117 replies to this topic

[BGrif21125]

If we're making cross-sport comparisons, I've always felt Floyd was more of a Tim Duncan, as opposed to a Pedro.

Like Duncan, Floyd is technically brilliant, tough, smart, composed, competitive, etc. And like Duncan, many of the things he does are the types of things that are lost on the casual fan but appreciated by the purist. How many casual NBA fans love watching Tim Duncan? Could anyone here list the 5 most spectacular games of Tim Duncan's career? But anyone who knows basketball realizes that Duncan is an all-time great player and a winner. And anyone who knows boxing realizes Floyd is one of the best fighters of the past ~30 years.

The difference, of course, is that Duncan is a Zero in the personality department and therefore has never become a mainstream star. Whereas Floyd, realizing his fighting style isn't the type that will draw the casual fan, has used his mouth to crossover into the mainstream and become the type of PPV star that guys like Roy Jones, Pernell Whitaker, Lennox Lewis, Bernard Hopkins and Shane Mosley never became.

It'll be interesting to see how the next round of Floyd-Manny negotations start off. I mean, at this point, there is literally NO ONE else out there that either of these guys could view as a legitimate opponent. They've shown themselves to be so much better than everyone else that they're basically forced to fight each other.

[teddykgb]

I think Mosley has been down once in his career, so the odds of him getting knocked out are basically nil.

Mayweather will win a decision. Like the Floyd-Oscar fight, it'll probably be a whitewash with the judges giving a few rounds to Shane out of professional courtesy. Watching Mosley's fight against Margarito again recently, it's simply stunning how easy Margarito is to hit. He stood in the pocket, leaning forward, with no head movement or feints whatsoever. Basically the tailor-made opponent for an old fighter.

Fighting Floyd Mayweather will be like a different sport. When Shane fought Cotto, it was mostly even as long as they were brawling. When Cotto decided to box, Shane couldn't keep up any more. Floyd won't wait 8 rounds to start boxing.

Seems like an incredibly accurate prediction.

[BGrif21125]

This is why non-KO boxing sucks.

A bit of an overstatement.

Sure, nothing matches the instant drama of a KO, but we could all list plenty of great fights that went to the scorecards.

[Sille Skrub]

It'll be interesting to see how the next round of Floyd-Manny negotations start off.

This fight is never going to happen. Floyd is too insistent on trying to change the rules of boxing while Pac is too superstitious to agree to these silly demands. I don't blame either of them. If I'm Pac, I wouldn't let Mayweather dictate the terms of the fight and if I'm Mayweather, I wouldn't want any part of Pacquiao.

It's a shame. Boxing really needs this fight, but life will go on. Pacquiao will continue to be the best pound-for-pound boxer in the sport and Mayweather will retire (again) with his precious undefeated record without an actual win over a great boxer in his prime.

[ElUno20]

The fight won't happen because that big mouth Freddie Roach isn't stupid. Him and Arum have crafted this Pacmania perfectly by putting him in against guys suited to make him look like a superhuman force. Andre Berto is about to get rich, no doubt in my mind that's who they'll target next.

The "this is why boxing scoring sucks, Shane hurt him in the 2nd and but now is completely out of the fight" is hilarious. "Hey, we lost by 30 points but remember that 10-0 run we had for a five minute stretch in the 2nd quarter? We should be in a tie game right now because of that"

[Naehring11]

I think the only challenge for Floyd at welterweight is Paul Williams. I just don't see Pacquiao having any shot at winning. He's too small and gets hit too easily. Pacquiao thrives on fighting bigger, slower, stationary fighters. I'd rather see Pacquiao fight Marquez again.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

The fight won't happen because that big mouth Freddie Roach isn't stupid. Him and Arum have crafted this Pacmania perfectly by putting him in against guys suited to make him look like a superhuman force. Andre Berto is about to get rich, no doubt in my mind that's who they'll target next.

The "this is why boxing scoring sucks, Shane hurt him in the 2nd and but now is completely out of the fight" is hilarious. "Hey, we lost by 30 points but remember that 10-0 run we had for a five minute stretch in the 2nd quarter? We should be in a tie game right now because of that"

Don't be shocked to see Manny taking on Antonio Margarito in his next fight. Arum loves the self-contained promotion and it allows him to cash out on Marg once and for all.

[mclusky]

Pac is too superstitious to agree to these silly demands.

Sure, he's superstitious of getting exposed. That's just like my superstition about wearing pants to work.

One post-event thought I can't avoid: it's time for Larry Merchant to be put out to pasture. After boxing for 12 rounds, Mayweather was more lucid and on point than Merchant in their post-fight interview. Larry tried to frame the question of Pacquiao's refusal to take a drug test as if it were some kind of wacky demand on Mayweather's part. But Floyd stuck to his guns.

I don't fault the Manny Pacquaio fans like the poster above for wanting to put their heads in the sand -- I've been there. But it's shameful and totally ludicrous for boxing journalists to pretend like there's nothing to see here, after everything we've seen in other sports.

[ElUno20]

Don't be shocked to see Manny taking on Antonio Margarito in his next fight. Arum loves the self-contained promotion and it allows him to cash out on Marg once and for all.

I forgot about old Tony. He's perfect. Straight up, no speed, and a human punching bag. However, he does have a big ass head and it's possible Manny might hurt his hand and be unable to hold the mic during his singing performance after the fight.

[FelixMantilla]

I don't fault the Manny Pacquaio fans like the poster above for wanting to put their heads in the sand -- I've been there. But it's shameful and totally ludicrous for boxing journalists to pretend like there's nothing to see here, after everything we've seen in other sports.

Mosley and Mayweather underwent blood testing for their fight, an issue that threatens to derail future negotiations between Mayweather and Pacquiao, the way it did previously.

“It wouldn’t be good for boxing,” Arum said. “Obviously, these two guys need to fight each other. That being said, it takes two to tango.”

The Fight for a Fight Between Pacquiao and Mayweather
Okay, why wouldn't it be "good for boxing?"

Edited by FelixMantilla, 03 May 2010 - 09:05 AM.

[TomRicardo]

The Fight for a Fight Between Pacquiao and Mayweather
Okay, why wouldn't it be "good for boxing?"

The sport is on its last gasping breath. Crap most Americans couldn't even name the Heavyweight champion. Exposing the amount of people in boxing probably using substances would be the death blow.

Oh and Skrubby Poo (our pillow talk name) Mayweather would wipe the floor Pacquiao right now. The best thing for Manny to do is hold off on that massive pay day as long as possible and hope that Mayweather losses a step or two. This is probably going to be last great fight and probably won't go three. Why not sit and wait on it?

Edited by TomRicardo, 03 May 2010 - 10:04 AM.

[BGrif21125]

The sport is on its last gasping breath. Crap most Americans couldn't even name the Heavyweight champion. Exposing the amount of people in boxing probably using substances would be the death blow.

In terms of US popularity, the sport isn't what it was in past eras (and never will be again), but it's hardly dying. In fact, the last several years have featured many of the highest PPV figures and live attendance figures of the modern era. And it's a tremendously popular sport globally.

Sure, the heavyweight champion is anonymous to most Americans, but the welterweight champion isn't. The heavyweight division sucks, there's no doubt about that, but in the end it's one division out of many.

And plenty of fighters have already been exposed in regards to PEDs. Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones, Fernando Vargas, Shane Mosley, James Toney, the Klitschko brothers... all these guys have been involved in PED scandals in one form or another over the last decade. PED use doesn't cause the same stir among fans as it has in baseball. Just like very few people seem to care about PED use in the NFL.

People have been saying for years that boxing is one death blow away from losing all its relevancy, but it's just not true. There will always be a significant amount of people who want to watch 2 top athletes in a ring. If corruption or cheating could kill boxing as a sport, it would've happened a long long time ago.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

In terms of US popularity, the sport isn't what it was in past eras (and never will be again), but it's hardly dying. In fact, the last several years have featured many of the highest PPV figures and live attendance figures of the modern era. And it's a tremendously popular sport globally.

Sure, the heavyweight champion is anonymous to most Americans, but the welterweight champion isn't. The heavyweight division sucks, there's no doubt about that, but in the end it's one division out of many.

And plenty of fighters have already been exposed in regards to PEDs. Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones, Fernando Vargas, Shane Mosley, James Toney, the Klitschko brothers... all these guys have been involved in PED scandals in one form or another over the last decade. PED use doesn't cause the same stir among fans as it has in baseball. Just like very few people seem to care about PED use in the NFL.

People have been saying for years that boxing is one death blow away from losing all its relevancy, but it's just not true. There will always be a significant amount of people who want to watch 2 top athletes in a ring. If corruption or cheating could kill boxing as a sport, it would've happened a long long time ago.

Yeah, I'd hoped we were past the "boxing is a dying sport" thing once and for all, but I guess some media clichés just won't go away. Of course times have changed in many ways, and the days when boxing was second only to baseball as America's national sport are decades in the past, never to return. But boxing, especially in the last year or three, has proven that it has its place on the national sports landscape and its footing is solid.

It's a star-driven sport, of course, so when you have a Tyson, then a De La Hoya, then a Mayweather or a Pacquiao on the scene, the attention on boxing goes up. But the fact is, it still has a strong fan base as evidenced by the hundreds of thousands of people who shell out 50 bucks (or more) for the PPV fights even during a recession. And it's still a very lucrative sport at the top levels. Shane Mosley, the B-side of Saturday's fight, was guaranteed $7 million plus a share of the PPV revenue, which will probably bring his total purse to $10-12 million. Not a bad payday. Even a Kelly Pavlik-level fighter will receive between $1 and 2 million for an HBO World Championship Boxing appearance.

A steroid scandal or two isn't going to change that. If Manny Pacquiao proved to be a PED user, it would hurt Manny Pacquiao, but boxing will keep right on going.

Edited by Gene Conleys Plane Ticket, 03 May 2010 - 01:45 PM.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

And on the subject of whether boxing is dying, if 1.2 million PPV buys is considered a "failure," I'd say boxing is in pretty good shape.

Veteran boxing scribe Kevin Iole of Yahoo Sports was advised by "good sources" that last Saturday's HBO pay-per-view featuring Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Shane Mosley generated an early buyrate figure of around 1.1 to 1.2 million, which is not much higher than the 1 million buys generated by Mayweather's pay-per-view with Juan Manuel Marquez last September.

If the buyrate number stands true, it's a very good number, but many industry insiders will consider it a failure. Mayweather-Mosley was the most hyped and advertised pay-per-view in the history of the sport. Mayweather had the best possible B-side opponent that money could buy, outside of Manny Pacquiao, and the expections by Golden Boy Promotions was a buyrate figure in the millions.

Last week, Golden Boy CEO Richard Schaefer had predicted a possible figure of 4 million buys. Nobody took that figure serious. Most insiders predicted a buyrate number in the realm of 1.5-1.6 million. Mosley was viewed as a serious threat and certainly one of the most recognizable names in the entire sport. It's going to be interesting when the final buyrate number comes down and how it affects the future negotiations to make a fight with Pacquiao.

Mayweather himself had predicted some record breaking numbers. He was going to use the buyrate figure as muscle to demand a higher split of the money against Pacquiao, but if the numbers stay below 1.5, it's going to be hard for Mayweather to make such a demand.

Even if the number exceeds expectations, a good argument can be made that Pacquiao could have generated over a million buys against Mosley, and Mayweather would have had a hard time generating over 700,000 buys with Clottey as the B-side, which Pacquiao was able to accomplish in March.

[Naehring11]

And on the subject of whether boxing is dying, if 1.2 million PPV buys is considered a "failure," I'd say boxing is in pretty good shape.

I don't get this article. Just because a few stupid promoters thought it would so 2 million buys doesn't mean it's a dissapointment. I think 1.2 million is huge for two non-heavyweight, non-hispanic fighters.


Floyd's fight sold almost twice as much as Pacquiao's. I don't care who he's fighting. That's impressive.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

It seems when Floyd refused to pay the WBC sanctioning fee, the WBC chairman Jose Sulaiman got his widdle feewings hurted.

“…it was for me a humiliation and a threat to all world boxing institutions... As the fight Mayweather-Mosley is going to be exclusively for the money and only to see who is going to win over the other, with no other interest, and as a boxing fan, I have decided to stay home to watch it on the Mexican Televisa."

[SeoulSoxFan]

And on the subject of whether boxing is dying, if 1.2 million PPV buys is considered a "failure," I'd say boxing is in pretty good shape.

I think that cliche still lives on because boxing in US has been "dying" for a while, or more accurately, big heavyweight Americans that the public can grab onto.

In the old days, guys like Pavlik would have been the toast of the town and been seen on ABC Saturday afternoon main events. Deadspin would have followed (if it existed back then) his every downfall.

The game is still very strong in Europe, and as I had pointed out earlier Pacman has almost single-handedly revived the sport in Asia - although you can argue Japanese boxing scene never went away.

But being on stateside, one can -- honestly but incorrectly -- assume that it's been on its last breadth. Certainly we're far from the days of Hearns and Hagler, Tyson and Holyfield, or even Paz and Mancini.

[Gene Conleys Plane Ticket]

I think that cliche still lives on because boxing in US has been "dying" for a while, or more accurately, big heavyweight Americans that the public can grab onto.

In the old days, guys like Pavlik would have been the toast of the town and been seen on ABC Saturday afternoon main events. Deadspin would have followed (if it existed back then) his every downfall.

The game is still very strong in Europe, and as I had pointed out earlier Pacman has almost single-handedly revived the sport in Asia - although you can argue Japanese boxing scene never went away.

But being on stateside, one can -- honestly but incorrectly -- assume that it's been on its last breadth. Certainly we're far from the days of Hearns and Hagler, Tyson and Holyfield, or even Paz and Mancini.

It is obviously a barren era for heavyweights, but I think the other media cliché -- "As go the heavyweights, so goes boxing" -- is overstated. I think it's really a self-fulfilling prophecy on the media's part and gives the mainstream sports media an excuse for not covering boxing the way it used to. There are a lot of reasons why boxing has mostly vanished from the sports pages -- the main one being that there are very few sports pages left -- but the recent explosion of talent in the lighter divisions has helped open people's eyes to the fact that boxing does NOT rely on heavyweights to carry it. And even historically, the heavyweight division has rarely been where the best talent fights.

Heavyweight was a more healtheir division in the earlier days of boxing simply because up until about 30 years ago, any fighter over 175 pounds was a heavyweight. I don't think Rocky Marciano ever fought over 200 pounds (certainly not often). Today he would have been a cruiserweight. Joe Louis usually weighed in right around the 200 pound mark or a little above. Ali was usually around 215. It was just a more open division, in which merely somewhat-bigger-than average human beings could actually do quite well based on talent alone.

These days, you have to be the size of an NFL lineman to even have a hope of competing. A fine boxer like Tomas Adamek can do well against the occasional Chris Arreola. But even though Adamek is probably a better overall fighter than either of the Klitschkos, he has no prayer against either one. Result: many fewer talented heavyweights.