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OHNO: Speed Skating


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#1 Williams Head Case

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 09:20 PM

Just saw the new Dayquil commercial. Ahhhh, it wouldn't be the winter Olympics without Apollo Anton Ohno becoming relevant every four years.

#2 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 07 January 2010 - 06:14 PM

QUOTE (Williams Head Case @ Jan 6 2010, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just saw the new Dayquil commercial. Ahhhh, it wouldn't be the winter Olympics without Apollo Anton Ohno becoming relevant every four years.

What. No love for "Dancing with the Stars"?

And it's not Ohno's fault that the douchebags who run his sport can't get their heads out of their asses long enough to create meaningful, engaging, fan accesibile events in those magical "other three years".

#3 leithbones

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:17 PM

Sports Illustrated says Colbert Nation makes speed skating relevant.

#4 Maalox


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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:57 PM

The Dutch certainly seem to be interested in this. The most interesting part of speed skating is the Dutch fans all clad in orange screaming their asses off. I guess if we had more canals in the US we would take it seriously, too. It doesn't help that Ohno is a bit of a camera ham.

#5 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:49 PM

QUOTE (Maalox @ Jan 27 2010, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Dutch certainly seem to be interested in this. The most interesting part of speed skating is the Dutch fans all clad in orange screaming their asses off. I guess if we had more canals in the US we would take it seriously, too. It doesn't help that Ohno is a bit of a camera ham.

Actually the Dutch don't give a shit about Ohno. In fact, most of them don't even know who he is.

#6 Maalox


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Posted 27 January 2010 - 05:07 PM

QUOTE (Fred not Lynn @ Jan 27 2010, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually the Dutch don't give a shit about Ohno. In fact, most of them don't even know who he is.

What are you talking about? I didn't say the Dutch care about Ohno. I said they care about speed skating, relative to Americans.

"And it's not Ohno's fault that the douchebags who run his sport can't get their heads out of their asses long enough to create meaningful, engaging, fan accesibile events in those magical "other three years". "

"Sports Illustrated says Colbert Nation makes speed skating relevant."

Try to keep up.

#7 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 27 January 2010 - 05:46 PM

QUOTE (Maalox @ Jan 27 2010, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What are you talking about? I didn't say the Dutch care about Ohno. I said they care about speed skating, relative to Americans.

"And it's not Ohno's fault that the douchebags who run his sport can't get their heads out of their asses long enough to create meaningful, engaging, fan accesibile events in those magical "other three years". "

"Sports Illustrated says Colbert Nation makes speed skating relevant."

Try to keep up.

Point is; The Dutch are complete fanatics about long track speed skating. The don't give one flying fuck about short-track. In fact they have a totaly different format of speed skating called "Kortebaan" that is literally translated from the Dutch as "short track", and isn't even CLOSE to being what short-track as the rest of the world knows it is.

And Colbert doesn't make speed skating relevant. Nothing really makes speed skating massively relevant - unless for some reason you're into it.


#8 Sprowl


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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:29 PM

Vancouver built some new facilities for the Games, and the speed-skating oval in Richmond has gotten the best architectural reviews.





#9 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:46 PM

QUOTE (Sprowl @ Jan 27 2010, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Vancouver built some new facilities for the Games, and the speed-skating oval in Richmond has gotten the best architectural reviews.

Beautiful building in which a speed skating race will never occur after Feb 28, 2010.

Smart move actually - last thing anyone needs is more grandiose speed skating ovals that cost more to operate than they could possibly generate in revenue. I'd much rather see more modest, economically sustainable ovals built - and yes, built and operated wisely, it can be done.



#10 goyangfc


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Posted 28 January 2010 - 10:34 AM

The Dutch don't really care about short track speed skating. Short track speed skating is nothing without the South Koreans. However, Canada, China, and the U.S. have improved tremendously since the Turin games. I hate Ohno with a passion (yes, I am Korean).

Everyone knows what happened in 2002:


THIS will hopefully happen again in Vancouver:


EDIT: You should probably change the thread title to Short Track Speed Skating if you want to talk about Ohno and whatnot.

Edited by goyangfc, 28 January 2010 - 02:13 PM.


#11 leithbones

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 01:33 PM

QUOTE (goyangfc @ Jan 28 2010, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
EDIT: You should probably change the thread title to Short Track Speed Skating if you want to talk about Ohno and whatnot.

I've never heard of Whatnot. Is he Dutch?

#12 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 28 January 2010 - 02:56 PM

To any Korean that continues to whine about Ohno, I just have one thing to say:



(For those that don't recognize it, this is South Korean Park Si-Hun being awarded the gold medal over Roy Jones Jr. in Seoul, in one of the most corrupt decisions in Olympic history.)

Edited by SoxFanInCali, 28 January 2010 - 03:03 PM.


#13 goyangfc


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Posted 28 January 2010 - 03:36 PM

QUOTE (SoxFanInCali @ Jan 28 2010, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To any Korean that continues to whine about Ohno, I just have one thing to say:



(For those that don't recognize it, this is South Korean Park Si-Hun being awarded the gold medal over Roy Jones Jr. in Seoul, in one of the most corrupt decisions in Olympic history.)


But, we're not talking about bribery here. We're talking about something similar to Thierry Henry's handball. Park even apologized to Jones for what happened. Thierry Henry admitted that he indeed touched the ball. What did we see from Ohno? Nothing but faking his reactions to Kim's "pushing" and just taking the gold after the race.

#14 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 28 January 2010 - 04:20 PM

QUOTE (goyangfc @ Jan 28 2010, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Dutch don't really care about short track speed skating. Short track speed skating is nothing without the South Koreans. However, Canada, China, and the U.S. have improved tremendously since the Turin games. I hate Ohno with a passion (yes, I am Korean).

Everyone knows what happened in 2002:

I was at that race, and as soon as the infraction occured I thought to myself, "That's cross-tracking, but they'll never have the stones to call it".

Ohno is the perfect short-track skater. I remember the day I first saw him race, in a World Cup meet in Calgary - he had a sort of style and rythym that telegraphed that he was something special. Apolo Ohno didn't react to the races that day - the races reacted to Apolo Ohno. He just has a presence in every heat he races in.

That same day was the first time I ever saw Shani Davis skate too. My thoughts on him as a short-tracker were that he'd be really good at long track. I was right.

#15 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 31 January 2010 - 08:57 AM

QUOTE (goyangfc @ Jan 28 2010, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But, we're not talking about bribery here. We're talking about something similar to Thierry Henry's handball. Park even apologized to Jones for what happened. Thierry Henry admitted that he indeed touched the ball. What did we see from Ohno? Nothing but faking his reactions to Kim's "pushing" and just taking the gold after the race.

Funny, I don't remember the sheepish "Yeah, we totally got gifted this win" half-apology when South Korea rode the referees to the World Cup semifinal in '02.





#16 Tony the Pony


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Posted 13 February 2010 - 09:52 AM

QUOTE (Fred not Lynn @ Jan 27 2010, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Point is; The Dutch are complete fanatics about long track speed skating. The don't give one flying fuck about short-track. In fact they have a totaly different format of speed skating called "Kortebaan" that is literally translated from the Dutch as "short track", and isn't even CLOSE to being what short-track as the rest of the world knows it is.


What he said, although I wouldn't be too surprised if the Dutch short track team wins a medal in Vancouver.

5KM on the regular track this afternoon. Might be the first of three medals for Sven Kramer.

EDIT: Fred Not Lynn, did you skate with his dad?

Edited by Tony the Pony, 13 February 2010 - 09:53 AM.


#17 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 13 February 2010 - 11:19 AM

QUOTE (Tony the Pony @ Feb 13 2010, 07:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What he said, although I wouldn't be too surprised if the Dutch short track team wins a medal in Vancouver.

5KM on the regular track this afternoon. Might be the first of three medals for Sven Kramer.

EDIT: Fred Not Lynn, did you skate with his dad?

Yep Kramer was finished with internation competition by my time, but was one of the top marathons skaters then. I would be shoked if Sven didn't win 5000m today, though.

#18 SeoulSoxFan


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Posted 15 February 2010 - 03:16 AM

QUOTE (Spacemans Bong @ Jan 31 2010, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Funny, I don't remember the sheepish "Yeah, we totally got gifted this win" half-apology when South Korea rode the referees to the World Cup semifinal in '02.



Yeah, we totally got gifted this win in the 2002 WC. And Ohno is a whiny bitch who got gifted at least 2 silvers and a gold. Happy?

#19 SeoulSoxFan


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Posted 15 February 2010 - 03:18 AM

QUOTE (SoxFanInCali @ Jan 28 2010, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To any Korean that continues to whine about Ohno, I just have one thing to say:



(For those that don't recognize it, this is South Korean Park Si-Hun being awarded the gold medal over Roy Jones Jr. in Seoul, in one of the most corrupt decisions in Olympic history.)



For any Americans who bring this up and the WC in ANY Korean win, I have one thing to say:

Get over it.

#20 SeoulSoxFan


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Posted 15 February 2010 - 03:26 AM

QUOTE (goyangfc @ Jan 28 2010, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But, we're not talking about bribery here. We're talking about something similar to Thierry Henry's handball. Park even apologized to Jones for what happened. Thierry Henry admitted that he indeed touched the ball. What did we see from Ohno? Nothing but faking his reactions to Kim's "pushing" and just taking the gold after the race.


Eh - why bother. That "To any Korean that continues to whine about Ohno" line so patently ridiculous it bothers on being pathetic, as well as bringing up the World Cup. Like Americans never got a favorable decision in this soil, nor Olympics boxing was never embroiled in controversy.

Btw, Ohno just came out saying he would have "won" the gold if weren't for the Korean hand-checking. I just might root for the dude if he didn't whine and bitch after every single f*cking race that he doesn't win.

I'm looking forward to rooting for Celski in 2014 - solid skater, good technique, and not a whine out of him.

#21 SeoulSoxFan


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Posted 15 February 2010 - 03:32 AM

QUOTE (Fred not Lynn @ Jan 28 2010, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was at that race, and as soon as the infraction occured I thought to myself, "That's cross-tracking, but they'll never have the stones to call it".

Ohno is the perfect short-track skater. I remember the day I first saw him race, in a World Cup meet in Calgary - he had a sort of style and rythym that telegraphed that he was something special. Apolo Ohno didn't react to the races that day - the races reacted to Apolo Ohno. He just has a presence in every heat he races in.

That same day was the first time I ever saw Shani Davis skate too. My thoughts on him as a short-tracker were that he'd be really good at long track. I was right.


Ohno is actually a very smart skater, and it's phenomenal that he has stayed in shape for 3 straight Olympics. What he does really well is adopt to the competition, as shown by him deciding to skate out in front with the "wall" of 3 Koreans in the finals, while he stayed back in the draft and overtook the competition in the semis.

Usually the sprint is the first thing to go as short trackers age, and I don't see that with Ohno. Still fairly explosive, stays out of trouble when warranted, and perhaps is the best strategist outside Hyun-soo Ahn (the 3-time medalist in Torino who didn't make the team this time around due to injuries).

#22 JimD

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 09:32 AM

I don’t know if it’s true, but I like the story about how Ohno was practicing at the track before the Games and pointed to various coaches from other countries and was like “I skated against you, you, you and you.” I always admire the veteran guys in any sport who not only decide to come back to the Olympics and give it one last shot (with all of the commitment and effort that is required) but show that they can still give the younger guys a run for the medals.

#23 lexrageorge

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 01:39 PM

QUOTE (SoxFanInCali @ Jan 28 2010, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To any Korean that continues to whine about Ohno, I just have one thing to say:



(For those that don't recognize it, this is South Korean Park Si-Hun being awarded the gold medal over Roy Jones Jr. in Seoul, in one of the most corrupt decisions in Olympic history.)


Yes, this decision was proven later to be the work of bribery, and did cause the scoring system in Olympic boxing to be changed. However, in 1984, the US boxing team was the beneficiary of at least a couple of really bad decisions on their home soil in LA. There are some that say that Roy Jones decision was a result of some bad blood remaining from a couple of close matches involving South Koreans going the American's way.

#24 Snowplow

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 09:06 PM

I can't believe how fast he (Ohno) can go from the back of the pack to the front.

Not to Hi-jack but, If I was the Korean skater that took out his fellow countryman on the last turn , I'd be worried about death befor firing squad back in Korea.

#25 86spike


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Posted 15 February 2010 - 09:12 PM

QUOTE (Snowplow @ Feb 15 2010, 09:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't believe how fast he (Ohno) can go from the back of the pack to the front.

Not to Hi-jack but, If I was the Korean skater that took out his fellow countryman on the last turn , I'd be worried about death befor firing squad back in Korea.


south korea is different from north korea

#26 SeoulSoxFan


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Posted 15 February 2010 - 11:00 PM

Korea's Mo Tae-Bum with the country's first EVER gold in speed skating, with the time of 69.82 combined runs in men's 500m.

Unbelievable - a gold in speed skating for us midgets (Asian skaters take the first 4 places to boot.)

Japan's Nagashima and Kato takes silver and bronze, with the Korea's previous hopeful Lee Kang-Seok taking 4th place. Finland's Mika Poutala, who had finished 3rd in World Cup and who was leading the 1st run, craps the bed with the 11th best time in 2nd run and takes 5th.

Edited by SeoulSoxFan, 15 February 2010 - 11:01 PM.


#27 SeoulSoxFan


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Posted 15 February 2010 - 11:09 PM

QUOTE (86spike @ Feb 15 2010, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
south korea is different from north korea



But South Korea's cyber mob mentality is a sight to behold (and fear.) The day it happened over 270,000 "netizens" visited his equivalent of Facebook page and brought the server down, and needless to say the comments were not kind.

He is getting the full Bill Buckner treatment as we speak.

Edited by SeoulSoxFan, 15 February 2010 - 11:09 PM.


#28 goyangfc


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Posted 16 February 2010 - 12:07 AM

QUOTE (SeoulSoxFan @ Feb 15 2010, 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But South Korea's cyber mob mentality is a sight to behold (and fear.) The day it happened over 270,000 "netizens" visited his equivalent of Facebook page and brought the server down, and needless to say the comments were not kind.

He is getting the full Bill Buckner treatment as we speak.


I wasn't one of the netizens. wink.gif

A HUGE gold for the Koreans tonight, indeed.

#29 SeoulSoxFan


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Posted 16 February 2010 - 12:18 AM

QUOTE (SoxFanInCali @ Jan 28 2010, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To any Korean that continues to whine about Ohno, I just have one thing to say:

(For those that don't recognize it, this is South Korean Park Si-Hun being awarded the gold medal over Roy Jones Jr. in Seoul, in one of the most corrupt decisions in Olympic history.)



And "to any American" who don't follow the sport nor really care, Ohno is not exactly known as a skater without infractions or dirty tricks. There are a dozen videos that highlight his "techniques", including this one:



"For those that don't recognize it", during the last turn (around 0:54 / 0:55 mark), he clearly pushes the Canadian out of the way, spilling him and out of the medals.

It's all part of the sport that's been somewhat unfairly labeled as rollerblading on ice, but for Ohno to complain about losing the gold in 2010 for being "pushed" is fairly laughable.



#30 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 16 February 2010 - 01:10 AM

QUOTE (SeoulSoxFan @ Feb 15 2010, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But South Korea's cyber mob mentality is a sight to behold (and fear.) The day it happened over 270,000 "netizens" visited his equivalent of Facebook page and brought the server down, and needless to say the comments were not kind.

He is getting the full Bill Buckner treatment as we speak.

Maybe they should use this incident as evidence that the Koreans don't chronically team skate - and that they're all out there as individuals racing against each other as much as the guys from other countries.

That said, I think the rule against team skating is stupid - how on earth are you every going to be able to prove that?

Nice race, by the way today from Mo Tae Bum. No one's first race was very inspiring - but his second round was special. Juxtuposed against Wotherspoon's flatness, he just had a spring in his step.

Edited by Fred not Lynn, 16 February 2010 - 01:11 AM.


#31 86spike


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Posted 19 February 2010 - 09:03 AM

so Ohno is the bad sport?

yahoo story

QUOTE
The traditional rivalry between Ohno and the South Koreans flared up again in that race, the 1,500 meters. Three South Koreans were in the lead as they rounded the last turn, but two crashed out, allowing Ohno to slip across the finish line in second.

Incensed gold medalist Lee Jung-su criticized Ohno as “too aggressive” in a post-race news conference.

“Ohno didn’t deserve to stand on the same medal platform as me,” he told Yonhap. “I was so enraged that it was hard for me to contain myself during the victory ceremony.”


Dear Lee Jung-su: grow up

#32 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 20 February 2010 - 11:00 PM

QUOTE (SeoulSoxFan @ Feb 15 2010, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And "to any American" who don't follow the sport nor really care, Ohno is not exactly known as a skater without infractions or dirty tricks. There are a dozen videos that highlight his "techniques", including this one:



"For those that don't recognize it", during the last turn (around 0:54 / 0:55 mark), he clearly pushes the Canadian out of the way, spilling him and out of the medals.

It's all part of the sport that's been somewhat unfairly labeled as rollerblading on ice, but for Ohno to complain about losing the gold in 2010 for being "pushed" is fairly laughable.

Bacause you really seem to be taking my Roy Jones post personally (since you responded to it twice) I'll tell you that I really could care less whether Ohno is dirty or not. I admit that I watch this every 4 years like most casual winter sports fans do, but come on. By its very nature, there is going to be controversy or a crash in a number of races. I guarantee that if you watch film of enough races you can find footage of every single competitor that would justify a DQ that didn't get called. The DQ in the 2002 race was hardly an anomaly, it's something that's a part of the sport. It's not "rollerblading on ice", but it's definitely not as clear cut as long-track in making sure the winner is actually the best skater on the day.

I threw up the Jones picture AFTER goyangfc talked about Ohno in 2002 and posted videos. Just having a little fun at his expense (mostly because he roots for Man U). If it really bothers you that much, I'm sorry. I do get sick of it being the first thing every Korean brings up, though.

Yes, we get it. Korea hates the guy. I'm American, not Korean. I root for the laundry (USA! USA!), same as you. I would think that on this board, we could get away with a little nationalistic banter during the Olympics without anyone getting too upset.

And yes, I thought it was hilarious that Ohno got a medal because the 2 Koreans took each other out.

#33 SeoulSoxFan


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Posted 20 February 2010 - 11:35 PM

QUOTE (SoxFanInCali @ Feb 20 2010, 11:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bacause you really seem to be taking my Roy Jones post personally (since you responded to it twice) I'll tell you that I really could care less whether Ohno is dirty or not. I admit that I watch this every 4 years like most casual winter sports fans do, but come on. By its very nature, there is going to be controversy or a crash in a number of races. I guarantee that if you watch film of enough races you can find footage of every single competitor that would justify a DQ that didn't get called. The DQ in the 2002 race was hardly an anomaly, it's something that's a part of the sport. It's not "rollerblading on ice", but it's definitely not as clear cut as long-track in making sure the winner is actually the best skater on the day.

I threw up the Jones picture AFTER goyangfc talked about Ohno in 2002 and posted videos. Just having a little fun at his expense (mostly because he roots for Man U). If it really bothers you that much, I'm sorry. I do get sick of it being the first thing every Korean brings up, though.

Yes, we get it. Korea hates the guy. I'm American, not Korean. I root for the laundry (USA! USA!), same as you. I would think that on this board, we could get away with a little nationalistic banter during the Olympics without anyone getting too upset.

And yes, I thought it was hilarious that Ohno got a medal because the 2 Koreans took each other out.



Now now, what I wanted to do is to really accentuate the pure ridiculousness of bringing up Roy Jones, but nothing personal. Now Ohno to Koreans is pretty much what ARod is to Sox fans, so "we" think he's a whiny SoB, but only because like ARod there's an inherent talent, charisma, and passion in what Ohno does.

And yes, I thought it was hilarious that Jones got his gold taken after so many US boxers got favorable decisions in the past wink.gif

P.S. Did you know that Ohno was given a standing ovation in a World Championship held in Seoul a couple of years ago when he won two events? No Roy Jones in the stands, but plenty of laundry-rootin', flag-waving, sport-crazy Koreans who recognized what Ohno was doing and gave him the respect he deserved. He is now getting the heat simply because he flaps his mouth.


#34 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 21 February 2010 - 02:33 AM

Not to keep talking about boxing in a skating thread, but it's kind of funny that 3 of the best boxers the US has produced in this generation (Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones, and Floyd Mayweather Jr.) all ended up on the wrong end of controversial decisions in the Olympics.

I do know Ohno was applauded at that World Championships. I also know that the entire US team didn't go to Korea for an event shortly after 2002 because of death threats (I'm not blaming Korea in general for that, obviously it only takes 1 extremist to call in a threat). I can understand why Koreans would dislike him in an ARod kind of way, but it seems like Ohno in Korea, is like how Boston hates ARod, Clemens, Munson, and Steinbrenner all rolled into one. It just seems the level of hatred is a bit excessive, and seems to go way beyond the sport of short track (we all remember the skating motion during the World Cup).

I know Korea and Japan have a history, and Korea loves any chance to beat them in sports. Do you think Ohno's Japanese heritage play into the level of hatred at all?

#35 JimD

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 09:41 AM

I get where you guys are coming from with the Ohno-ARod comparisons, but they lose something when you consider Apolo's success in the 2002 and 2006 games and the sport in general. ARod's repeated failure in the playoffs until 2009 was a key part of the narrative.

#36 SumnerH


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Posted 21 February 2010 - 03:26 PM

QUOTE (JimD @ Feb 21 2010, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I get where you guys are coming from with the Ohno-ARod comparisons


I don't. Probably his most famous moment was when he got taken out of the lead at the Salt Lake City Olympics in a crash where almost everyone went down; only the guy who was in last place stayed up, winning gold. Ohno wound up with six stitches in his leg after getting tagged by a skate.

My lasting memory of Ohno is the media trying to bait him into saying it was someone else's fault, and him just repeating "guys, that's short track. It's how the sport works", or something like that.

An A-Rod type would have whined incessantly and said he deserved the win.

#37 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 21 February 2010 - 03:32 PM

QUOTE (SumnerH @ Feb 21 2010, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't. Probably his most famous moment was when he got taken out of the lead at the Salt Lake City Olympics in a crash where almost everyone went down; only the guy who was in last place stayed up, winning gold. Ohno wound up with six stitches in his leg after getting tagged by a skate.

My lasting memory of Ohno is the media trying to bait him into saying it was someone else's fault, and him just repeating "guys, that's short track. It's how the sport works", or something like that.

An A-Rod type would have whined incessantly and said he deserved the win.

Short track shouldn't be a one-race-one-medal sport. You need a little sample size to name a champion in a sport like that. They should follow the World Championship format - race a whole set of 500-1000-1500 heat thru to finals, and then put the top 6 on the line for a 3000m...top point scorer wins. That's one reason Ohno has so many medals - his sport has too many races in which athlete skill is pretty much the same (i.e. the 1500m is pretty much exactly the same as the 1000m - but with a few extra laps of dicking around at the beginning.)

#38 Saturnian

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 11:08 AM

Don't know how many stuck around to watch Costas interview Ohno last night, but Ohno might be the least likable American Olympian ever. I thought his immediate reaction after the 1000m final showed a glimmer of humility: "I got myself into prime position to win the race, but made one mistake that took me out of it" (roughly). Then, last night, he says, (paraphrasing again), "At first I thought I had made a mistake, but after watching the tape, that Canadian guy put his hand on me and messed me up. My losing was not my fault." Watching the race live (-ish?), I saw the Canadian put his hand on Ohno's hip; if the contact was severe enough to make Ohno slip, you think maybe he would have felt it at the time?

Also, like FnL mentions, how different are these short track races really? I personally find Bode Miller's five medals more impressive (across four disciplines, including a combined and a super combined which incorporate the fifth discipline, slalom) than Ohno's seven medals.

#39 JimD

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 12:28 PM

Short track speedskating is fun to watch, but the basic dynamics of the sport are ridiculous if you think about them too much. Would anyone propose sending four downhill skiers down the mountain at the same time? Maybe we can make the sliding track wider and send out four bobsleds or lugers at a time.

At minimum, short track should use competitor’s times during quarterfinal and semifinal heats instead of top two finishers in a group to determine who advances to the next round. You would still have all the strategy and jostling but do away with having lesser competitors advance just because they were lucky enough to avoid getting slotted in a heat with top racers.


#40 TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 12:43 PM

QUOTE (JimD @ Feb 22 2010, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Short track speedskating is fun to watch, but the basic dynamics of the sport are ridiculous if you think about them too much. Would anyone propose sending four downhill skiers down the mountain at the same time? Maybe we can make the sliding track wider and send out four bobsleds or lugers at a time.

At minimum, short track should use competitor's times during quarterfinal and semifinal heats instead of top two finishers in a group to determine who advances to the next round. You would still have all the strategy and jostling but do away with having lesser competitors advance just because they were lucky enough to avoid getting slotted in a heat with top racers.


They actually do this, you know. It's called ski cross.

#41 SoxFanInCali


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Posted 22 February 2010 - 12:57 PM

The times in short track are almost irrelevant, anyways. In the longer races, they aren't going hard at all for the first few laps, they're just getting into position for the final sprint. They only kick it up for the last couple of laps.

You can't really blame them for this, as they have to do preliminary heats and the final with very little rest in between. It just makes it kind of silly when you watch both the 1,000 and 1,500 meters, because the only difference is that they do an additional 500 meters at cruising speed at the beginning.

#42 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 22 February 2010 - 03:28 PM

QUOTE (JimD @ Feb 22 2010, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Short track speedskating is fun to watch, but the basic dynamics of the sport are ridiculous if you think about them too much. Would anyone propose sending four downhill skiers down the mountain at the same time? Maybe we can make the sliding track wider and send out four bobsleds or lugers at a time.

At minimum, short track should use competitor’s times during quarterfinal and semifinal heats instead of top two finishers in a group to determine who advances to the next round. You would still have all the strategy and jostling but do away with having lesser competitors advance just because they were lucky enough to avoid getting slotted in a heat with top racers.

If you used times from the early rounds to determins advancement, you'd advance skaters who were lucky enough to get in a heat with a faster guy who dragged them to a faster time. Eack packstlye race has its own charachter -- some where there's piles of dicking around and a one lap sprint, some where some kamikaze takes it out hard from the gun.

They don't really pay much mind to times in short track anymore...and emphasis on world records is being phased out. To set a world record, you'd need to get cooperation between all the guys in the race - it'd look like the pursuit in Long Track. They have a meet in Calgary every year with a format that encourages this. The other thing is that ISU is considering measures to make the sport slower - its already too fast for the standard North American 85' wide rink (they need 100' x 200' international size rinks for any top level competition). Frankly if it gets any faster, sooner or later a short tracker is going to be riding the Georgian Luge out of the building.

#43 SumnerH


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Posted 22 February 2010 - 04:51 PM

QUOTE (Saturnian @ Feb 22 2010, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don't know how many stuck around to watch Costas interview Ohno last night, but Ohno might be the least likable American Olympian ever. I thought his immediate reaction after the 1000m final showed a glimmer of humility: "I got myself into prime position to win the race, but made one mistake that took me out of it" (roughly). Then, last night, he says, (paraphrasing again), "At first I thought I had made a mistake, but after watching the tape, that Canadian guy put his hand on me and messed me up. My losing was not my fault."


Yeah, that was totally whiny and unlike how he handled the Salt Lake City crash. It's pretty rare to see an athlete become less gracious around the media with age.

#44 SeoulSoxFan


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Posted 23 February 2010 - 07:07 PM

Unbelievable - Kramer was all set to win his 2nd gold in the men's long track 10k meters, but breaks the simplest of all rules by illegally switching lanes. The kicker is it was the COACH who made the mistake and told him to switch lanes.

http://www.nbcolympi...amer gold medal

QUOTE
NBC has learned Kramer's coach, Gerard Kemkers, directed the skater to switch to the inside lane, when he was supposed to stay on the outside. After the race, Kemkers told Kramer what he had done. Kramer reacted with disbelief, then slung away his glasses in disgust.


Gold goes to Seung-hoon Lee, who is quoted as saying "Kramer is a great skater, and I just hoped to medal, but tonight the heaven helped". Well, the heaven has a name, and it is Gerard Kemkers, Kramer's coach who made the amazing gaffe.

#45 JimD

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 11:29 PM

I guess Kramer should have saved his 'Are you stupid?' line for his coach instead of some anonymous TV reporter.

They're going to need both an armed guard and a suicide watch for that coach. I can't even think of a parallel in US sports that would enrage the fans the way that guy's screwup will piss off the Dutch skating crazies.

#46 Fred not Lynn


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Posted 24 February 2010 - 01:51 AM

QUOTE (JimD @ Feb 23 2010, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I guess Kramer should have saved his 'Are you stupid?' line for his coach instead of some anonymous TV reporter.

They're going to need both an armed guard and a suicide watch for that coach. I can't even think of a parallel in US sports that would enrage the fans the way that guy's screwup will piss off the Dutch skating crazies.


Bill Buckner, Grady Little and Merkle come to mind..Stiil, remember, they dont take away the 5k Gold no matter how bad you fuck up the 10k.

Only the Dutch will understand this though; Better to have Gerard Kemkers make a big mistake at his job, than have Leo Visser make one at his.

(Kemkers and Visser were both top skaters in the late 80's - Kemkers is now a speed skating coach, Visser is a pilot for KLM)

Edited by Fred not Lynn, 24 February 2010 - 05:08 AM.


#47 ookami7m

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 07:11 PM

semi related note - anyone know the song that's playing in the Ohno commercial where he skates the track loose? its frickin catchy

-five minutes - well done tfp

Edited by ookami7m, 24 February 2010 - 07:40 PM.


#48 The Four Peters


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Posted 24 February 2010 - 07:16 PM

QUOTE (ookami7m @ Feb 24 2010, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
semi related note - anyone know the song that's playing in the Ohno commercial where he skates the track loose? its frickin catchy

It's Intro by The xx.



#49 shawnrbu


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Posted 24 February 2010 - 10:17 PM

South Korean women's 3,000 m relay team disqualified when they had their 5th consecutive Gold in the bag.

#50 mpjc

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 10:17 PM

wow, that was a surprise. is that sort of bump unusual in the relay?