2857 replies to this topic

[Marciano490]

Interesting profile on Olympic heavyweight Michael Hunter. Has anyone seen him in action?

http://www.salon.com...avyweight_hope/

[BGrif21125]

The HBO BAD telecast from Saturday was a trainwreck from beginning to end.

Lampley getting pissy with his production crew... endless apologizing for Broner's unprofessionalism... a club-level undercard fight... Broner advocating for a convicted woman-beater to be freed... Roy Jones refusing to do his job.

I miss the old days of Boxing After Dark.

[Marciano490]

Anybody catch Ward-Dawson last night? I was shocked at how fragile Dawson's chin was. Most of the punches that put him down were broad arm punches, and Ward doesn't have that much power with his feet set.

[shawnrbu]

Is Ward #2 pound for pound right now?

[ElUno20]

I would rate Ward higher than Mayweather or Manny. He's not a boxing God blessed with the talent and the IQ (May) or a once in a lifetime freak of nature (Manny) but look at his resume. Just look at it. No one comes close to that in the last 3-4 years. And take into context when he fought those guys. He doesn't jump out at you like the other two but I can't get around his resume.


It probably shouldn't be a PPV but I would say the Sergio/Chavez 24/7s are the most entertaining 24/7s of the entire series. They are a perfect balance to each other. Sergio is professional and calculated but peculiar enough to be really interesting and Chavez. This guy needs his own show. He doesn't know it but he's hilarious.

[Marciano490]

Is Ward #2 pound for pound right now?

Who are you displacing, Pacquiao? I don't know if I'd go that far yet, and you still have to account for Martinez - pending next week - and Donaire.

I don't know why it took me till now, but I just heard about Paul Williams' accident. What a shame; his fight with Margarito was one of my favorites of the last 15 years.

[BGrif21125]

I thought Ward looked great. He comes to the ring prepared, he seems willing to fight anyone, and he appears to be a no-frills, no entourage, no BS old-school fighter. He's good for the sport.

That being said, I think the PFP discussion still begins and ends with Mayweather and Pacquiao, with Ward and Marquez at the top of the heap of the 2nd tier, ahead of guys like Martinez and Donaire.

Dawson plateaued a while ago (after his war with Glen Johnson in their first fight) and has been regressing ever since. His loss to Pascal was one of the most garbage performances I've ever seen by an undefeated champion, and I thought his recent win over Hopkins was primarily due to Hopkins FINALLY looking his age. I thought Ward-Dawson would be more competitive than it was, but it didn't shock me to see Dawson take a beating and then eventually quit (and fwiw, I don't blame Dawson for quitting. I have more respect for a guy who says "I'm done" in the midst of a beating and then makes no excuses, over a guy who runs and hides for 12 rounds and then blames his toe or the ref or his prefight meal or whatever...) I don't think Dawson will be holding onto the top spot at 175 for long if he faces anyone legit.

DeMarco-Molina was a bummer. I thought that had a chance to be a real good undercard action fight.

Edited by BGrif21125, 10 September 2012 - 10:22 AM.

[Marciano490]

Were you surprised, though, at the punches that put him down? I'm sure I saw him take harder hits from Johnson and even Pascal. Ward has never seemed like a big puncher to me, and those hooks were all arm.

Who would you like to see Ward fight next? It looks like he's 'soft' enough to drop a weight class - might be better action for him there.

[BGrif21125]

Pacquiao-Marquez IV on December 8 in Vegas.

I'm not crazy about it, but it's a much better fight than the other reported options (rematches against Cotto or Bradley).

[CrouchingTonyHiddenPena]

Pacquiao-Marquez IV on December 8 in Vegas.

I'm not crazy about it, but it's a much better fight than the other reported options (rematches against Cotto or Bradley).

While I agree on the quality of the fight, they are now teetering on the brink of parody. Not sure I'm even excited about it in the least, to be honest.

[ElUno20]

just read Pwill is in great shape and doctors give him an outside shot at walking again. that gave me goosebumps.


Also.........

Edited by ElUno20, 14 September 2012 - 12:09 AM.

[BGrif21125]

Some pretty good fights this weekend. I caught the "free" Showtime card and then watched some (first 5 rounds + Round 12) of Martinez-Chavez the next day on youtube.

Santa Cruz looked really good against Morel and just killed him to the body. Maidana-Soto Karass was a fun brawl while it lasted. That was a prefect undercard-type matchup.

Thank god Sergio held on at the end, I'm not sure I was ready to live in a world where the middleweight champ barely trains and wins strictly because he outweighs his opponent by a ton.

In addition to the whole "dueling cards" ridiculousness, the more I think about it, Martinez-Chavez is the type of fight that really should have been on HBO WCB instead of PPV. Put that fight on regular HBO and I bet it would have done a very good rating, certainly better than whatever Ward-Dawson pulled.

PS. I also thought Malignaggi was VERY good on Showtime as a ringside commentator.

Edited by BGrif21125, 17 September 2012 - 08:57 AM.

[Montana Fan]

BGrif, who do you think Alvarez will fight next?

[BGrif21125]

BGrif, who do you think Alvarez will fight next?

There seems to be a lot of talk of Canelo-Cotto, which I like a lot, but Cotto is fighting in December, so I assume he wouldn't want to fight again until at least May 2013. And I assume that fight only happens if Cotto wins in December but doesn't look TOO good doing so.

In the meantime, I could see Canelo fighting the Berto-Bundrage winner, or maybe the Kirkland fight finally happens. The only opponent I think Golden Boy will blatantly avoid is Lara.

[Montana Fan]

I see that he beat Cotto's brother. The real Cotto would be a good fight.

[OilCanShotTupac]

http://www.nytimes.c...im.html?_r=1

Great article in the New York Times today about the Mancini-Kim fight, 30 years after.

Geez, that makes me feel old. I watched that fight as it happened (guess i would have been 13). As the fight progressed, it was one of the most riveting things I had ever seen.

Unfortunately, I think that Kim's death may have been one of the catalysts in boxing's decline.

[Sille Skrub]

Pacquiao says he'll take a 45-55 split to fight Mayweather.

Time to stop running, Floyd.

[Duende Roomer]

There"s a wild one on HBO right now. Alvarado-Rios. Punch-fest.

[shawnrbu]

Steve Smoger does not stop that fight.

[BGrif21125]

There"s a wild one on HBO right now. Alvarado-Rios. Punch-fest.

Great fight. One of those rare occasions when a fight gets a ton of advanced hype, and yet manages to exceed the hype.

Rios is the closest thing to Gatti that we have right now. And Alvarado may have lost, but everyone's still going to want to see his next fight. Both guys won in the end.

Sometimes making good fights is so simple: take 2 young evenly-matched guys in their prime with fan-friendly styles, match them up against each other, and put the fight in a good venue where the fighter's fanbases can show up. And let the fighters take it from there.... if only things always worked that way.

[ElUno20]

Rios test your will and heart. Nothing more pure than that in boxing.

Donaire needs to stop ducking rigo or move up. Tired of seeing him fight overmatched opponents

[allaboutthesox]

Just thought I would pass along this tidbit. Emanuel Steward, dead at age 68. I didn't realize he was that ill or I just wasn't paying attention. None the less, sad day for boxing.

EDIT:

Friends are reporting that he has passed, but the family has yet to confirm. However, it was mentioned that Klitchko posted it on his twitter account.

Edited by allaboutthesox, 25 October 2012 - 11:31 AM.

[ElUno20]

Very sad to hear this today. Crushing news to the boxing world. Everyone knew he was really ill, though he chose not to make it public, but this still cuts sharp. Rest in peace, Manny.

[IHateDaveKerpen]

...tell me someone else saw that.

What a fucking counter by JMM. I had given him the slightest of edges before the fight, but I didn't expect him to win on a shot like that.

[Jed Zeppelin]

I love these post-fight interviews.

"Manny, I assume you haven't yet seen the video of yourself getting knocked the fuck out. Here it is. Tell me about it."

edit: I look forward to the photos of the Romneys in the background of the KO. Mitt with raw unfiltered emotion!!

Edited by Jed Zeppelin, 09 December 2012 - 01:05 AM.

[SoxScout]

heres the video

http://www.dailymoti...rt#.UMQoCeT8Jmo

[FelixMantilla]

Wow, Manny walked right into that punch. What a great fighter, but I guess it's about over now, right?

[Marciano490]

That was about the most perfect punch you'll ever see. I was trying to come up with a one-punch KO as iconic as JMM's will likely prove to be, and the only thing I could think of was Marciano-Jersey Joe.

[Stu Nahan]

Guess we can put to bed the whole best pound for pound he would beat Mayweather thing, right?

[ManilaSoxFAN]

After all the fights wherein Freddie Roach had Manny improving his right and his footwork, he went back to his old all-lefty all-power style. In both knockdowns, Marquez stepped with his left foot outside and way past Manny's right foot -- the standard way of knocking down/out a southpaw with a straight right. Manny was turning to his left the whole time...not a good idea.

Well, Manny was more boring, some think, after he started becoming more of a "complete" fighter. I guess returning to his old style IS more exciting...just that it was more exciting for the Mexican fans, as it turns out.

Marquez is now too smart for anyone who fights in a predictable, one-dimensional style.

This country stops for Pacquiao's fights...then erupts after the victory. Right now, I can't even hear a car horn beep.

[Marciano490]

Guess we can put to bed the whole best pound for pound he would beat Mayweather thing, right?

Those are two different questions, right? Pound for pound would have to go to PBF now, but I'd still say Manny would have a 30-40% shot at beating Mayweather. Remember, styles make fights; after Foreman crushed Frazier and Ali dominated Foreman, would you have written off Frazier's chances against Ali? Would Dempsey have knocked Jack Johnson down a dozen times if they'd fought?

[SoxFanInPdx]

What a shot...was hoping someone would come along, challenge Mayweather and beat him since I can't stand him. Now it appears that won't happen now. Damn.

[SumnerH]

Those are two different questions, right? Pound for pound would have to go to PBF now, but I'd still say Manny would have a 30-40% shot at beating Mayweather. Remember, styles make fights; after Foreman crushed Frazier and Ali dominated Foreman, would you have written off Frazier's chances against Ali? Would Dempsey have knocked Jack Johnson down a dozen times if they'd fought?

More to the point, one punch like this shouldn't change your evaluation of fighters dramatically. It means something, but it's easy to overestimate it especially in the immediate afterglow.

[Marciano490]

More to the point, one punch like this shouldn't change your evaluation of fighters dramatically. It means something, but it's easy to overestimate it especially in the immediate afterglow.

True; getting caught once in 50+ rounds by a HoF caliber fighter shouldn't mean much, but that's kind of the nature of sports, no? Getting knocked out in a championship fight is like missing a game winning 18 footer, or 9th inning hanging curve. It ultimately shouldn't mean much when weighed against an entire career's legacy - and every great but Rocky lost at least one fight - but, shit, it strips any aura of invincibility when you go down like that. That said, JMM hits harder than PBF, though if Manny's susceptible to straight counterpunches, well that's Floyd's thing, no?

[soxhop411]

I love these post-fight interviews.

"Manny, I assume you haven't yet seen the video of yourself getting knocked the fuck out. Here it is. Tell me about it."

edit: I look forward to the photos of the Romneys in the background of the KO. Mitt with raw unfiltered emotion!!

[BGrif21125]

More to the point, one punch like this shouldn't change your evaluation of fighters dramatically. It means something, but it's easy to overestimate it especially in the immediate afterglow.

If you fight long enough and face enough elite opponents, at some point you're going to get hit with a perfect punch and get knocked out cold.

The only downside of this great fight is that some people will make the ridiculous argument that this makes it OK that the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight never happened.

What a great win for Marquez. A HOF fighter who's always been stuck in the shadows for one reason or another.

[Marciano490]

If you fight long enough and face enough elite opponents, at some point you're going to get hit with a perfect punch and get knocked out cold.

The only downside of this great fight is that some people will make the ridiculous argument that this makes it OK that the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight never happened.

What a great win for Marquez. A HOF fighter who's always been stuck in the shadows for one reason or another.

I think you could make a credible argument that it means less that Pacquiao lost on a freak knockout to JMM than that Floyd ended up getting caught against the ropes again and again by a plodding and beat-to-hell Cotto, who I respect the Hell out of, but who doesn't belong in a conversation with the other 3.

[SeoulSoxFan]

I think you could make a credible argument that it means less that Pacquiao lost on a freak knockout to JMM than that Floyd ended up getting caught against the ropes again and again by a plodding and beat-to-hell Cotto, who I respect the Hell out of, but who doesn't belong in a conversation with the other 3.

Agree here. Roach & Manny both say he never saw the punch coming. I thought Pacman really was ready to put on the burners and get a convincing win.

I have to give all the credit to JMM though - he put together the perfect counter. Perfect timing, and not sure if I could call it a 'freak' KO.



A side note. I saw the fight live in a huge sports bar in Austin with my wife, and the place was absolutely packed with JMM supporters (as you can imagine, there are a few Mexican folks here and there around these parts).

As much as I was shocked and saddened by the loss, the atmosphere was electric. From the time they stepped onto the area, people were singing along to the crowd singing, Lots of oohs and aaaahs as both fighters went at it from round 1.

I say boxing is alive and well from what I saw tonight, and I think Manny's retirement is way, way too premature. I'd actually love to see fight number 5 - these guys are lifelong rivals that won't duck each other, and give 110% in the ring every single round.

PBF can keep his undefeated claim and the titles. I'd rather see one more JMM v MP fight before both call it quits.

[Marciano490]

I didn't meant to downplay JMM's accomplishment by calling it a freak knockout; just that you almost never see elite fighters knocked out with a single punch that they don't see coming, especially at the end of a round.

The only issue with the 5th fight is JMM aging out. Manny's going to need some time off after taking two hard knockdowns, including a brutal knockout during which he appeared to be unconscious. By the time he's even ready to go again, assuming he doesn't take a tune up, JMM will be 40. And, while he looked great tonight, fighters can get old overnight, and it's entirely possible JMM will want to go out on top, rather than risk getting in with an all-time great one more time on the night he finds out he's lost a step.

[ElUno20]

That wasn't a freak ko. That's the problem with manny and what's hes brought to the sport. That's what I've been waiting for 6 years for someone with a boxing iq to catch him coming in as usual wide open and out control and end his career. He's always been a terrible boxer which is why you could see the cringe in Marquez every time he spoke about two losses to such a clown.

Btw. If you dont follow boxing, this type of ko ends your career. You'll fight again but you're never the same.


Thank you, Marquez. Nobody in sports deserved that more. I knew for sure it'd be Floyd but you deserved it.

[jose melendez]

This was the rare big time fight I saw live. I have a new friend who's half Filipina.

Man was it fun to watch.

[SeoulSoxFan]

He's always been a terrible boxer which is why you could see the cringe in Marquez every time he spoke about two losses to such a clown.
Thank you, Marquez. Nobody in sports deserved that more. I knew for sure it'd be Floyd but you deserved it.

Clown? I was about to post "cue EU20 with the obligatory Pacman diss in 3..2.." and you timed that perfectly, like the JMM punch.

Problem is, no one knows if it would have been Floyd because he's still ducking Manny like a fat man at a Hunan buffet. You keep calling Manny a clown, I'll keep calling PBF a racist coward. I'll take the former, thank you very much.

[SeoulSoxFan]

That's the problem with manny and what's hes brought to the sport.

Just for shits and giggles... exactly what has he brought to the sport you say?

[drtooth]

Just watched the replay of the KO. Just right punch at the right time. Manny stepped in and Marquez just nailed him with a short right. No fighter was going to get up from that. The flushing sound from Vegas was the money being flushed away from what would have been the megafight of Manny and and Floyd.

[BGrif21125]

Just watched the replay of the KO. Just right punch at the right time. Manny stepped in and Marquez just nailed him with a short right. No fighter was going to get up from that.

Yep, there's a lot of talk this morning about how that KO punch was PED-fueled, but I don't buy it. Marquez has nailed Manny with plenty of flush right hands during their fights, but they were always from a distance, where Pacquiao had a split-second to brace for the impact. In this one case, he walked into the KO punch and never saw it coming. Hence the different result. (I mean, I absolutely believe both these guys are filled to the brim with PEDs, but that punch was about timing and placement moreso than power.)

The flushing sound from Vegas was the money being flushed away from what would have been the megafight of Manny and and Floyd.

That fight died long ago. Last night didn't flush away anything.

[thestardawg]

That wasn't a freak ko. That's the problem with manny and what's hes brought to the sport. That's what I've been waiting for 6 years for someone with a boxing iq to catch him coming in as usual wide open and out control and end his career. He's always been a terrible boxer which is why you could see the cringe in Marquez every time he spoke about two losses to such a clown.

Btw. If you dont follow boxing, this type of ko ends your career. You'll fight again but you're never the same.


Thank you, Marquez. Nobody in sports deserved that more. I knew for sure it'd be Floyd but you deserved it.

Yep.

Terrible boxer with wins over Barrera, Morales, De La Hoya, Cotto, Marquez, Hatton etc etc.

Enough with your bleating. You sound ridiculous. Your boy has ducked the "terrible boxer" for years, and still will even after this KO.

[Lanternjaw]

Tremendous fight last night between two of my all-time favorite fighters.

I thought Pacquiao won the first two rounds pretty easily. Marquez' overhand right in the 3rd round was a beaut, but Pacquiao wasn't really hurt from it and actually rallied in the last minute. Round 4 was pretty even despite Pac's jab knockdown of JMM and round 5 was all Pacquiao. As round 6 was wrapping up I thought to myself that it sucks that Marquez has finally gotten old. He was taking a beating. Pacquaio's aggressive combinations had JMM reeling... Then it happened. What a shot. One thing that hasn't been mentioned in any of the post fight articles or conversations that I've read was JMM's exceptional body work. Those hooks really seemed to slow/hurt Pacqiauo. Doubtful they had much to do with the outcome as Manny was really turning it on in rounds 5 and 6 but an investment was made by JMM that might've paid off late had the fight continued. Marquez is such a brilliant fighter. I wish these guys didn't have to age.

I'm ashamed to admit it but I wouldn't mind seeing a 5th bout.

I also wouldn't mind seeing JMM take on Brandon Rios in Mexico City!

As for most perfect punches? I've been a boxing fan for ages and the two greatest punches I've seen are Frazier's left hook to knock Ali on his ass in their first fight and Sergio Martinez' crushing left to Paul William's chin a couple years ago. JMM's shot would rank third. Everyone has seen the Frazier hook, but youtube the Martinez shot if you haven't seen it (and prayers for Paul Williams -- great fighter, great person with a long battle ahead of him).

[Marciano490]

Good picks, but Ali got up. Can it be a perfect punch if it didn't knock the opponent out?

[zeraza]

My friend said: "Man, that's now twice in the past two months that a rich religious man has been knocked out by Hispanics"

[BGrif21125]

Hearns knocking out Duran (one of boxing's all-time badasses) has to rank on any short list of perfect punches.

Go to ~7:29 of this video.