1188 replies to this topic

[Ed Hillel]

Remember last season when we were all like LETS GET KARLOS DANSBY IN THE OFFSEASON!


Yeah, fuck.

Remember when he got franchised?

Edited by Ed Hillel, 10 January 2010 - 08:28 PM.

[CaptainLaddie]

Thank you. I wonder if that is the highest rating ever in a post season game?

A perfect one.

http://en.wikipedia....t_passer_rating

[johnmd20]

A perfect one.

http://en.wikipedia....t_passer_rating

Phenomenal list and it's amazing wiki updated it already. He's tied with Peyton Manning, Dave Krieg, Terry Bradshaw, and Don Meredith for a perfect rating in a playoff game.

[DukeSox]

A perfect one.

http://en.wikipedia....t_passer_rating

This is a more fun list:

http://en.wikipedia...._rating_of_zero

[Gunfighter 09]

http://scores.espn.g...ameId=300110022 154.1

6 different Cardinals caught 3 balls or more.

The best is that Warner absolutely lost his shit yelling at Early Doucet on one of his 4 incompletions. I dont see how any reasonable observer can question Kurt Warner as a hall of famer. If we were to get to a fourth and win a second Super Bowl you might have to put him in the top five of all time.

[SoxFanInPdx]

What a heartbreaker for the Packers, but to be fair whoever loses that is gonna be on a bender for a week.

[bosockboy]

6 different Cardinals caught 3 balls or more.

The best is that Warner absolutely lost his shit yelling at Early Doucet on one of his 4 incompletions. I dont see how any reasonable observer can question Kurt Warner as a hall of famer. If we were to get to a fourth and win a second Super Bowl you might have to put him in the top five of all time.

The thing to remember about Warner is how he played in the 2 SB he lost. He won that game for AZ last year and his defense betrayed him, and one of the more forgotten drives in SB history was the gutsy drive and touchdown to Proehl that tied the Pats. He's never come up small in the playoffs...ever.

[Gunfighter 09]

The thing to remember about Warner is how he played in the 2 SB he lost. He won that game for AZ last year and his defense betrayed him, and one of the more forgotten drives in SB history was the gutsy drive and touchdown to Proehl that tied the Pats. He's never come up small in the playoffs...ever.

He left the field with the lead in all three Superbowls. In all three his team scored a touchdown the last time they had the ball.

[Bellhorn]

For a team that was sixth in the NFL in pass defense DVOA, the Packers sure were susceptible to getting absolutely killed by certain pass offenses.

[Bellhorn]

He left the field with the lead in all three Superbowls.

No he didn't.

[RedOctober3829]

For a team that was sixth in the NFL in pass defense DVOA, the Packers sure were susceptible to getting absolutely killed by certain pass offenses.

That's why those metrics are bullshit. The Patriots were measured as a top 10 team all year according to those. Yea, about that....

[SoxFanInCali]

He left the field with the lead in all three Superbowls. In all three his team scored a touchdown the last time they had the ball.

He gave the Rams the lead against the Titans and the Cardinals the lead against the Steelers, but the last drive in the Rams-Pats game only tied it. And technically, he did get on the field at the end last year without scoring, but he didn't have enough time (Holmes scored the winner for Pitt with 35 seconds to go).

The thing to remember about Warner is how he played in the 2 SB he lost. He won that game for AZ last year and his defense betrayed him, and one of the more forgotten drives in SB history was the gutsy drive and touchdown to Proehl that tied the Pats. He's never come up small in the playoffs...ever.

He's only lost 3 playoff games. You covered the 2 in the Super Bowls. The other one, the Rams were down 31-7 with 12 minutes to go against the Saints. He led them back to 31-28 and would have had a chance to win it if Az Hakim hadn't muffed a punt in the last 2 minutes.

Edited by SoxFanInCali, 10 January 2010 - 09:06 PM.

[Gunfighter 09]

No he didn't.

Ok fine. lead or tied.

[Gunfighter 09]

That's why those metrics are bullshit. The Patriots were measured as a top 10 team all year according to those. Yea, about that....

Well, the Ravens were the #1 DVOA team in the NFL.

[CaptainLaddie]

Phenomenal list and it's amazing wiki updated it already. He's tied with Peyton Manning, Dave Krieg, Terry Bradshaw, and Don Meredith for a perfect rating in a playoff game.

He didn't have a perfect rating today.

[Bellhorn]

That's why those metrics are bullshit. The Patriots were measured as a top 10 team all year according to those. Yea, about that....

Sure, let's ignore the obvious conceptual validity and demonstrated predictive accuracy of metrics when they don't tell us what we expect to hear...it's a great approach, if you want to end up writing for the Globe sports section

[RedOctober3829]

Sure, let's ignore the obvious conceptual validity and demonstrated predictive accuracy of metrics when they don't tell us what we expect to hear...it's a great approach, if you want to end up writing for the Globe sports section

I'm not expecting them to tell me anything that I already know from watching the games. The Patriots weren't the 4th best team in the NFL as the DVOA rankings tell me. A ratings system that ranks the Patriots 4th(with an offensive DVOA of #1???!!) has flaws.

[dylanmarsh]

What's really funny is that half the stadium didn't even know the Cards won. Where I was sitting, we thought they sacked Rodgers and then realized it was a TD when the Cards stormed the field. Crazy fucking game.

[johnmd20]

I'm not expecting them to tell me anything that I already know from watching the games. The Patriots weren't the 4th best team in the NFL as the DVOA rankings tell me. A ratings system that ranks the Patriots 4th(with an offensive DVOA of #1???!!) has flaws.

Well, the Ravens were ranked first, so who knows how this weekend would have looked if the Pats could have hosted the Jets or, better, Cincinnati. Still, DVOA had the Ravens as the best team in the league and they proved yesterday why they might have deserved that title.

DVOA has the Eagles 3rd and Dallas 5th and Dallas just walloped the Eagles two weeks in a row. That's a fail.

DVOA has the Jets at 10 and Cinn at 20 and the Jets just whipped them twice in a row. That's a good call.

DVOA has GB 2nd and Arizona 13th and GB killed them one game and yesterday was as close as the score would suggest. So it's a push. GB's DVOA defensive rank is 2 and Kurt Warner put up one of the best playoff games of all time, so that output didn't shower the DVOA rankings in glory.

However, each individual stat is worth paying attention to and I think DVOA has some merits, but it has flaws. That's the game, though. In football, none of the stats are created in a vacuum like they are in baseball, so they are not perfect.

[dcmissle]

This is pretty good, via PFT.com:

Cardinals safety Antrel Rolle got a taste of Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers on Sunday, a week after facing him in Week 17.

And Rolle has no interest in a third helping.

"Let me tell you something - that dude is scary," Rolle said of Rodgers, per Michael Silver of Yahoo! Sports. "We have a great defense, and we were up on him and ready to pounce, and he found ways to tear us apart.

"I don't ever want to face him again in my life. I am dead serious. I'll face Drew Brees any day of the week before I face him again."

Rolle gets his wish on a day coming later this week, when the Cardinals go to New Orleans for a division-round playoff game.

(And we've got a feeling someone will share Rolle's observations with Brees.)

Though the compliment likely won't do much to make Packers fans feel better about a bad season turned good but ultimately gone bad, Rodgers seems to be doing a great job of replacing Brett Favre.

And Rodgers has plenty of football left in him.

[David Laurila]

It goes without saying that the officials didn't cost the Packers the game -- any time you give up 51 points you deserve to lose -- but it will be interesting to see if the league issues a comment on the two non-calls at the end of the game. With the amount of protection awarded quarterbacks these days (far too much in my opinion), it is quite odd that a helmet-to-helmet hit wasn't flagged, nor was Rogers getting dragged to the turf by his facemask on the game-ending turnover.

[trekfan55]

OK, I saw the last play about 20 times and saw the clear as day facemask that was never called.

My question is: If any referee throws a flag for the facemask, what result do we get? Is it an automatic first down for GB and the interception is wpied off? Or because possession had already changed (and it looked like it had) do the Cardinals get penalized 15 yards? (which would have still put them in a position to win)

I don't think a facemask is a reviewable call, but maybe they could have reviewed who had the ball when the facemask happened, had the facemask been called?

Just curious because that missed call could have been a game changer. Anyone who knows more about the rules than me care to help me out?

[Bowlerman9]

OK, I saw the last play about 20 times and saw the clear as day facemask that was never called.

My question is: If any referee throws a flag for the facemask, what result do we get? Is it an automatic first down for GB and the interception is wpied off? Or because possession had already changed (and it looked like it had) do the Cardinals get penalized 15 yards? (which would have still put them in a position to win)

I don't think a facemask is a reviewable call, but maybe they could have reviewed who had the ball when the facemask happened, had the facemask been called?

Just curious because that missed call could have been a game changer. Anyone who knows more about the rules than me care to help me out?

If the facemask happened AFTER the defensive player had clear possession, then Arizona is penalized 15 yards from the spot of the foul. If it happened before possession (as in, Rogers has the ball or the ball is in the air), then GB keeps the ball and moves 15 yards forward with an automatic 1st down.

[trekfan55]

If the facemask happened AFTER the defensive player had clear possession, then Arizona is penalized 15 yards from the spot of the foul. If it happened before possession (as in, Rogers has the ball or the ball is in the air), then GB keeps the ball and moves 15 yards forward with an automatic 1st down.

OK, thanks. I'll try to find a take on the play where I can see if the facemask ocurred before or after the change of possession. I am also assuming that had the foul been called they can review the play as for who had possession of the ball (review originating from upstairs because it's in OT). Correct?

[Dan Murfman]

A little info from Peter King on the final play from Twitter:

Why there was no facemask called on the final play, when Adams had his hand on Rodgers' mask and drove him to the ground. The referee, Scott Green, stands behind the pocket and has to watch first for the loose ball. Once the ball is out, Green's job is to watch ball for possession. He can't watch the QB then. If he saw the facemask, it'd mean he wasn't watching ball. It's a quirky rule, but it's the referee's call--and the ref is charged with possession once the ball is loose.

Why no face mask?

[ColoradoJack]

OK, thanks. I'll try to find a take on the play where I can see if the facemask ocurred before or after the change of possession. I am also assuming that had the foul been called they can review the play as for who had possession of the ball (review originating from upstairs because it's in OT). Correct?

well before....here is a link to the front page of the Denver Post. The picture is very clear what happened. Packers ball. Automatic first down.

here it is:

Edited by ColoradoJack, 11 January 2010 - 11:53 AM.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

well before....here is a link to the front page of the Denver Post. The picture is very clear what happened. Packers ball. Automatic first down.

here it is:

But the ball was knocked loose before the hand got on the facemask. Dansby recovered the ball while it was in the air. No idea what the proper call should be there, since the fumble happened first.

[ColoradoJack]

But the ball was knocked loose before the hand got on the facemask. Dansby recovered the ball while it was in the air. No idea what the proper call should be there, since the fumble happened first.

I'm fairly certain that until possesion changes (i.e. the Cardinals recover/intercept) the ball is still Green Bay's. In this case it is clear the facemask has occurred before change of possession. In fairness to the official, there is a lot going on here so I'm not surprised he missed it. Just part of the game I reckon.

[trekfan55]

But the ball was knocked loose before the hand got on the facemask. Dansby recovered the ball while it was in the air. No idea what the proper call should be there, since the fumble happened first.

Thanks for the pic. My other question is why this doesn't get more coverage? This call cpould have been a game changer, like I suspected. I remember a Niners-Giants game where the Giants missed a last minute field goal that would have won the game for them (this after blowing like a 28 or so point lead) and then all hell broke loose, there were flags all over the place (the call on the field was Ineligible Man Downfield, the game was over, the Niners proceeded to get trounced by Tampa Bay). After that the story all over the place was that a penalty should habe been called on a Niner defenseman and the Giants should have been allowed to rekick. Did not change the outcome of the game, but a lot of noise was made. I have not seen any noise here, and we know that with the way the defenses were playing a Green Bay first down could have meant a score.

As to SJH's question, that is basically my question too. Anyone knwo the answer? Why hasn't the league spoken?

[Deathofthebambino]

I can understand how they missed the facemask with all that was going on with the play, but the reality is, it should never be missed when it's that obvious. Not only did he have his hands on his facemask when almost immediately as the picture shows, he continued to hold it there all the way until he brought Rodgers to the ground. It was remarkable to me, because it was one of the longest facemasks I'd seen in a while.

That said, there was no excuse whatsoever for the penalty to have been missed on the play before that. It was a textbook violation of the rule on helmet to helmet hits on the quarterback. Both plays would have given the Packers 15 yards and a first down and with the way that game was going, that's probably all that they would have needed to finish the drive and score. IMO, you never know what would have happened after the fact, but there is a better than 75% chance that GB would be playing next week instead of Arizona had they not missed both calls.

[ColoradoJack]

That said, there was no excuse whatsoever for the penalty to have been missed on the play before that. It was a textbook violation of the rule on helmet to helmet hits on the quarterback. Both plays would have given the Packers 15 yards and a first down and with the way that game was going, that's probably all that they would have needed to finish the drive and score. IMO, you never know what would have happened after the fact, but there is a better than 75% chance that GB would be playing next week instead of Arizona had they not missed both calls.

Absolutely agree although it may only have resulted in offsetting penalties (the Packers had been called for holding)....who knows, maybe the ref didn't feel like throwing his hat but anyway you look at it a terrible no-call from Mr Green. Even Bertrand Berry was expecting a flag.

Packers fans have got to be sick today.

Edited by ColoradoJack, 11 January 2010 - 01:55 PM.

[dwightinright]

As to SJH's question, that is basically my question too. Anyone know the answer? Why hasn't the league spoken?

Depends on when the foul occurs. This guy says it better than I can:

If it happened after the possession change, the Cardinals would have gotten the turnover and had to score with their offense. If it was determined the foul happened before the Cards gained possession, the Packers would have retained the football and been awarded 15 yards and a first down (they call this the "clean hands" stipulation, meaning you can't get the ball on a change of possession unless you haven't committed a penalty. If you had committed a penalty, you didn't get the ball with clean hands).

http://nfl.fanhouse....ng-controversy/

But the ball was knocked loose before the hand got on the facemask. Dansby recovered the ball while it was in the air. No idea what the proper call should be there, since the fumble happened first.

Doesn't matter. The picture clearly shows a foul before the Cardinals get possession.

Edited by dwightinright, 11 January 2010 - 02:13 PM.

[SoxFan58]

Packers fans have got to be sick today.

I Would be, but if you saw my earlier post in the thread this really just has become par for the course.

[Bowlerman9]

Not sure where to put this .... but it needs to be somewhere:

http://profootballta...st-videos-ever/

[Mystic Merlin]

There are roughly 6 teams still alive that I cannot stomach seeing win it all.

I will be pulling hard for the winner of the NO/AZ matchup.

EDIT - I suppose BAL wouldn't be terrible.

Edited by Mystic Merlin, 11 January 2010 - 09:24 PM.

[David Laurila]

Over at ESPN.com, some guy named Kevin Seifort wrote:

"Arizona cornerback Michael Adams caught his right index finger on Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers’ facemask. Had a penalty been called, Karlos Dansby's game-winning touchdown would have bee nullified. A picture is worth a thousand words, but it also captures a split-second in time."

Seifort's bio says that he came to ESPN from Minnesota, where he covered the Vikings for eight years. That might help explain any bias (ya think?), but "caught his index finger" and "split second"? Either this guy didn't actually watch the game or is the equivalent of a delusional Yankees fan insisting that A-Rod didn't make contact with Bronson Arroyo's glove.

[CreedBratton]

There are roughly 6 teams still alive that I cannot stomach seeing win it all.

I will be pulling hard for the winner of the NO/AZ matchup.

EDIT - I suppose BAL wouldn't be terrible.

Same here. Only two teams I like that are left are the Saints and Cardinals and of course they are playing each other. Either way, one of those two better win this thing. I couldn't handle seeing Peyton or Favre being handed that trophy.

[86spike]

A little info from Peter King on the final play from Twitter:

Why there was no facemask called on the final play, when Adams had his hand on Rodgers' mask and drove him to the ground. The referee, Scott Green, stands behind the pocket and has to watch first for the loose ball. Once the ball is out, Green's job is to watch ball for possession. He can't watch the QB then. If he saw the facemask, it'd mean he wasn't watching ball. It's a quirky rule, but it's the referee's call--and the ref is charged with possession once the ball is loose.

Why no face mask?

So the referee is the only official watching? Is he the only official allowed to flag a facemask penalty? Where the hell was the rest of his crew?

Horrible officiating.

[dwightinright]

So the referee is the only official watching? Is he the only official allowed to flag a facemask penalty? Where the hell was the rest of his crew?

The rest of the crew was watching their assigned areas. You don't think every official watches the ball do you?