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Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread


3143 replies to this topic

#1 BGrif21125

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 11:00 PM

Oscar De La Hoya (37-4) vs. Ricardo Mayorga (28-5) at 154 lbs. this Saturday night. Interesting choice by DLH to fight someone as wild and unpredictable as Mayorga, considering that DLH could get PPV buys and a sold out arena against anyone. He should be able to handle Mayorga however, who has been completely outclassed by Corey Spinks, and was hit by about 10,000 power shots by Trinidad.
Mayorga signed a 2 million dollar deal, then said yesterday he wouldn't fight unless he got 8 million, then changed his mind the next day and is ready to go. Only in boxing.
If DLH wins, and Winky Wright beats Jermain Taylor next month, then I'd expect Oscar to seek out Wright, which would give him a chance to be a legitimate champion in his sixth weight class (130, 135, 140, 147, 154, 160), something that's never been done.
If Taylor wins, then expect Oscar to look down in weight, as Taylor is too big and athletic for DLH. Of course the one name that would bring the most $$$ and the most press is Mayweather. It'd be the best fighter in boxing vs. the biggest gate attraction in boxing, and the fact that Mayweather's estranged father trains Oscar would only add to the hype.

Any word on how the ticket sales for Hatton's fight at the Garden next Saturday have been? A good turnout could help Boston's chances for future high level fights, which would be a good thing. Boston would seem like a natural place for Hatton to base his U.S. fights, considering it's the shortest distance for his British fanbase to have to travel.

Edited by BGrif21125, 11 August 2006 - 10:35 PM.


#2 Sille Skrub

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Posted 06 May 2006 - 10:39 AM

I am surprised that DLH is still fighting. I thought he retired.

I haven't heard any promotion for that fight next week. Maybe I'll head down and check it out.

#3 PseuFighter


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Posted 06 May 2006 - 09:09 PM

i'm watching this online. looks like the undercard should be over in about ten minutes?

#4 PseuFighter


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Posted 06 May 2006 - 09:14 PM

actually, it looks like there's one more fight after this, so it's going to be awhile.

#5 BGrif21125

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Posted 06 May 2006 - 09:22 PM

actually, it looks like there's one more fight after this, so it's going to be awhile.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Main Event never starts before 11 PM eastern.

#6 PseuFighter


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Posted 06 May 2006 - 09:30 PM

i can only think of it happening on the east coast.

dare i ask what would happen if the undercard were to finish extremely early?

#7 PedroisGod

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Posted 06 May 2006 - 10:57 PM

Done. DLH TKO in the 6th.

#8 BGrif21125

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Posted 06 May 2006 - 10:58 PM

De La Hoya wins by 6th round TKO.

#9 PseuFighter


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Posted 06 May 2006 - 11:00 PM

glad i didn't spend money on that. what a technical joke.

#10 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 07 May 2006 - 02:51 AM

Mayorga did a lot of talking pre-fight. Even more than the usual trash. Brought Oscar's wife and kid into it. I enjoyed watching him get absolutely worked over, and I'm not really much of a De La Hoya fan.

#11 HomeRunBaker


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Posted 07 May 2006 - 10:28 AM

i can only think of it happening on the east coast.

dare i ask what would happen if the undercard were to finish extremely early?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am sure that the promoters took care of that. :)

#12 BGrif21125

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 04:13 PM

i can only think of it happening on the east coast.

dare i ask what would happen if the undercard were to finish extremely early?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They just have an extremely long gap between the last undercard fight and the main event. If they tell the main event fighters to be ready for 11 PM, they can't change that, since the fighters generally only show up 90 mins to 2 hrs before fight time, then get their hands wrapped, warm up, etc.
IIRC (and I was at a casino in Vegas watching it so my memory is a tad blurry), when Lewis and Tyson fought in '02, the undercard fights were all early round KO's, and there ended up being about an hour to kill before the main event.

EDIT: Good to see DLH perform well. He takes a lot of shit from other fighters for being the "Golden Boy" but his list of opponents is a who's who of boxing elite. Even though he's never been one of my favorite fighters, you have to respect him for consistently fighting the best of the best, unlike a lot of other guys.

Edited by BGrif21125, 07 May 2006 - 04:15 PM.


#13 BGrif21125

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Posted 13 May 2006 - 10:07 PM

Pretty good fight going on at the Garden right now.

If Hatton wants those mega paydays he needs to get rid of this guy.

#14 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 13 May 2006 - 10:23 PM

God, I can't believe I missed the first 9+ rounds of this fight. God dammit.

#15 DaveJstice

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Posted 13 May 2006 - 10:27 PM

Been a good fight. I've got Hatton up one, maybe two points and that's off his knock down in the 1st 10 seconds of the fight. Even fight so far, for the most part.

#16 Rocco Graziosa


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Posted 13 May 2006 - 10:28 PM

Decent fight but Hatton leads completely with his head, a style I find excruciating to watch and boarderline cheating. He's a flashier John Ruiz.

Edited by Rocco Graziosa, 13 May 2006 - 10:29 PM.


#17 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 13 May 2006 - 10:33 PM

Oh shit, Hatton's gone. How the hell did he stay on his feet?

#18 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 13 May 2006 - 10:38 PM

Hatton wins!

#19 BGrif21125

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Posted 13 May 2006 - 10:41 PM

Not surprised at all that Hatton gets the decision. Despite being the challenger, he was the "house" fighter, the guy the promotion was built around. It's a legit decision though, he did enough to win.
I know it's almost impossible to look good against a slick southpaw, but I expected more out of Hatton. He got hurt in the 12th by a guy with 12 KO's in 27 fights. After tonight, I'm not even convinced he could beat a 33 year old Gatti, let alone a world class opponent. Floyd Mayweather would eat this guy for breakfast.

Edited by BGrif21125, 13 May 2006 - 10:45 PM.


#20 Rocco Graziosa


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Posted 13 May 2006 - 10:41 PM

Great last round. I agree 100% with the decision.......a rareity.

#21 SpacemanzGerbil

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Posted 13 May 2006 - 10:59 PM

Hatton showed a hell of a chin there in the 12th but there is no way he'll be much of anything over here. As for fighting Mayweather, he should forget that right now. He'd get killed.

#22 BigA27

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Posted 13 May 2006 - 11:07 PM

I had it 115-112 for Hatton. I thought he outworked Collazo throughout most of the fight. He did get lucky with the flash knockdown he got in the first round. Timed that punch just right to get Collazo off balance.

Don't right Hatton off verse Mayweather just yet. Collazo was the naturally bigger man and was able to negate Hatton's usual roughouse style. Floyd is naturally smaller than Ricky and has had problems with rough pressure fighters. Jose Luis Castillo pressured and roughed up Floyd very well in the first fight and many people think he actually won it.

There was a reason Hatton's trainer, Billy Graham, did not want Hatton to fight Collazo. A naturally bigger southpaw with some slickness and decent power will give most people trouble.

All in all I though Ricky should never have left 140.

#23 Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 01:16 AM

I had it 115-112 for Hatton. I thought he outworked Collazo throughout most of the fight. He did get lucky with the flash knockdown he got in the first round. Timed that punch just right to get Collazo off balance.

Don't right Hatton off verse Mayweather just yet. Collazo was the naturally bigger man and was able to negate Hatton's usual roughouse style. Floyd is naturally smaller than Ricky and has had problems with rough pressure fighters. Jose Luis Castillo pressured and roughed up Floyd very well in the first fight and many people think he actually won it.

There was a reason Hatton's trainer, Billy Graham, did not want Hatton to fight Collazo. A naturally bigger southpaw with some slickness and decent power will give most people trouble.

All in all I though Ricky should never have left 140.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The Castillo fights were a long time ago. And Castillo is a much more complete fighter than Hatton. I do write off Hatton against Mayweather. It'd be one-sided. Anyway...

This was the biggest fight ito be held in Boston in many years and after watching it on HBO, I kind of wish I'd mustered the wherewithal to get myself up there to see it in person. Still, definitely a highly competitive fight for HBO, which tends to put its contract fighters (of which Hatton is now one) matchups that sometimes look good on paper but usually turn out to be pretty easy (see Mayewather-Judah as an example).

I gotta admit, I was pulling for Collazo in this one. I just like rooting for the underdog, for one thing, plus Hatton bugs me. He's a scrappy little fighter, but he's also very dirty -- a large part of his game in this fight was nothing but hitting while holding -- and considerably overrated. Good handspeed, incredible conditioning, good chin, but not a whole lot else. And that showed tonight. However, despite rooting for Collazo, I had it 114-113 on my scorecard for Hatton. In other words, had Hatton not scored the flash knockdown in the first round -- mainly the result of catching Collazo off balance -- I would have had it a draw. One judge agreed with my scorecard (as did HBO's "unofficial official" Harold Lederman), the other two had it 115-112 (7 rounds to 5, plus the kockdown) for Hatton.

Still, it could have easily gone the other way. ESPN.com had Collazo winning 115-113.

Hatton's spent a lot of time talking about how he wants the big fights, Mayweather, Cotto even De La Hoya. The best fight for him there would be Cotto. That would be an immensely entertaining war and I'd have to call that a pick 'em. But Collazo proved tonight that Mayweather would slice Hatton to ribbons and De La Hoya would likely do the same.

Hatton may have won the fight, but I think he was at least partially "exposed."

#24 BigA27

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 01:34 AM

Hatton and Castillo are both consumate infighters but of greatly different styles.

Castillo is much more refined than Hatton. He is more technically sound and throws shorter, sharper, snappier punches.
Hatton is much more a swarmer. His footwork usually has been quite good, as he closes the gap surprisingly quickly.

Hatton should not have gone up to Welterweight. As a junior Welter he lacks the strength advantage he had at 140 to maul, push, and otherwise impose himself on his opponent. Collazo was able to negate Hatton's typical style for portions of this fight by holding his own. Hatton also lacked the speed at closing the gap he has employed in the past. He was slower, weaker, and lacked the power that he had at 140. My guess is that he takes a look around at Welterweight and if he can't get a unification bout with Gatti, goes back down. Even at 147 I think he beats Gatti, whose defense makes Hatton's look tight and has shown previously to not take it to the body too well.

At 140 and in Manchester (he seems to feed off of the energy of his hometown crowd quite a bit) I think he can beat Floyd.

#25 Sille Skrub

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 08:48 AM

Wow, they will let anyone in SoSH (long 'o') these days. Have we jumped teh shark?

Welcome aboard, noob! Great to have you!

I heard that they were offering half price tickets to the fight last night. Can anyone confirm this? If I had known earlier, I might have headed down to the new Garden/Shawmut/Fleet/TD banknorthWhatever and taken advantage of that.

Edited by Sille Skrub, 14 May 2006 - 08:55 AM.


#26 Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 09:49 AM

I heard that they were offering half price tickets to the fight last night.  Can anyone confirm this?  If I had known earlier, I might have headed down to the new Garden/Shawmut/Fleet/TD banknorthWhatever and taken advantage of that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


What I read was that they offered half-off on the $150 seats to fans who showed a ticket to the rained out Red Sox game. They got 112 takers. The total attendance was a little over 6,200, which is realy not bad for a fight in the lighter weight classes, especially when there's no "hometown hero" involved. The Jose Antonio Rivera-Alejandro Terra Garcia fight last weekend in Worcester drew 4,800 despite Rivera's local popularity.

Anyway, regarding Hatton's future, this being boxing, the real question isn't how good he is, but is he perceived to be marketable after this fight. That and only that will determine if he can get the "big fights." HBO has a much bigger audience than Shwowtime, so most fans were seeing Hatton for the first time. How many of them come away from that fight saying, "I can't wait to see tha tguy fight again." Not too many, I'll bet. I had Hatton winning 114-113, but especially if this were the first time I'd seen Hatton, I wouldn't be excited about his next fight.

At this point, Hatton's best asset is probably his very likable out-of-the-ring personality, because many "casual" boxing fans will pay more attention to that than to Hatton's boxing abilities.

In fact, a lot of hardcore fans are taken in by his persona. I could never figure out why he won fighter of the year in 2005. The fact that Tszyu quit on his stool (though it was actually his trainer who stopped the fight) clouded the fact that the fight was pretty close to that point (105-104, 106-103 & 107-102 all for Hatton; decent lead but not a blowout. Two good rounds and a knockdown would have won the fight for Tszyu), and this was against a 35-year old guy coming off an injury who'd fought once in the previous 2 /12 years and for that matter, just three times since November of 2001 -- once per year. And in Hatton's home arena on top of all that.

After that, Hatton beat Carlos Maussa, a belt-holder, yes. But come on, Vivian Harris choking in his fight with Maussa is the best thing that ever happened to Hatton because Maussa was just a Columbian version of Mayorga. And in fact, Mayorga's better. Maussa didn't even really apply pressure to Hatton in that fight, as Mayorga would have. He just swung for the fences and hoped he connected. Still, it took Hatton nine rounds to get the guy out of there. No way he would have beaten Harris.

Last night just proved that Hatton's a tough cookie and a charismatic guy, but he's not an elite fighter. The question is, will toughness and charisma be enough to get him the big fights? His best move may be taking a rematch with Collazo, hoping to beat him more soundly to "erase" the memories of this one.

#27 BGrif21125

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 10:21 AM

His best move may be taking a rematch with Collazo, hoping to beat him more soundly to "erase" the memories of this one.

IMO, this is the worst move Hatton could make. As the fight went on, Collazo was more and more comfortable against Hatton, and was imposing his will. A rematch benefits Collazo more than Hatton.
Hatton should jump at the chance to get a big payday right now, and not risk being completely exposed in a lower level fight that doesn't make him any money, such as Collazo.
I think you'll see Hatton vs. Gatti next. Gatti could sell out Atlantic City fighting against me, so I'm sure Gatti-Hatton will reel in a substantial payday for both guys. Style-wise it would be an instant candidate for fight of the year. If Hatton wins, he'll probably get a shot vs. Mayweather whether he's ready or not, since it would be a unification bout at 147. I don't see why Floyd would ever agree to go overseas, but that fight could sell out a soccer stadium over in the UK.

Interesting month coming up with Barrera next week, Hopkins vs. Tarver June 10, and Wright-Taylor June 17, which is the highest profile fight in recent memory that won't be on PPV. Could be a dud style-wise, but a #2 PFP vs. Top 10 PFP fight is something you rarely see on regular HBO.

#28 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 14 May 2006 - 06:38 PM

I don't see why Floyd would ever agree to go overseas, but that fight could sell out a soccer stadium over in the UK.

There's been rumors of a super-event at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff, Wales for a year plus now. Calzaghe, Hatton, possibly Danny Williams (nothing special in the States, but British and Commonwealth heavyweight champion). Calzaghe is Welsh, Hatton is from Manchester, which is only a couple hours by car (closer than London).

If you got Mayweather and a top opponent for Calzaghe you could sell 70,000 tickets easily.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 14 May 2006 - 06:39 PM.


#29 BGrif21125

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 01:04 PM

Borges on Hatton
Good article today from Borges about Hatton and his future.

Hatton already saying he doesn't think he's a legit 147 pounder and admitting he was hurt several times by Callazo. In other words, he has no business challenging guys like Mayweather and De La Hoya. DLH never would've fought him anyway, fighting Hatton at this point does nothing for him, and Hatton would never fight him at 154. That was just hot air.
I think Hatton will still take a Gatti fight because of the money, but at this point I think that fight might even be a pick 'em as far as odds go. Gatti is still a dangerous puncher as long as he doesn't break his hand in the first few rounds.

If I had to predict the future fights for these guys right now, I think it's:
Hatton vs. Gatti, DLH vs. Trinidad (no way DLH retires after that good of a performance) and Mayweather vs. Margarito/Cotto. The only wild card is that if Trinidad balks at a DLH fight, and Wright beats Taylor, I think DLH would be tempted to fight for the middlewight title again.

Edited by BGrif21125, 15 May 2006 - 01:06 PM.


#30 Vinho Tinto

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Posted 15 May 2006 - 01:40 PM

If I had to predict the future fights for these guys right now, I think it's:
Hatton vs. Gatti, DLH vs. Trinidad (no way DLH retires after that good of a performance) and Mayweather vs. Margarito/Cotto. The only wild card is that if Trinidad balks at a DLH fight, and Wright beats Taylor, I think DLH would be tempted to fight for the middlewight title again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I hope the Hatton-Gatti matchup goes down. I've already seen what would happen in a Hatton-Mayweather fight by watching Floyd pummel Gatti.

DLH-Mayweather is the biggest draw, but I also would like to see him fight Felix.

#31 BGrif21125

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Posted 16 May 2006 - 11:06 AM

Roy Jones hasn't gotten the memo that it's time to retire. He's fighting someone named Prince Badi Ajamu in Boise of all places.
http://seattlepi.nws...jamu_Jones.html

And since this thread has focused on overrated British fighters and now a Prince, this would seem to fit perfectly here:
Naseem Hamed

#32 FredLynnsGlove

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 08:38 PM

Anyone know when they're going to re-broadcast the DLH fight? I'bve looked online and checked HBO a bunch of times but had no luck....

#33 BGrif21125

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Posted 17 May 2006 - 10:46 PM

Anyone know when they're going to re-broadcast the DLH fight? I'bve looked online and checked HBO a bunch of times but had no luck....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's available on HBO On Demand. Just select "Hatton vs. Callazo." The DLH fight is shown first.

EDIT: Also, I know the fight is up on youtube. There are lots of complete fights available on that site, both recent ones and classic ones from the 80's, 90's, etc.

Edited by BGrif21125, 17 May 2006 - 10:47 PM.


#34 FredLynnsGlove

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:09 PM

Thanks BGrif-

#35 BGrif21125

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 01:43 PM

Changed the thread title.
Just a heads up that HBO has another free fight tomorrow night. WBC Junior Lightweight (130 lbs.) champ Marco Antonio Barrera vs. Rocky Juarez. Should be an entertaining fight. If Barrera wins decisively, maybe it sets up a future rematch with Manny Pacquiao, who despite not holding any official titles is the real #1 guy at 130 lbs. right now.
Preview

EDIT: BTW, Barrera is about a 4-1 favorite right now. Not that anyone here gambles.

Edited by BGrif21125, 19 May 2006 - 01:48 PM.


#36 Rod Becks Mullet

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 03:00 PM

I've watched Juarez a few times (nothing too recent, however) and from what I remember he was a fun boxer to watch, strong and quick puncher. Could provide a good challenge to Barrera.

#37 Rocco Graziosa


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Posted 20 May 2006 - 11:43 AM

EDIT: BTW, Barrera is about a 4-1 favorite right now. Not that anyone here gambles.


I could never lay that type of wood. Is there any value in betting Juarez?

#38 BGrif21125

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 10:25 PM

I could never lay that type of wood.  Is there any value in betting Juarez?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just saw this post. Not a bad idea if you did decide to put any money on Juarez. He's a live underdog with power in both hands, and he just caught Barrera with a big left hook in Round 3. Competitive fight so far.

#39 Rocco Graziosa


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Posted 20 May 2006 - 11:16 PM

Fantastic fight. I really like both fighters. Barrera the consumate professional who, if he wasn't ready to go tonight would have lost, and Juarez, the hungry young fighter seeing this fight as his chance at a better life (why boxing is truely special....your watching dudes who if not for boxing would probably be encarcerated, apologies to Barrera). It was a pleasure to watch and renews my enthusiasm for the sweet science, sadly a sport in DIRE need of a spark after John Ruiz almost ruined the sport with the mainstream public. I would watch a rematch.

Edited by Rocco Graziosa, 20 May 2006 - 11:20 PM.


#40 BGrif21125

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 11:24 PM

Very entertaining fight. I thought Barrera would win a narrow decision, but the draw was certainly a legitimate ending.
Juarez did nothing but enhance his profile tonight. We will be hearing from him again in the future, even if Barrera doesn't want a rematch. I would love to see Juarez against either Morales or Pacquiao.

I assume MAB will try to get a rematch with Pacquiao first. It's the bigger fight money-wise, and it's a chance to avenge a defeat. A rematch between MAB-Juarez definitely favors Juarez, who will be more confident, while MAB will just be older.

#41 Rocco Graziosa


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Posted 20 May 2006 - 11:37 PM

Very entertaining fight. I thought Barrera would win a narrow decision, but the draw was certainly a legitimate ending.
Juarez did nothing but enhance his profile tonight. We will be hearing from him again in the future, even if Barrera doesn't want a rematch. I would love to see Juarez against either Morales or Pacquiao.

I assume MAB will try to get a rematch with Pacquiao first. It's the bigger fight money-wise, and it's a chance to avenge a defeat. A rematch between MAB-Juarez definitely favors Juarez, who will be more confident, while MAB will just be older.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Are we the only two dudes that watched this fight? Very very sad.

I'm a classic run of the mill boxing fan.......usually only the heavyweights and big fights. Some talk here of all the other weight classes and thats usually way over my head. But right now the heavyweight division is basically dead and now I have an open mind. I watched Winky Wright and saw someone who "boxed" so quickly (and efficiantly) that it was unwatchable, and quite frankly boring. Where is boxing headed? Am I going to live my whole life thinking that the Bowe Holifield fights (which were so good that after one I proclaimed "I paid too little for this fight.......these guys took a decade off their life tonight....someone pass the hat") were all there was to see in the sport? Tonights fight was great, but is there more on the horizon? Help a fringe fan here.

Edited by Rocco Graziosa, 20 May 2006 - 11:38 PM.


#42 BGrif21125

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 12:01 AM

Here's my take on the future of boxing:
Growing up, the only fights I ever cared about were the big heavyweight fights, such as Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, etc. The first non-heavyweight fight I really paid attention to was DLH-Trinidad in '99, which I believe is the highest-grossing non-heavyweight bout ever. Ended up being a dud stylistically, but a big fight nonetheless.
However, over the years, my focus has gone more and more to the lower weight classes, simply because that's where the talent is right now, and more importantly, that's where the talent will remain in the future. I'm a firm believer that the heavyweight division will never regain the luster it once had. It's pretty simple to explain. Back in the 70's, you had great American heavyweights like Ali, Frazier, Foreman, and Norton all fighting at the same time. Those great 200+ pound athletes are still around today, but they're in the NFL and the NBA, unionized sports that are relatively safer and less corrupt. Why get your head punched in and deal with corrupt promoters when you can play in the NFL or NBA?
If this were the sports climate of 50 years ago, Ray Lewis would be fighting for the heavyweight title, Michael Vick would be the best crusierweight, and Iverson would be fighting Mayweather for the welterweight crown. But that won't happen nowadays, the only elite athletes who will be boxers are the guys who are too small to play other sports. Look at Mayweather, he's one of the most phenomenal athletes in the world (a fact I wish more people would take notice of), but because he's under 6 feet and weighs 147 pounds, boxing is the only sport where he can be a star. Same thing for De La Hoya, Mosley, Vargas, Barrera, the list goes on and on.
That's the talent side, as for entertainment value, look at all the most entertaining fights of the last several years, and they're all from the lower weight classes. Barrera/Morales I, Gatti/Ward I, Hamed/Kelley, Castillo/Corrales I, Pacquiao/Morales I, Trinidad/Vargas...none of those fights were fought above 154 pounds.
The mainstream sports media pounds into your head that the heavyweights are the only fighters that matter, but it's a completely outdated view, the smaller fighters have more talent and provide more action.

#43 5050HindSight

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 02:13 AM

I just finished the fight on Tivo. Very solid and entertaining. And the draw was very fair in my opinion. I thought Berrera was slightly ahead...and that is one of the things I hate about boxing...someone can win the fight even if they lost the war, and I think that's what happened tonight. I mean, Juarez may be the younger fighter, and this has something to do with it, but after the fight, he looked like he could go another 12 rounds. Berrera looked like he would pass out any minute. Anyway, I thought that overall Berrera may have scored more, but Juarez inflicted more damage. So a draw is satisfying in this case.

Did you guys watch the undercard? HAHAHA good thing I had it on Tivo. I was out of the room for a few minutes, come back in, and not only had the fight started, but it was already over. Incredible. I'm guessing that is the last fight Nagy sees on this side of the Atlantic.


As for me...

Over the last 10 years or so I've gone through spurts as a HUGE boxing fan, and other spurts where I could care less. Right now, my interest is peaking again. There is a lot of talent out there in the middle and lower weight classes, and there are a lot of great fights scheduled for 2006. Should be an exciting year, glad I'll be watching.

#44 Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 09:44 AM

First, I have to give HBO credit. This is the second week in arow they've had an extremely competitive, exciting fight that nearly (and in both cases arguably should have) resulted in an upset.

I had this one 114-114, a draw. The later "correction" of the scorecards was pretty disgraceful. Probably an honest mistake, but no less an inexcusable one. Juarez deserved at least adraw in that fight. I gave him the 11th and 12th rounds, even though Barrera was somewhat more active, based on (as Harold Lederman likes to say) "clean, effective punching" and the fact that he was simply inflicting more damage. I mean, honestly, it's hard to give a guy a fight when his face looks like goulash and his opponent's is relatively clean. Barrera was never the same after Juarez smashed his nose in in the first round. He rarely engaged after that.

I hope Juarez gets some big fights out of this, he deserves it.

#45 5050HindSight

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 11:09 AM

The later "correction" of the scorecards was pretty disgraceful. Probably an honest mistake, but no less an inexcusable one. Juarez deserved at least adraw in that fight. I gave him the 11th and 12th rounds, even though Barrera was somewhat more active, based on (as Harold Lederman likes to say) "clean, effective punching" and the fact that he was simply inflicting more damage. I mean, honestly, it's hard to give a guy a fight when his face looks like goulash and his opponent's is relatively clean. Barrera was never the same after Juarez smashed his nose in in the first round. He rarely engaged after that.

I hope Juarez gets some big fights out of this, he deserves it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Wait, this is crazy! I didn't even know that this happened until just now. I shut off the fight as soon as the decision was announced, and then posted on here. I didn't watch any follow up at all.

A similar incident occured in 2000 in Castillo-Johnston II. Jose Luis Castillo had upset Stevie Johnston in their first bout, taking the WBC Lightweight Title (Ring Magazine called it the "upset of the year"). Three months later they fought a rematch, that was initially given to Johnston by majority decision. Later it was "discovered" that one of the judge's scorecards was added incorrectly, and the fight was changed to a draw.

Now, here is the CRAZY part...it was the same judge's scorecard changed BOTH times. Ken Morita was judge who's scorecard was changed in 2000, and Ken Morita was also the judge who's scorecard was changed last night. Either this guy has the worst handwriting of any boxing judge in the world, or something fishy is going on.

As George W. Bush might say... "Fool me once, shame, shame on you. Fool me twice...you're not going to fool me again."

#46 Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 12:02 PM

Now, here is the CRAZY part...it was the same judge's scorecard changed BOTH times. Ken Morita was judge who's scorecard was changed in 2000, and Ken Morita was also the judge who's scorecard was changed last night. Either this guy has the worst handwriting of any boxing judge in the world, or something fishy is going on.

As George W. Bush might say... "Fool me once, shame, shame on you. Fool me twice...you're not going to fool me again."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Good catch! I haven't heard or read anything where anyone mentions this apparent "coincidence." But I looked it up on BoxRec to verify your memory and -- right you are!

The only difference was that back then, Morita gave Johnston an extra point, which was then taken away. This time, he shorted Barrera a point, which was then added.

What's even weirder is that, last night, another judge, Duane Ford, also had an incorrect tabulation. He had shorted Juarez a point. It ultimatelt didn't matter because his initial scorecard had it 115-113 for Barrera so the extra point made it 115-114, with Juarez still losing.

#47 5050HindSight

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 12:45 PM

Speaking of boxrec.com, that site is awesome. They have a photo of the scorecard from last night...and the two changed scores certainly look doctored:

Posted Image

It appears that both changed scores had the 12th round 10-9 for Juarez, but both changed to 10-10. It is stuff like this that gives boxing a bad name.

Anyway, regardless of the judging shananigans (or honest mistake) it shouldn't be held against this great fight. I have to say this was one of the more active fights I have seen without a knockdown, and the 11th round was amazing. Both fighters deserved to win, which is why a draw was satisfying.

The good thing is Juarez will get another shot sooner rather than later. He made a name for himself last night as more than just a decent amateur with a spotty pro career. He held his own against the best opponent of his career, and should see more good fights in the future. The WBC owes him at least that much.

Edited by 5050HindSight, 21 May 2006 - 12:52 PM.


#48 Rocco Graziosa


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Posted 21 May 2006 - 01:00 PM

It appears that both changed scores had the 12th round 10-9 for Juarez, but both changed to 10-10. It is stuff like this that gives boxing a bad name.


Wait a minute. They changed the decision AFTER it was announced to the crowd? Holy crap thats insane.

#49 BGrif21125

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 02:13 PM

I'm wondering what the clauses were regarding a rematch in the event of a draw. If Juarez had won, there was a rematch clause that Barrera could exercise.
If there was a clause allowing either fighter to demand a rematch after a draw, that would supply enough of a motive for the WBC or Barrera's promoters to need a win as opposed to a draw, allowing Barrera to avoid a Juarez rematch and seek out a much more profitable fight with Manny Pacquiao.

While I'm sure Juarez would rather have a draw on his record instead of a loss, it's not that big of a deal for him. He did what he had to do and he was really the big winner regardless. He made a name for himself and I'm sure he will get another big fight in the future. The 130 pound division has more big names than just Barrera. If Barrera won't get in the ring again with him, I'm sure Morales or Pacquiao will at some point. Also, if Jaurez thinks he can handle a move up to 135 pounds, that division is loaded with talent and potential opponents.

#50 Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

  • 3189 posts

Posted 21 May 2006 - 04:50 PM

Speaking of boxrec.com, that site is awesome. They have a photo of the scorecard from last night...and the two changed scores certainly look doctored:

Posted Image

It appears that both changed scores had the 12th round 10-9 for Juarez, but both changed to 10-10. It is stuff like this that gives boxing a bad name.


The scorecard you see there is not the judges' scorecard. It's the state athletic commission's tabulation sheet. The judges themselves fill out a card after each round and hand it in. They never touch it again after that. So the apparent cross-outs on that card pictured on boxrec.com are the state commission official correcting his own read of the cards.

Now, how he misread a "10" as a "9" is another story altogether. As you said earlier, Ken Morita must have the worst handwriting of any boxing judge ever.

I really don't worry about this giving boxing a bad name or a "black eye." I just think fight fans and fight writers love to bitch about how fucked up the sport is. Which doesn't mean that it's not fucked up. It only means that things like this can get blown way out of proportion due to the sport's legitimate but exaggerated reputation for shadiness.

I mean, almost every week in the NFL brings some blown official's call that changes the course of a game -- even with instant replay. And no one talks about football getting a bad name or a black eye. Is someone going to tell me there's no corruption or shadiness in football? Come on.

Anyway...

The good thing is Juarez will get another shot sooner rather than later. He made a name for himself last night as more than just a decent amateur with a spotty pro career. He held his own against the best opponent of his career, and should see more good fights in the future. The WBC owes him at least that much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I totally agree that Juarez should get a rematch, but I don't think Barrera and his promoters, De La Hoya's Golden Boy -- will give him one. They'd be crazy to. As Emanuel Steward said last night, Juarez is only going to get better and Barrera, great as he is, has already been as good as he'll ever be. I think Juarez would pound the crap out of him in a rematch and I think Barrera and his team knows it.

And I wouldn't exactly call Juarez a "decent amateur with a spotty pro career." He won a silver medal at the 2000 Olympics and should have won a gold except for a referee who was later suspended for his actions in the gold medal bout. Before his Olympic "loss" he'd won 68 amateur fights in a row. As a pro, this was just his second loss, and it's arguable that he should have won this one, too. He's damn good fighter who almost certainly will hold a title or two in the near future. Barrera himself admitted that he knew this would be a tough fight and that Juarez is the real thing.




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