[smastroyin]

Romero Romine, on Apr 26 2006, 12:25 AM, said:

Since 17 April, Wily Mo has a grand total of 7 PA; Tito has on the other hand found a way to give the dismal duo of Willie Harris and Dustan Mohr 31 PA, which they have somehow parlayed into astounding rates of 115/161/231/392 (that's AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS). All this despite scouting reports and Theo's aside that suggest WMP can play a decent CF.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The greatest fear that any of us had when Willie Harris was signed is that he would end up as the starting CF. This fear is coming to life before us and is playing out about how one might expect it to. He can't hit, he can't even bunt, and his defense is about what one would expect from a career utility guy playing CF. I'm sure he has better days ahead of him, but I don't think those better days are really worth waiting for.

[15'sCementShoes]

smastroyin, on Apr 26 2006, 08:17 AM, said:

The greatest fear that any of us had when Willie Harris was signed is that he would end up as the starting CF.  This fear is coming to life before us and is playing out about how one might expect it to.  He can't hit, he can't even bunt, and his defense is about what one would expect from a career utility guy playing CF.  I'm sure he has better days ahead of him, but I don't think those better days are really worth waiting for.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What I can't understand is if Willie was going to get the majority of starts anyways why not just leave Stern in that role. He'd be getting almost as many AB's as he is in Pawtucket and he clearly has a brighter future here. It seems like a communication breakdown between the FO & Tito.

[TheoShmeo]

15'sCementShoes, on Apr 26 2006, 07:23 AM, said:

What I can't understand is if Willie was going to get the majority of starts anyways why not just leave Stern in that role.  He'd be getting almost as many AB's as he is in Pawtucket and he clearly has a brighter future here.  It seems like a communication breakdown between the FO & Tito.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only explanations I can think of are that (1) they actually think that Harris will give them more than Stern right now (seems crazy) and (2) they were concerned that Harris would exercise his option to flee if he was not promoted to the team on April 20 (is the depth that Harris provides really that important?). Either way, I agree, if they aren't going to play Pena or Mohr in CF, and they want Stern to get at bats rather than spend the season on the bench, they should be playing Stern as the regular CF in Boston until Coco returns, and then send him back down to AAA. That said, I assume we'll see Mohr out in CF and Pena in RF tonight.

[Pumpsie]

smastroyin, on Apr 26 2006, 07:17 AM, said:

The greatest fear that any of us had when Willie Harris was signed is that he would end up as the starting CF.  This fear is coming to life before us and is playing out about how one might expect it to.  He can't hit, he can't even bunt, and his defense is about what one would expect from a career utility guy playing CF.  I'm sure he has better days ahead of him, but I don't think those better days are really worth waiting for.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly, smastroyin. Willie Harris is turning into this year's Kevin Millar.

Look at what Youks is doing this year. Tito gave this guy 79 at bats last year while Millar crapped the bed. Now, Wily Mo has to sit and watch Harris and Mohr's ineptitude.

Once again, Tito's default tendencies are on display. He still hasn't shaken the perception that he got in Philly, that he inexplicably favored some vets over better players.

There is NO good reason why Pena isn't our starting centerfielder until Coco gets back. Harris can still be a late-inning defensive replacement.

Harris has been so putrid that the thought "if only he was as good a hitter as Darren Lewis" crossed my mind recently. Imagine.

Come on, Theo. Say something.

[redsox13]

Wathing Willie Harris at the plate is torture. I mean why not start selecting people from the stands to hit? We could make a really fun game out of it like on the Price is Right. I'd rather have David Murphy in there for Christ sake. Pena has proven himself to look a little silly in RF but I'd honstly rather have him in CF than on the bench. And Mohr could no doubt hit RHP better than Willy Harris, yet he only sees time when a LHP is on the mound. I don't know what Tito is trying to do with Harris but it is absolutely It is ridiculous that I can't spell the word ridiculous that he gets so much playing time

[ShaneTrot]

The only reasonable defense for starting Harris is that he can run better than Mohr and Pena plus he has a decent throwing arm. Of course, besides having a decent number of walks the last few years, he's useless at the plate.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if they called up Murphy from Portland, he would bring more to the table than Willie. Don't even get me started on sending Stern down to let this 25th man be a starting CF (even if its because of injury) for a club with playoff aspirations.

Edit: Damn, RS13 beat me to Murphy over Willie.

This post has been edited by ShaneTrot: 26 April 2006 - 08:11 AM

[Quintanariffic]

Pumpsie, on Apr 26 2006, 08:28 AM, said:

Exactly, smastroyin.  Willie Harris is turning into this year's Kevin Millar.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Except that Millar at least had a relatively recent track record of success and productivity, if only in spurts. Willie Harris has never proven that he has the ability to be a starting OF in the major leagues, at any time, at any level. Watching him butcher every fundamental skill out there is just painful to watch. I now wince every time I hear his name announced as the next batter or a ball is hit to anywhere but dead center. Makes me long for the halcyon days of Crespo, Gaetti, and Pemberton.

[Joe D Reid]

The decision makes even less sense given the Sox' offensive performance to date. When a team is as far down the RS rankings (and as far up the RA rankings) as the Sox are currently are, it strikes me as more likely that marginal improvement would be easier on offense than on defense.

In other words, there is some level of run prevention which is a baseline, given luck on balls in play, skill of oppposing batters, etc. To me, as you approach that baseline it gets harder and harder to make incremental improvements--if I'm recalling high school math right, a graph of this would be asymptotic--whereas there's more room for improvement on offense right now.

Of course, that assumes that Harris is much better defensively in CF than Pena would be. Just because Willie can't hit doesn't automatically mean he can field well--the Sox need to consider the possibility that he's lousy at everything (besides baserunning).

Also, just on an aesthetic level, having to watch Harris and AGon bat back-to-back is killing me. It's like watching an NL team from 1968.

[Philip Jeff Frye]

smastroyin, on Apr 26 2006, 08:17 AM, said:

The greatest fear that any of us had when Willie Harris was signed is that he would end up as the starting CF.  This fear is coming to life before us and is playing out about how one might expect it to.  He can't hit, he can't even bunt, and his defense is about what one would expect from a career utility guy playing CF.  I'm sure he has better days ahead of him, but I don't think those better days are really worth waiting for.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's not the starting CF. He's a back up filling in for an injured player. Is it an ideal situation? Hardly. Should Terry pinch hit for him more? Almost certainly. Are the other alternatives that much better? Apparently not.

Its clear that they think Pena can't handle CF, which given his butchery in RF so far seems like a reasonable position. Its funny to see some posters on this board rant and rave about his inability to play right and others clamor for him to be in center. It's the right decision not to force Pena (who's already raw meat for the talk show mediots) into a role that he's not really capable of performing in.

And the "Where's Stern" chants seem like nothing but wishful thinking. We're convinced that Harris is a disaster based on his 14 at bats, but Stern's .521 OPS last year and his .390 OPS this year leave us hungry for more? Stern and the team will both be better off if he builds experience and confidence in AAA ball instead of sucking big time in the majors.

[yecul]

Mohr is the preferable option, but that's not saying much.

The real question seems to be Pena. Why not play him in CF? Some possibilities:

- Pena does not want to play CF
- Francona does not consider Pena an option in CF defensively
- The organization does not consider Pena an option in CF defensively
- Francona/the organization consider him a liability either offensively or defensively
- It just hasn't come up yet

Of all those possibilities (there may be more), I would say the second is most probable. So, fretting about it is likely a pointless exercise.

[djhb20]

Look, Willie Harris hit .161/.277/.250 in 65 PAs in Pawtucket. He's hit .071/.278/.071 in 17 PAs in Boston. For his career in the majors he's at .240/.309/.295 in about 950 PAs.

He clearly can't hit. He doesn't seem to be a very good fielder. One of the things the Red Sox front office has demonstrated in recent years is the ability to find cheap, "replacement-level" talent lying around. Willie Harris is below replacement-level. That is, there really must be someone lying around in AAA somewhere that can face right-handed pitching and play CF better than Willie Harris and that we can get for nothing or close to nothing (or could have already gotten for nothing or close to nothing). I haven't scoured through the AAA/AA rosters looking for that guy, but I can't believe that Willie Harris is the best available option, since he can't hit and doesn't play very good defense in CF.

If we are going to have an everyday CF (while Coco is out) who can only put up an OPS of .400-.500, then let's get a defensive stud out there.

[Tudor Fever]

Unlike most on this board, I am OK with Harris over Stern on the roster. Harris actually has had a better overall career to date (better OBP, better baserunner, worse SLP, both decent fielders).

That said, I too am disturbed that neither Pena nor Mohr is starting ahead of Harris. The only possible rationales I can think of are:

1. They think his defense is a lot better. Note that Harris did not start on Saturday (Mohr did), even though Halliday, a RHP, was pitching; this may have been because Dinardo, an extreme ground ball pitcher, was on the mound. However, Mohr has always rated as an average to slightly above average defensive outfielder. (They might think that Pena is simply too atrocious a defender to be given the start; a similar argument was floated last year re Petagine.)

2. They want to see what they have in Harris, and will cut bait soon if he doesn't improve.

The major reason I'm disturbed about this is that I think Tito's intransigence with refusing to use Petagine and Youkilis at first last year, and sticking with Millar and Olerud, cost the team several games, and this brings back flashbacks of that debacle. Luckily, this particular matter will be moot when Crisp returns.

[Quintanariffic]

I never thought that anyone would make me long for the speedy return to health of Gabe Kapler. Willie Harris is doing exactly that.

[smastroyin]

Kevin Mortons Ghost, on Apr 26 2006, 10:06 AM, said:

He's not the starting CF.  He's a back up filling in for an injured player.  Is it an ideal situation?  Hardly.  Should Terry pinch hit for him more?  Almost certainly.  Are the other alternatives that much better?  Apparently not.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's starting despite at least one better option (Mohr) being around. Mohr's track record is spotty but has higher highs and the lows are about the same. I wouldn't care so much except I'm not seeing Willie as a defensive superior to Mohr.

People talking about Pena in CF are typically referencing a statement from the FO that Pena played better CF than corner OF. This is certainly possible. Some people have trouble reading the ball off of the bat at the corner spots but are fine in CF.

There is also the option (good or bad) of Trot in CF with Mohr/Pena in RF.

Much of the problem is that trading for Pena was a complete waste if you have a manager that won't find a way to use him when one of the starting OF goes down. I was pretty neutral on the trade, but you can't justify trading a starting pitcher who can give 200 innings for a guy you don't trust to put in the field. The Harris situation merely magnifies the issue, and I think that's where some of the other frustration comes from.

I, for the record, am fully on board with Stern in Pawtucket.

[sonsoftrotnixon]

Kevin Mortons Ghost, on Apr 26 2006, 10:06 AM, said:

And the "Where's Stern" chants seem like nothing but wishful thinking.  We're convinced that Harris is a disaster based on his 14 at bats, but Stern's .521 OPS last year and his .390 OPS this year leave us hungry for more?  Stern and the team will both be better off if he builds experience and confidence in AAA ball instead of sucking big time in the majors.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stern only had 15 AB last year, and this year, to date, has only had 20 AB. Too small a sample to say he'd be better or worse than Harris (yet), who in nearly 900 at bats has put up a .604 OPS in his entire career (and .349 ops this year, I know, too small a sample size).

Stern has not seen enough action yet to say whether he'd be better or not. I do think however, he'd have atleast caught that ball last night.

This post has been edited by sonsoftrotnixon: 26 April 2006 - 09:50 AM

[Ted Cox 4 president]

I think the F.O. is making up for lost time last year, and that Stern is in Pawtucket come hell or high water. He basically lost an entire year and needs the ABs day in and day out. He's gots a future, I think, but that future isn't now. I also think Harris is on a short tether, and that a few more games like last night's and he'll be riding the bench behind (1) Mohr and (2) Wily Mo. Not that Mohr fills me with optimism . . . Patience, people. It's still April.

[glennhoffmania]

Pumpsie, on Apr 26 2006, 08:28 AM, said:

Exactly, smastroyin.  Willie Harris is turning into this year's Kevin Millar.

Look at what Youks is doing this year.  Tito gave this guy 79 at bats last year while Millar crapped the bed.  Now, Wily Mo has to sit and watch Harris and Mohr's ineptitude.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I couldn't agree more. I said something similar in the manager's thread. Tito has a bad track record when it comes to choosing one guy over another, and Youks performance this year is further proof that last year's handling of the situation was just plain wrong. Once Tito shows that he can evaluate talent and use his options effectively, then I'll start deferring to his judgment. He's done nothing so far to suggest that we should do so.

Get WMP in the lineup, or at least give Mohr a shot. This is getting beyond frustrating.

[Bucknahs Bum Ankle]

I posted these splits recently, but I forget in which thread and it's relevant to this discussion:

3-Year Splits vs. RHP

Harris: 562 AB 262/342/315
Mohr: 532 AB 237/320/406
Pena: 562 AB 237/286/454

Now I really don't see any clear-cut adavantage to starting any of these guys against righties. Harris at least has the best chance of getting on-base. And while I personally wouldn't be opposed to seeing some more of the WMP experiment and determining if he can learn to hit righties/play a respectable CF, I can see why the organization would shy away from such an approach. Unless they can bring in someone else (and who knows if Stern would do any better at this point), it looks like we as fans just have to suck it up for the short term and hope Coco stays healthy when he gets back.

This post has been edited by Bucknahs Bum Ankle: 26 April 2006 - 10:22 AM

[NJ Fan]

My hope after watching this guy for the past week and a half is that the biggest question facing the Sox in September is what % of a full playoff share the players decide to vote him. I echo Quintariffic about wishing Gabe a speedy recovery.

[URI]

I'd be wishing more for Crisp's speedy recovery, since the outfield can be...

Manny
Crisp
Trot
Pena
Mohr

Those are the system's best 5 outfielders. I can't think of any calculus that has Harris, Kapler, or Stern produce more than some footspeed and good feelings over the other five.