filthywater49]

My attitude is probably related to my distaste for the state of soccer overall in the US, from youth on up. Given the resources here, it should be way better.

I assume you understand that the state of soccer after the youth level, (i.e. college, the MLS, USL, and feeder leagues, and the national teams) needs, among other things, the support of Americans to improve. If you want to talk about irony, the most ironic thing here is you bitching about how we're not good enough and then contributing to the problem yourself by thumbing your nose at US soccer.

Also, Landon Donovan is the "King of Frontrunners?" You make no sense, man. I'm willing to bet that you have seen about 10% of the domestic and international games he's ever competed in.

Edited by filthywater49, 10 June 2010 - 11:48 AM.

[Spacemans Bong]

In 2002 I rooted for the Yankees because the Red sox didn't maximize their revenue streams enough and neglected their farm system. They had a cable network for 20 years! they should have been dominating the league!!!

[filthywater49]

In 2002 I rooted for the Yankees because the Red sox didn't maximize their revenue streams enough and neglected their farm system. They had a cable network for 20 years! they should have been dominating the league!!!

Stop it. Pedro was a fucking pussy. Who could have rooted for the Sox?

[TheRealness]

10%? That's generous.

[EastCoasterOutWest]

Dempsey is also a world class player, not as good as Donovan, but he gets fair more grief from his own country fans then he does from his European fans. He is loved over there and is sometimes accused of dogging it here.

Going to derail.

Is Donovan seen as a harder worker/better player than Dempsey by US fans because:

1) Donovan is typically the best (or one of) player on his team and has to do more to get results and therefore is seen as a better player than he is
2) Dempsey is playing with a higher caliber of talent (team-wise) than Donovan and is able to play a role, rather than attempting to do everything and therefore is seen as a lower caliber player than he is
3) Donovan is actually better
4) Dempsey is dogging it

CH can root for whomever he likes. I follow France (secondarily) because of my heritage. I follow England (also secondarily) because I follow the EPL. If you don't want to follow the US team because you don't know any of them (besides those that play in the EPL, which is what you follow), I don't get the hate.

Edited for clarity.

Edited by EastCoasterOutWest, 10 June 2010 - 02:58 PM.

[BoSoxFink]

Going to derail.

Is Donovan seen as a harder worker/better player than Dempsey by US fans because:

1) Donovan is typically the best (or one of) player on his team and has to do more to get results and therefore is seen as a better player than he is
2) Dempsey is playing with a higher caliber of talent (team-wise) than Donovan and is able to play a role, rather than attempting to do everything and therefore is seen as a lower caliber player than he is
3) Donovan is actually better
4) Dempsey is dogging it

CH can root for whomever he likes. I follow France (secondarily) because of my heritage. I follow England (also secondarily) because I follow the EPL. If you don't want to follow the US team because you don't know any of them (besides those that play in the EPL, which is what you follow), I don't get the hate.

Edited for clarity.

I'm not ridiculing CH for rooting for another team, god knows there are ton of poeple in Boston alone rooting for other soccer teams other than the United States in the world cup. My main problem was his pure hatred for the team and Donovan in general. I did not understand the "Frontrunner" comment about Donovan, it didn't make sense to me. Also why does he hate the US team so much? Is it their fault that a lot of fans just don't watch much soccer here?

Also to answer the Dempsey/Donovan question, I would say it is more that Donovan is more talented than Dempsey, but that is not taking anything away from Dempsey, it just says more to how good Donovan is. Donovan recently passed Wynalda as the highest scoring player in USA national team history and has over 40 goals and he is still only 28 I believe.

Dempsey is a great player as well but I don't see him as being quite as talented as Donovan. He has 18 goals for the US national team and will no doubt get more and may end up being the second all time leading scorer when all is said and done. The problem with Dempsey is that sometimes people claim he quits on the play, which may have been more true in his younger days than it is now. Any ridicule thrown his way usually is not deserved in my opinion.

[filthywater49]

CH can root for whomever he likes. I follow France (secondarily) because of my heritage. I follow England (also secondarily) because I follow the EPL. If you don't want to follow the US team because you don't know any of them (besides those that play in the EPL, which is what you follow), I don't get the hate.

Edited for clarity.

He didn't say anything about "not knowing any of them," and he appears at the very least to already be an expert on Landon Donovan. He said he's rooting for England because "they're, you know, actually good," so we can assume conversely that he doesn't root for the USA because they're "not good." He says he doesn't root for USMNT because US Soccer "should be better."

Also, we're not talking about "following" the team here. We're talking about not rooting against your own country in one game in favor of another team simply because the other team is more likely to win games. He doesn't have to know shit about the team to do that, anyway.

Your interpretation of his rationale is inaccurate; the reasons he's giving to justify his position aren't the same as the ones you're defending.

And anyway, in this day an age, if he doesn't know anything about US players, it would be his own fault. Every national game is televised, it's not hard to find the MLS on TV, and the internet, well, exists.

Of course, he can root for whomever he wants, but he's not beyond reproach for his douchebag, frontrunning rationale for doing so.

Edited by filthywater49, 10 June 2010 - 03:18 PM.

[Jed Zeppelin]

I have English blood in my veins. I think I'll stick with the Colonies unless Bradley starts Clark on Saturday.

[Spacemans Bong]

95% of Americans who don't support the US team do so for what are at heart glory-hunting reasons. I'm cool if you don't support the US because man you just love Gambia, but there's not exactly a lot of those, are there? It's ALWAYS an established world soccer power.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 10 June 2010 - 03:31 PM.

[Billy R Ford]

I'm rooting for England because, you know, they are actually good.

Meh, who am I to judge? That's the same reason I'm a Yankees, Lakers, Cowboys, Duke, Notre Dame, and Globo Gym Purple Cobras fan.

*BOOM*BOOM*hissssssss...*


Though I have been known to grace the underdog with my token support as well. I was all over Liverpool during their heroic Europa League run this past year. I'm a sports fan like that.

[SoxFanInCali]

He said that Donovan is King of the Frontrunners after cromulence said "Being a frontrunner is for pussies".

Hence, he is calling Dovovan the King of the Pussies.

Don't take this as a defense of Carmine, who besides being a terrorist who hates America, is also a Man U fan. Cunt.

[BoSoxFink]

He said that Donovan is King of the Frontrunners after cromulence said "Being a frontrunner is for pussies".

Hence, he is calling Dovovan the King of the Pussies.

Don't take this as a defense of Carmine, who besides being a terrorist who hates America, is also a Man U fan. Cunt.

Ok well the frontrunner comment makes sense then now, but calling him a pussy I still don't understand. Does he think Donovan is soft? Does he think Donovan is a cry baby? Does he think Donovan is actually a woman named Linda not Landon? These are the question that need answering!

[EastCoasterOutWest]

He didn't say anything about "not knowing any of them," and he appears at the very least to already be an expert on Landon Donovan. He said he's rooting for England because "they're, you know, actually good," so we can assume conversely that he doesn't root for the USA because they're "not good." He says he doesn't root for USMNT because US Soccer "should be better."

Also, we're not talking about "following" the team here. We're talking about not rooting against your own country in one game in favor of another team simply because the other team is more likely to win games. He doesn't have to know shit about the team to do that, anyway.

Your interpretation of his rationale is inaccurate; the reasons he's giving to justify his position aren't the same as the ones you're defending.

And anyway, in this day an age, if he doesn't know anything about US players, it would be his own fault. Every national game is televised, it's not hard to find the MLS on TV, and the internet, well, exists.

Of course, he can root for whomever he wants, but he's not beyond reproach for his douchebag, frontrunning rationale for doing so.

I gathered this from his comments.

Ireland and Lithuania are not in the tourney, so he's rooting for England because they're good (the Rays are awesome!!1!1!!) and they have Rooney (I can understand rooting for your favorite player's team).

He thinks Rooney is head and shoulders above Donovan and Rooney would beat the ever-living shit out of him in a proper fight.

Then things got confusing.

[nvalvo]

This is my first Cup being really enthusiastic about the Americans. I don't really see them making it to the quarterfinals, but they seem at least credible.

It helps a lot that they are a real team now, with none of that Alexei Lalas novelty-ass bullshit some of the older versions had.

In the past, I rooted for teams whose players or styles I liked: Spain, the Dutch, Nigeria. Now that Spain are so heavily favored, I feel a little embarrassed about liking them, but I rooted hard for that team in Euro 2008. And fuck it, they're just awesome to watch.

But yeah: it's good to have a US team worth following.

[AusTexSoxFan]

Donovan has grown up alot in the last year. It really started at the Confed Cup. The guy has come into his own and it's a great thing for US Soccer. He's not 'Landy Cakes" anymore. Dude is ballin and he's gonna have a big game tomorrow.

Perople can criticize Bob Bradley and many times he deserves it, but one thing he's got going on this squad is unity. There's no drama. They fight for each other and they're gonna play their balls off tomorrow. That's all I can really ask for as USMNT fan.

[jon abbey]

So the result today has opened up some interesting possibilities for the US team. Clearly England are still strong favorites to win the group and clearly beating Slovenia and Algeria will be far from easy, but if the US somehow managed to finish first in the group (and Argentina and Germany won their groups as expected), the quarter of the draw that the US would then be in is by far the weakest of the four.

They'd first play the runnerup from group D (Serbia, Ghana, Australia), then if they survived that, they'd get the survivor from the winner of group A (France, Mexico, Uruguay, South Africa) and the runnerup of group B (South Korea, Nigeria, Greece). No wonder so many people picked England into the semifinals.

[ossie schreckengost]

and slovenia is 6.