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Group B: Argentina, Nigeria, Korea Republic, Greece


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#1 goyangfc


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Posted 20 May 2010 - 09:56 PM

Could Korea Republic repeat their adventure in '02?

#2 Zososoxfan

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:49 AM

QUOTE (goyangfc @ May 20 2010, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Could Korea Republic repeat their adventure in '02?


I don't see why not. I think Greece is going to get run over because they consistently park the bus (no pun intended) and I don't see them having the talent in place to make this strategy successful like at Euro 2004. Nigeria seems disorganized and doesn't have the high end talent they had in the past. So yeah, S. Korea certainly has the opportunity to advance.

Still can't believe El 10 forgot left off Cambiasso and Zanetti for this squad.

#3 ypioca

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:48 PM

QUOTE (Zososoxfan @ May 21 2010, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't see why not. I think Greece is going to get run over because they consistently park the bus (no pun intended) and I don't see them having the talent in place to make this strategy successful like at Euro 2004. Nigeria seems disorganized and doesn't have the high end talent they had in the past. So yeah, S. Korea certainly has the opportunity to advance.

Still can't believe El 10 forgot left off Cambiasso and Zanetti for this squad.


Completely agree on the Korea part, they have a good chance here. Nigeria has always relied heavily on individual talents, and this time, they aren't talented enough to carry the team IMO.

Argentina has been pretty underwhelming under Maradona, and I expect them to be the first contender to get eliminated. They have great talent, but without a decent manager, they can't win it all.

#4 Dan Murfman

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 07:37 PM

nm

Edited by Dan Murfman, 21 May 2010 - 07:44 PM.


#5 Dan Murfman

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 07:37 PM

All times Eastern

6/12 7:30 AM

South Korea vs Greece

6/12 10:00 AM

Argentina vs Nigeria

6/17 7:30 AM

Argentina vs South Korea

6/17 10:00 AM

Greece vs Nigeria

6/22 2:30 PM

Argentina vs Greece
South Korea vs Nigeria

Edited by Dan Murfman, 22 May 2010 - 12:22 PM.


#6 Apostle™

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 02:12 PM

QUOTE (goyangfc @ May 20 2010, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Could Korea Republic repeat their adventure in '02?


Not unless they throw elbows and cheat the way they did in 2002. How about they have Moreno officiate these matches as well, maybe then they'll advance. Honestly there's no reason they should have advanced in 2002 and there's even greater doubt they'll advance in 2010. Greece and Argentina advance to the knock out round. Book it!

#7 Zososoxfan

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 02:18 PM

QUOTE (Dan Murfman @ May 21 2010, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All times Eastern

6/12 7:30 AM

South Korea vs Greece

6/12 10:00 AM

Argentina vs Nigeria

6/17 7:30 AM

Argentina vs South Korea

6/17 10:00 AM

Greece vs Nigeria

6/22 2:30 PM

Argentina vs Greece
South Korea vs Nigeria


Are the times for the last 2 games tbd?

#8 goyangfc


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Posted 24 May 2010 - 02:21 PM

QUOTE (Zososoxfan @ May 24 2010, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are the times for the last 2 games tbd?

They are both on at the same time, i.e. at 2:30pm EDT on 22 June.

Edited by goyangfc, 24 May 2010 - 02:21 PM.


#9 Dummy Hoy


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Posted 24 May 2010 - 11:23 PM

QUOTE (ypioca @ May 21 2010, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Argentina has been pretty underwhelming under Maradona, and I expect them to be the first contender to get eliminated. They have great talent, but without a decent manager, they can't win it all.


I suspect Argentina will be among the more exciting teams in the tournament. I'm curious to see how much they will open it up, and how far that will take them.

I don't really follow footy enough to know- I'm curious what others think as far as Argentina's chances.

#10 goyangfc


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Posted 25 May 2010 - 09:15 AM

I'm really excited about the Argentina v Korea Rep. match. At the 1986 FIFA WC (Mexico), the two countries met in the group stage. Some of the things that came out of that match for Korea Rep.:

1. Korea Rep.'s first goal in the WC (Chang-Seon Park scored in the 73rd minute while we were down 3-0)

2. We only lost by 2 goals to the team with the great Maradona that went on to win the tournament. The tournament gave us hope for the future (We've made it to the WC 7 times in a row, including 1986 and 2010).

3. During the match, Maradona was marked by our current coach Jung-Moo Huh. The two players will meet again as managers.

Keep in mind that Korea Rep. won their first match on foreign soil just 4 years ago in 2006 (We beat Togo 2-0 in Germany). We haven't gone on to the knockout stage on foreign soil. We have a lot to prove.

#11 Infield Infidel


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Posted 25 May 2010 - 09:30 AM

QUOTE (goyangfc @ May 25 2010, 10:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm really excited about the Argentina v Korea Rep. match.
I'm also excited for that match, mainly because I'm going to it. Also Argentina - Nigeria.

It would be awesome to see Maradona go down in flames live.


#12 goyangfc


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Posted 25 May 2010 - 09:52 AM

QUOTE (Infield Infidel @ May 25 2010, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm also excited for that match, mainly because I'm going to it. Also Argentina - Nigeria.

It would be awesome to see Maradona go down in flames live.

Very jealous. Also to add, Korea Rep. won their first WC match just 8 years ago in 2002 (We beat Poland 2-0 in Korea). I do think we'll finally advance on foreign soil this time around though.

#13 goyangfc


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Posted 31 May 2010 - 04:27 PM

Korea Republic and Nigeria named their final 23-men squads. For Nigeria, Victor Anichebe (Everton) did not make the cut. Nothing surprising for Korea Rep.'s squad except for Tae-Hwi Kwak (Kyoto Sanga)'s injury in the friendly match v Belarus yesterday. He's replaced by the young defender Min-Soo Kang (Suwon). He told the media that he's puzzled about his feelings and that he's disappointed about Kwak's injury.

Spain v Korea Rep. on Thursday should be very interesting. This could boost the Red Devils' confidence (similar to what happened in 2002 (Korea Rep. 1-1 England, Korea Rep. 2-3 France)) as they start their campaign.

#14 goyangfc


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Posted 01 June 2010 - 12:37 PM

QUOTE (SeoulSoxFan @ Jun 1 2010, 02:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Better news? With a strong showing against Japan (2-0) with a striking Jisung goal, are considered to be the best squad ever, with the two Parks (Jisung Park and Chuyoung Park of AS Monaco), and Bolton's Chungyong Lee (winner of Wanderers' Player of the Year, Players' Player of the Year, and best newcomer awards.)

The energy and industriousness will always be there for the squad, but for the first time ever the Reds have skill in infront and in the midfield. If this squad wins against Greece (a must), keeps it down to a 2-goals-or-less loss against Argentina, then it'll come to a do-or-die match against Nigeria on the 22nd.

I still say Argentina and Nigeria move on comfortably, but facing a younger, more internationally seasoned Korean squad won't be a cakeover for either favorites.

I wholeheartedly agree on Korea Rep. having the skills for the first time. Chung-Yong Lee could be my friend (He was 13 years old when Korea Rep. got to the semis in 2002). The veteran Young-Pyo Lee (Al-Hilal; former Tottenham defender) told the media that the squad is much stronger than it was in 2002. If Korea Rep. beats Greece, I'd say we have a great chance in advancing to the knockout stage. The match against Argentina could really go anywhere, in my honest opinion. The "투혼" (鬪魂; the fighting spirit that the Koreans have) could put us in line for a draw. They got to the semis in 2002 with this and lots of luck. This time, they have the skills up front.

Greece's final 23-men squad announced.
QUOTE
Goalkeepers: Costas Halkias (PAOK), Alexandros Tzorvas (Panathinaikos), Michael Sifakis (Aris)

Defenders: Lukas Vyntra, Giorgos Seitaridis and Nikos Spyropoulos (Panathinaikos), Vangelis Moras (Bologna/ITA), Avraam Papadopoulos and Vasilis Torosidis (Olympiakos), Sotiris Kyrgiakos (Liverpool/ENG), Stelios Malezas (PAOK), Socrates Papastathopoulos (Genoa/ITA)

Midfielders: Costas Katsouranis, Sotiris Ninis and Giorgos Karagounis (Panathinaikos), Christos Patsatzoglou (Omonia/CYR), Alexandros Tziolis (Siena/ITA), Sakis Prittas (Aris), Angelos Haristeas (FC Nuremberg/GER)

Forwards: Dimitris Salpingidis (Panathinaikos), Fanis Gekas (Eintracht Frankfurt/GER), Giorgos Samaras (Celtic/SCO), Pantelis Kapetanos (Steaua Bucharest/ROM)

Edited by goyangfc, 01 June 2010 - 01:04 PM.


#15 filthywater49

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 05:01 PM

QUOTE (goyangfc @ Jun 1 2010, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They got to the semis in 2002 with this and lots of luck.


"Luck" as in they were "lucky" to have been the team selected to be forced into the semis regardless of how many goals had to be disallowed or blatant fouls had to be ignored? Yeah, they were really lucky.

It's not "luck" if it was completely orchestrated.


Edited by filthywater49, 01 June 2010 - 05:11 PM.


#16 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 02 June 2010 - 02:21 AM

Yeah, that video is pretty damning.

Greece suffers from a dearth of midfielders. We re going to be the only team to play 5-2-3 in a long long time. We knocked out Ukraine with that system though so who knows?

What's the name of that song btw?

#17 Billy R Ford


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Posted 02 June 2010 - 08:27 AM

QUOTE (Nick Kaufman @ Jun 2 2010, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What's the name of that song btw?


The first song is Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell, better known as Requiem for a Dream (it was written for that movie). It sounds like the re-orchestrated version "Requiem for a Tower" that was made for The Lord of the Rings and is seen in a bunch of movie trailers, including LotR. The second song is Gloomy Sunday sung by the jazz singer Billie Holiday.

#18 goyangfc


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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:24 AM

QUOTE (filthywater49 @ Jun 1 2010, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Luck" as in they were "lucky" to have been the team selected to be forced into the semis regardless of how many goals had to be disallowed or blatant fouls had to be ignored? Yeah, they were really lucky.

It's not "luck" if it was completely orchestrated.

Yes, we shouldn't have been there. There's no question about that. The only way out is to surprise the world on foreign soil.

#19 RedSoxandBlueStripes

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:32 AM

This is a facinating group, in part because Argentina-Greece-Nigeria brings back memories of '94, but mostly because although the 80s rock tribute act are almost certainly going to win it, I can make a case for any of the other three to progress- there really doesn't seem a lot between them.

#20 goyangfc


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Posted 02 June 2010 - 12:27 PM

QUOTE (RedSoxandBlueStripes @ Jun 2 2010, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is a facinating group, in part because Argentina-Greece-Nigeria brings back memories of '94, but mostly because although the 80s rock tribute act are almost certainly going to win it, I can make a case for any of the other three to progress- there really doesn't seem a lot between them.

This is exactly why the first match is so crucial for the three nations. Argentina will advance as the winners of the group, but the battle for second place will be very heavy.

#21 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 02 June 2010 - 01:15 PM

QUOTE (Billy R Ford @ Jun 2 2010, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The first song is Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell, better known as Requiem for a Dream (it was written for that movie). It sounds like the re-orchestrated version "Requiem for a Tower" that was made for The Lord of the Rings and is seen in a bunch of movie trailers, including LotR. The second song is Gloomy Sunday sung by the jazz singer Billie Holiday.



TYVM.

#22 LTF


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Posted 02 June 2010 - 01:55 PM

I can't wait to root against that big, ugly clod Samaras.

#23 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 02 June 2010 - 03:51 PM

Zonal Marking has some good stuff on all teams, but I think it explains Rehaggel better than anyone I know. Rehaggel is being savaged for the unattractive football he plays and the unorthodox formations he puts, but as it turns out, the 3-4-3 (5-2-3 really) might actually be at the avant-guarde of football tactics, while making a virtue of the team's lack of depth in the midfield position.




QUOTE
Otto Rehhagel is still in charge, and having played a variety of systems throughout qualification, appears to prefer a fairly defensive 4-3-3 shape that has generally been his favoured formation throughout his nine years in charge.

That’s not to say that he will keep the same shape throughout – indeed, it would be more of a surprise if he didn’t vary his tactics and alter personnel. As Euro 2004 showed, Rehhagel is a tactician in every sense of the word – changing his system at will to stifle his opponents, and to exploit their individual weaknesses.

There does appear to be a pattern to Rahhagel’s switches in formation – he always likes to have a spare centre-back. Go through the qualification matches for this tournament, and he switched between a few different shapes, most often a 3-4-3 and a 4-3-3. The three-man defence is used when the opposition play two forwards, the four-man defence is used when the opposition play three. Their formation will therefore probably depend on how Greece’s opponents are expected to line up.


http://www.zonalmark...t-strike-twice/

There's also this:
QUOTE
And so it is likely that the equivalent of a sweeper in future years will be a defensive midfielder dropping into the backline – with the centre-backs moving wide – rather than a centre-back pushing forward into the midfield. On this site, we have referred to this player as a centre-half (see Carsten Ramelow at Bayer Leverkusen, for example), such is the similarity in its nature to the ‘original’ centre-half, who permanently moved from the centre of midfield to the centre of defence.

The advantages? It widens the active playing area at both ends of the pitch, making it easier to keep possession, and tougher for the opposition to cover the space. It also creates a difficult situation for the opposition in terms of picking up players.

..





This diagram on the right shows how a switch from a four to a three-man defence when in possession can outwit the opposition. The problem with attacking full-backs at the moment is that they are never completely free to attack, they are always concerned about their defensive responsibilities, especially with the tendency for sides to deploy their most creative players as wingers. With a more reliable three-man defence, they can get to the opposition byline without leaving a huge hole at the back.

A big part of the switch is the role of the wide players on the Yellow side. Rather than stay wide (which would hamper the ability of the full-backs to get forward), they narrow and become almost a conventional front three. This has the effect of narrowing the opposition defence, as their natural markers (the White full-backs) follow them into the centre.

Of course, this opens up a huge amount of space on the flanks, which the full-backs can exploit. This presents a further problem for the Whites, as their wide midfield players are suddenly charged with almost a solely defensive job. If the Yellow full-backs get to the byline and the White wide midfielders track them all the way, the Whites will end up with something approaching a flat back six.

Furthermore, the evolved shape makes it relatively easy for the Yellows to keep possession – the three defenders and holding midfielder should be able to play their way around the two White strikers at the back.

So the advantages can be summarized as:

a) It allows the full-backs freedom to join the attack knowing the defence is covered

b) It makes keeping possession in defence easier

c) It stretches the play high up the pitch

d) If the opposition are playing creative players in wide areas, the centre-backs will be in a position to pick them up immediately.

e) It results in a system with three central forwards, an obvious goal threat

f) The opposition will be confused about who to pick up in wide areas

So, in theory, this system should work extremely well against a two-man attack, although it might face similar problems as the traditional three-man defence against one-man/three-man attacks. But the difference comes because the traditional three-man defence is a completely different system to the traditional four-man defence, which necessitates a different way of defending, and most likely a different selection of players. These shifts, as shown here by Brazil and Barcelona, are more flexible, and happen within games, rather than them lining up specifically like this. The system doesn’t have to shift against one- or three-man attacks, and therefore is free to adapt into a three-man defence when required, and stay as a four-man defence when that is more appropriate.


http://www.zonalmark...-to-prominence/


#24 filthywater49

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 05:06 PM

STOP RUINING SOCCER FOOTBALL.

#25 ossie schreckengost

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 05:24 AM

QUOTE (filthywater49 @ Jun 2 2010, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
STOP RUINING SOCCER FOOTBALL.



ggrmmpfff...assclown... rolling.gif


my love for otto is not an analytical love like nick´s. after all it was nick, whom otto and his greece team, made european champion. and deserverdly so. i just love to watch a fine defensive effort. and if this effort manages to defeat portugal´s golden generation. twice. in a single tournament. in portugal. i mean wtf?

and to think, that man was almost an outcast on our shores. and all he had to do, was to find the right team, and the right team to find him. das ist das wunder unserer zeit. this time in a good way. the bundesliga´s son is all he was. from his time with "rot-weiß essen" (who, as we speak, are put to death by the dfb. they´re in dire straits, rwe. one of the seminal teams in all of german football. the dfb likes its teams "fit and proper", to almost a fault. that´s why teams like rwe, the team of otto rehagel, and horst hrubesch, and willi "ente" lippens (that´s where tony could chime in) are disappearing. they´re making way for concoctions like redbull leipzig. who, 10 years from now, will play in europe. mark my words.)

anyway. otto, "the bundesliga´s son", will never go out of style. never. and i´d sooo wish him and the greece a resounding farewell.

this is otto in a nutshell, thinking to himself: "i do not understand that question...OOH FUCK, LET´S WING IT!!!"






König Otto. mit herz und mit leidenschaft.


edit for: heart&passion

Edited by ossie schreckengost, 03 June 2010 - 05:29 AM.


#26 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 04 June 2010 - 03:42 PM

Ossie, SOSH's only expressionist poster.



#27 wee 162

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 07:31 PM

QUOTE (ossie schreckengost @ Jun 3 2010, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
and to think, that man was almost an outcast on our shores. and all he had to do, was to find the right team, and the right team to find him. das ist das wunder unserer zeit. this time in a good way. the bundesliga´s son is all he was. from his time with "rot-weiß essen" (who, as we speak, are put to death by the dfb. they´re in dire straits, rwe. one of the seminal teams in all of german football. the dfb likes its teams "fit and proper", to almost a fault. that´s why teams like rwe, the team of otto rehagel, and horst hrubesch, and willi "ente" lippens (that´s where tony could chime in) are disappearing. they´re making way for concoctions like redbull leipzig. who, 10 years from now, will play in europe. mark my words.)

Rott Weiss Essen were the first ever German side to play in Europe. They lost in the first round of the inaugural European Cup to Hibs, who played them in a friendly to commemorate the 50th anniversary of it a couple of years ago. I never went, but apparently their fans were excellent and frankly a bit bewildered by a few hundred drunk Scots appearing for a friendly most of them only seemed to know was happening a couple of days beforehand.

#28 Apostle™

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 08:08 AM

Even though I love King Otto, I must say I'm disappointed with him in not choosing Konstantinos Mitroglou as one of the final 23. He's the top scorer for Olympiakos and is an absolute beast at finishing. I really think our squad would be better with him.

With that being said, I would love to see another miracle run like Euro 2004, but this team hasn't been playing the football it's capable of. The key for us is beating Korea Republic in the opening game, and taking advantage of Mikel injured against Nigeria in game 2. Then anything can happen in the knockout rounds. Lets keep our fingers crossed!!

sikoseto to gamimeno, den mporo den mporo na perimeno!!!!

#29 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 06 June 2010 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE
Even though I love King Otto, I must say I'm disappointed with him in not choosing Konstantinos Mitroglou as one of the final 23. He's the top scorer for Olympiakos and is an absolute beast at finishing. I really think our squad would be better with him.


Charisteas too valuable for the team. emot-buddy.gif

#30 goyangfc


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Posted 06 June 2010 - 10:13 PM

QUOTE (Apostle™ @ Jun 6 2010, 09:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The key for us is beating Korea Republic in the opening game, and taking advantage of Mikel injured against Nigeria in game 2.

And, the key for us is beating Greece in the first match.

Daehanminguk fighting!

Edited by goyangfc, 06 June 2010 - 10:14 PM.


#31 goyangfc


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Posted 07 June 2010 - 11:11 AM

Korea Rep.'s manager Jung-Moo Huh told the Korean media that Dong-guk "Lion King" Lee (Jeonbuk/KOR) will be available for the first match. This is his first World Cup since the 1998 tournament in France. He missed the 2002 tournament in Korea/Japan, because he did not make the cut for Hiddink. He missed the 2006 tournament in Germany due to injury.

Edited by goyangfc, 07 June 2010 - 11:12 AM.


#32 Zososoxfan

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 08:54 AM

QUOTE
PRETORIA, South Africa -- Diego Maradona seems to have settled on starting strikers Carlos Tevez, Lionel Messi and Gonzalo Higuain for the team's World Cup opener against Nigeria on Saturday.

Most reporters were barred from watching Wednesday's two practice matches. Team officials said Higuain and Javier Mascherano scored in a 2-0 victory against Argentina's backups. In another match, the second-stringers defeated a youth team 1-0, with Sergio Aguero scoring.



Maradona is widely expected to start the following team: Sergio Romero in goal behind defenders Gabriel Heinze, Martin Demichelis and Walter Samuel. The midfield will be Jonas Gutierrez, Angel Di Maria, Mascherano and Juan Sebastian Veron. They will be joined by the three strikers.

Heinze said it's a united Argentina, with none of the confusion and bickering that existed during qualifying, when the mercurial Maradona used 107 players trying to find a starting 11.

"We're all really good without any problems and fired up to get on the field," said Heinze. "We've been practicing at a very good level, and you'll see it on Saturday."

Heinze cautioned against overconfidence while facing a quick Nigerian team.

"Nigeria puts on lots of pressure, it's aggressive with players who have pace," he said. "We know many of them from playing them in European clubs."

The two-time World Cup champions overwhelmed Canada 5-0 in the last friendly, a sendoff on May 24 in Buenos Aires. After that victory, Maradona promised to run naked around the famed Obelisk in downtown Buenos Aires if Argentina wins its third World Cup title.


I've been saying all along that a 3-4-3 was Argentina's best formation - you get to put 3 out of the 5 (absurd) world-class strikers on the field, and only use 3 defenders (where IMHO, they lack quality the most).

My criticisms would be that:

1) Heinze and Demichelis may not be the right choices in the back over Otamendi or Burdisso, but I don't know enough to say that with certainty.

2) Mascherano and Di Maria are no brainers, but Maxi Rodriguez is also an option. Don't know Gutierrez' game well enough to say how it will mesh with Mascherano and Veron's.

3) I believe that Veron is expected to play as the 10, CAM role, and I don't know if that's any better than what Riquelme gave us in 2006. Juan Roman annoyed me to no end because he would always stop the flow of attack and play with his back to goal. He also lacked the pace to jump into attacks. Both of these shortcomings really cramp what Argentina is best known for - skillful, incisive, linking play. Could the same not be said for Veron?

*My little idea - play Messi in a roaming CAM role and get Aguero/Milito on the field. That lets Veron sink back and gets him into his comfort zone.*

4) If this is the formation, Milito's recent form makes the central forward call mildly controversial, but doesn't bother me in the slightest because Higuain is no slack either and has great size.

Wow, very excited.

#33 Zososoxfan

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 03:34 PM

Goyan, not jealous that you guys have the REALLY early game tomorrow. That being said, nursing my hangover at my old man's house tomorrow at 9:30am for Argentina will still suck a lot, right up until the very second the game starts at which point, extreme delirium settles in and I forget where I am.

I most certainly wont be in the threads tomorrow, but I'm sure I'll have a lot to say on Sunday or Monday.

Good luck to the US too, for good measure. But, mostly:





VAMOS PARA LA TERCER ESTRELLITA!

#34 SeoulSoxFan


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Posted 12 June 2010 - 08:52 AM

QUOTE (Apostle™ @ May 24 2010, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not unless they throw elbows and cheat the way they did in 2002. How about they have Moreno officiate these matches as well, maybe then they'll advance. Honestly there's no reason they should have advanced in 2002 and there's even greater doubt they'll advance in 2010. Greece and Argentina advance to the knock out round. Book it!



Ha - good call Apostle. Hester zipped Chungyoung of a clear PK and Korea still won 2-nil. 1-1-1 in last WC (beat Ghana, tied France) and now first 3 points of this year's WC all without Moreno.

2002 gave a lot of Korean footballers a chance to play in Europe and other pro leagues and it showed today. Best touch I've ever seen on a Korean squad, and not just Jisung either.

The Reds are advancing in 2010. Book it!

Edited by SeoulSoxFan, 12 June 2010 - 09:03 AM.


#35 SeoulSoxFan


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Posted 12 June 2010 - 09:01 AM

QUOTE (Nick Kaufman @ Jun 2 2010, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zonal Marking has some good stuff on all teams, but I think it explains Rehaggel better than anyone I know. Rehaggel is being savaged for the unattractive football he plays and the unorthodox formations he puts, but as it turns out, the 3-4-3 (5-2-3 really) might actually be at the avant-guarde of football tactics, while making a virtue of the team's lack of depth in the midfield position.


I thought it was very odd taking out Karagounis at the half. What happened?


You gotta think Greece just had an off-day. As much as Korea dominated the match, our squad is really not this good. Too young, too short.

First half was all about our midfielders Youngpyo and Duri pushing right up the middle and have a clear path countering. The Greek mids seemed a step slow on every ball.

Also surprised - and relieved that Greece could not take more advantage of the huge corner advantage. Koreans give at least 2-3" height at every position. All the kicks were tight and low, allowing our vertically challenged defenders to have a chance at clearing them out.


#36 cannonball 1729

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 04:56 PM

QUOTE (SeoulSoxFan @ Jun 12 2010, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought it was very odd taking out Karagounis at the half. What happened?


You gotta think Greece just had an off-day. As much as Korea dominated the match, our squad is really not this good. Too young, too short.

First half was all about our midfielders Youngpyo and Duri pushing right up the middle and have a clear path countering. The Greek mids seemed a step slow on every ball.

Also surprised - and relieved that Greece could not take more advantage of the huge corner advantage. Koreans give at least 2-3" height at every position. All the kicks were tight and low, allowing our vertically challenged defenders to have a chance at clearing them out.

FWIW, Nate Silver's got Korea as the #26 team in the world and Greece as #41.

His rankings are here and his explanation is here.

#37 Zososoxfan

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 10:50 PM

I was going to write about the Argentina game earlier, but I was in a car accident because of a re-re cab driver on Saturday, so I've been taking in the World Cup on Oxycodone all week...which hasn't been all bad.

Anyways, I'll start by saying for the first game of the WC, getting 3 points is getting 3 points. Since the game was awhile ago, I'll keep my observations short:

1) Jonas Gutierrez is very valuable to this team - he's an absolute workhorse. When Burdisso came in late in the 2nd half, he pushed up to midfield (which may or may not be a more natural position for him) and that may be a potential lineup wrinkle.

2) Di Maria was atrocious. No really. Disaster. Did nothing.

3) Veron was atrocious. No really. Disaster. Couldn't complete easy passes.

4) Wouldn't be surprised to see Milito take over for Higuain up top. It's not fair to say Higuain shouldn't get to see the field again, but he didn't come to play.

5) Nigeria is a bad team, but their keeper was tremendous. A better squad probably would've gotten a better result against this Albiceleste squad.

I expect Argentina to come out much better against Korea. However, they're clearly the 2nd most talented squad in the group.

#38 Morgan's Magic Snowplow


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Posted 17 June 2010 - 05:24 PM

QUOTE (Zososoxfan @ Jun 15 2010, 11:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was going to write about the Argentina game earlier, but I was in a car accident because of a re-re cab driver on Saturday, so I've been taking in the World Cup on Oxycodone all week...which hasn't been all bad.

Anyways, I'll start by saying for the first game of the WC, getting 3 points is getting 3 points. Since the game was awhile ago, I'll keep my observations short:

1) Jonas Gutierrez is very valuable to this team - he's an absolute workhorse. When Burdisso came in late in the 2nd half, he pushed up to midfield (which may or may not be a more natural position for him) and that may be a potential lineup wrinkle.

2) Di Maria was atrocious. No really. Disaster. Did nothing.

3) Veron was atrocious. No really. Disaster. Couldn't complete easy passes.

4) Wouldn't be surprised to see Milito take over for Higuain up top. It's not fair to say Higuain shouldn't get to see the field again, but he didn't come to play.

5) Nigeria is a bad team, but their keeper was tremendous. A better squad probably would've gotten a better result against this Albiceleste squad.

I expect Argentina to come out much better against Korea. However, they're clearly the 2nd most talented squad in the group.


I don't disagree with much that you said (other than the 2nd most talented squad thing), but one game certainly can change a lot. Di Maria added a lot to the attack against Korea and I doubt Higuain is too worried about being supplanted by Milito anymore. It will be interesting to see what happens with Veron going forward. My guess is that Maradona was just resting him today, but his performance was pretty weak as you note.

I still think this team is a bit shaky in the back, but the tournament is unfolding very well for them right now. The attackers seem to have developed some real chemistry, with Messi stirring the drink. And while its obviously too early to know, there is a pretty decent chance that Argentina is going to have a path to the finals involving Mexico or Uruguay in the round of 16, Germany in the quarters, and then Italy or a surprise team like Ivory Coast or Portugal in the semis. None of the seeded teams seem particularly likely at his point to migrate to this side of the bracket and Spain (and maybe even Italy) seems likely to move to the other side.

Edited by Morgan's Magic Snowplow, 17 June 2010 - 05:28 PM.


#39 Zososoxfan

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 05:50 PM

After a satisfying win with a 4-1 scoreline that makes it seem more lopsided than the match really was, some analysis:

Higuain - has some Inzaghi genes, was in the right place at the right time on the 3rd goal. The 2nd goal was really really nice, even though the keeper should have done better. The last goal was clearly the prettiest, and it wasn't an easy header to finish. I think you could still make the argument that Milito is more talented and I'd love to see him get some serious minutes in the last group game, but Gonzalo's spot is clearly well-earned and safe.

Tevez - also a workrate player. he's an absolute pest and his value cannot be understated. Made life hell for Korea's defense all day. Fits well into this team's style and gives them some serious toughness that otherwise, would be lacking.

Messi - I felt he looked more natural in a floating CAM role today. It looks to me that Argentina is playing a 4-1-3-2 formation, with Gutierrez pushing way up and letting Messi do whatever he wants. Results look good so far. Created space for other players.

Maxi - Didn't do too much on offense and didn't see him defend much. I really like his services into the box, but against better teams will need more from him.

Di Maria - pretty much the exact same thing as Maxi. Doesn't track back and didn't hear his name much. Not an issue in a game like this, but later on, he will need to play better.

Mascherano - Is just an absolute beast. He allows Argentina to play with only 5 back at all times and is the motor of this team's offense.

Gutierrez - love the workrate again. A lot of players looked gassed, presumably because of playing at altitude, but the dude does. not. stop. He gives Argentina a huge advantage because he never gets caught upfield and allows the to attack with 6!!!!!!

Heinze - hasn't been exposed yet, but he is weak on an island. The defense's organization has been a positive revelation and I think Mascherano shades over to his half of the field, for good reason.

Burdisso - has handled himself very well early on. I've been very impressed with his play.

Demichelis - between this gaffe and his performance in the UCL final, color me concerned.

Romero - Argentina goalie = bored. The goal wasn't his fault.

Subs/Injuries

Aguero - looked very sharp and motivated in his limited time. If Di Maria continues his suck, I would consider putting him in just to get more quality on the field.

Samuel -had been playing well and settled the backline nicely. Having Burdisso made his loss easier, but throughout the tournament, any team could use 3 solid CBs. Anyone have updates?

Bolatti - no comment, limited minutes.

Questions/Concerns/Thoughts

Set pieces - holy hell, who is drawing up Argentina's set pieces??? This guy is brilliant. Argentina has looked super dangerous on corners and free kicks and someone deserves serious kudos. Is it Maradona? I doubt it.

Maradona - great job again. It's hysterical to watch him on the sideline. When he kicked the ball up and debated juggling, it was the high point in my day. I like the subs again and I hope he goes into the bench for this 3rd match to try some other setups. Milito and Aguero have earned some minutes and I'd like to see what Otamendi and others have to offer.

Veron - though the team looked faster and sharper with him out. I feel he plays more of a holding midfield role, or perhaps somewhere between a DMF and CAM role. But, this team's offense thrives on interchanges and speed and Veron doesn't provide either.

Non-squad players - Veron's injury and Heinze's vulnerability show that leaving Cambiasso and Zanetti's omissions might be mistakes. I hope we don't find out.

All in all, great shape for the Albiceleste and the goal for game 3 should be to get a lot of players time and keeping everyone healthy.

Tercer Estrella!!

Edited by Zososoxfan, 17 June 2010 - 05:55 PM.


#40 Zososoxfan

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 06:39 PM

Argentina analysis for the game against Greece will (edit: not) be quick:

Romero - looks confident in net, came out for a couple crosses lower than I would like, but that's picking nits.

C. Rodriguez - I want to like him, but didn't look comfortable back there. Defended decently, but showed little on offense. I'd still pick him ahead of Otamendi. SHIT.

Burdisso - Replaced Samuel admirably. He's a solid defender and I would personally start him over...

Demichelis - Raises my heartrate anytime he shows up on screen defending or in possession of the ball. I know he scored the goal, but he also came very close to giving one away to the Greeks. He can thank Burdisso for good cover. Definitely the weakest link on the team. Despite the goal, still earned a S-H, which is saying something.

Otamendi - Didn't do very much and he was sorely needed to be creative with all the Greeks behind the ball. SHIT.

Veron - Deep breath...this guy is just killing Argentina when he plays. He rendered Bolatti useless by killing space. He's slow. He is a black hole of space on the pitch. He can't defend that well. His passing accuracy is flat out embarrassing. He's terrible for this team. I can't express how much I dislike his style. Almost as much as I disliked Riquelme's last time around. Almost. COMPLETE, UTTER, SMELLY SHIT.

Bolatti - Hard to gauge his performance because Veron was an absolute shit show. Thought he defended well enough, but didn't show a lot on offense. Then again, with the Greeks parking the bus, it was more difficult than usual. S-H, but no I-T.

M. Rodriguez - Again, I understand that Greece had 9 behind the ball at all times, but the 'Argentine flair' wasn't there today and Maxi didn't help. Playing with Veron must suck. S-H-I, no T.

Kun Aguero - And today is a perfect example of why Mr. Tevez starts over you. He's talented and against a more open defense, he would do a lot better, but there's no question in my mind that Tevez should start over him. Again, I get that Greece was playing defensively, but he did nothing to help solve the riddle. SHIT.

Milito - Heretofore known as Stallonito. I know he's a quality player and had to deal with playing with 10 men (Veron is a negative), but for a world class striker who's used to dealing with heavy defending in Serie A, he had to do better. His case to supplant Higuain fell woefully short. S-H-I, no T.

Messi - Has a ton of as we say in Argentina, bad milk ("mala leche"). In case you didn't get that, it's bad fucking luck. He had to come waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far down the pitch to receive the ball. And to me, this is indicative of him putting pressure on himself. The right thing to do this game would have been to attack the flanks mercilessly to open up the defense. Today, that would've been Messi and Aguero very wide, with Maxi and another wide midfielder making the runs in. Now, a lot of the blame falls on Veron for blowing giant nuts, and not being able to fill in the gaps because he's slower than a fat dude on one leg, but I still feel that strategy would've worked wonders today. Played badly enough to earn some letters, but I would never dare.

Subs

Di Maria - Still not playing well. Completely underwhelmed by his performances so far. In a perfect world, Argentina has another fullback opposite Heinze, so Jonas Gutierrez could play opposite Maxi, but alas, tis not the case and Jonas is needed in the back as evidenced by the shitty performances by Otamendi and C. Rodriguez. He has a lot of skill on the ball, but can't put it to use. I think he's just a bit young this time around and should be replaced in the top XI, but Maradona sees his tantalizing dribbling and likely wants to keep him on the pitch. When he eventually torches 3 defenders and scores a screamer, I will gladly eat crow. SHIT.

Palermo - Dude has a fucking rabbit's foot firmly implanted in his ass. He should pay Messi for his goal, but the guy has always been lucky and Maradona considers him manifested rosary beads. I hope we've seen the last of him.

Pastore - Saved my favorite for last. This guy is a baller. As soon as he stepped on the pitch, he settled the midfield and play loosened. You could argue that Greece was getting tired, but that's bullshit to me. My guess is that Renhaagel's strategy was to defend until minute ~70-75, then attack for the remaining time. It's possible/probable that the 1st goal came right after Pastore joined the foray, but I think the pressure really increased as soon as he joined. His linking play was outstanding in his limited time and I can't wait to see what this kid can do.

My starting XI for Mexico would be, in a 4-1-3-2 alignment:


Romero

Jonas-Samuel/Demichelis-Burdisso-Heinze

Mascherano

Pastore-Messi-Maxi

Higuain-Tevez

Subbing Di Maria for Pastore is definitely going to happen and Demichelis will start over Burdisso if Samuel can go, but the most important thing for Argentina is that Veron never see the field. Ever. Again.

Lastly, if Mexico decides to be giant pussies and defend with 8 or more behind the ball, I think you modify the front 5 as follows to spread the D out more:

Pastore-Maxi

Tevez-Higuain-Messi


Por favor, a dios, quiero otro:

Maxi Rodriguez contra Mexico

Edit: I can't figure out better formatting style for the formations, so I changed it slightly to make it as clear as possible.

Edited by Zososoxfan, 22 June 2010 - 09:34 PM.


#41 Nick Kaufman


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Posted 22 June 2010 - 08:03 PM

Argentina was as far as I am concerned the best team Greece has ever faced, while Messi has proven once more in a game which otherwise will not leave any mark in the public imagination, that he's one of the most special players we ever seen. I thought Greece played almost as well as a defense could play, while Rehaggel put a player with the mission of man-marking Messi throughout the game; and still Messi grinded it out and hit a post, while creating the second goal.

Argentina's first goal might have been an offensive foul, perhaps Gekas or Salpiggidis would have been better choices as counter-attacking threats, Ninis, the supposed hope of Greek football, played like absolute shyte, we were a tad unlucky with a couple of injuries which didn't allow us to put more offensive players later, but still, we can't really complain. Dislike all you want the negative football we played, but it was the most realistic strategy of getting a result and it almost worked for 78 minutes. I also thought it was more realistic to go for the draw hoping for a Nigeria win, than go for the win with the Argentinians able to pick us apart in the counter.

Having experienced the indignity of 94, not a bad showing, pity we couldn't do more against Korea.