524 replies to this topic

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

http://www.tmz.com/2...sexual-assault/


Doh!

[Titoschew]

Never understood the star athlete who can get any box he wants turning to rape/sexual assault (allegedly, of course...)

[sleepyjose03]

Can we get a quick overview for those of us at work or unwilling to visit the TMZ website?

[nayrbrey]

The first thing that popped in my head is why was he in Milledgeville, GA? (other than the hotness factor of said victim)
Any of SoSH's Georgia contingent shed any light on that area, seems that its in the middle of nowhere SE of Atlanta between Macon and Athens.

From the Article:
Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has been accused of sexual assault by a young woman in Georgia, TMZ has learned.
The alleged incident occurred early this morning at Capital City -- a club in Milledgeville, Georgia.
According to law enforcement sources, the alleged victim -- who has already been interviewed by police -- was treated at a local hospital and released.

Edited by nayrbrey, 05 March 2010 - 03:47 PM.

[JulE6]

Wonder how long it will take ESPN to sweep this one under the rug

[SeoulSoxFan]

Never understood the star athlete who can get any box he wants turning to rape/sexual assault (allegedly, of course...)

I see that as... "get any box he wants AND turning to rape/sexual assault BECAUSE they are the star athlete." NFL off-season has not really started until we hear from Big Ben now can't we?

[Titoschew]

Can we get a quick overview for those of us at work or unwilling to visit the TMZ website?

Basically, he was at a night club in GA, allegedly sexually assaulted a woman. Woman has spoken with cops, witnesses have been interviewed, and the cops want to talk to Ben. The Steelers say they are gathering information on the incident.

[Titoschew]

I see that as... "get any box he wants AND turning to rape/sexual assault BECAUSE they are the star athlete." NFL off-season has not really started until we hear from Big Ben now can't we?

Well said. An angle I was not thinking of...

[Paradigm]

Every year, something with Ben. Very unlikeable athlete.

[mt8thsw9th]

Sad story either way. Obviously if he's guilty, or if she sobered up a little and remembered she has a boyfriend. I don't know why athletes even go into public when they're always going to be targets. Conversely, I don't know why a woman would get that close to Roethlisberger knowing his history of being a douche.

What the hell is he doing in a club in podunk, GA, anyway?

[Buster Olney the Lonely]

The first thing that popped in my head is why was he in Milledgeville, GA? (other than the hotness factor of said victim)
Any of SoSH's Georgia contingent shed any light on that area, seems that its in the middle of nowhere SE of Atlanta between Macon and Athens.

He was at a Flannery O'Connor fan convention? *shrug*

[Joe D Reid]

He was at a Flannery O'Connor fan convention? *shrug*

Did the girl have a wooden leg?

[Joey Slugs]

My thoughts on the first two accusations (which I'm sue I'm not the only one to think this): Ben and the girl hooked up the first time and then the following year he wanted nothing to do with her so she claimed that he assaulted her. The case was dropped.

This time around? No idea. Can't be good no matter what comes out of this...

[ragnarok725]

Sad story either way. Obviously if he's guilty, or if she sobered up a little and remembered she has a boyfriend. I don't know why athletes even go into public when they're always going to be targets. Conversely, I don't know why a woman would get that close to Roethlisberger knowing his history of being a douche.

What the hell is he doing in a club in podunk, GA, anyway?

How many casual fans, much less other people who don't follow football, would know this?

[DukeSox]

Sweet club, Ben.

http://www.capitalci....com/index.html

http://www.clubratin...ngs.jsp?tid=335

[nayrbrey]

Podunk Paper

Funny as the Flannery O'Connor convention angle is, it appears he has a home on a lake nearby:

Roethlisberger owns a home on nearby Lake Oconee, which is located roughly 30 minutes north of downtown Milledgeville.

[Al Zarilla]

I wonder what the Steelers of the squeaky clean Rooneys reputation are thinking. Still, "just" one dropped and one alleged charge so far.

[FelixMantilla]

Ben has gotta be one of the ugliest guys in all of sports.

[Spacemans Bong]

Podunk Paper

Funny as the Flannery O'Connor convention angle is, it appears he has a home on a lake nearby:

How the fuck does a guy from Ohio who plays in the Burgh gain a home in rural Georgia?

[dcmissle]

Wonder how long it will take ESPN to sweep this one under the rug

Remarkable transformation -- they are all over this. Just had Roger Cossack on ESPN news saying that Ben is really going to take a big hit whether he's in legal jeopardy or not. And on the Deuce, they had Rachel Nichols of all people leading with it.

[Rough Carrigan]

Ben has gotta be one of the ugliest guys in all of sports.

Have he and Lackey ever been seen in the same room at the same time?

[Hendu's Gait]

How the fuck does a guy from Ohio who plays in the Burgh gain a home in rural Georgia?

Hines Ward told him the ladies are prettier.

[BoredViewer]

Sweet club, Ben.

http://www.capitalci....com/index.html

http://www.clubratin...ngs.jsp?tid=335

18+!

[luckysox]

I'm a little surprised that Big Ben hasn't gotten as much scorn from this site as Tiger. I'm trying to figure out how people can be more indignant about a guy who simply cheats on his wife vs. a guy with a second sexual assault accusation in a year. Rape is real a whole lot of the time...yet it seems like people (not just people here on SOSH, but in general) just want to blame it on women making up some story to extort money from celebs/athletes.

Is it because of Tiger's reputation and how he has marketed himself to the world as squeaky clean and almost "perfect"? I'm serious...really trying to figure it out.

[FelixMantilla]

I think it's pretty simple. The first "incident" was not believable. And I don't think charges were ever filed.

It remains to be seen what the effect of this one will be.

Edited by FelixMantilla, 06 March 2010 - 12:40 AM.

[Titoschew]

I'm a little surprised that Big Ben hasn't gotten as much scorn from this site as Tiger. I'm trying to figure out how people can be more indignant about a guy who simply cheats on his wife vs. a guy with a second sexual assault accusation in a year. Rape is real a whole lot of the time...yet it seems like people (not just people here on SOSH, but in general) just want to blame it on women making up some story to extort money from celebs/athletes.

Is it because of Tiger's reputation and how he has marketed himself to the world as squeaky clean and almost "perfect"? I'm serious...really trying to figure it out.

Maybe because an accusation is just that, an accusation. Sure, there is usually part truth to most stories, but it's he said, she said, who the hell are you going to believe until you know more facts? If the situation was reverse and this was you, wouldn't you want people to with hold judgment until the facts were more clear?
I think people understand the serious nature of sexual assault and treat it as such. You can't come right out and throw fire at the accused because that's a pretty serious stigma to attach to someone without them being shown to be guilty.

Cheating on your wife is a moral crime of sorts, and the burden of proof is much less because it's not a crime. When it's clear (like in Tiger's case), add in the world wide celebrity aspect and you have an easy target for scorn. I'm sure being tagged as a serial cheater sucks, but I'm sure it's no where near as severe or harmful as being labeled a rapist.

If he's proven to be guilty then he deserves anything that comes his way. But, even though you say "rape is real a whole lot of the time", there are plenty of times where it's not real. Why rip someone apart unless you know or believe it's valid. There's no way you can make that judgment right now.

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

I'm a little surprised that Big Ben hasn't gotten as much scorn from this site as Tiger. I'm trying to figure out how people can be more indignant about a guy who simply cheats on his wife vs. a guy with a second sexual assault accusation in a year. Rape is real a whole lot of the time...yet it seems like people (not just people here on SOSH, but in general) just want to blame it on women making up some story to extort money from celebs/athletes.

Is it because of Tiger's reputation and how he has marketed himself to the world as squeaky clean and almost "perfect"? I'm serious...really trying to figure it out.

I agree with you. I think this is shitty and worse than what Tiger did.

Folks can say all they want about "it may not be true" et al, but remember Ben Inc. have a lot of money they can throw at women who come out of the woodwork. Is he a rapist? I can't say with certainty. Is he a guy who clearly doesn't handle alcohol and women at all well? Big fucking time. And that is pretty condemning. I hope he gets his head crushed in this season.

[TeddyBallgame'sDirtbagSon]

If I were Big Ben I would have found a hotter girl to assault....


Da Lucky Girl/Victim

[tim mccarver]

If I were Big Ben I would have found a hotter girl to assault....


Da Lucky Girl/Victim

http://www.totalpros...a-mcnulty-2.jpg

ugh they sort of look alike

[PaulinMyrBch]

Those girls don't look smart enough to make up an assault story.

[luckysox]

Maybe because an accusation is just that, an accusation. Sure, there is usually part truth to most stories, but it's he said, she said, who the hell are you going to believe until you know more facts? If the situation was reverse and this was you, wouldn't you want people to with hold judgment until the facts were more clear?
I think people understand the serious nature of sexual assault and treat it as such. You can't come right out and throw fire at the accused because that's a pretty serious stigma to attach to someone without them being shown to be guilty.

Cheating on your wife is a moral crime of sorts, and the burden of proof is much less because it's not a crime. When it's clear (like in Tiger's case), add in the world wide celebrity aspect and you have an easy target for scorn. I'm sure being tagged as a serial cheater sucks, but I'm sure it's no where near as severe or harmful as being labeled a rapist.

If he's proven to be guilty then he deserves anything that comes his way. But, even though you say "rape is real a whole lot of the time", there are plenty of times where it's not real. Why rip someone apart unless you know or believe it's valid. There's no way you can make that judgment right now.

The latest FBI estimates say that , most likely, false accusations of rape account for only 20-25% of all reported sexual assaults. So 75-80% of accusations prove to be true. When two different women in different places accuse the same powerful, rich, connected and insulated man of rape, I'd expect a little bit more condemnation of that man, less making fun of the woman, and more anger directed at him than at another powerful, rich, connected and insulated man who is found to be cheating on his wife, not raping her, or anyone else. I am not saying throw Ben in jail and cut off his nuts (yet); I am simply surprised at the level of shit that Tiger has gotten from the morality police for cheating on his wife (and I'm sure none of said morality police have ever, ever been unfaithful), and the contrasting ho-hum reaction to this story, the second of it's kind for Ben this year.

[Buffalo Head]

Remarkable transformation -- they are all over this. Just had Roger Cossack on ESPN news saying that Ben is really going to take a big hit whether he's in legal jeopardy or not. And on the Deuce, they had Rachel Nichols of all people leading with it.

Not that remarkable, really. ABC/Disney doesn't have a show starring Big Ben coming up on the horizon this time.

[thestardawg]

Not that this is right in itself, but sexual assault could have simply been a drunken Ben grabbing the girls ass.

Not that it's right. But it's certainly not up to the level of rape

[SoFloSoxFan]

I am simply surprised at the level of shit that Tiger has gotten from the morality police for cheating on his wife (and I'm sure none of said morality police have ever, ever been unfaithful), and the contrasting ho-hum reaction to this story, the second of it's kind for Ben this year.

People are accused of sexual assault every day, and they are not stories. The only thing that makes this a story is the inclusion of a "celebrity". Tiger Woods is as big a celebrity in every corner of the world as Big Ben is in downtown Pittsburgh. So as far as how the story is covered by the media, thats the difference.

As far as how its handled as SOSH, it's simply as was stated before: "Rapist" is a cat that's not going back into the bag. People are going to be a lot more careful about applying that label to someone than they are about someone who cheated on his wife.

[drleather2001]

Not that this is right in itself, but sexual assault could have simply been a drunken Ben grabbing the girls ass.

Not that it's right. But it's certainly not up to the level of rape

Yea, you're right. We should just leave him alone unless someone can come up with a more salacious, completely random and arbitrary hypothetical.

[Maalox]

The latest FBI estimates say that , most likely, false accusations of rape account for only 20-25% of all reported sexual assaults. So 75-80% of accusations prove to be true.

Past FBI estimates, and much criticised studies, have put the percentage of false rape accusations anywhere from virtually zero to more than half. So 20-25% is certainly plausible. But that number tells us almost nothing.

Any idea what percentage of these false accusations are based on mistaken identity and what percentage of them are based on elements of the crime not being present? Some women really are raped, and they get the identity of the person wrong. That's a false accusation. Some other women are not raped, and accuse the "right" person of something which did not happen or which is not rape. This is also a false accusation. What percentage of these 20-25% of false accusations fit into which category? I should think that 20-25% of accusations being false with regard to elements of the crime, if correct, would be an astronomically high percentage of false accusations relative to other crimes in which the falsity of the accusation is in regard to an element of the crime.

When two different women in different places accuse the same powerful, rich, connected and insulated man of rape, I'd expect a little bit more condemnation of that man, less making fun of the woman, and more anger directed at him than at another powerful, rich, connected and insulated man who is found to be cheating on his wife, not raping her, or anyone else. I am not saying throw Ben in jail and cut off his nuts (yet); I am simply surprised at the level of shit that Tiger has gotten from the morality police for cheating on his wife (and I'm sure none of said morality police have ever, ever been unfaithful), and the contrasting ho-hum reaction to this story, the second of it's kind for Ben this year.

Again, we get to the nature of the accusation and whether its potential falsity would be with regard to in the identity of the actor or the elements of the crime. I'm intrigued by your presupposition that merely being accused of a crime ought to prompt any particular amount of anger at all, let alone a particular level thereof relative to accusations of other acts. The proximity of the two accusations against Roethlisberger to each other is just as probative of the likelihood that publicity made him a target of opportunity for false accusation as that it made the second event more likely to have occurred - in fact moreso, as the prior accusation would be inadmissible as substantive evidence of the latter alleged incident in a trial as to the latter accusation.

In any case, percentages of false accusations are not really relevant. The rate of accuracy or falsity of each of the accusations against Roethlisberger is 100%, and the fact that some proportion of all the accusations of rape in a particular estimate are false has a 0% chance of altering the factual accuracy of this accusation a single percentage point. It's pretty clear where you come down on the truth of these accusations, but you are conflating the likelihood of truth or falsity (which, again, is 100%) with the likelihood that you, me or a random person has guessed that truth or falsity correctly. Two different things.

[Bob420]

"The woman, treated and released from Oconee Regional Medical Center, described her attacker as 6-foot-5, and 241 pounds, though she did not name Roethlisberger, who just turned 28, as the perpetrator."

Sounds to me like she looked up his espn.com profile before making the accusation. Seriously? She said he was 6-foot-5, and 241 pounds? That is kind of silly.

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

The latest FBI estimates say that , most likely, false accusations of rape account for only 20-25% of all reported sexual assaults. So 75-80% of accusations prove to be true. When two different women in different places accuse the same powerful, rich, connected and insulated man of rape, I'd expect a little bit more condemnation of that man, less making fun of the woman, and more anger directed at him than at another powerful, rich, connected and insulated man who is found to be cheating on his wife, not raping her, or anyone else.

From a purely statistical perspective, Roethlisberger's celebrity will skew that data. His money, prior allegations against him and his lifestyle make him a huge target.

Your use of "powerful, rich, connected and insulated" indicates a certain bias. How should a rich man react when accused of rape? How should the judicial system treat the accusation? If you are arguing that the jury system is hopelessly flawed, pointing to what Johnnie Cochran could do for a rich, powerful, connected and insulated man accused of murder, I'm on board. The jury system is a mess.

I have no idea whether Roethlisberger did anything wrong. I do know that celebrities are constantly subject to a scrutiny and risk the rest of us don't face. I haven't yet formed an opinion as to whether this girl is believable. Odds are good I never will.

[thestardawg]

Yea, you're right. We should just leave him alone unless someone can come up with a more salacious, completely random and arbitrary hypothetical.

Yes.

That's EXACTLY what I said.

Rock Over London. Rock On Chicago.

Conclusions. Uh-Huh

Edited by thestardawg, 07 March 2010 - 12:52 PM.

[drleather2001]

Yes.

That's EXACTLY what I said.

Rock Over London. Rock On Chicago.

Conclusions. Uh-Huh

Stop giving me a hellride.

I apologize for being overly acrid in my response. My point is that, given that the woman was treated in a medical facility, it's likely something more serious than getting involved in a little unwelcome grab ass. Just as it's not "justice" to convict Ben in the court of public opinion on the basis of an allegation alone, I think it's irresponsible to suggest that this is likely merely a woman who's looking for attention. It could be, but there's no evidence to suggest that. Yet, anyway.

I mean, GA's sexual assault laws encompass incest. It could have been that Ben fucked his sister.

Edited by drleather2001, 07 March 2010 - 01:10 PM.

[DegenerateSoxFan]

My point is that, given that the woman was treated in a medical facility, it's likely something more serious than getting involved in a little unwelcome grab ass.

I have defended several of these cases and "treated at a medical facility" can mean merely providing evidence in the form of a rape kit, the primary purpose of which is to collect DNA.

False accusations do happen, and for a variety of reasons. I had a case where the girl cried rape to save face when she was found to have been screwing someone other than her boyfriend. The first big major piece of evidence was in the medical records which showed no injuries whatsoever when she was "treated." A little investigative digging showed that it wasn't the first time she'd falsely cried rape/molestation (the case was dropped shortly thereafter when the prosecutor had a heart to heart with the girl's father & boyfriend).

That said, there's absolutely no way that anyone should be making any assumptions on this one. It's a s^&%%y situtation either way. If it was a false accusation, he's still going to be tarred with it. If he's a predator, and a repeat offender, well...

Edited by DegenerateSoxFan, 07 March 2010 - 02:42 PM.

[luckysox]

Past FBI estimates, and much criticised studies, have put the percentage of false rape accusations anywhere from virtually zero to more than half. So 20-25% is certainly plausible. But that number tells us almost nothing.

Any idea what percentage of these false accusations are based on mistaken identity and what percentage of them are based on elements of the crime not being present? Some women really are raped, and they get the identity of the person wrong. That's a false accusation. Some other women are not raped, and accuse the "right" person of something which did not happen or which is not rape. This is also a false accusation. What percentage of these 20-25% of false accusations fit into which category? I should think that 20-25% of accusations being false with regard to elements of the crime, if correct, would be an astronomically high percentage of false accusations relative to other crimes in which the falsity of the accusation is in regard to an element of the crime.

Again, we get to the nature of the accusation and whether its potential falsity would be with regard to in the identity of the actor or the elements of the crime. I'm intrigued by your presupposition that merely being accused of a crime ought to prompt any particular amount of anger at all, let alone a particular level thereof relative to accusations of other acts. The proximity of the two accusations against Roethlisberger to each other is just as probative of the likelihood that publicity made him a target of opportunity for false accusation as that it made the second event more likely to have occurred - in fact moreso, as the prior accusation would be inadmissible as substantive evidence of the latter alleged incident in a trial as to the latter accusation.

In any case, percentages of false accusations are not really relevant. The rate of accuracy or falsity of each of the accusations against Roethlisberger is 100%, and the fact that some proportion of all the accusations of rape in a particular estimate are false has a 0% chance of altering the factual accuracy of this accusation a single percentage point. It's pretty clear where you come down on the truth of these accusations, but you are conflating the likelihood of truth or falsity (which, again, is 100%) with the likelihood that you, me or a random person has guessed that truth or falsity correctly. Two different things.

You are right in many ways wth this response...I diagree, however, with the statement that percentages of false accusations are not relevant. I can't tell you how many times I have read or heard, in the past few days, that "Women make this shit up all the time. No way Ben raped her - she's just looking for money." These statements matter because they lead people to think that women do indeed make this stuff up "all the time". And that is dangerous for the women who actually are assaulted, or raped, and who then have a much more difficult time during reporting and/or prosecution. They hear things like "Come on honey, are you sure you didn't make him think you wanted it somehow?" (especially if it was Ben Rothliesberger) They answer standard questions like, "What did you expect in a skirt that short?" and "Why were you walking home alone at 2 a.m.?" I know this from experience. I am not making it up, assuming it, or presupposing it. It is what happens. Not in every case, but enough that it discorages victims from reporting. It discouraged me from reporting my own rape 15 years ago. And the less women report, the more women will be raped. It is that simple.

Whatever. I guess I am touchy because of my own experiences, and those of other women that I know. I'm not saying we lock him up yet...I'm just surprised at some of the tone in this thread that suggests it is much mroe likely that she made it up than he did it. Maybe she did make it up. But I think that to assume that she did make it up, or to chat that angle up, makes this world a less safe place for women. That's just me. And I guess I am also genrally amazed at the level of hatred that Tiger has gotten on this board for his freaking personal life, which involved no accusations of crimes committed (at least not by him). The two things together just rubbed me the wrong way. If this offends, my apologies.

[DannyDarwinism]

The proximity of the two accusations against Roethlisberger to each other is just as probative of the likelihood that publicity made him a target of opportunity for false accusation as that it made the second event more likely to have occurred - in fact moreso, as the prior accusation would be inadmissible as substantive evidence of the latter alleged incident in a trial as to the latter accusation.

While I agree wholeheartedly with the first part of this, evidence of similar crimes of sexual assault are admissible in federal court under FRE 413, and under the "lustful disposition" exception in Georgia state law as well. It's a logically tenuous exception that is inconsistent with the rest of the rules on character evidence and it does nothing to undercut anything you've stated, but it's the law. Perversely, this exception may give even more incentive to this woman to fabricate an incident, since an admission of the prior accusation (no conviction or formal charge necessary, but a balancing test still required) would bolster her case and put more pressure on Ben to pay her off. Something tells me this girl isn't quite that savvy, but she certainly could have known about Ben's recent public troubles and decided to try and capitalize.

[bowiac]

And I guess I am also genrally amazed at the level of hatred that Tiger has gotten on this board for his freaking personal life, which involved no accusations of crimes committed (at least not by him). The two things together just rubbed me the wrong way. If this offends, my apologies.

Is there really that much hatred of Tiger on this board? It seems like SoSH has fallen largely into the "this whole thing is stupid" camp...

[JAF1970]

Why did Big Ben have a VIP room with only him, his bodyguard and another Steelers, with only women allowed in - and not 3 or 4, but 20+ coming in and out in minigroups.

[JohnnyTheBone]

Why did Big Ben have a VIP room with only him, his bodyguard and another Steelers, with only women allowed in - and not 3 or 4, but 20+ coming in and out in minigroups.

Because he could?

[mt8thsw9th]

"The woman, treated and released from Oconee Regional Medical Center, described her attacker as 6-foot-5, and 241 pounds, though she did not name Roethlisberger, who just turned 28, as the perpetrator."

Sounds to me like she looked up his espn.com profile before making the accusation. Seriously? She said he was 6-foot-5, and 241 pounds? That is kind of silly.

Perhaps she works at a carnival guessing heights and weights?

[JAF1970]

Because he could?

Is his penis really that tiny?

He also CAN ride a motorcycle without a helmet.

He also CAN go to a nightclub with a loaded pistol.

He also CAN have unprotected sex.

This is like someone building their house next to a volcano and be surprised when there's lava flowing through their living room.

[Mystic Merlin]

This is like someone building their house next to a volcano and be surprised when there's lava flowing through their living room.

George Carlin?

[Preacher]

I have defended several of these cases and "treated at a medical facility" can mean merely providing evidence in the form of a rape kit, the primary purpose of which is to collect DNA.

False accusations do happen, and for a variety of reasons. I had a case where the girl cried rape to save face when she was found to have been screwing someone other than her boyfriend. The first big major piece of evidence was in the medical records which showed no injuries whatsoever when she was "treated." A little investigative digging showed that it wasn't the first time she'd falsely cried rape/molestation (the case was dropped shortly thereafter when the prosecutor had a heart to heart with the girl's father & boyfriend).

That said, there's absolutely no way that anyone should be making any assumptions on this one. It's a s^&%%y situtation either way. If it was a false accusation, he's still going to be tarred with it. If he's a predator, and a repeat offender, well...

Not to be picky but "no injuries" found from a SANE exam is not necessarily inconsistent with rape, in the same way injuries are not necessarily consistent with rape. Similar injuries can occur from rough sex. A lot of it depends on the thoroughness of the exam. Injuries are much more likely to be discovered if a colposcope is used but many rural areas don't use these for SANE exams due to price. I just think it's annoying when people assume that no injuries = no rape. It might be a factor but it's not the be all end all.