132 replies to this topic

[goyangfc]

I'm sure this belongs in the Olympic Hockey thread when it gets started - but I can't think of many teams in sports history under more pressure than the Canadian men's ice hockey team for the 2010 Olympic Winter Games.

There's ALWAYS pressure on the Canada team, since the NHL players began playing - nothing short of the Olympic Championship is acceptable to the Canadian media and the Canadian fans...and they have to overcome a very poor showing in 2006.

And they're at home. Home field isn't always an advantage.

I do also know this - I hope the NHL is able to extend this set-up to Sochi. I think an Ovechkin led Russian team playing at home will be an interesting thing.

There's more pressure on the Canada team this year, because they are playing on NHL-sized rinks for the first time in Olympic history, not on international-sized rinks. I cannot wait to experience the Olympic hockey fever in Montreal.

Edited by goyangfc, 29 January 2010 - 05:48 PM.

[Nuf Ced]

USA big underdogs for a medal, but if Ryan Miller stays in the zone he's been playing in....look out. The Americans can steal one.

[Fred not Lynn]

USA big underdogs for a medal, but if Ryan Miller stays in the zone he's been playing in....look out. The Americans can steal one.

I wouldn't say the US is a big underdog for a medal. Maybe not considered a GOLD medal favorite....but a medal would not be a shock at all.

The storybook Gold medal final is Crosby v. Ovechkin -- err....Canada v. Russia...with a re-match four years later in Sochi.

[Terras]

http://www.sanluisob...ry/1022281.html

Nice piece, quick who-to-watch in the Olympics.

I personally am interested to see how Sweden will do. Didn't realize they had such depth, and with Lundqvist in net, I wouldn't be surprised to see them take home a medal.

[The Four Peters]

There's more pressure on the Canada team this year, because they are playing on NHL-sized rinks for the first time in Olympic history, not on international-sized rinks. I cannot wait to experience the Olympic hockey fever in Montreal.

Losing Getzlaf sure isn't going to help their cause.

USA big underdogs for a medal, but if Ryan Miller stays in the zone he's been playing in....look out. The Americans can steal one.

Completely agree on Miller. Good God he is in the zone right now.

I wouldn't say the US is a big underdog for a medal. Maybe not considered a GOLD medal favorite....but a medal would not be a shock at all.

The storybook Gold medal final is Crosby v. Ovechkin -- err....Canada v. Russia...with a re-match four years later in Sochi.

Yeah, I'd put Canada, Russia, and Sweden as the favorites to medal, with the USA, Finland, and Czechs right on that next level down. I guess it's fair to say that the US medaling wouldn't be a huge surprise, but whomever of the top 3 doesn't medal would indeed be surprising, if that makes sense.

[FL4WL3SS]

Get your DVR's ready - USA first three games:

02/16 12:00PST/3:00EST USA v. Switzerland
02/18 12:00PST/3:00EST USA v. Norway
02/21 4:40PST/7:40EST USA v. Canada

[FL4WL3SS]

Other notable games:

02/17 9:00PST/12:00EST Czech Rep v. Slovakia
02/18 9:00PST/12:00EST Slovakia v. Russia
02/21 12:00PST/3:00EST Russia v. Czech Rep
02/21 9:00PST/12:00EST Sweden v. Finland

[FL4WL3SS]

Yeah, I'd put Canada, Russia, and Sweden as the favorites to medal, with the USA, Finland, and Czechs right on that next level down. I guess it's fair to say that the US medaling wouldn't be a huge surprise, but whomever of the top 3 doesn't medal would indeed be surprising, if that makes sense.

I'm going to put Slovakia as a darkhorse here. They have a very talented team up front and some solid defense, their goaltending is a little suspect as I don't know if they'll start Budaj or Halak, but I'd go with Halak.

EDIT: Also, here is a link with the rosters - http://www.iihf.com/...10/rosters.html

Edited by FL4WL3SS, 10 February 2010 - 10:54 AM.

[The Four Peters]

I'm going to put Slovakia as a darkhorse here. They have a very talented team up front and some solid defense, their goaltending is a little suspect as I don't know if they'll start Budaj or Halak, but I'd go with Halak.

EDIT: Also, here is a link with the rosters - http://www.iihf.com/...10/rosters.html

Any team with Ziggy Palfy and Josef Stumpel is A-OK in my book.

I don't know, I just don't see it. They have some star power in Hossa and Gaborik, but the bottom of their roster is just crud. They would need Halak to absolutely stand on his head to make a dent. They are definitely solid, and could probably be included in the Czech/Finland/USA group, but I don't see them sniffing a medal.

To me, the top 3 teams of Canada, Russia, and Sweden are far and away better than the rest. For Russia to throw out a power play of:

Markov

Ovechkin Kovalchuk

Malkin Datsyuk


is just ridiculously unfair.

Edited by The Four Peters, 10 February 2010 - 10:58 AM.

[Haunted]

So I've heard that the NHL is planning on "pulling out" of the next games over in Russia. Why would they do this? Haven't a few players gone on record saying they'll play whether the NHL commits to it or not? What would the NHL do if they didn't let them play, and a guy like Ovechkin played anyway? Would they really "punish" a guy as important to the league as Alexander Ovechkin for this?

[jsinger121]

So I've heard that the NHL is planning on "pulling out" of the next games over in Russia. Why would they do this? Haven't a few players gone on record saying they'll play whether the NHL commits to it or not? What would the NHL do if they didn't let them play, and a guy like Ovechkin played anyway? Would they really "punish" a guy as important to the league as Alexander Ovechkin for this?

I'd hope the league would punish every player that decided to play in the Olympics if the NHL doesn't plan on participating. There first duty is their NHL team which they are under contract for not their country.

Edited by jsinger121, 10 February 2010 - 11:20 AM.

[Haunted]

You're right, but the league would get murdered in the all-important Court of Public Opinion for doing that. I can see fringe-to-average players relenting and not going over for fear of suspension or worse, but what about a guy like Ovechkin? Or Crosby? Or Malkin?

[The Four Peters]

So I've heard that the NHL is planning on "pulling out" of the next games over in Russia. Why would they do this? Haven't a few players gone on record saying they'll play whether the NHL commits to it or not? What would the NHL do if they didn't let them play, and a guy like Ovechkin played anyway? Would they really "punish" a guy as important to the league as Alexander Ovechkin for this?

I honestly think they're using it as a bargaining position for the next CBA. As in "Ok, we'll allow you to play in the Olympics, but you have to concede something on your side." I think they'll end up playing, personally.

Of course, it could be another stupid, shortsighted idea from Bettman, which would be wholly unsurprising.

I'd hope the league would punish every player that decided to play in the Olympics if the NHL doesn't plan on participating. There first duty is their NHL team which they are under contract for not their country.

And Ovechkin would take whatever "punishment" was doled out. If the NHL is that shortsighted to be heavy handed with him for playing, then they're exactly as stupid as I think they are.

Edited by The Four Peters, 10 February 2010 - 11:24 AM.

[Haunted]

The CBA angle makes sense, I hadn't thought of that. Given Bettman's track record, however, I wonder if that's thinking too deeply? He hasn't exactly been very good with the forward-planning so far, but that's another discussion.


Regardless, I'm really looking forward to Olympic Hockey. Seeing some of the best players the world has to offer playing for national pride (in a sport where that means something) is always entertaining.

[Awesome Fossum]

So I've heard that the NHL is planning on "pulling out" of the next games over in Russia. Why would they do this?

Here's Capitals owner Ted Leonsis's explanation:

As I noted recently, my personal issues center around the Olympics schedule; safety for our players; insurance; and what it does for revenues for our league and hence the players. It isn’t like the Olympics are a free and non commercial effort. Someone makes a lot of money from our players and they take all of the risk and put in all of the effort.

I don't think the NHL would actually go to the mat over it, but really, he's right. The NHL makes all the sacrifices and assumes all the risk, and makes no money. I assume the NHL's idea of a compromise is the revival (and hopefully revamping) of the World Cup of Hockey, which returns in 2011.

[cshea]

Quick note on Team Canada...Ryan Getzlaf was injured the other night playing for the Ducks. Stevie Y has Jeff Carter headed to Vancouver and will be on standby if Getzlaf can't play.

http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie

Final decision on Getzlaf-Carter may not come until Monday, when final roster is submitted. Team Canada wants Carter there and ready to go

[FL4WL3SS]

Quick note on Team Canada...Ryan Getzlaf was injured the other night playing for the Ducks. Stevie Y has Jeff Carter headed to Vancouver and will be on standby if Getzlaf can't play.

http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie

What an embarrassment of riches - it really sucks to have to replace Ryan Getzlaf with Jeff Carter.

[jk333]

The NHL gets something incredibly important to it from the Olympics: EXPOSURE.

Its one thing for the Washington owner to whine, he has Ovechkin but for teams like the St. Louis Blues or Nashville Predators the exposure of the sport to millions of viewers is extremely valuable, a value that the NHL most likely overlooks or undervalues.

Edited by jk333, 11 February 2010 - 11:55 AM.

[gltndr29]

So I've heard that the NHL is planning on "pulling out" of the next games over in Russia. Why would they do this? Haven't a few players gone on record saying they'll play whether the NHL commits to it or not? What would the NHL do if they didn't let them play, and a guy like Ovechkin played anyway? Would they really "punish" a guy as important to the league as Alexander Ovechkin for this?

If the NHL sticks by its guns on this, I would expect you'd see some of the better Russian players bolt for the KHL to make sure they can participate. It might be harder for someone under a longterm contract, like Ovechkin, to do (although there would be some irony to NHL teams complaining about the KHL taking guys under contract to them), but it might be one additional reason (in addition to the gobs of tax free money) for some high profile guys to make the move. I really think Russian players would take offense to the NHL making sure everyone participate when the Olympics were in Salt Lake or Vancouver but pulling the plug before it goes to Russia.

[David Laurila]

Analysis of every team can be found here:

http://puckprospectus.com/

[The Four Peters]

Also, NBC has started an Olympics hockey blog. Sounds like Mike Florio from ProFootballTalk.com will be involved. I don't know how much he knows about hockey, but he sure as fuck knows how to run a blog.

[burstnbloom]

TFP was absolutely right about Sochi being a bargaining chip in the next CBA. The board of Governors have long looked at the Olympics as a huge liability to the league because they have to insure all of their best player to go play in a tournament that they get nothing out of except league exposure. They are ok with Vancouver because all the games will be played at reasonable times and given its in Canada, the hockey tournament will be one of the marquis events of the games. Sochi is a different story. All of the games will be played in the morning or mid day, with no hope of prime time North American exposure. There will literally be no payoff for the league in Sochi and they will still have the same loss of revenue and insurance concerns. I dont think they will insist on not participating, but they will certainly make the players concede something to do it.

[Orel Miraculous]

I'd hope the league would punish every player that decided to play in the Olympics if the NHL doesn't plan on participating. There first duty is their NHL team which they are under contract for not their country.

I'd really like to here you further explain your thinking here. To me the idea that any human being owes more loyalty to a corporation than he does to his country is ass-backward beyond belief.

[DannyHeep]

I'd really like to here you further explain your thinking here. To me the idea that any human being owes more loyalty to a corporation than he does to his country is ass-backward beyond belief.

Really? It isn't like you are being asked to defend your country here.

You are under contract to your team, and that is what pays the bills. If you want you play for your country, that is fine, but you are legally contracted to play for your NHL team. You want to play in the Olympics? Great. If your team doesn't want you to, they absolutely have the right to prevent you from doing so.

Why should the NHL subsidize the Swedish national team? If they would rather play for their country, it isn't the team's job to finance it.

[Orel Miraculous]

Why should the NHL subsidize the Swedish national team?

Because the country of Sweden (its hockey infrastructure, youth programs, coaches, Christ even the player's families) subsidized Nicklas Lidstrom's development as a hockey player, thus enabling a multi-million dollar American corporation to profit off of his skill.

[Average Reds]

Because the country of Sweden (its hockey infrastructure, youth programs, coaches, Christ even the player's families) subsidized Nicklas Lidstrom's development as a hockey player, thus enabling a multi-million dollar American corporation to profit off of his skill.

You made almost the exact same argument in the WBC thread. It was bullshit then and it's bullshit now.

Nicklas Lindstrom is not working 20 hour shifts in a meat packing plant for a nameless, faceless corporation. He makes $7.5 million a year playing hockey for the Detroit Red Wings, which is about as much as Mike Ilitch makes from owning the team in a good year. So you can drop the Upton Sinclair routine.

Now, I don't think the NHL will ever actually bar their players from the games. MLB can basically ignore the Olympics because baseball is relatively new to the games and there's little public support for an "Olympic break." As others have pointed out, the NHL isn't in this position: ice hockey has always been a major part of the Winter Games, and the Olympics help to promote interest in the NHL.

So I tend to agree with your conclusion. I just think that couching your argument in terms that would make a Marxist blush is pointlessly stupid.

Edited by Average Reds, 15 February 2010 - 08:44 AM.

[burstnbloom]

Ryan Getzlaf looks to be in good shape after his 4 point game last night. He will likely suit up for Team Canada this week, which is great news for them and bad news for everyone else.

Can't wait for Team USA vs. Team Canada on Saturday. I have a good feeling about team USA even if they are probably the 4th or 5th best team on paper.

[ngruz25]

Team Canada must feel good seeing Brodeur and Luongo both pulled from their last starts before Olympic games begin. This week would be a rather funny time to see their goalies go cold!

[The Four Peters]

Ryan Getzlaf looks to be in good shape after his 4 point game last night. He will likely suit up for Team Canada this week, which is great news for them and bad news for everyone else.

Can't wait for Team USA vs. Team Canada on Saturday. I have a good feeling about team USA even if they are probably the 4th or 5th best team on paper.

Just as a heads up, the game is on Sunday, 7pm Eastern. I disagree on USA, I think they are going to have a really tough time medaling this year. I could be wrong, but they just don't have the depth that the top teams do. I'd put them at 5th at best on paper.

Thank god I don't have to root for Komisarek.

[burstnbloom]

Just as a heads up, the game is on Sunday, 7pm Eastern. I disagree on USA, I think they are going to have a really tough time medaling this year. I could be wrong, but they just don't have the depth that the top teams do. I'd put them at 5th at best on paper.

Thank god I don't have to root for Komisarek.

Ah thank you.

Also, I don't know where we disagree. I think we both see them at around the same level. I just think its going to be much more fun to not root for Mike Modano and Bill Guerin this Olympics. Dustin Brown, Ryan Suter and Ryan Kessler are much easier guys for me to get behind.

[The Four Peters]

Ah thank you.

Also, I don't know where we disagree. I think we both see them at around the same level. I just think its going to be much more fun to not root for Mike Modano and Bill Guerin this Olympics. Dustin Brown, Ryan Suter and Ryan Kessler are much easier guys for me to get behind.

I guess we just disagree on the "good feeling" part. I don't have a good feeling about their chances, and don't think they're going to do very well. I'm definitely rooting for myself to be wrong, though.

Edit: I agree that this team is much easier to root for.

Edited by The Four Peters, 15 February 2010 - 08:07 PM.

[johnmd20]

I guess we just disagree on the "good feeling" part. I don't have a good feeling about their chances, and don't think they're going to do very well. I'm definitely rooting for myself to be wrong, though.

Edit: I agree that this team is much easier to root for.

Agreed, I don't think the team has enough stars or enough depth to medal this year. I also hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I will be. There are some phenomenal teams this year. Ryan Miller will have to do it all if the team is to have a chance.

[burstnbloom]

I guess we just disagree on the "good feeling" part. I don't have a good feeling about their chances, and don't think they're going to do very well. I'm definitely rooting for myself to be wrong, though.

Edit: I agree that this team is much easier to root for.

Ok, we are probably looking at this from different places. Look at it from my perspective. In Torino, team USA looked old, slow, bored and disinterested. They complained about the travel, they complained about the lodging, they complained about EVERYTHING and came in 8th place, and didn't seem all that bummed about it. As someone who was rooting for USA hockey, I was embarrassed by their performance and thought they should have been ashamed of themselves. The fact that it didn't seem like they even cared how pathetic they were was insulting.

Now Burke takes over the organization and he purges all the old entitled legacy players and now we have a team with Suter, Kessler, Patrick Kane, Parise, Pavelski, Dustin Brown, Erik Johnson, Bobby Ryan etc. etc. etc. Young, hungry players who are looking to show the world that they are not an also ran. I don't expect them to medal, as I think Canada, Sweden and Russia are just too talented, but I do have a good feeling that these kids will make a little bit of noise in this tournament and I'm excited about it and their prospects to grow into a really good team for Sochi.

[JulE6]

Various reports on line combos from some countries during practice:

Russia:
Ovechkin - Datsyuk - Semin
Kovalchuk - Malkin - Afinogenov
Kozlov - Fedorov - Radulov
Zaripov - Zinoviev - Morozov

Markov - Nikulin
Grebeshkov - Korneev
Kalinin - Volchenkov
Gonchar - Tyutin

Canada:
Nash-Crosby-Bergeron
Heatley-Thornton-Marleau
Staal-Getzlaf-Perry
Morrow-Richards-Iginla

Pronger-Boyle
Niedermayer-Weber
Seabrook-Keith
Doughty

USA:
Parise-Stastny-Kane
Malone-Pavelski-Kessel
Langenbrunner-Kesler-Brown

Czech Republic:
Havlat-Plekanec-Elias
Jagr - Cervenka- Cajanek
Erat - Krejci - Fleischmann
Michalek - Vasicek - Rolinek

[jk333]

I think this USA squad is good. My concern revolves around the defense against the better teams. Miller is as good as anyone and our offense is underrated. I think to medal the USA needs to outscore the best teams or pray that Miller looks like the best goalie in the world. I don't think we will come out on top in 2 - 1 games. But, I do think this team can score. We have a number of snipers that will make our centers look better.

Patrice on Canada's 1st line? Really?

Edited by jk333, 15 February 2010 - 08:40 PM.

[burstnbloom]

I think this USA squad is good. My concern revolves around the defense against the better teams. Miller is as good as anyone and our offense is underrated. I think to medal the USA needs to outscore the best teams or pray that Miller looks like the best goalie in the world. I don't think we will come out on top in 2 - 1 games. But, I do think this team can score. We have a number of snipers that will make our centers look better.

Patrice on Canada's 1st line? Really?

I don't really agree, I don't think they can score with the Canadians or Russians, but they are better defensively than almost any of the big teams. I do think the USA first line is dangerous as hell with Parise-Stastny-Kane. In 4 years that will be one of the best lines in the tournament.

Patrice is playing on Crosby's wing because they had fantastic chemistry in the World Championships.

[ngruz25]

Is Patrice really playing on the 1st line instead of Toews? Can Toews not play the wing or something? Maybe Canada doesn't want three lefties on the same line? I know that Crosby and Bergeron worked great together in the past, and Patrice is probably my favorite Bruin, but that's leaving a big gun on the bench.

I like those lines for the US. I'm going to side with the non-terrorist-friendly folks here and predict that the US gets into the bronze medal game. They've got a young, "hungry" line-up that has plenty of international experience and the best goalie in the tournament (IMO). Finland has an old team and Slovakia's got some weak links, such as old friend Jozeph Stumpel and new friend Miro Satan. I think it'll come down to the US and the Czech Republic for the 4th slot, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the US come out ahead. Although I will concede that they might have some tough time generating offense outside of the first line.

Edited by ngruz25, 15 February 2010 - 08:53 PM.

[The Four Peters]

Ok, we are probably looking at this from different places. Look at it from my perspective. In Torino, team USA looked old, slow, bored and disinterested. They complained about the travel, they complained about the lodging, they complained about EVERYTHING and came in 8th place, and didn't seem all that bummed about it. As someone who was rooting for USA hockey, I was embarrassed by their performance and thought they should have been ashamed of themselves. The fact that it didn't seem like they even cared how pathetic they were was insulting.

Now Burke takes over the organization and he purges all the old entitled legacy players and now we have a team with Suter, Kessler, Patrick Kane, Parise, Pavelski, Dustin Brown, Erik Johnson, Bobby Ryan etc. etc. etc. Young, hungry players who are looking to show the world that they are not an also ran. I don't expect them to medal, as I think Canada, Sweden and Russia are just too talented, but I do have a good feeling that these kids will make a little bit of noise in this tournament and I'm excited about it and their prospects to grow into a really good team for Sochi.

Makes complete sense. I agree.

Various reports on line combos from some countries during practice:

Russia:
Ovechkin - Datsyuk - Semin
Kovalchuk - Malkin - Afinogenov

That's really just not fair right there.

[cshea]

Games get underway tomorrow, with Team USA leading it off. No real marquee matchups, but we get our first look at the powerhouse Russian and Canadian teams, as well as the first look at Team USA. Switzerland shutout Canada in Torino, so it'll be interesting to see what type of team they bring this time around.

3:00- United States vs. Switzerland (USA)
7:30- Canada vs. Norway (CNBC)
11:55- Russia vs. Latvia (CNBC)

First real good matchup of the tournament is the late game on Wednesday, Czech Republic vs. Slovakia.

This coming stretch of 3 games a day through Sunday is going to be all kinds of awesome.

[TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle]

Those times PST or EST?

[cshea]

Those times PST or EST?

EST

[TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle]

Welp, guess I'll be leaving the office for the bar early tomorrow.

[The Four Peters]

Ugh, I wish could leave work early to watch. I'll most likely discretely stream it, listening to the audio.

I know we discussed this in RMPS, but are we doing gamethreads for the games? If so, where? I'm thinking we should keep it in one big mega-gamethread, and in the RMPS gamethread forum. But that's just me. I'm sure Nap will smite me if he disagrees.

[JulE6]

We could do game threads for each day -- one thread for tomorrow's action, another for the next day, etc. Or one big one, because that's a lot of days. I defer to Nap

[cshea]

I say we keep them in RMPS, judging from this thread it'll likely be the usual cast of characters following along. Maybe we do individual game threads for Team USA, then a one for the rest of the field?

In any event, fuck Comcast or whomever for setting up these 6 hour blocks of "Winter Olympics" that is going to chew up a shit load of my DVR space when I don't need the 3 hours of curling that proceeds the USA game tomorrow.

Edited by cshea, 15 February 2010 - 09:39 PM.

[The Four Peters]

I say we keep them in RMPS, judging from this thread it'll likely be the usual cast of characters following along. Maybe we do individual game threads for Team USA, then a one for the rest of the field?

Bam and Bam.

[The Four Peters]

Oh yeah, and curling is awesome. There's a lot of other events that would waste space on your DVR, but curling isn't one of them.

[jk333]

Edit - nevermind. I'll just post in RMPS.

Edited by jk333, 16 February 2010 - 09:14 AM.

[goyangfc]

I think this thread should be used as a general Ice Hockey (both Men's and Women's) thread and have the game threads over on RMPS.

Also, only ice hockey is Women's. Every other event is Ladies'. Very strange.

EDIT: Maybe chicks with sticks are more womanly than ladylike.

Edited by goyangfc, 16 February 2010 - 09:19 AM.

[Maalox]

I think this thread should be used as a general Ice Hockey (both Men's and Women's) thread and have the game threads over on RMPS.

Also, only ice hockey is Women's. Every other event is Ladies'. Very strange.

EDIT: Maybe chicks with sticks are more womanly than ladylike.

Curling is Women's too. And I think there is a third.