191 replies to this topic

[j44thor]

"They're the two clubs that don't try to pick up the pace," said West, chief of the umpiring crew that worked the three-game series in Boston. He was the home plate umpire Sunday. "They're two of the best teams in baseball. Why are they playing the slowest?

"It's pathetic and embarrassing. They take too long to play."

Joe West is God hear him roar

Does Joe West realize that the games probably wouldn't take 4 hours if the umpires had any consistency with the strike zone or if the strike zone was called the way it is supposed to be called?

I guess Angel Hernandez idea of speeding up the game is calling the baserunner out when in doubt.

I'm sure since this is an umpire saying these things the teams will take the high road but it will be interesting to see if they fire back through their talking heads.

Also love this tidbit, apparently Joe is not only an umpire but he is also a pitching coach of sorts.

West conceded that the Yankees and Red Sox often play high-scoring games and that both teams employ a strategic approach that involves hitters taking pitches. He also said pitchers attempt to be too fine.

"I understand it's strategy," West said. "I understand they're trying to set up the count and take so many pitches."

[Foulkey Reese]

Pathetic and embarrassing sounds about right when discussing an umpire who's so fat that he has a hard time getting into position to see plays at the plate. Considering how far down the toilet the quality of MLB umpiring has gone, I'm surprised that any of them have the balls to say something like this.

West said special emphasis has not been placed on speeding up games this season. But umpires are evaluated on how quickly the games move, he said.

But apparently not on the accuracy of their calls.

Edited by Foulkey Reese, 08 April 2010 - 09:27 AM.

[rembrat]

Becoming more and more evident that the Umpires need to get younger. OBP and replays are the future and most of these baseball officials are still clinging on to the 70's.

[mclusky]

Becoming more and more evident that the Umpires need to get younger. OBP and replays are the future and most of these baseball officials are still clinging on to the 70's.

I miss the days when Sandy Alderson and the MLB head office had their collective feet on these guys' throats.

[Soxfan in Fla]

Wow Joe West, you seriously just went there. Considering how awful a great majority of the umpires are now, especially in their strike zone interpretation and their general attitude the last words ANY umpire should ever be uttering about anything other than how lousy they themselves are as a group is "pathetic and embarrassing".

I think this is officially the one time I would love to see the bat shit crazy Randy Levine actually go off on someone publicly. Paging Randy Levine, now that you are done putting the Brewers GM in "his rightful place" I think you need to turn your attention to Fat Joe West. TIA.

[glennhoffmania]

I still don't understand this. If a game is played well, the fans find it interesting, but it takes 3:15 instead of 2:55, why is this a bad thing? Of all the things that MLB needs to fix, shaving a few minutes off of the game is like 40th on the priority list.

All of the other points are valid as well- the umpires cause problems by blowing calls, having inconsistent strike zones, and networks have increased commercials to maximize revenue. But the length of the game is the teams' fault?

[Rudy Pemberton]

The whole "speed up the game" edict...where is it coming from? Is there any real evidence that fans don't like this? Because if so, it's not showing up in attendance, TV ratings, etc. Frankly, I would think that longer games are better for business- you sell more ads, you sell more beer. I get that it's something people complain about, but I have a hard time imagining that stopping if the games are 15 minutes shorter.

[pedro1918]

Wait a minute folks, it's Joe West. He's the star that people pay to see. The game really should adapt to Joe's needs. Maybe we should let him umpire from a Lazy-Boy recliner with a gin and tonic in his hand.

I mean serioulsy, who does he think he is?

[Soxfan in Fla]

The whole "speed up the game" edict...where is it coming from? Is there any real evidence that fans don't like this? Because if so, it's not showing up in attendance, TV ratings, etc. Frankly, I would think that longer games are better for business- you sell more ads, you sell more beer. I get that it's something people complain about, but I have a hard time imagining that stopping if the games are 15 minutes shorter.

To be fair to Joe West, do you realize how hard it is to stand there with that much weight for 4 hours, all the while NOT being able to hold a beer or a giant plate of food. I think this is Joe's big issues. 4 hours is a long time to go standing there holding that much weight and not being able to gorge yourself.

[jk333]

The games are too long. Its completely boring. Baseball games should not go for 4 or 5 hours.

That said, the umpire of said games should not be commenting on it. Especially in season.

[zenter]

I miss the days when Sandy Alderson and the MLB head office had their collective feet on these guys' throats.

I'm curious about this. Are the umps a powerful enough group again that MLB cannot simply impose some sort of reward system for quality? I seem to remember that calls got better the year QuesTec went online (versus the previous year), but things have been downhill since. Is that incorrect?

Regarding shortening games, this is an ongoing thing for baseball. As has been mentioned here previously, 3 hrs / 6 days a week is not exactly something that will easily attract a new fanbase (versus 3-4 hrs / 1 day a week in NFL, 2-3 hrs / 4 days a week in basketball and hockey). Shorter games lowers the "cost" of adoption, something we die-hards don't worry about as much.

Finally, if Joe West and his peers feel pressure about shortening the game, and do so at the expense of making consistent and quality calls, then they ought not be umping.

[RedOctober3829]

Don't you think part of the reason these two teams are as good as they are is their ability to wear pitchers out and make them throw more? I know it's hard to do, but if Country Joe actually looks up the facts it will show him that the better teams play longer games(Red Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers played the longest average games last year and all made the playoffs). This guy is so far from the reality of present-day baseball that he needs binoculars to see it along with using them to see his own feet.

If I'm the Red Sox or the Yankees, I'd be calling Bud's office right now to tell him to keep his umpires' mouths shut and concentrate on their jobs.

[Trlicek's Whip]

Considering how awful a great majority of the umpires are now, especially in their strike zone interpretation and their general attitude the last words ANY umpire should ever be uttering about anything other than how lousy they themselves are as a group is "pathetic and embarrassing".

I wish MLB could fine the umps for shit-stirring comments like this the same way they fine players and managers when criticizing the umps.



The World Umpires Association is a corpulent, power-mad, entitled bunch of reeking old crotches, and having a mutant, professional wattle grower like Joe West as their poster boy summarizes them aptly. I hope we hear from West again soon about a personal and epically embarrassing scandal - some damning transgression like gambling, kidtouching, serial affairs, a drug habit - because to me arrogance like his is of the "doth protest too much" variety that is most often seen in politics, celebrity, Wall Street, and other such positions of drunk power.

[Rudy Pemberton]

The games are too long. Its completely boring. Baseball games should not go for 4 or 5 hours.

I guess I disagree, I was not bored at all these past few nights (angry at times, yes). I love baseball, the more the better.

[absintheofmalaise]

Let's save the Joe West is fat observations for the game threads please.

One thing that the umpires were doing to speed up the games was not calling time every time a batter asked for it. Doesn't save a lot of time, but it is one thing they can control.

[Rudy Pemberton]

One thing that the umpires were doing to speed up the games was not calling time every time a batter asked for it. Doesn't save a lot of time, but it is one thing they can control.

Except the batters end up complaining, which takes up more time than the original time out would have taken if granted. The biggest factor in the increase in game length is the increase in players getting on base, no?

[j44thor]

Let's save the Joe West is fat observations for the game threads please.

One thing that the umpires were doing to speed up the games was not calling time every time a batter asked for it. Doesn't save a lot of time, but it is one thing they can control.

Yeah and I happen to have a huge problem with this. If they aren't going to allow for time outs to be called then they sure as hell better make sure the pitcher is following the rules that describe how quickly a pitch should be delievered. It can be a dangerous situation for a batter to have to sit there in the batters box for 30 seconds not blinking waiting for a pitch.

8.04
When the bases are unoccupied, the pitcher shall deliver the ball to the batter within 12 seconds after he receives the ball. Each time the pitcher delays the game by violating this rule, the umpire shall call “Ball.” The 12-second timing starts when the pitcher is in possession of the ball and the batter is in the box, alert to the pitcher. The timing stops when the pitcher releases the ball.
The intent of this rule is to avoid unnecessary delays. The umpire shall insist that the catcher return the ball promptly to the pitcher, and that the pitcher take his position on the rubber promptly. Obvious delay by the pitcher should instantly be penalized by the umpire.

I can understand not calling ball since I've never once seen it happen but if a batter calls timeout after 12 seconds and doesn't get it granted then the pitch should be an automatic ball. You want to speed up the game, have the umpires read a rulebook.

[pedros hairstylist]

I'm not for union-busting, but this is one case where I'd be all for it. How do you assign two of the most ridiculously self-serving and/or unprofessional umpires working to the league's marquee series that opens your season and reintroduces your brand to the public?

For that matter, same with closing the season (in the playoffs) with one of the worst crews out there. Someone needs to be fired.

[absintheofmalaise]

Except the batters end up complaining, which takes up more time than the original time out would have taken if granted. The biggest factor in the increase in game length is the increase in players getting on base, no?

Yes Rudy, more offense usually causes the games to go longer. Just like taking pitches does. So do the number of tv commercials. that's why I mentioned the less time outs thing that seemed to be happening. It is in their control,
If they stick with the not granting time every time a batter asks for it, the players will adapt and quit bitching about it. Just like they adapt to different strike zones for different umpires.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Except the batters end up complaining, which takes up more time than the original time out would have taken if granted. The biggest factor in the increase in game length is the increase in players getting on base, no?

And the length of time it takes for pitchers to throw the ball. There's a rule on the books about it, but umpires rarely enforce it.

Keep the batters in the batter's box and the pitcher on the mound ready to throw, and games will speed up. Also, Joe West could always stop granting time every time he's asked. And his strike zone doesn't help whatsoever as he tends to squeeze pitchers.

His one point could be pointed to Posada's ceaseless trips to the mound. He does this 8-10 times per game and it's infuriating and unnecessary.

[absintheofmalaise]

Yeah and I happen to have a huge problem with this. If they aren't going to allow for time outs to be called then they sure as hell better make sure the pitcher is following the rules that describe how quickly a pitch should be delievered. It can be a dangerous situation for a batter to have to sit there in the batters box for 30 seconds not blinking waiting for a pitch.



I can understand not calling ball since I've never once seen it happen but if a batter calls timeout after 12 seconds and doesn't get it granted then the pitch should be an automatic ball. You want to speed up the game, have the umpires read a rulebook.

I agree that they need to make the pitchers deliver the ball to the plate faster, especially if they are going to continue with this during games. I wasn't paying that much attention to how long it took for the pitchers to deliver the ball during the games. A lot of times the hitters just call time to throw off the pitcher's timing. Just like pitchers take longer at times to throw off the hitter's timing. The fielders hate it when the pitchers take too long to throw to the plate too.

[pokey_reese]

Given that he is fat and outspoken, can we call him "Prop Joe" West?

Really though, I think that he was fine just making points about the speed of the game, but the pathetic and embarassing line is unnecessary and combative. It sure seems like another case of an umpire who just wants attention, especially in light of this article:http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-compassionate-umpire/ showing how umpires artifically extend ABs. Is it that hard to make a point without going out of your way to insult the two most popular teams in the game.

[BoSox Rule]

His one point could be pointed to Posada's ceaseless trips to the mound. He does this 8-10 times per game and it's infuriating and unnecessary.

This was what I was going to bring up. It's completely fair for a catcher to want to be on the same page as his pitchers, that's a given. I've always wondered why the catchers always has to go out there instead of just giving the sign again. Are these pitchers really that stupid that after all Spring Training, and all the side sessions and bullpens, etc. that they need the catcher to come out...."Oh that's what that sign is...."

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

This was what I was going to bring up. It's completely fair for a catcher to want to be on the same page as his pitchers, that's a given. I've always wondered why the catchers always has to go out there instead of just giving the sign again. Are these pitchers really that stupid that after all Spring Training, and all the side sessions and bullpens, etc. that they need the catcher to come out...."Oh that's what that sign is...."

This is one thing that should be stopped immediately and I'd support a rule change doing so. It's gotten to obnoxious levels.

[MoGator71]

I'm not for union-busting, but this is one case where I'd be all for it. How do you assign two of the most ridiculously self-serving and/or unprofessional umpires working to the league's marquee series that opens your season and reintroduces your brand to the public?

For that matter, same with closing the season (in the playoffs) with one of the worst crews out there. Someone needs to be fired.

Absolutely.

I felt like all 3 plate umps in this series had relatively small strike zones...calling strikes would speed things up.

If Joe West has a problem I'm sure he knows where the door is...I'm sure MLB will find a way to go on without him.

[roundegotrip]

Boston and NYY lead the majors in the average amount of seconds between pitches, and they seem to get a lot worse when they're facing each other. The patient hitters definitely contribute, but the pitchers do need to work faster. It can get tough to watch when guys are taking 30 seconds or longer between pitches.

[Lars The Wanderer]

This is one thing that should be stopped immediately and I'd support a rule change doing so. It's gotten to obnoxious levels.

A catcher's trip to the mound should count as a visit. Do it twice in an inning and the pitcher has to be removed.

[bandito0]

A catcher's trip to the mound should count as a visit. Do it twice in an inning and the pitcher has to be removed.

Especially considering a fair amount of those trips are taken to discuss a mix up or strategy for a situational pitch. A lot of catchers and pitchers, I think, have become too dependent on those visits to talk about how to make a perfect pitch to a hitter. Plan ahead pre-game, in the dugout or have one of the two parts of the battery check his ego and go with what the other one wants (i.e. shake offs and stuff like that).

I'm echo your sentiments Lars. In the meantime, Joe West should shut his mouth. He's an MLB employee who is attacking the MLB product. If it was Stern or Goodell in there, he'd be suspended for those comments today.

[Jnai]

Three things about this entire tirade are mind-bogglingly stupid:

1) If the umpires wanted to make the games go faster, why were the strikezones so tiny at times? The clearest way for umpires to increase the speed of games is to call wider strikezones. No one can argue with them for doing so. It requires no additional rules or regulations. But, in this series, strikezones were inconsistent, poorly discriminated, and at times, absurdly tight (and then inexplicably expanded). I mean, just call pitches in the strikezone strikes, then we can increase the speed of the game. It\'s not that complicated.

2) Of the 162 players in my sample, 5 of the 10 ten most patient hitters (Scutaro, Johnson, Swisher, Drew, & Cameron) were playing in that game. Youk is only 6 spots down the list. The point is, clearly both the Red Sox and Yankees value this trait in their hitters. The Sox went out and signed two of the most patient hitters in the off-season. The fact of the matter is, if this trait imparts a performance advantage (and by all accounts, it does), then why would we be punishing teams that exploit it?

3) Who really wants these games to go faster? They are fun, exciting TV. I don\'t want Posada to be prevented from talking with pitchers. I don\'t want the Red Sox prevented from calling time-out to disrupt pitcher rhythms. These are two of the best teams in baseball, let them play the game according to the rules, which are very lax when it comes to timing.

[David Laurila]

Last night's game was by far the shortest in the three-game series. It also lasted longer than every other game played in MLB last night with the exception of two that went extra innings [yes, I am aware that Sox-NYY went 10].

I agree with West's premise. Sox-NYY games are excruciatingly, and to a large part unnecessarily, long.

[Captaincoop]

An umpire has no business commenting to the media on something like this, but the length of games is absolutely a problem. The commercial breaks are longer than they used to be, the pitchers take way too much time between pitches, and every single batter steps out of the box after almost every pitch.

The longer commercial breaks are a concession made to increase revenue, so I doubt those are going to be going away. But MLB should absolutely be working with umpires and with the MLBPA to force pitchers to work faster and batters to stop stepping out after every pitch.

Maybe it's not a big concern to a subset of baseball's most passionate fans; people who spend most waking hours on a message board discussing the Red Sox. But for the casual fans (which probably make up 80% of the potential television audience on any given night) a three-hour-and-forty-five-minute game probably isn't that appealing. People just aren't used to getting their TV entertainment in 4-hour chunks, and I don't really blame them.

[24JoshuaPoint]

This is one thing that should be stopped immediately and I'd support a rule change doing so. It's gotten to obnoxious levels.

Agree. It's to the point where they are visiting for multiple pitches during the same batter b/c there is a mixup or something. Throw a pitch. But i do also agree there are other factors involved that are beyond their (the teams) control.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Last night's game was by far the shortest in the three-game series. It also lasted longer than every other game played in MLB last night with the exception of two that went extra innings [yes, I am aware that Sox-NYY went 10].

I agree with West's premise. Sox-NYY games are excruciatingly, and to a large part unnecessarily, long.

Did you read the entire thread? What we are arguing about is West's contention that the players and teams are solely to blame to the extended length of the games. An umpire is not an innocent bystander regarding game length and it's quite rich that Joe West, who sports a wildly inconsistent and very small strike zone which greatly contributes to the length of the games, is the one bitching about it.

He has many, many tools at his disposal to keep the games moving. He and his fellow umps are loath to use them.

[mt8thsw9th]

What's lost in all of this is Papelbon is actually noticeably faster in toeing the rubber and getting rid of the ball this year. His results haven't been so good, but he's not taking 35-50 seconds each time he gets the ball back. He's now just nerve wracking, not nerve wracking and incredibly slow on the mound.

[roundegotrip]

He has many, many tools at his disposal to keep the games moving. He and his fellow umps are loath to use them.

For instance, tacking an extra ball on to a pitcher's count when he's taking too long between pitches. In a 350 pitch game, if the pitchers are taking 30 seconds between pitches instead of say 25, that adds almost 30 minutes to the length of the game. 30 extra minutes of watching pitchers stare at the plate or fidget on the mound.

[Rook05]

Keep the batters in the batter's box and the pitcher on the mound ready to throw, and games will speed up.

Most of the obvious points have already been made, but would anyone not be in favor of this? I'll watch baseball all day, but I don't see how saving 4-5 seconds per at bat of hitters wandering around the box can be a bad thing.

[BoSox Rule]

You know what really struck me as painful, and I forget if it was Sunday or Tuesday: The pitching change to bring in Marte. You had A-Rod run in for a fake meeting at the mound and then throw over to first with Youkilis over there. Marte isn't ready? Tough shit. If you want Marte to face Ortiz, have him ready. Obviously it was the right strategic move but have him ready to go love of God.

And on the subject of pitching changes, let's speed those up to. Come a few steps out of the dugout and signal for your reliever and have the current pitcher take the ball with him, we can replace that and Lord knows they replace many baseballs if it even so much as touches the ground. It doesn't help having fat old goats like Bobby Cox and Tommy Lasorda in the day walking a half a mile an hour out to the mound.

And only pick off if you need to. I'm not gonna go Bill James on it and limit it to two, there are 27 outs in the game and you're trying to get one, but only throw over there if you're actually trying to get the runner out. The minimum effort pickoff is pointless.

Edited by BoSox Rule, 08 April 2010 - 11:10 AM.

[behindthepen]

Boston and NYY lead the majors in the average amount of seconds between pitches,

do you have a source for that? I'd be interested in seeing the whole league's data.

Last night's game was by far the shortest in the three-game series. It also lasted longer than every other game played in MLB last night with the exception of two that went extra innings [yes, I am aware that Sox-NYY went 10].

I agree with West's premise. Sox-NYY games are excruciatingly, and to a large part unnecessarily, long.

I know that the Sox-yanks games are always going to be longer, but they really are too long.

And whoever was comparing the time of last night's game, did you look at the whole game or the first 9 innings?

Edit: and finally, I also agree that MLB should not put this crew of dumbarses on Sox-yanks games. They clearly made things worse.

Edited by behindthepen, 08 April 2010 - 11:12 AM.

[RedOctober3829]

His one point could be pointed to Posada's ceaseless trips to the mound. He does this 8-10 times per game and it's infuriating and unnecessary.

It's not just limited to Posada. Varitek started going to the mound on every important trip years ago.

It comes down to the fact that stepping out of the box, going to the mound, etc. are part of the game. You can't stop it entirely. But, umpires can limit the excessive behavior in which it has been occuring the last few years. West shouldn't be calling out particular teams and he should be reprimanded for it. Umpires can also expand their zone a couple inches if they want to stop teams from abusing small strike zones. It's only right to take borderline pitches if teams see that it is consistently called a ball.

[behindthepen]

Here's the link to jnai's strikezone plot for West's called balls/strikes Sunday night. My conclusion is that he really sucks at umpiring:

http://brooksbasebal...i...ton Red Sox

[Jnai]

Just in the way of providing visual evidence for the points above about the respective strikezone called in each game, here you go:




See, look. If we just made all those little green dots inside the black box into red dots, the game would go faster!

Edit: Also, Umpire\'s union be damned, this year I am printing the name, date, and game on the fucking graph. If you want to be a public figure by talking to the media, then own your work.

Edited by Jnai, 08 April 2010 - 11:21 AM.

[roundegotrip]

do you have a source for that? I'd be interested in seeing the whole league's data.

It's almost two years old (didn't realize I'd read it that long ago) and it's a smallish sample, but here's an article from THT that figured up every team's average using pitchfx time stamps.

[Hyde Park Factor]

What prompted West to say all this? Is he just running his mouth or is he somebody's mouthpiece?

Can't add anything new, all the salient points have been made, but his comment about the "players not working with us...". Hello?? It's up to the umpires to run the show whether the players "work with you" or not.

[Maalox]

Last night's game was by far the shortest in the three-game series. It also lasted longer than every other game played in MLB last night with the exception of two that went extra innings [yes, I am aware that Sox-NYY went 10].

I agree with West's premise. Sox-NYY games are excruciatingly, and to a large part unnecessarily, long.

In 1998, twelve (12) years ago, the McNeil Lehrer NewsHour observed: "In the last 20 years, the average length of games in the American League has increased from 2 hours 30 minutes to 3 hours."

So, over the past 12 years, an extra 15 minutes has been taken out of your day by a game you purportedly enjoy.

If people find baseball that boring that they must search for pleasure in complaining that the premiere matchup in the game takes too long, maybe they should stop watching it. The duration of baseball games, like health care reform, is something that has become an issue because people who want it to be an issue won't shut up about it.

[bosockboy]

It's easy to imagine West's disdain for these games affecting his performance, which is what is truly scary.

I agree with whoever said the whole thing needs to get younger. 65 year old men just don't want to do anything for 5 hours, much less stay on their feet. I imagine his disgust is also bolstered by the fact the Sox-Yanks have a lot of day games in the summer on national TV, and he has had to work a lot of 4-5 hour games in 95 degree heat.

Still, cry me a fucking river. There are millions of us who would cut our pinky off to have his job; what a dick.

Edited by bosockboy, 08 April 2010 - 11:41 AM.

[TomRicardo]

Last night's game was by far the shortest in the three-game series. It also lasted longer than every other game played in MLB last night with the exception of two that went extra innings [yes, I am aware that Sox-NYY went 10].

I agree with West's premise. Sox-NYY games are excruciatingly, and to a large part unnecessarily, long.

Are you serious? The dude that writes long tedious interviews with prospects is calling that excruciating?

If you paid attention at all you would notice that in a 3-1 game there were over 300 pitches thrown last night. That is an amazing amount of pitches for such a low scoring game. That tells you two things:

1) There were a ton of patient hitters taking pitches and making the counts long
2) There were a ton of pitching changes because pitcher's pitch counts were stretched.

Both those mean, wait for it, A LONGER GAME.

Basically you hate patient hitters if you hated the length of the game.

Edited by TomRicardo, 08 April 2010 - 02:56 PM.

[Rudy Pemberton]

If people find baseball that boring that they must search for pleasure in complaining that the premiere matchup in the game takes too long, maybe they should stop watching it. The duration of baseball games, like health care reform, is something that has become an issue because people who want it to be an issue won't shut up about it.

Amen. The people who bitch about the length of baseball games will not stop anytime soon. If the games were 2 hours long, people would bitch about them being too short. People complain about games starting too late; and when they are moved...people complain that they start too early. People just complain. Adding rules about how many throws you can make to first, or how many trips a catcher can make to the mound? Eh. Part of the beauty of baseball is that there is no clock, lets not mess with this too much.

If folks really want to watch shorter games, become a fan of the National League. But don't piss and moan about lack of patience, sacrifice bunts, crappy hitting, and other things that make games short.

Edited by Rudy Pemberton, 08 April 2010 - 11:46 AM.

[Al Zarilla]

Boston and NYY lead the majors in the average amount of seconds between pitches, and they seem to get a lot worse when they're facing each other. The patient hitters definitely contribute, but the pitchers do need to work faster. It can get tough to watch when guys are taking 30 seconds or longer between pitches.

Lackey can't move that overall stat a lot by himself, but he's going to help. He's my new favorite Sox pitcher, at least against the MFYs.

Speaking of 30 sec. between pitches, I have a Comcast remote button programmed for 30 seconds forward jump. It's perfect for between plays in football, but still a little too long for between pitches. Hope that doesn't change.

[Max Power]

Boston and NYY lead the majors in the average amount of seconds between pitches, and they seem to get a lot worse when they're facing each other. The patient hitters definitely contribute, but the pitchers do need to work faster. It can get tough to watch when guys are taking 30 seconds or longer between pitches.

One things leads to the other. Pitchers don't start working faster as they work harder. I can't really fault Okie for taking 30 seconds between pitches when Swisher has just fouled off 5 in a row. He had to be worn out by that point.

[jon abbey]

If people find baseball that boring that they must search for pleasure in complaining that the premiere matchup in the game takes too long, maybe they should stop watching it.

Or just DVR it and start watching 60-90 minutes after it starts, it's easy to catch up to live action by the late innings.