134 replies to this topic

[Gehenna]

Dude, seriously, what the fuck was up with the costuming on the Ruskies again? ROPES? Are you shitting me? Let's just put handles on the girls costumes! I can't believe that was even allowed. Should have been DSQ for that BS (See, I'm getting in on the abbreviation thing). V/M and D/W really skated well and they have converted me from a previous hater to an appreciator of ice dancing. I still can't get over how gorgeous V is and what an awesome name she has.

[mpjc]

More griping from Italian, Russian ice-dance skaters.

“I don’t agree with the system. They [Virtue and Moir] are not real dancers. They are very technical and don’t really ‘dance’ on the ice.”

“We skated the best performance and we have a bronze medal,” Shabalin said. “What can you do? We did everything we could.”

so, Scotty Lago gets sent home for some good-natured silliness; what's the response to this betrayal of Olympic values?

Edited by mpjc, 23 February 2010 - 10:26 AM.

[Fratboy]

I was just coming in here to post that. The Russians are dissatisfied with the results. Again. They were pissed in 2002 when Hughes won. Pissed in 2006 when a clean, but safe Shizuka Arakawa and a flawed Sasha Cohen finished ahead of Slutskaya. And now, when all 3 of their top competitors fail to win gold. I can't wait for the carping for the Ladies event; their top skater would be lucky to finish in the Top 10.

[Fratboy]

What to look for tonight:

Women can do just about anything the men can do except for two things: quads, and triple axels (except for Mao Asada and Miki Ando, who can do them in their sleep). Women also perform a spiral sequence, and men do not. The best skaters will have a triple-triple combination. Those who don't will have a triple lutz-double toe, the highest scoring triple-double combo.

In terms of scores:

70+ OMGNOWAY!
65-70 Gold medal contender
60-65 Wicked good
55-60 Good
50-55 Meh
<50 Sucktastic Land

Look for Yu-Na Kim and Mao Asada to rule the short program, and then a big cluster of about 12 skaters between 55 and 65 points, assuming they don't all turn into human Zambonis.

Edited by Fratboy, 23 February 2010 - 06:13 PM.

[mpjc]

Frat (or others), do you know what time the FS starts? if i get home by 9:00 will i see it all?

[Fratboy]

Figure Skating begins at 7:30 EST, but Mirai Nagasu skates fairly early (11th of 30), and NBC should be cutting to her live. After that, I expect to see the most of the last half live, beginning with Cynthia Phaneuf of Canada at #15. I think you'll might miss a chunk of it, and definitely Nagasu.

[Hendu's Gait]

Frat (or others), do you know what time the FS starts? if i get home by 9:00 will i see it all?

It starts at 7:30 and probably ends around 12. There are 30 competitors, and the first one NBC will show is likely Nagasu, who's 11th (order, somewhat worst-best). So most, if not all. I'm guessing they'll show Nagasu actually right around 9PM, and then skip 6-10 skaters (no lower than Asada) to show skiing and then finish all the way.

order of skaters

beaten to it by Frat

edit 2: Oh yeah, there's a good chance they'll show Phaneuf.

Edited by Hendu's Gait, 23 February 2010 - 06:36 PM.

[mpjc]

OK, thanks. will try to get home to see Nagasu.

[Fratboy]

The order is roughly according to the ISU World Standings, with the exception, of course, that Mao Asada and Yu-Na Kim skate earliest of the top contenders, which is strange.

The men's order followed these rankings nearly to a T, which is why Plushenko skated so early, and likewise Nagasu, because they didn't compete or had limited competition in the Grand Prix this season.

[SeoulSoxFan]

The order is roughly according to the ISU World Standings, with the exception, of course, that Mao Asada and Yu-Na Kim skate earliest of the top contenders, which is strange.

The men's order followed these rankings nearly to a T, which is why Plushenko skated so early, and likewise Nagasu, because they didn't compete or had limited competition in the Grand Prix this season.

I believe the skaters are grouped (5 groups in all) but the order within the group is by draw. So both Mao and Kim drew favorably by not sitting around until other skaters in their group finished.

Another thing to look for is that Kim is very strong in the short program, and usually jumps out into an early lead. If Mao can keep close or even lead, then the advantages shifts as she has more technically difficult jumps (two triple axels) in her program.

If Mao stumbles tonight, it'll be very difficult for her to catch up.

[Fratboy]

Well be talking Olympics and FIGURE SKATING!! in chat, so come on by for running commentary.

In other weird quirks, I've found a good for this at http://www.fromsport...deo-185737.html and Miriam Ziegler had a downgraded single axel, meaning she performed a non-element. It's as if it didn't even exist! The beginning starters are interesting.

[mpjc]

Veteran Canadian sportscasters in hot water over stupid remarks about Johnny Weir:

"This may not be politically correct," Mailhot said during the segment, in which Weir, known for his extravagant performances and fashion flair, was shown sporting a semi-sheer, pink-and-black costume he designed himself. "But do you think he lost points due to his costume and his body language?"

Goldberg replied that Weir's feminine style may reflect badly on other male figure skaters. "They'll think all the boys who skate will end up like him," he said. "It sets a bad example."
...
"We should make him (Weir) pass a gender test at this point," Goldberg said and Mailhot then jokingly suggested Weir should compete in the women's competition.

Edited by mpjc, 23 February 2010 - 09:06 PM.

[SeoulSoxFan]

Veteran Canadian sportscasters in hot water over stupid remarks about Johnny Weir:

Hooooray! Score one for homophobia from a nation sportscaster!

[reggiecleveland]

If a dead mother at home can't get you a medal then figure skating isn't what it used to be.

[Fratboy]

Look for Yu-Na Kim and Mao Asada to rule the short program, and then a big cluster of about 12 skaters between 55 and 65 points, assuming they don't all turn into human Zambonis.

Damn if I didn't nail this, especially that cluster. Exactly 12 skaters between 55 and 65 points, Joannie at 71, and then Asada and Kim in the stratosphere. I think Rochette might have been overmarked a bit on program elements, but it was a gutsy and glorious performance.

Had Nagasu skated that program in the last two flights, she would have gotten higher program components marks. The game is still being played, kids.

Anyway, because Flatt and Nagasu are 5th and 6th, they skate in the final flight, the last group of skaters, and will benefit from inflated program component scores. The bronze is Rochette's to lose. If she falters, any of the next 8 can step in, especially anyone who can throw down the 3-3 combos, like Rachael Flatt, Miki Ando, Mirai Nagasu, and Carolina Kostner.

And I have to give a major BOOO to NBC for skipping Alena Leonova's program. Yeah, she's Russian, but damn if her program wasn't fun to watch, and she was just absolutely thrilled to skate clean and looked like she was having the time of her life at the games. The Russian skaters can be pretty dour, and she was a breath of fresh air and filled with pure joy.

Yu-Na Kim's short was the highest scoring short program yet in international competition, and it was magnificent. Catch on replay if you have a chance. Her opening 3-3 combo was the highest scoring element of the night, 10.00 base + 2 grade of execution = 12 points.

This was a great competition, and the last two flights of the long program Thursday should be SOLID.

Edited by Fratboy, 24 February 2010 - 09:37 AM.

[SeoulSoxFan]

Some fun facts about Yuna Kim's performances:

- Kim has won the SP 12 times on the international senior competition: she has won 9 out of those (lost the 2006 Skate Canada; 2007 World Championship; 2009 Goyang Grand Finals)

- Kim has won all competitions that she placed 1st on SP this season

- Her 78.50 included an amazing 9.5 points on GOE alone (Grade of Execution: points awarded above each skill's starting base point)

- Kim has broke her world records on both short and free programs 6 times in her career

- Mao also broke her personal best with the 73.78 score

Breakdown of scores on both Kim and Mao (who absolutely killer her routine):



P.S. The definitive Kim photo gallery, for mabrowndog: http://sports.media....0/yuna/gallery/

[SeoulSoxFan]

As you can see above, Mao really needed to be even cleaner to gain more GOE against Kim's. Her biggest fault was the double toeloop that factored into the triple axel combination not gaining as high of GOE (.60).

We all knew Kim would outgain Mao in the program components (artistic portion), but it was lack of Mao's GOE scores (well, relatively speaking) that put her behind Kim going into the FS.

[SeoulSoxFan]

Another good subplot is the relationship between Kim and coach Brian Orser, who never got his gold in the famous Brian vs. Brian battles (Orser vs. Boitano). Orser never won the Olympic gold, always finishing second to his rival Boitano.

This was a great photo taken right after the score was announced:

Edited by SeoulSoxFan, 24 February 2010 - 10:47 AM.

[Fratboy]

As good as Asada and Kim were, I can't say enough good things about Rochette's iron will and resolve. For her to go out and deliver the goods like that 48 hours after her mom passed away is a testament to her humanity. You have to root for her. In my mind, there will be three gold medalists at this Olympics. That's how good the competition is. This is the highest quality ladies competition ever, and there's no hyperbole in that statement.

Previously, the best Olympic performance was probably Sarah Hughes's 2002 long program, with 7 triple jumps and two 3-3 combos. Kim and Asada will smash that, but the performance with the most heart will be Rochette's.

[reggiecleveland]

I don't really like figure skating, but you have to give her credit.

[Infield Infidel]

As good as Asada and Kim were, I can't say enough good things about Rochette's iron will and resolve. For her to go out and deliver the goods like that 48 hours after her mom passed away is a testament to her humanity. You have to root for her. In my mind, there will be three gold medalists at this Olympics. That's how good the competition is. This is the highest quality ladies competition ever, and there's no hyperbole in that statement.

Previously, the best Olympic performance was probably Sarah Hughes's 2002 long program, with 7 triple jumps and two 3-3 combos. Kim and Asada will smash that, but the performance with the most heart will be Rochette's.

That was without a doubt THE moment of these Olympics. You couldn't help but cringe at every jump, but she delivered breathtakingly clean performance.

I was glad the announcers didn't talk at all, it was a moment for viewers to savor.

[Fratboy]

The order's up for the final flight:
19 United States FLATT Rachael 5 64.64
20 Japan ANDO Miki 4 64.76
21 Korea KIM Yu-Na 1 78.50
22 Japan ASADA Mao 2 73.78
23 Canada ROCHETTE Joannie 3 71.36
24 United States NAGASU Mirai 6 63.76

Usually there's more than a 50 percent chance of at least one of the medals being undecided until the final skater (if it's the skater in 4th place and within a point or two of third), but I personally think everything will be wrapped up before poor Mirai Nagasu even takes the ice.

Rachel should like skating first; she gets to set the tone for Miki Ando and the rest of the field, and I like Yu-Na Kim skating in front of Mao Asada. It would have been perfect television for Joannie Rochette to close the show with a sterling performance and winning the bronze medal, so she'll have to wait about 7 minutes to get the good news.

My prediction is the medals go to Kim, Asada, and Rochette, gold, silver, and bronze, respectively, but it's too bad there won't be the tension like there was as during the Men's long program.

And Americans have to be proud of Flatt and Nagasu. Kwan and Cohen in their primes couldn't have approached what Asada and Kim are doing today; they'd be competing for the bronze as well. Talk about a missed opportunity for Cohen in 2006.

edit: Oh Jesus Christ, Elvis Stojko, will you please shut the fuck up. A triple axel is NOT worth more than a triple-triple combination. Get over it already.

Edited by Fratboy, 24 February 2010 - 07:19 PM.

[Sille Skrub]

As good as Asada and Kim were, I can't say enough good things about Rochette's iron will and resolve. For her to go out and deliver the goods like that 48 hours after her mom passed away is a testament to her humanity. You have to root for her.

This was absolutely incredible. If you weren't moved by this, you don't have a pulse.

[amh03]

In my mind, there will be three gold medalists at this Olympics. That's how good the competition is. This is the highest quality ladies competition ever, and there's no hyperbole in that statement.

I agree completely - boy what a treat by all three of those women!! And, as you said, Rochette's effort was one of the gutsiest athletic competitions I've ever seen.

Edit - I forgot to mention how much I enjoyed the performance by Mirai Nagasu earlier in the evening...her spins were breathtaking!

Edited by amh03, 24 February 2010 - 08:16 PM.

[sheshistory]

And Americans have to be proud of Flatt and Nagasu. Kwan and Cohen in their primes couldn't have approached what Asada and Kim are doing today; they'd be competing for the bronze as well. Talk about a missed opportunity for Cohen in 2006.

I was so happy for Flatt last night after she finished a solid routine.

I heard Peggy Flemming and Dorothy Hamill offer some commentary on Flatt earlier in the day and Flemming said that she's definitely up and coming but lacked a certain artistry. While she did great and is obviously incredibly athletic, I am wondering if you noticed a lack of musicality in her program?

Of course she was nervous and a little stiff but to my untrained eye, she didn't seem to move well with the music to me despite her landing the jumps. In a sport where we were all reminded of the importance of artistry and musicality with Evan Lysacek's win over Plushenko, despite not attempting a quad, I wonder if this focus on artistic side of figure skating is more or less pronounced for the women and, if so, do you see Flatt at a disadvantage in the future?

Of course, competing against a total package like Kim Yun-Na, it doesn't seem like anyone has much of a chance unless she falls apart.

[Barbara]

Frat - any particular reason, other than tradition, that there is a draw for the final skate and not just in order of scores? So that the one with the highest score will skate last.

[StupendousMan]

Frat - any particular reason, other than tradition, that there is a draw for the final skate and not just in order of scores? So that the one with the highest score will skate last.

The first skater in a group has clean ice, while the last has to skate over a surface full of grooves and pits. It's a small difference, but it gives the early skaters an advantage. Drawing straws for positions within each group seems fair.

[Fratboy]

In a sport where we were all reminded of the importance of artistry and musicality with Evan Lysacek's win over Plushenko, despite not attempting a quad, I wonder if this focus on artistic side of figure skating is more or less pronounced for the women and, if so, do you see Flatt at a disadvantage in the future?

Not really. Presentation is something you develop as you grow older, and she's just 17 right now. What I do find interesting is a few years ago when she made her senior debut, 2006 I think, commentators described her as someone who really "feels" the music and the performance. I wouldn't say she's regressed, but perhaps that she's been slower to develop.

Unfortunately, the more technically gifted you are, the higher your presentation scores will be. That's just the way it works. Even Alissa Czisny, who everybody cites as having among the best spins, footwork, and presentation in the world, simply can't land jumps, and that's reflected in the program components.

I wouldn't be worried about Rachael at all. As long as she can keep landing 3-3 combinations, she's in the mix.

[Fratboy]

Frat - any particular reason, other than tradition, that there is a draw for the final skate and not just in order of scores? So that the one with the highest score will skate last.

There's a draw for every group, which consists of 6 skaters apiece. It's a randomizer that makes it more fair. There's also a resurfacing after every two groups, so the final flight will skate on fresh ice.

[Fratboy]

What to look for tonight:

Women can do just about anything the men can do except for two things: quads, and triple axels (except for Mao Asada and Miki Ando, who can do them in their sleep). Women also perform a spiral sequence, and men do not. The best skaters will have a triple-triple combination. Those who don't will have a triple lutz-double toe, the highest scoring triple-double combo.

In the long program, women are permitted 7 jumping passes, 3 of which can be combination jumps, 1 of which may be a three jump combination.

In terms of scores:

140+ OMGNOWAY!
130-140 Gold medal contender
120-130 Wicked good
110-120 Good
100-110 Meh
<100 Sucktastic Land

I've seen the planned programs, and Joannie Rochette has an outside shot at a miracle, as does Rachael Flatt. They both skate the most difficult programs of the night, with 7 triples planned. Nagasu has only 5 triples planned, so she's not a contender, unfortunately, unless she steps it up. Kim and Asada each have 6 triples planned, but Asada does not have a 3-3 combo, but Kim, Flatt, and Rochette all do.

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

It's a shame they're two skaters into the next-to-last group, and showing replays of cluster-cross-country instead. The two Russians in this group obviously can't medal, but they are young, and maybe the stars of the next Games.

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

In terms of scores:

140+ OMGNOWAY!
130-140 Gold medal contender
120-130 Wicked good
110-120 Good
100-110 Meh
<100 Sucktastic Land

I'd add 10 points to each category due to Olympic inflation. 130 is not going to medal tonight. 135, probably.

[Barbara]

Where are the girls? On one of those public access channels? This is ridiculous.

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

This is probably the biggest event in the Olympics, at least to the most people, and we're down to seven skaters of the original 24. I guess they showed the second Canadian earlier, missed it. Instead, they'd rather show a canned medal ceremony from a sport with very little interest.

Apparently, Laura Lepisto of Finland nailed her routine (126.61) and is now in the lead, with the 17-year-old Russian skating this very moment.

[mabrowndog]

I don't care how often she stumbles or falls, I could watch this Georgian chick skate for hours.

Preferably sans outfit.

[SeoulSoxFan]

Mao is in top shape - apparently has landed all her tripes in practice. Once you're in the groove, it's hard to get out of it. The final skaters starting now. F*ck this is nerve wrecking.

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

I've seen the planned programs, and Joannie Rochette has an outside shot at a miracle, as does Rachael Flatt. They both skate the most difficult programs of the night, with 7 triples planned. Nagasu has only 5 triples planned, so she's not a contender, unfortunately, unless she steps it up. Kim and Asada each have 6 triples planned, but Asada does not have a 3-3 combo, but Kim, Flatt, and Rochette all do.

Just a couple of notes. The triples differ greatly in degree of difficulty. The triple axel bringing the highest points. Only Asada tries a triple axel. Yu-Na's triple-triple starts with a lutz, and that's a hell of a lot harder than Flatt's. You get a bonus for tricks in the second half of the program.

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

So, Flatt skated clean, loaded with bonus points. I can see that gaining 135 points, but it wasn't great.

Oh, my, I sure fucked that up. 117, has to be a huge disappointment. They downgraded both triple flips. That's huge.

Edited by Chemistry Schmemistry, 25 February 2010 - 11:14 PM.

[Bellhorn]

Mao is in top shape - apparently has landed all her tripes in practice. Once you're in the groove, it's hard to get out of it. The final skaters starting now. F*ck this is nerve wrecking.

Who are you rooting for?

[BigMike]

I know she just skated a clean routine, and she is the US champ, but there is just something very awkward looking to me about Rachel Flat's performances.

Wow Ando looks hot tonight

[mpjc]

what's happened to the commentary?

[Infield Infidel]

For a supposed solid jumper, Ando flared out of at least three of her jumps.

[BigMike]

For a supposed solid jumper, Ando flared out of at least three of her jumps.

Seemed like a gift to get the 124 or so points she needed there. It just wasn't a particularly good performance

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

Ando was decent. No downgrades. Again, not great. This triple/triple to start is huge for Yu-Na.

[Jnai]

Weird that someone would go to all the trouble of inventing such a realistic robot and then use it to win a figure skating competition.

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

That was gold. Really nailed every jump as far as I can tell. And more grace and speed than Ando.

[BigMike]

That was gold. Really nailed every jump as far as I can tell. And more grace and speed than Ando.

Totally true, but Ando really isn't the competition. She is just the one hanging around in 4th and hoping someone above her F's it up completely

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

Asada needs 154.78 to tie for the gold, 114.19 for silver position. Flatt is off the podium.

[PrometheusWakefield]

Totally true, but Ando really isn't the competition. She is just the one hanging around in 4th and hoping someone above her F's it up completely

But she can feel good about being the hottest of the three.

[TimNJsoxfan]

Hamilton really gets into these doesn't he??