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Big Ben in Trouble Again


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#501 bowiac


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Posted 21 April 2010 - 03:24 PM

QUOTE (Chemistry Schmemistry @ Apr 21 2010, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First, that's sexual assault, and the guy in the mail room could go to jail.

But let's say it's not a criminal offense. The guy in the mail room can be replaced with anyone. Your star quarterback cannot.


Wait, are you saying the NFL should have a different standard for star quarterbacks than they should for other players? Lets say Jake Ingram had been suspended under this same set of facts - then you think it's fine to suspend him? Long snappers are the mail room guys of the NFL, right?

The bottom line is that the NFL isn't held to the same standard as the DA's office. The DA has to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, which isn't the same as proving that he probably raped a girl. Probably isn't enough for the DA. There's no reason probably can't be enough for the NFL however, right?

#502 nighthob

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE (Chemistry Schmemistry @ Apr 21 2010, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not a Pittsburgh or a Roethlisberger fan, but this is troubling. He is being suspended for an offense that the DA cannot prosecute, despite there being very strict laws against sexual assault. He has no opportunity to defend himself.

If the Vikings sailed their sex boat tomorrow, to be consistent Goodell would have to suspend half of the entire team. Of course, the difference between the Vikings and the Steelers is that ownership defends Vikings players against accusations.

The Steelers had better trade Roethlisberger this week. I rather suspect he is done with them, though hopefully he has the brains to keep quiet about that even with close friends or his agent. Then his new team should challenge this suspension as strongly as the Vikings challenged the Williams sisters' suspension.


So, athletes should be free to skate free because they had the foresight to buy off sexual assault victims to avoid prosecution? Because one reason that there was no prosecution was that the victim refused to testify, and convicting on a rape charge without the victim's cooperation is pretty much impossible unless you can somehow find a defense attorney stupid enough to let you impanel a jury composed entirely of religiously conservative white guys.

#503 nighthob

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 03:46 PM

QUOTE (Rough Carrigan @ Apr 21 2010, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If that doesn't scare him straight, nothing will.

Shape up, asshole or you'll play for crypt keeper out in Cokeland!


And with Bruce Campbell as his left tackle! Ben might be legally dead by year's end.

#504 dcmissle


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Posted 21 April 2010 - 03:53 PM

QUOTE (Rough Carrigan @ Apr 21 2010, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If that doesn't scare him straight, nothing will.

Shape up, asshole or you'll play for crypt keeper out in Cokeland!


I still think that's the main point of this and will be surprised if Ben's dealt. For almost a week, it's been beautifully choreographed by the Steelers with Ben's prospects appearing more grim every day. We've now reached the point where Rooney is playing Clint Eastwood, and Ben's the punk on the ground wondering whether there's a round in the chamber.

I'd deal Ben only if I had reached the conclusion that he's too dumb or sociopathic to shape up.

#505 Ed Hillel


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Posted 21 April 2010 - 03:55 PM

Not only would he have to play for Oakland, but all the chicks he'd try to rape would kick his ass.

#506 Chemistry Schmemistry


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Posted 21 April 2010 - 03:55 PM

QUOTE (bowiac @ Apr 21 2010, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wait, are you saying the NFL should have a different standard for star quarterbacks than they should for other players? Lets say Jake Ingram had been suspended under this same set of facts - then you think it's fine to suspend him? Long snappers are the mail room guys of the NFL, right?


I'm saying that suspending any NFL player presumably has an effect on the entire franchise and fan base. Ingram might not be easily replaced, either.

QUOTE (bowiac)
The bottom line is that the NFL isn't held to the same standard as the DA's office. The DA has to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, which isn't the same as proving that he probably raped a girl. Probably isn't enough for the DA. There's no reason probably can't be enough for the NFL however, right?


When you're talking about suspensions, probably is not enough. I haven't heard enough to know whether this is even a probably or just a possibly, though. Perhaps Goodell knows more.

QUOTE (RGREELEY33)
1. But if she chose not to talk to prosecutors, or he argued the point and there was no hard "evidence", you would expect
the employer to just leave him alone?


In a dispute among fellow employees, the worry is creating a hostile working atmosphere, which would harm the company. If she chose not to prosecute, I still might act. It's a very different case, though, as my only concern would be the specific workplace.

QUOTE (RGREELEY33)
2. But Goodell is not directly concerned with the quality of QB play for the Pittsburgh Steelers. He is concerned with the overall health and image
of the NFL. And even if this was coming down from the Rooney's, there is a massive PR aspect to this, as there is with any corporation whether
it public or private. Yes, there may be leeway for "stars" of any organization, but when it is this public the company would be taking MUCH more
risk by not acting and running the risk that their brand would be damaged and they would be perceived as a compnay that was okay with this
type of behavior


I see Goodell's point. I think the outcome would be different if the Rooneys would say, "yes, this is serious and we will read him the riot act, but don't hurt our fans, just fine the sumbitch." Take five million from him and set up a fund to combat teenage drinking. He'll get the message.

QUOTE (RGREELEY33)
3. I'm a diehard Pats fan and if this was Brady I would have no problem with Goodell's actions. This wasn't just a he said/she said, the police case files were pretty damaging, as Goodell states, regardless if any actual crime took place. He was boozing with underage students, he had his "bodyguards" allowing and not allowing access, he had sex with her in a bathroom, and there were bruises and a hospital visit involved for her. Not to mention that this is the 2nd time in a year he was charged with rape or sexual assault.


I disagree. I think it shows Roethlisberger is likely rather disgusting. The first case seems like a money-grab, I'm really not sure whether a crime was committed here, but the DA has decided it's not a winnable case. While I agree something needs to be done, I would be upset if it were Brady and a suspension. I am not willing to sacrifice a season over bad judgment. On the other hand, if the DA did prosecute, my opinion would change completely.

QUOTE (jk333)
Thats the whole point. Teams have to think about their players now, they have to realize if they sign, Brandon Marshall for example, he might get suspended and miss half a season. Where as another player wouldn't be putting a team at such a risk.


That's true. But the same message has already been sent. Now, we're not certain about the standard. Marshall has been suspended a total of one game over a plea deal to criminal charges involving a DUI (and three games by the Broncos - two preseason, one regular season game informally) for breaking team rules. I think it's pretty clear that if Roethlisberger is found guilty of criminal charges, he's going to be suspended for a long time. This is different. Find me an example of where the conduct clause has been used where no charges have even been filed.

#507 Chemistry Schmemistry


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Posted 21 April 2010 - 03:59 PM

QUOTE (nighthob @ Apr 21 2010, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, athletes should be free to skate free because they had the foresight to buy off sexual assault victims to avoid prosecution? Because one reason that there was no prosecution was that the victim refused to testify, and convicting on a rape charge without the victim's cooperation is pretty much impossible unless you can somehow find a defense attorney stupid enough to let you impanel a jury composed entirely of religiously conservative white guys.


First, let's just keep race out of this.

I'm fine with Goodell using the "conduct" clause to fine him several game checks. That will send a message - no skating free. There's enough evidence that his conduct was not very good.

Everyone knows that a criminal conviction or plea deal will lead to an NFL suspension. So unless Roethlisberger is a massive idiot, he has learned an important lesson already.

#508 luckysox


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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:03 PM

QUOTE (Ed Hillel @ Apr 21 2010, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not only would he have to play for Oakland, but all the chicks he'd try to rape would kick his ass.

well played.

#509 nighthob

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:10 PM

QUOTE (Chemistry Schmemistry @ Apr 21 2010, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
First, let's just keep race out of this.


Religiously conservative caucasian males are the demographic most likely to vote for a conviction in a rape case, which is the only reason I mentioned it (i.e. unless you were able to get 12 jurors from the demographic most likely to convict there's no reason at all to proceed if you don't have the cooperation of the victim in a rape case, and probably not even then).

#510 Sille Skrub

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 10:01 AM

Bob Ley did a nice job with this story on "Outside the Lines" today. What a scumbag this guy is.

#511 Caspir

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 06:28 PM

Yea, I was floored by the fact that former teammates were going on camera to tell everyone what a dickhead this guy is. I did like the line about bodyguards though. "He doesn't need bodyguards, who does he think he is, Tom Brady?" or something to that effect.

#512 Rocco Graziosa


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Posted 25 April 2010 - 06:42 PM

QUOTE (Caspir @ Apr 25 2010, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yea, I was floored by the fact that former teammates were going on camera to tell everyone what a dickhead this guy is. I did like the line about bodyguards though. "He doesn't need bodyguards, who does he think he is, Tom Brady?" or something to that effect.


If the reports about how his bodyguards conduct themselves and aid his predatory and drunken behavior are true, he needs to get rid of them for his own good.

Its a shame a guy like this has a horseshoe stuck up his ass and continues to be a fucking menace to female members of our society.


#513 Caspir

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 07:30 PM

QUOTE (Rocco Graziosa @ Apr 25 2010, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If the reports about how his bodyguards conduct themselves and aid his predatory and drunken behavior are true, he needs to get rid of them for his own good.

Its a shame a guy like this has a horseshoe stuck up his ass and continues to be a fucking menace to female members of our society.


The reason he hired them to begin with (according to this piece) was because he was messing with a guy's girlfriend, and the guy found out where he was, saw that he wasn't with anyone other than this girl, and put a gun to his head, threatening to kill him if he came near her again. That apparently scared him enough to hire security, but not enough to change his patterns of behavior.

#514 lithos2003

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 03:05 PM

Just found this on another forum and thought it was funny...



#515 bakahump

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 06:01 AM

QUOTE (bakahump @ Apr 12 2010, 09:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe in 5-20 years he will use the "Dchong-Concussion defense" and blame it on the evils of football.

"I, my, brain didn't birds thing that hehe naked anything wrong. Its not my blue wire. Fault. Concussions have caused raining in my brain. Normal thinking not on my table. Made me think its ok to dance in the mud. And rape."



I friggin knew it. I was off by 5 years....but eh....

We Must Save Bens Reputation!

#516 BigSoxFan


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Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:46 PM

Apparently Eminem has included a lyric about Roethlisberger in his newest song called "Despicable".

"I'd rather turn this club into a bar room brawl. Get as rowdy as Roethlisberger in a bathroom stall"

Classic.

#517 jk333

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 06:57 AM

QUOTE (BigSoxFan @ Apr 29 2010, 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Apparently Eminem has included a lyric about Roethlisberger in his newest song called "Despicable".

"I'd rather turn this club into a bar room brawl. Get as rowdy as Roethlisberger in a bathroom stall"
Classic.


Not gonna lie, I just looked this up to hear it in context. Link for those who want to hear it:

Not that good... I'm sure this is just the type of thing that Goodell doesn't want though.

#518 Have A Gansett

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 08:42 PM

You can say a lot of things about Ben Roethlisberger -- that he's dumb, foolish, reckless and may not be the world's number-one gentleman. Hell, he may be a dickhead extraordinaire. But what you CAN'T talk about, it's clear, are things you "know" happened, nonsense like Ben having his goons drag some helpless young drunk girl down a dark hallway, where Ben was waiting to pounce with his junk already out of his pants. It's all BS, and How ANYONE is taking this stuff seriously is beyond me considering all the holes in the drunken sorority girls' stories.

For example, there’s this sad-sounding little song:

Ms. Nicole Biancofiore, the accuser's friend, says the woman "was dragged by a bodyguard to the back room in Capital.” http://www.scrippsne...dragged-accusor

Elsewhere, though, Ms. Biancofiore sings a slightly different tune where she told Milledgeville officers that Barravecchio "placed his hand" on the young accuser's "shoulder and (applied) a little bit of pressure to guide her" to the staff restroom.
http://www.pittsburg...h...=rss&feed=3

Well, which is it, Ms. Biancofiore? Was it a case of your friend practically being kidnapped by Ben's goons, or was it, as you suggest later, just a poor drunk girl being "guided" to the bathroom?

As for the actual accuser, when she first approached a police officer outside the nightclub immediately after the incident, Mr. Bright said, "The police officer asked 'Did he rape you?' And her response was 'No.' Then he asked, 'Did you have sex?' And she said, 'Well, I'm not sure.' http://www.post-gaze.../1049925-66.stm

So she not only denies that Roethlisberger sexually assaulted her -- she didn't even claim they had sexual contact to begin with. A short time later, down at the police station, she changes her story, and claims she did in fact have sex with Roethlisberger, and that he in fact forced himself upon her. Garbage.

The best one though is the whole DNA episode. Forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril H. Wecht, however, said he was "puzzled" that authorities knew the DNA came from a human male but could not profile the sample and compare it to genetic material from Roethlisberger. "You don't need a lot of material," Dr. Wecht said. "If you have enough to identify material and have enough to identify it as male and you're not able to do a DNA profile -- I'm puzzled. I really am puzzled."
http://www.post-gaze.../1049925-66.stm

A scientist at Orchid Cellmark Inc., a company that does genetic testing, agreed with Dr. Wecht. "If a lab is good with their technology, even from very small amounts of DNA, they can get a decent result," said Dr. Rick W. Staub, Orchid Cellmark's forensics laboratory director, scientific operations.
http://www.post-gaze.../1049925-66.stm

So now, we have established not one, but two experts who find the lack of DNA evidence available – given the victim’s claim of sexual assault – rather odd.

For the record, it should now be noted, the accuser has identified the type of sexual contact to have occurred -- "unprotected sex." http://www.thesmokin...lisberger1.html

Well no wonder you are "puzzled," Dr. Wecht -- for if the accuser and Roethlisberger did have sexual intercourse -- unprotected let's all remember -- would not then the alleged victim be a fountain of DNA? And yet, the doctors who examined her after the alleged attack could not find the smallest speck of genetic material from which to base a sample match. How odd - how very, very odd. One would think after contact so alleged a woman would be friggin' flowing with DNA, a veritable Niagara Falls of the stuff. And yet she turns up bone dry, a Gobi Desert. How on God's green earth is this even possible?

In his post-investigation news conference, District Attorney Fred Bright declined to prosecute Roethlisberger because he could not prove a rape happened "beyond a reasonable doubt." I believe he knew the likely falsehood of the alleged victim's claim the whole friggin' time -- but rather than scold HER for slinging a false accusation, he chose to go after Roethlisberger's character instead -- a much safer and more politically correct move. That is perhaps what's most disappointing of all. Far from being "Milledgeville CSI," what we had here was "Milledgeville, BS." Sorry, Mr. Bright, but looks to me like you went after the wrong "victim" here.

Unfortunately, though, this kind of juicy story is what sells, compounded by the fact that Roethlisberger has decided to clam up in the hopes of having the thing blow over sooner. Which only adds to the "credibility" of the accuser's story. Also, he has the crap from Nevada hanging over his head where a nutjob by the name of Andrea McNulty is suing his over a similar incident in a hotel room, but for some reason, this same woman chose to brag to her friends about the encounter and waited an entire year before bringing suit. Of course, the less informed more feeble of mind would claim "well where there's smoke, there's fire."

#519 MannyBeingHammy

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 01:23 AM

Good to know Roethlisberger's attorney posts here.

#520 CaptainLaddie


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Posted 01 May 2010 - 02:13 AM

QUOTE (jk333 @ Apr 30 2010, 07:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not gonna lie, I just looked this up to hear it in context. Link for those who want to hear it:

Not that good... I'm sure this is just the type of thing that Goodell doesn't want though.

Not to make this a hip hop discussion, but WHAT?! This is Em's best work in a minute.

#521 MarcSullivaFan

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 10:17 AM

QUOTE (Have A Gansett @ Apr 30 2010, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You can say a lot of things about Ben Roethlisberger -- that he's dumb, foolish, reckless and may not be the world's number-one gentleman. Hell, he may be a dickhead extraordinaire. But what you CAN'T talk about, it's clear, are things you "know" happened, nonsense like Ben having his goons drag some helpless young drunk girl down a dark hallway, where Ben was waiting to pounce with his junk already out of his pants. It's all BS, and How ANYONE is taking this stuff seriously is beyond me considering all the holes in the drunken sorority girls' stories.


So what's your explanation for Ben lying to the police immediately after the incident?

See http://www.thesmokin...lisberger5.html

Also, there's no dispute that some form of "sexual contact" occured between the two. R admitted to it.

See http://www.cbsnews.c...in6288469.shtml

Edit: Cut down giant-ass quote and added sources.

Edited by MarcSullivaFan, 01 May 2010 - 12:29 PM.


#522 Caspir

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 07:40 PM

QUOTE (CaptainLaddie @ May 1 2010, 03:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not to make this a hip hop discussion, but WHAT?! This is Em's best work in a minute.


OT: No shit. I don't even like him that much, but he hasn't been that nice in a long time.

I hope Ben gets concussed multiple times this season, and live his life out as a vegetable. (To keep with the topic)

#523 czar


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Posted 05 May 2010 - 12:13 PM

SI's Jack McCallum pens "The Hangover: Roethlisberger"

#524 Have A Gansett

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 12:18 PM

QUOTE (czar @ May 5 2010, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah, I think it's been established a long time ago the guy's an a-hole. MSM can't get enough of beating a dead horse.

#525 Have A Gansett

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 12:19 PM

QUOTE (MarcSullivaFan @ May 1 2010, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So what's your explanation for Ben lying to the police immediately after the incident?


He was an inebriated idiot.




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