557 replies to this topic

[cshea]

http://twitter.com/HackswithHaggs

Update on Marc Savard: He didnt go to hospital, but will remain at team hotel in Pittsburgh w/ member of B's medical staff as a precaution

Marc Savard has a concussion, he lost consciousness and Claude julien said "he'll be out for a while." #Bruins

So here we are. 18 games left, in 7th place with a 3 point cushion on 9th (pending tonights games), and Savard will miss significant time. Sucks, but pretty much all we can do is plug Sobotka into the lineup and bump the centers up a spot. My guess is we'll also see the return of Trent Whitfield.

[FelixMantilla]

Oh yeah, and here's another one by Cooke.



And yet another....

Edited by FelixMantilla, 07 March 2010 - 07:23 PM.

[catomatic]

I'm of the opinion that where there is even a suggestion of intent, that the offender miss at least as much time as the victim. Do you really want to deal with head shots NHL? That will do it more than anything else. Also, give their entire career the hockey equivalent of a yellow card. If you say you want to minimize cheap, injurious crap, minimize fighting etc., just do it for chrissakes - stop with the disingenuousness.
This keeps Bergeron at center, I'd like to see Sobotka and Marchand instead of Whitfield, but Claude will disagree.

[Spaulding Smails]

Patrice Bergeron on conversation he had w/ ref after Cook headshot on Savard w/ no penalty: "[The ref] said that he finished his check."

Ok so the ref did see it and just was too fucking incompetent. Good to know.

[PedroSpecialK]

Ok so the ref did see it and just was too fucking incompetent. Good to know.

Since the contact was 2 inches away from the elbow, it was deemed part of the shoulder and thus legal.

Fabulous.

[catomatic]

The similarity to the Anisimov hit is chilling. Anisimov's was more glancing though, Savard's head looked like it might come off. If Cooke extended his elbow, he would have missed his head entirely, catching his shoulder instead, and as any rational human being can discern from watching the tape, he wanted the head.

How did the Rangers respond? Knowing that team, very little was done in that situation too. This was pre- Shelley right?

[Salem's Lot]

And I was giving the refs the benefit of the doubt that they were following the shot. Whichever ref made that comment should be fired immediatly.

[Dummy Hoy]

Cooke (and some others) excel at throwing elbows that don't appear to be elbow hits, by holding them in until the last minute and following through with the arm on the hit. It's dirty and essentially premeditated. I hope Cooke gets suspended until the B's game, and then suits up. That would be some proper punishment.

[mikeford]

The replays on the Pittsburgh feed absolutely looked intentional. Matt Cooke is a renowned scumbag.

[MoGator71]

The replays on the Pittsburgh feed absolutely looked intentional. Matt Cooke is a renowned scumbag.

Yes. He basically chicken-wings his arm out to give Savard the head shot. He's not a Hab so hopefully they give him a nice long vacation.

[PedroSpecialK]

Yes. He basically chicken-wings his arm out to give Savard the head shot. He's not a Hab so hopefully they give him a nice long vacation.

It would be so fucking NHL to suspend him for six games to put him out of the lineup for the game v. Boston. That, or they'd suspend him for 2 more games. 5 would suit me just fine, if only to see if this group of schmucks would respond.

[erfus]

It would be so fucking NHL to suspend him for six games to put him out of the lineup for the game v. Boston. That, or they'd suspend him for 2 more games. 5 would suit me just fine, if only to see if this group of schmucks would respond.

He did tuck in his elbow pretty well, even Brickley said as much. I think his repeat offender status and the result of the hit (typical NHL) will get him in more trouble. The intent was there though--he was definitely going for the skull. Whether it was his elbow or a hard shoulder pad cap, it really doesn't matter IMO. It's hard to punish intent I suppose but there are at least a dozen players that really have no business being in the league IMO. We can all name 'em too. The NHL is not a better place with morons like that running around trying to kill people.

[catomatic]

[quote name='erfus' date='Mar 7 2010, 08:45 PM' post='2840400']
He did tuck in his elbow pretty well, even Brickley said as much.

He tucked it in because he was so close and he didn't want to hit Marc's shoulder, he wanted to hit his head. He needed to tuck it to deliver the hit he wanted to.

[Nuf Ced]

This is exactly the kind of hit that the GM's will pay lip service to stopping at the team meetings....and then do nothing about it.

Cooke should have to sit out as long as Savard is out. But I'm not counting on Campbell to do the right thing.

[MoGator71]

This is exactly the kind of hit that the GM's will pay lip service to stopping at the team meetings....and then do nothing about it.

Cooke should have to sit out as long as Savard is out. But I'm not counting on Campbell to do the right thing.

The worst part is as I recall the union asked for legislation about head shots and the owners didn't want it.

[jk333]

Lucic has looked slow and out of it for a few months now. The past few games he's been more active. Prior to his injuries this season I said if he keeps this up he's going to literally, seriously hurt someone in the next few years, in a fight. I meant, very seriously hurt someone, well, I'd love to see that timetable brought up a couple years and for it to be Matt Cooke.

Dirty hit. Shoulder or elbow, we all know what he was doing, I'd love nothing more than for Lucic to knock him out cold, wouldn't bother me in the least.

[catomatic]

NHL's Facebook page under the NHL + Fans section has a nice back and forth that I'm enjoying contributing to.

Somebody (Jeffrey Marsh) just wrote this:

"if they cant take the hit tell them to stay home"

To which I found it necessary to answer with this:

Mr. Marsh, I have to say, those don't sound like the words of a human being of any worthwhile conscience or heart. They also sound like the words of somebody who doesn't now, and never did, play the game of hockey with any skill or spirit. Its not a forum, as I suspect you think of it, for the redress of childhood humiliations. Clearly you have already found the internet useful for that. Come play in my league with Ex AHL and Ex D1 players and say something like that in the locker room. Find out just how well your internet tough guy act will play there. The inauthenticity of your hockey "pose" would be exposed the moment that sentiment left your stupid mouth"

[j44thor]

Colin Cambell is such a fucking moron I'll be shocked if Cooke gets more than 2 games. If multiple offender Boogard's knee to knee hit on Ryan Jones only gets two games, I imagine Cooke gets the same.

This hit could have ended Jones career and was probably the dirtiest play of the season.

[catomatic]

[quote name='j44thor' date='Mar 7 2010, 09:50 PM' post='2840541']
Colin Cambell is such a fucking moron I'll be shocked if Cooke gets more than 2 games. If multiple offender Boogard's knee to knee hit on Ryan Jones only gets two games, I imagine Cooke gets the same.

This hit could have ended Jones career and was probably the dirtiest play of the season.

That's hideous.

I've turned a corner on this stuff tonight. My view of the NHL's stance on fighting and this crap is this. Keep fighting in the game, and make the Refs allow the player code to operate without undue interference.

Kick these types of players; Cooke and Boogard out of the game after their third such offense. Their first two need to result in suspensions commensurate to the games lost by the victim to injury.

Oh, and fine the shit out of them.

[Catcher Block]

After the Blues' Cam Janssen got 5 games for this hit (he's considered a second offender from the Kaberle hit a few years ago), I would hope that Cooke gets at least 4, possibly more since he's purposefully sought out and contacted only Savard's head, regardless of whether he led with his hand, forearm, elbow or shoulder.

[TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle]

That's a horrible hit and "Well, someone ran me the same way down the other end," isn't an excuse. You can kill someone doing that.

Head shot, no injury: 5 games
Head shot, injury: as long as the injured player is out + 5 games

For each incident above 1, multiply suspension by the number of incidents. After some specified number of incidents, the team employing the player gets fined and they can't move someone into the fined player's roster spot for 5 games.

No need to rule for intent or no. Simple: you hit someone in the head, you go for five games minimum. And yes, I know Chara could get dinged for this due to "Pronger Physics," but I'd rather guys actively avoid going for the head and that teams stop employing guys who do it.

[Spaulding Smails]

That's a horrible hit and "Well, someone ran me the same way down the other end," isn't an excuse. You can kill someone doing that.

Head shot, no injury: 5 games
Head shot, injury: as long as the injured player is out + 5 games

For each incident above 1, multiply suspension by the number of incidents. After some specified number of incidents, the team employing the player gets fined and they can't move someone into the fined player's roster spot for 5 games.

No need to rule for intent or no. Simple: you hit someone in the head, you go for five games minimum. And yes, I know Chara could get dinged for this due to "Pronger Physics," but I'd rather guys actively avoid going for the head and that teams stop employing guys who do it.

The fact that Cooke said he got hit the same way a few minutes earlier more or less shows that he was pissed and wanted revenge on someone with a similar hit. What a gutless puke he is. I agree with you, zero tolerance on hits to the head. Just this week alone there have been numerous cheap shots around the league, not a good week for the NHL.

Edited by Spaulding Smails, 07 March 2010 - 10:18 PM.

[j44thor]

After the Blues' Cam Janssen got 5 games for this hit (he's considered a second offender from the Kaberle hit a few years ago), I would hope that Cooke gets at least 4, possibly more since he's purposefully sought out and contacted only Savard's head, regardless of whether he led with his hand, forearm, elbow or shoulder.

The thing with that hit is that Bradley hadn't touched the puck for a few seconds. I'm convinced more and more that Colin Cambell is beyond incompetent at his job.

That type of hit from a repeat offender should get 20 games. When is the NHL going to start really penalizing guys for this BS, I mean Cam Janssen doesn't even belong in the NHL in the first place so it hardly hurts his team when he gets suspended.

[jk333]

I just want Cooke to get hurt... I'm not going to lie, I'm not above it. I just want someone to hurt him, so the length of suspension isn't important to me. He's not going to have his ability to to earn $$$ affected by the suspension, so in my mind, injuring him is much better. Still, it would best to do it cleanly; don't won't to stoop to his level...

[PedroSpecialK]

The thing with that hit is that Bradley hadn't touched the puck for a few seconds. I'm convinced more and more that Colin Cambell is beyond incompetent at his job.

Sadly, the first time something serious will be done about this will be when/if Gregory Campbell eats an elbow coming across the middle.

[lexrageorge]

As much as I'd like to see head shots seriously penalized, all you need to know about the typical NHL fan is this:

Back in November, an overage junior league player (overage because he had no skill other than gooning) threw a talented young player into the boards with a blind side head shot. The result was a TBI for the victim (I believe he's still in a rehab hospital), and a permanent suspension for the goon.

And then there was the lifetime suspension for the OHL player (and former Devils prospect, since traded for Kovalchuk) who came across the ice with the intent to level an elbow at an opposing player's head (very disturbing video of this one lying around).

In both cases, the lifetime suspension was heavily criticized by the "NHL types", including Greg Wyshynski. In both incidents the victim was criticized for "having his head down" or not allowing the player to "finish the check" or some such nonsense.

I'd love for the NHL to give Cooke 20 games or more. But then Blueberry and Don Cherry and KPD others will get their panties in a tither about how the game is being watered down, and how the league is trying to legislate away hitting, etc. Why these dinosaurs can't tell the difference between a good, clean body check and an intentional elbow to the head is beyond me.

[j44thor]

The timing for all these bush league hits couldn't be worse either. You would think the NHL has picked up some sort of olympic bump from casual fans checking out a sport that was hugely popular during the olympics.

If I was a casual observer and watched a few games that had deliberate intent to injure plays I'd probably think twice about the legitimacy of the sport.

[jk333]

Honestly, was that an elbow to the head? I mean, it was BASICALLY and elbow to the head. But, really, it was a upperarm (is there a term for this? forearm for below the elbow) to the head, no?

The point is elbows/blows/cheapshots to the head should be illegal. Blow up someone's body; hits like the one on Savard aren't about having your head down; a shoulder to the head can be just as horrible as an elbow to the head.

Edited by jk333, 07 March 2010 - 11:12 PM.

[Rough Carrigan]

One of the paradoxes of giving the players better safety equipment is that this stuff seems to happen more often. Yes, there was the Ted Green thing years ago. But when no one's wearing a helmet and no one's wearing that much padding, you have the twin deterrents that a goon can't tell himself that nothing will happen to a guy I elbow in the head because I'll just get his helmet. And the goon knows that his head isn't protected either.

Just a thought.

[kenneycb]

Regarding the "eye for an eye" punishment, it's great in principle but it would never work out realistically. Teams would have more incentive to completely hold out a mediocre, replaceable player for extended periods until they are absolutely, 100%, undoubtedly healthy to keep the offending party out longer as well. Sports people are evil and there is way too much room for abuse on that one.

[Rough Carrigan]

Just saw Sidney Crosby interviewed after the game saying the players need to know where the line is and hoping the players will police this themselves. And a thought immediately occurred to me. Uh, Sid? Do you know that one way that team's "police" this themselves is that if you cheap shot one of our stars we'll cheap shot, oh, Sidney Crosby?

[kenneycb]

Just saw Sidney Crosby interviewed after the game saying the players need to know where the line is and hoping the players will police this themselves. And a thought immediately occurred to me. Uh, Sid? Do you know that one way that team's "police" this themselves is that if you cheap shot one of our stars we'll cheap shot, oh, Sidney Crosby?

I would love to see the suspension stemming from a hit like that on Crosby.

[Rough Carrigan]

I would love to see the suspension stemming from a hit like that on Crosby.

Yup, the league would go nuts. Maybe they should be proactive and heavily suspend his asshole teammate before the situation results in Crosby in a hospital after an Ogie Oglethorpe "check".

[BucketOBalls]

Regarding the "eye for an eye" punishment, it's great in principle but it would never work out realistically. Teams would have more incentive to completely hold out a mediocre, replaceable player for extended periods until they are absolutely, 100%, undoubtedly healthy to keep the offending party out longer as well. Sports people are evil and there is way too much room for abuse on that one.

I wonder if letting the opposing team pick who serves the suspension would work?

Edited by BucketOBalls, 07 March 2010 - 11:48 PM.

[bosoxx05]

We have Pittsburgh the first game back after this seven game road trip. I expect heads to roll
I'll guess a five gamer for the douche. Should be ten,

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Just saw Sidney Crosby interviewed after the game saying the players need to know where the line is and hoping the players will police this themselves. And a thought immediately occurred to me. Uh, Sid? Do you know that one way that team's "police" this themselves is that if you cheap shot one of our stars we'll cheap shot, oh, Sidney Crosby?

That's easy for Crosby to say, since whenever an opposing player breathes on him the refs call a penalty.

I was moving some stuff for my in-laws all weekend and didn't see the game yesterday. And from the sounds of it, I'm glad I missed it. It's likely Savard's out for the season.

[Nuf Ced]

I am surprised that no one on the Bruins immediately jumped Cooke after that play. A year ago they would not have let a cheap shot like that go unanswered.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I am surprised that no one on the Bruins immediately jumped Cooke after that play. A year ago they would not have let a cheap shot like that go unanswered.

They may not have seen it clearly.

[catomatic]

I am surprised that no one on the Bruins immediately jumped Cooke after that play. A year ago they would not have let a cheap shot like that go unanswered.

More and more I'm convinced nobody on ice level for our side really got a good look at the hit, and since there wasn't mass outrage, if any single player did see it, he might have been inhibited by that fact. The forwards were ahead of the play and going to net, I wthink the left side D-man would have an obstructed view at best, and I don't know where the right D was. I'm telling myself to wait until the 18th, but its difficult, m y baser instincts are in high gear.

[Spaulding Smails]

I want Cooke suspended either 4 games or less just to see if this team has a pair to do something about it on the 18th or 10+ games. Anything more than 4 or less than 10 is a lose-lose for everyone.

[mikeford]

I mean, realistically what is the difference between this and the Patrice Cormier elbow from a month or so ago? I seriously dont see a difference other than Cormier had just hopped on the ice for his shift. Other than that, whats the difference? He deliberately sticks out his elbow in an effort to clip Savard's head. 5 games really isn't enough. This type of bullshit has no place in hockey.

[catomatic]

This from the Lets go Pens board:

Re: Was the Cooke hit dirty?
by sina220 on Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:55 am

Dirty play? Yes

Against the team on which Crosby bloodied Ference's dome piece? Yes

Against the same sissy POS who talked tough to Crosby about wearing a visor only to decline the fight once Crosby obliged? Yes

Do I have a problem with the hit? Nope

What goes around comes around, Mr. Savard. Maybe if you weren't such a vajeen when Crosby challenged you Cooke would've respected you enough not to blast your ass. Maybe that makes no difference, but with the history Sid has with Boston and Savard I'd be willing to bet it did.


Also, could this incident be used as another justification for enforcers? I think so. Cooke and our team faced minimal retaliation, and he really had minimal fear of doing what he did because there is noone on Boston's lineup he feared. At his age and importance Chara isn't fighting anymore. And is anyone really afraid of Shawn Thornton or Byron Bitz? Deterrence can go a long way, just like not backing down from a fight you started.

[TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle]

One of the paradoxes of giving the players better safety equipment is that this stuff seems to happen more often. Yes, there was the Ted Green thing years ago. But when no one's wearing a helmet and no one's wearing that much padding, you have the twin deterrents that a goon can't tell himself that nothing will happen to a guy I elbow in the head because I'll just get his helmet. And the goon knows that his head isn't protected either.

Just a thought.

Maybe. Or maybe they were just less reported on or our memories are bad. It's a possibility but we'd actually need some data to confirm.

[TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle]

Regarding the "eye for an eye" punishment, it's great in principle but it would never work out realistically. Teams would have more incentive to completely hold out a mediocre, replaceable player for extended periods until they are absolutely, 100%, undoubtedly healthy to keep the offending party out longer as well. Sports people are evil and there is way too much room for abuse on that one.

Yeah, I guess to solve that you'd slap a max number of games on the suspension or you use a neutral doctor's estimate of time needed to recover to get the number of games.

[Salem's Lot]

This from the Lets go Pens board:

Re: Was the Cooke hit dirty?
by sina220 on Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:55 am

Dirty play? Yes

Against the team on which Crosby bloodied Ference's dome piece? Yes

Against the same sissy POS who talked tough to Crosby about wearing a visor only to decline the fight once Crosby obliged? Yes

Do I have a problem with the hit? Nope

What goes around comes around, Mr. Savard. Maybe if you weren't such a vajeen when Crosby challenged you Cooke would've respected you enough not to blast your ass. Maybe that makes no difference, but with the history Sid has with Boston and Savard I'd be willing to bet it did.


Also, could this incident be used as another justification for enforcers? I think so. Cooke and our team faced minimal retaliation, and he really had minimal fear of doing what he did because there is noone on Boston's lineup he feared. At his age and importance Chara isn't fighting anymore. And is anyone really afraid of Shawn Thornton or Byron Bitz? Deterrence can go a long way, just like not backing down from a fight you started.

And why should we care about what some yahoo Pittsburgh homer on a message board thinks of Marc Savard? Cooke gave Savard a cheap shot because that's what Matt Cooke does. He has a track record. I certainly don't think it had anything to do with Savard talking trash to Crosby last year.

Edited by Salem's Lot, 08 March 2010 - 09:24 AM.

[Spaulding Smails]

And why should we care about what some yahoo Pittsburgh homer on a message board thinks of Marc Savard? Cooke gave Savard a cheap shot because that's what Matt Cooke does. He has a track record. I certainly don't think it had anything to do with Savard talking trash to Crosby last year.

Exactly, Cooke claimed he got hit in a similar fashion a few shifts earlier so he was pissed and was looking for revenge.

[catomatic]

And why should we care about what some yahoo Pittsburgh homer on a message board thinks of Marc Savard? Cooke gave Savard a cheap shot because that's what Matt Cooke does. He has a track record. I certainly don't think it had anything to do with Savard talking trash to Crosby last year.

I don't think it did either, I just found it completely galling is all, how far someone would travel to find a justification for such a thing. It dropped my jaw. I wouldn't call it caring so much as being appalling in a general way. I wasn't trying to arouse pitchfork/torch sentiments but maybe headshaking. This medium is too damn tone deaf.


Or I didn't frame the thought thoroughly enough.

Edited by catomatic, 08 March 2010 - 09:43 AM.

[locknload]

I don't think it did either, I just found it completely galling is all, how far someone would travel to find a justification for such a thing. It dropped my jaw. I wouldn't call it caring so much as being appalling in a general way. I wasn't trying to arouse pitchfork/torch sentiments but maybe headshaking. This medium is too damn tone deaf.


Or I didn't frame the thought thoroughly enough.

The great thing about the internet is everyone can say anything they want. The worst part about the internet is ANYONE can say anything they want. It truly is a cesspool. You can find pictures of such disturbing stuff you'll want to throw up on your keyboard (on this site no less). I'm no longer amazed by the depths of humanity you can find when probing the internet. That comment doesn't even register on the chart.

[Dummy Hoy]

A quote for those in the "The Bruins are Gutless Pansies" camp-

“Any time you see something like that, it’s frustrating,’’ Julien said. “You’re thinking revenge. First and foremost, you want to get back at this guy. But at the same time, you’ve got to win a hockey game here. So yeah, I had to keep my team under control and make them realize we had to win a hockey game.’’

(from the Globe)

Edited by Dummy Hoy, 08 March 2010 - 10:07 AM.

[mikeford]

A quote for those in the "The Bruins are Gutless Pansies" camp-



(from the Globe)

Basically echos what Lucic said on Toucher and Rich this morning... the best revenge is beating the team on the scoreboard.

On the other hand, the 2nd best revenge is punch-a-sizing Matt Cooke's face... for free.