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Los Gigantes: 2009-10 Offseason Thread


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#1 The Smart Dope

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 02:28 AM

As of 11/8/09, the following has happened for the Giants offseason:

Possible Targets for the Giants in the Offseason:

Johnny Damon Heyman Article
Jason Bay Shea Article
Matt Holliday
Garrett Atkins (John Shea; SF Chronical)


Recent Signings, Hirings, Firings, and DFAs:

Hensley Meulens hired as hitting coach, taking over the position from Carney Lansford.
10/30: 2B Freddy Sanchez re-signed for 2Y @ 12M.
(Not a terrible move, yet not great. I'd say it's below average, based on his awful performance in the Bay last year, but things can always change.)
10/30:
(Noah Lowry taken off the 40 man, making him a FA. (I can see Oakland taking him on as a project. He hasn't played since 2007.)



Lincecum Pot Update (yeah, some V&N in here): The charge will dropped, but Tim agrees to pay $250 (for pipe possession), and an additional $122 for speeding. That's just pocket change for him; but Grant Hansen claims that this is typical procedure for this type of case. Chronicle Blog

Remember Wagner Mateo? He's a 16-year old who signed with St. Louis in September, but never signed because of a failed eye exam. According to various sources, he's expected to sign with the Giants soon.

Players that are Arbitration Eligible:

Tim Lincecum (Super 2, by 8 days; he's probably going to set an record here)
Brian Wilson
Jonathan Sanchez (even though he isn't a Super 2, I'm guessing he gets more money than he would otherwise because of the no hitter. Does that make him worth it the extra money? No, but, sometimes that plays a part in those type of things.)
Ryan Garko



---
On a side note, if any of you could be so kind as to teach me how to get a word like 'Link' to an article, you'd be my savior. Thanks in advance, and your action is much appreciated.

#2 Mr Jums

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 03:42 PM

QUOTE (The Smart Dope @ Nov 8 2009, 02:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
On a side note, if any of you could be so kind as to teach me how to get a word like 'Link' to an article, you'd be my savior. Thanks in advance, and your action is much appreciated.


I tried to send you a message on how to do this, but your mailbox is full. Next time you have the window open for a full reply (not a quick one) there's a little button on the bottom right that says BB Code Help. Click on that, a window pops up that answers how to do a lot of things, and if you're asking about what I think you're asking about, it's in there.

#3 The Smart Dope

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 04:11 PM

QUOTE (Mr Jums @ Nov 8 2009, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I tried to send you a message on how to do this, but your mailbox is full. Next time you have the window open for a full reply (not a quick one) there's a little button on the bottom right that says BB Code Help. Click on that, a window pops up that answers how to do a lot of things, and if you're asking about what I think you're asking about, it's in there.


Thanks for the help! Absofamalise also sent me a PM on how to to this; I finally got it! Now, I can put it into use, as I do have an update.

According to the Mercury News Blog, 16-year old OF Wagner Mateo and the Giants are not close to signing a deal; and there is a chance there will be no deal signed. I wish the kid the best; I've struggled with vision for my entire life.

#4 The Smart Dope

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 07:25 PM

As you all likely know, and much to my happiness, Tim Lincecum has won the Cy Young again. Holy cow, that's going to be some arbitration number he's getting next year... $17 million?

Smoke the right way, Tim... use a Cuban cigar to celebrate.

Edited by The Smart Dope, 19 November 2009 - 07:26 PM.


#5 gaelgirl


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Posted 20 November 2009 - 06:12 AM

I'm not a Spanish language speaker by any means, but I'm fairly confident it's Los Gigantes rather than El.

Regardless, Timmy's going to get a massive amount of money, one way or another. And he deserves it.

Also: recap of the Angel Villalona situation: Was given a massive signing bonus as a 16-year-old prospect a few years back ($2.1 million). He's been average thus far, as I understand, and was injured toward the end of last season. He went home to the DR for a few weeks before being scheduled to return for off-season conditioning/fall leagues/whatever.

Here's where it gets murky, facts-wise. What is certain is that he went to a nightclub while at home, and before he left the nightclub, a man ended up shot to death. Villalona was accused, arrested and charged with murder and was held in jail for about two months before being unexpectedly released on bail. Reportedly, he was able to get bail because the family of the victim requested the charges be dropped -- supposedly because Villalona paid the family somewhere between $50,000 and $140,000 in a private agreement. Blood money? An innocent man being blackmailed? Nobody really knows and likely never will. The prosecutor vowed to proceed with the trial anyway (though it remains to be seen if they have any more witnesses willing to testify). Meanwhile, Villalona's U.S. visa has been revoked. It is unknown what the Giants plan to do if he is exonerated or the charges are dropped and he is able to reinstate his visa.

#6 BarrettsHiddenBall

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Posted 28 November 2009 - 07:35 PM

Might want to remove Jason Bay and Matt Holliday as possible targets:
QUOTE
Brian Sabean ... has not contacted agents for the two big hitters on the free-agent market, Matt Holliday or Jason Bay, and does not expect to either.
...
Sabean essentially said he refuses to be a "stalking horse" for any player who is just using the Giants to get more money elsewhere, and that the Giants will talk only to free agents who have a genuine interest in coming to San Francisco.

He said he doubts Bay and Holliday will have genuine interest because the Yankees, Red Sox and other bigger-market teams will be chasing them.

At the same time, Sabean said, he believes there is a good crop of "second-tier" free agents to look at.


The next day, the same beat writer mentioned Nick Johnson as a possible target.

In a radio interview, Sabean said 2010 payroll would probably be in the high 80's/low-90's. They're at $57m now according to Cots, and after arbitration for the four guys mentioned earlier and minimum salaries for 10-20 others, they should end up in the mid-80's. So unless they non-tender Garko or clear salary some other way, they've got about $5-10m to play with.

#7 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 12:42 PM

BaseballAmerica released it's top-10 prospect list for the Giants:

1. Buster Posey, c
2. Madison Bumgarner, lhp
3. Zack Wheeler, rhp
4. Thomas Neal, of
5. Dan Runzler, lhp
6. Tommy Joseph, c
7. Roger Kieschnick, of
8. Ehirdre Adrianza, ss
9. Brandon Crawford, ss
10. Francisco Peguero, of

Notable absences are Angel Vilalona (for obvious reasons), and Raffy Rodriguez.

My thoughts:
- I can see why Vilalona was left off, but Rafael Rodriguez did nothig to deserve being dropped from top-10 status.
- Dan Runzler has fantastic stuff from the left-side, but relievers are not top-10 worthy in my opinion.
- Conor Gillaspie has vanished off the face of the earth. His lack of range on defense and a weak showing with the bat deservedly caused him to be left off of this list.
- Neal and Peguero are a tad overrated by BA, imo.

QUOTE
Managing partner Bill Neukom lauded the farm system's 411-286 (.590) record, by far the best among major league organizations. Four of San Francisco's six U.S.-based affiliates reached the playoffs, with high Class A San Jose and short-season Salem-Keizer winning league titles.

Neukom said the Giants would continue to invest heavily in player development and emphasize homegrown talent. They committed $3.3 million to high school righthander Zack Wheeler, whom they tabbed with the sixth overall pick in the draft. Scouting director John Barr also drafted a couple of power hitters in high school catcher Tommy Joseph and Louisville third baseman Chris Dominguez. Two prolific sluggers at San Jose, outfielders Thomas Neal and Roger Kieschnick, offered further hope at striking a balance in a traditionally pitching-heavy system.




#8 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 02:24 PM

John Sickles at Minor League Ball has released his Giants top-20 prospect list:

QUOTE
) Buster Posey, C, Grade A: No-brainer. All he needs is playing time.

2) Madison Bumgarner, LHP, Grade A-: Almost went with B+, but strikeout rates aren't everything. More concerned about dropping velocity. May still go with B+ eventually.

3) Thomas Neal, OF, Grade B: Solid all-around hitter, saw him in Arizona Fall League and he convinced me bat is for real.

4) Zack Wheeler, RHP, Grade B: I'm hesitant to give a grade this high to any high school pitcher without a pro track record, but I really like Wheeler.

5) Roger Kieschnick, OF, Grade B-: Love the power and he's not just a one-dimensional slugger, but the high strikeout rate and low walk rate is concerning. How will he transition to Double-A?

6) Tommy Joseph, C, Grade B-: Have to see where he fits defensively but scouting reports about the bat are very positive.

7) Dan Runzler, LHP, Grade B-: Very impressive relief arm, if he throws enough strikes.

8) Waldis Joaquin, RHP, Grade B-: Another impressive relief arm, if he throws enough strikes.

9) Jason Stoffel, RHP, Grade B-: Another impressive relief arm, could be a bargain as a fourth rounder.

10) Francisco Peguero, OF, Grade B-: Difficult to grade, speed and high batting average are positives, but walk rate is way too low. Borderline C+.

11) Rafael Rodriguez, OF, Grade C+: Held his own in rookie ball though power isn't there yet. Very very young, loads of potential but have to see how it pans out. Difficult to grade, you can make a case for B- as well as a straight C.

12) Jose Casilla, RHP, Grade C+: Another lively relief arm.

12) Nick Noonan, 2B, Grade C+: Numbers haven't lived up to scouting reports but still young. Giants hype him but I'm not sure at all that he will live up to it.

13) Aaron King, LHP, Grade C+: Live-armed lefty needs better command.

14) Henry Sosa, RHP, Grade C+: Can he stay healthy? Maybe a switch to relief would help.

15) Darren Ford, OF, Grade C+: Not convinced he'll hit at higher levels. Borderline Grade C.

16) Clayton Tanner, LHP, Grade C+: For some reason I like him a lot. Another borderline Grade C guy, need to see if game will work against better hitters.

17) Ehire Adrianza, SS, Grade C: Scouts love him. Great glove. I'm not convinced he'll hit, but I could be convinced to give him a Grade C+ and move him up the list. Anyone want to convince me?

18) Conor Gillaspie, 3B, Grade C: He showed outstanding plate discipline but nothing else. I think he still has a chance to be a good hitter.

19) Brandon Crawford, SS, Grade C: Excellent glove. I do not believe in his bat. Baseball America ranks Adrianza and Crawford much higher than I do.

20) Edwin Concepcion, RHP, Grade C: Interesting power arm at the lower levels with strikeouts/grounders combination.


#9 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:09 AM

The Giants did not offer arbitration to any of their free agents. Bengie Molina is very happy about this.

#10 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 02:34 PM

John Manuel came out with his farm system rankings today. The Giants were ranked 3rd:

QUOTE
3. Giants: San Francisco has two elite talents in catcher Buster Posey and left-hander Madison Bumgarner, both of whom should contribute to the major league club in 2010. The Giants also have depth, despite the uncertain status of slugger Angel Villalona, who was stripped of his U.S. visa after an off-season murder charge in his native Dominican Republic. San Francisco has shortstop options, some solid bats (such as outfielder Thomas Neal) and solid depth, but it's really about the stars.


Edited to include linkage.

Edited by Lars The Wanderer, 03 December 2009 - 02:41 PM.


#11 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 19 January 2010 - 05:22 PM

fuck my life.

I can't believe the Giants signed that fat tub of shit for one more year. If I could I'd go to 24 Mays and suicide bomb Sabean.

#12 Al Zarilla


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Posted 19 January 2010 - 05:50 PM

QUOTE (Spacemans Bong @ Jan 19 2010, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
fuck my life.

I can't believe the Giants signed that fat tub of shit for one more year. If I could I'd go to 24 Mays and suicide bomb Sabean.
I get the distinct impression you don't like Bengie.


#13 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 19 January 2010 - 05:52 PM

No, no I don't. I cannot believe the Giants bought that guy back after last year's shenanigans.

And to block the best catching prospect in baseball to boot.

#14 ItOnceWasMyLife

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 06:29 PM

This is going to get interesting.

Lincecum seeking $13MM, Giants offering $8MM.

Way too much money separating these two.

#15 RIrooter09

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 06:37 PM

QUOTE (ItOnceWasMyLife @ Jan 19 2010, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is going to get interesting.

Lincecum seeking $13MM, Giants offering $8MM.

Way too much money separating these two.


There's no way Lincecum doesn't win if it goes to arbitration.

#16 kanga12

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 12:05 AM

Some updates (better late then never):

Jonathan Sanchez signed a one-year $2.1 million contract.

Merkin Valdez was traded to the Blue Jays for cash.

Freddy Sanchez has surgery on his shoulder -- could miss Opening Day.

#17 gaelgirl


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Posted 25 January 2010 - 05:49 AM

QUOTE (Spacemans Bong @ Jan 19 2010, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, no I don't. I cannot believe the Giants bought that guy back after last year's shenanigans.

And to block the best catching prospect in baseball to boot.

I'm surprised that Molina came back, too, but I think it's a good thing. He chose to stay here over going to the Mets for more money. He knows the situation and is apparently willing to work within those parameters.

As for Posey, I wasn't comfortable with him as our starting catcher. I'd rather he come up when he's ready, not when he's forced into service because the lack of any other options. Coming up late in the season is one thing, starting the year as the #1 catcher is another. If he's dominating in AAA, bring him up, throw him into the fire. And if it doesn't work, we have one of the more consistent Giants hitters over the last few years sitting on the bench. Further, if Posey does get called up next season, it's only good for the Giants. Posey won't feel the pressure of having to be the only viable full-time catcher and the aging Molina gets a lot more rest and isn't forced into trying to carry the offense.

It's only a one-year contract, and Posey started last year in A-ball. He didn't seem ready to take over the spot in his admittedly limited big-league experience last season. He needs a little more time to develop and get ready. He's not being blocked.

#18 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 03:49 PM

I hate the fact that they brought Molina back. It was stupid and shortsighted signing that actually makes the 2010 team worse than if they were to just start Posey. Bengie Molina was the worst offensive catcher in the National League last season. He made outs at a greater rate than any other NL catcher who played in over 100 games. Additionally, he was lazy behind the plate (especially late in the season) and there were not so subtle rumblings that a few of the Giants starters preferred pitching to Eli Whiteside. Additionally, Molina pouted publically (during the season and while the Giants were still in contention) about not being offered an extension and even took to sitting out games with minor aches and sprains; issues that were magically cured when Posey was called up.

Speaking of Buster, he got only 17 at-bats after his callup in September. Bochy's hard-on for veteran grit made Eli Whiteside the preferred backup when Bengie either didn't feel like playing or when the Giants had a day after a night game. Those 17 at-bats are a sample size so miniscule, that anyone who bases his readiness on how he looked just doesn't want to see him start...like ever. The really funny thing about the Whiteside over Posey decision i that prior to last season, Whiteside had caught a total of 9 games in his major league career. So he really wasn't more experienced than Posey...just older. If Posey were named Giants starter for 2010, I have no doubt that he would get on base at a better rate than Molina's .285 or Whiteside's .269.

Grant Brisbee over at McCovey Chronicles summed it up better than I ever could:

QUOTE
I wonder if there’s a non-stat way to explain how bad Bengie is to a statophobe.


“Okay, so what is Bengie good at?”

“He hits dingerz. About 20 a year.”

“Fine. How many times do you think he doesn’t score from second on a single that would score any other player in the league.”

“Uh, about ten.”

“Same question, but now we’re talking about scoring from first on an extra-base hit. How many times do you think that happens?”

“Uh, like, five?”

“Same question, but now we’re talking about sac flies, scoring on grounders to the right side, etc…”

“Maybe five times?”

“Okay. So now we’ve almost completely negated Molina’s offensive contribution with just his baserunning. Now let’s talk about his (almost) league-worst on-base percentage.”

“Good…god. I can…see so clearly now!”

I know that’s not good science, but maybe it would get the point across.




#19 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 02 February 2010 - 10:47 AM

BH Kim signs a minor league deal with the Giants.

Anybody else feel like revisiting Birdgate? WTF did he do to deserve getting booed? He didn't even blow the save in Game 1!

#20 kanga12

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 12:39 AM

Giants pick up Wellemeyer as a long reliever (link)

Here's one possible projected batting order (link)
QUOTE
1. CF Aaron Rowand:
.261 BA, .319 OBP, .419 SLG, 15 HR, 64 RBI in 2009
2. 2B Juan Uribe:
.289 BA, .329 OBP, .495 SLG, 16 HR, 55 RBI in 2009
3. 3B Pablo Sandoval:
.330 BA, .387 OBP, .556 SLG, 25 HR, 90 RBI in 2009
4. 1B Aubrey Huff:
.241 BA, .310 OBP, .384 SLG, 15 HR, 85 RBI in 2009
5. LF Mark DeRosa:
.250 BA, .319 OBP, .433 SLG, 23 HR, 78 RBI in 2009
6. C Bengie Molina:
.265 BA, .285 OBP, .442 SLG, 20 HR, 80 RBI in 2009
7. RF Nate Schierholtz:
.267 BA, .302 OBP, .400 SLG, 5 HR, 29 RBI in 2009
8. SS Edgar Renteria:
.250 BA, .307 OBP, .328 SLG, 5 HR, 48 RBI in 200

Seeing Uribe in the lineup (hitting second) makes me cringe. Last year he hit a career high .289 (.329 OBP) and matched his career high OPS+ 111 (in 2004 he hit .289 (.327 OBP) 24 HR and 74 RBI) with some clutch hits. However, all the projections definitely have him regressing -- his career averages after all are .257/.298 with an OPS+ 83.

(I'm assuming when Sanchez returns he'll bat second and Uribe will go to the bench?)

Any thoughts on this projected lineup?

#21 LondonSox


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Posted 16 February 2010 - 08:04 AM

QUOTE (kanga12 @ Feb 12 2010, 05:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Giants pick up Wellemeyer as a long reliever (link)

Here's one possible projected batting order (link)

Seeing Uribe in the lineup (hitting second) makes me cringe. Last year he hit a career high .289 (.329 OBP) and matched his career high OPS+ 111 (in 2004 he hit .289 (.327 OBP) 24 HR and 74 RBI) with some clutch hits. However, all the projections definitely have him regressing -- his career averages after all are .257/.298 with an OPS+ 83.

(I'm assuming when Sanchez returns he'll bat second and Uribe will go to the bench?)

Any thoughts on this projected lineup?


I'm keeping a closer eye on the Giants as I'm thinking of moving out that way. I went to a game when I was in town last, love that stadium.
The NL lineups generally make my eyes bleed, btu that is just wow.

Two guys in that lineup have 320 OBP. And only one breaks 330, and he while tremendous has to be an injury concern.

I can't stand Damon, but wouldn't he upgrade that lineup is the biggest area of need?
I love their young pitching, but holy crap come on. Why on earth would anyone settle on that lineup, it's not like they're in an unwinnable division either

#22 kanga12

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 06:06 PM

Freddy Sanchez is hoping to be healthy for Opening Day -- but Travis Ishikawa tore two ligaments in the his left foot (and with possible surgery could be out three months) (link)

LondonSox, Damon could be an improvement in the lineup (just saw possible news that he might be going to Detroit) but his defense (or lack thereof) would be exposed even more in the large outfield of AT&T Park -- unless they play him at first base or something. Plus 17 of his 24 HRs were hit at home, so offhand I wonder how much of that pop in his bat would translate over to AT&T.

(And yes, it is a gorgeous stadium!)

#23 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 22 February 2010 - 02:40 PM

This is academic now, but left field in AT&T Park is not particularly big. It's smaller than Yankee Stadium.

The fact he's a left handed hitter is much more important. Lefties just wither and die at AT&T, unless their last name is Bonds.

I still think Damon would have been a good signing - the Giants don't really have a leadoff man, and he can still do that - but like I said, academic.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 22 February 2010 - 02:42 PM.


#24 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 11:12 AM

HitTracker has Damon as a dead pull hitter and AT&T would have ate him up and spit him out. However, one year of Damon at 8 million would still have been better than 2 years of Mark DeRosa at 12 million. Noodle-arm notwithstanding.

This has been an epically bad offseason for the Giants. After 88 wins last season, I think they will struggle to be a .500 team in 2010.



#25 Carmine Hose

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 02:48 PM

Would Mike Lowell make sense for these guys? Rotate him with Sandoval and Huff.

#26 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 27 February 2010 - 08:11 PM

QUOTE (Carmine Hose @ Feb 24 2010, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Would Mike Lowell make sense for these guys? Rotate him with Sandoval and Huff.

If he wants to play first base..maybe.

Sandoval is the 3rd basemen pretty much every day. Despite his size he's actually not a bad third baseman.

Problem is Lowell is basically an .800 OPS guy. Which is alright but not great from 1B, and while I'm not big on Huff at least he was pretty good in 2008 and costs less.

#27 JimRiceHOFer

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 12:37 PM

Great quote on ESPN's Rumor Central today about Aubrey huff:

Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle writes today that "Drummers for Spinal Tap have had more longevity than Giants first basemen over the past decade." Huff is slated to be the Giants' fourth different Opening Day first baseman in the last five years.

#28 kanga12

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 04:17 PM

Interesting article on Ken Griffey, Jr. and his mentoring of Fred Lewis, which I had never heard about before. I'm for whatever and whoever can help Lewis play better...



#29 Al Zarilla


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Posted 20 March 2010 - 03:30 PM

Kruk and Kuip behind the mike on CSNBA in a ST game with the Reds. Throw in a nice rack behind the Giants dugout and it doesn't get any better than that around here today. Spring is here! Oh, Renteria and Huff go deep in the first.


#30 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 12:53 PM

Madison Bumgarner was reassigned to minor league camp. The #5 starter battle is now between Wellemeyer and Pucetas.

#31 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 23 March 2010 - 12:59 PM

Madison Bumgarner..and his Kirk Reuter fastball got reassigned to mL camp.

#32 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 09:37 PM

The Giants have given Brian Wilson a 2-year extension. Wilson will make $6.5 million in 2011, and $8.5 million in 2012. They have also added another year to Jeremy Affeldt's contract. He will now make 4.5 million in 2010, 4.5 million in 2011 and the Giants have a 5 million option for 2012.

There are also rumors around that they will announce a contract extension for Matt Cain as well. Nothing solid on this yet.

Edited by Lars The Wanderer, 26 March 2010 - 10:31 PM.


#33 JulE6


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Posted 26 March 2010 - 09:54 PM

QUOTE (Lars The Wanderer @ Mar 23 2010, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Madison Bumgarner was reassigned to minor league camp. The #5 starter battle is now between Wellemeyer and Pucetas.

Pucetas is such a good kid, I got to Limestone right after he graduated but met him on a couple of different occasions through a mutual friend. Impossible not to root for him to get the last spot

#34 bostonbruen

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 11:48 PM



For the last 3 off-seasons my boys have had the privilege to take a BP session with Lars Anderson and John Bowker (far right). As a Sox fan, when we went up for the first session, we were most interested in, and impressed with meeting, Lars.

But we have gotten to know John over the past few years and follow his career intently. John is a good hitter. He had a great season last year at AAA. And is having an outstanding Spring. He is the only Giant in their history to hit a HR in each of his first 2 games.

And once again the Giants are surely going to send him down to AAA.

This is why the Giants will never win. You gotta take chances on guys like John instead of signing the DeRosa's and Huff's of the world. Unless you are going all in with spending, then you've gotta do it with youth. The Giants, and so many other teams, go half-assed. Half spending. Half-youth. You gotta go one way or the other. Go youth and you end up like Oakland the first part of this decade or Florida or Tampa. Go spending and you end up like the Yanks or the Sox.

Go half of both and you end up f$%ked. And that's what the Giants are.

#35 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 27 March 2010 - 05:39 AM

QUOTE (Lars The Wanderer @ Mar 27 2010, 02:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Giants have given Brian Wilson a 2-year extension. Wilson will make $6.5 million in 2011, and $8.5 million in 2012. They have also added another year to Jeremy Affeldt's contract. He will now make 4.5 million in 2010, 4.5 million in 2011 and the Giants have a 5 million option for 2012.

There are also rumors around that they will announce a contract extension for Matt Cain as well. Nothing solid on this yet.

Why are we giving money to people not named Tim Lincecum?

I mean, I'm cool on the Cain extension, and I suppose the Wilson extension buys out some arb years, but jeez, these are more slices of the pie we are giving away to other people. At some point the Giants are going to have a $120 million payroll of which $10 million will be for the position players not named Aaron Rowand.
QUOTE (bostonbruen @ Mar 27 2010, 04:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


For the last 3 off-seasons my boys have had the privilege to take a BP session with Lars Anderson and John Bowker (far right). As a Sox fan, when we went up for the first session, we were most interested in, and impressed with meeting, Lars.

But we have gotten to know John over the past few years and follow his career intently. John is a good hitter. He had a great season last year at AAA. And is having an outstanding Spring. He is the only Giant in their history to hit a HR in each of his first 2 games.

And once again the Giants are surely going to send him down to AAA.

This is why the Giants will never win. You gotta take chances on guys like John instead of signing the DeRosa's and Huff's of the world. Unless you are going all in with spending, then you've gotta do it with youth. The Giants, and so many other teams, go half-assed. Half spending. Half-youth. You gotta go one way or the other. Go youth and you end up like Oakland the first part of this decade or Florida or Tampa. Go spending and you end up like the Yanks or the Sox.

Go half of both and you end up f$%ked. And that's what the Giants are.

This is well put.

The annoying thing is the Giants seem comfortable with throwing kids into the rotation - 80% of the staff this year will be young, homegrown guys, plus the closer is young and homegrown - but Sabean has always hated putting position players into the team. I guarantee if Sandoval didn't hit the second he got called up he might still be in AAA.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 27 March 2010 - 06:23 AM.


#36 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 12:00 PM

QUOTE (Spacemans Bong @ Mar 27 2010, 05:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why are we giving money to people not named Tim Lincecum?


Lincecum got paid already. 23 million over the next 2 years.

#37 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 27 March 2010 - 06:29 PM

QUOTE (Lars The Wanderer @ Mar 27 2010, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lincecum got paid already. 23 million over the next 2 years.

And it'll be a fuckton more than that for his long term extension which the giants are making more difficult for themselves by giving money to people not named Tim Lincecum.

#38 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 07:42 PM

QUOTE (Spacemans Bong @ Mar 27 2010, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And it'll be a fuckton more than that for his long term extension which the giants are making more difficult for themselves by giving money to people not named Tim Lincecum.


These are 2 year deals. The same as Lincecum's. The money will be off the books when Tim's current contract is up.

#39 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 02:39 PM

The Giants are about to announce a contract extension for Matt Cain. No word on the dollars yet, but it will run through 2012. Since the Giants already held a team option for 2011, this amounts to an extra year. Very team friendly move from Cain.

#40 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 03:19 PM

QUOTE (Lars The Wanderer @ Mar 28 2010, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Giants are about to announce a contract extension for Matt Cain. No word on the dollars yet, but it will run through 2012. Since the Giants already held a team option for 2011, this amounts to an extra year. Very team friendly move from Cain.


According to Andrew Baggarly: Cain’s $4.5m stays the same for this year. He’ll make ~$8m in 2011 and north of $15m in 2012.

#41 kanga12

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 04:13 PM

QUOTE (Lars The Wanderer @ Mar 28 2010, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Giants are about to announce a contract extension for Matt Cain. No word on the dollars yet, but it will run through 2012. Since the Giants already held a team option for 2011, this amounts to an extra year. Very team friendly move from Cain.
Definitely.

Looks like Sabean's got the the front and back end of the pitching staff locked up through 2012. I'm very curious what other moves he'll make...


#42 gaelgirl


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Posted 29 March 2010 - 02:36 AM

QUOTE (Spacemans Bong @ Mar 27 2010, 04:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And it'll be a fuckton more than that for his long term extension which the giants are making more difficult for themselves by giving money to people not named Tim Lincecum.
Even beyond Lars' pointing out that these moves do not prevent the Giants from offering Lincecum the world when his contract runs out, what the fuck is wrong with nailing down other players? I love Tim Lincecum too, but he alone cannot make the Giants a contending team. No single pitcher can, they aren't involved in a vast, vast majority of the games. So, the Giants have to give money to people not named Tim Lincecum. I don't see what the fucking problem is. I don't think the Giants can make a move without half the Giants fans getting insanely angry.

#43 LondonSox


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Posted 29 March 2010 - 09:33 AM

Well said, it's not like the Giants are either poor or playing a vast number of stupid long term contracts either.

There's Zito of course through 2013 (20MM in 2013... gah), but Rowand comes off after 2012.

And... That's IT! Cain's and Wilson's new extensions makes them only the 3rd and 4th signed past 2011.

So they have plenty to lock up young Tim if they so choose, and then hopefulyl find a way to get some players who have an OBP over 320. I'm not asking for a lot.
they seem pretty decent at drafting and developing I have no idea why Sabean insists on playing terrible cast offs and why he had that run of giving away his first round pick to sign a guy before they were even offered arb.

Sabean's contract is up after 2011 too....

#44 Spacemans Bong


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Posted 29 March 2010 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE (gaelgirl @ Mar 29 2010, 08:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Even beyond Lars' pointing out that these moves do not prevent the Giants from offering Lincecum the world when his contract runs out, what the fuck is wrong with nailing down other players? I love Tim Lincecum too, but he alone cannot make the Giants a contending team. No single pitcher can, they aren't involved in a vast, vast majority of the games. So, the Giants have to give money to people not named Tim Lincecum. I don't see what the fucking problem is. I don't think the Giants can make a move without half the Giants fans getting insanely angry.

Because they didn't offer him a serious long-term extension ostensibly on the basis of cash flow, and are tying up future payroll in other guys. None of these other contracts are bad, but they did an incredibly stupid thing by not signing Lincecum long-term NOW. This will cost them much, much more in the future. I'm of the belief you get a contract out there that buys out free agency years as quick as possible and let them choose between hitting the market and getting long-term security now, even if it's at a discount. The 23 mil they're giving Lincecum gives him enough long-term security that that window of discount is now gone. Any deal is going to buy out at least a couple free agency years and they're going to come at no discount.

I'm cool with Cain, but they've locked up a reliever for the next 2 years with a buyout and are giving very good closer money to Brian Wilson. Affeldt and Wilson are not optimal use of resources.

Sandoval hits arb this year too, so you could conceivably see five guys making solid money before they revisit Lincecum.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 29 March 2010 - 05:55 PM.


#45 Lars The Wanderer

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 07:01 PM

QUOTE (Spacemans Bong @ Mar 29 2010, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because they didn't offer him a serious long-term extension ostensibly on the basis of cash flow, and are tying up future payroll in other guys.


I think they played the Lincecum negotiations exactly right. There is value in avoiding risk. If Tim has a horrible marijuana harvesting accident and gets his arm ripped off, they are not on the hook for 10/250 or whatever. And if he doesn't get injured over the next 2 years, they can do something long term. They will have only one guaranteed year for Zito at that point (plus a buyout) so the Giants can shoot themselves in the face again with another long term contract to someone who probably won't be worth it all things considered.

I think you are making way more of this than it deserves.

#46 gaelgirl


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Posted 31 March 2010 - 11:41 PM

I wasn't the most ardent follower of the Tim Lincecum contract negotiations, but didn't his agent say at some point that they prefer shorter contracts? Does he even want to sign a longterm contract now? Why would he sign at a discount? The only likely reasons are his enjoyment of pitching in San Francisco (which isn't likely to change, I wouldn't think) and concern that he'll decline or get injured (and he seems to be very confident that won't happen).

And, as pointed out a few times, at this point, the Giants will have pretty much all their salary budget money in the world to spend on him if they want. And, again, Tim needs 24 other good players in order to be on a winning team. So the Giants have to pay people not named Tim Lincecum, and probably pay some of them a lot.



#47 SonsOfCharlieZink

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 10:21 AM

The Giants plan a bobblehead giveaway featuring Lincecum and real human hair.

#48 Al Zarilla


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Posted 02 April 2010 - 12:23 PM

QUOTE (SonsOfCharlieZink @ Apr 2 2010, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Giants plan a bobblehead giveaway featuring Lincecum and real human hair.

It could even be real Lincecum hair! Well, from the article, just six real human hair b-heads. Eezy-Peezy.

#49 kanga12

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 02:01 PM

Giants optioned Buster Posey down to AAA along with Ryan Rohlinger, Matt Downs, and Alex Hinshaw and Kevin Pucetas (link) -- which means Eli Whiteside is the backup catcher (behind Molina).

This move wasn't too much of a surprise with the re-signing of Molina, but still frustrating, nonetheless, to see a talent like Posey stuck down in Fresno.

#50 kanga12

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 04:46 PM

John Bowker will be the starting RFer (instead of Schierholtz) on Opening Day (link)
QUOTE
Reflecting the Giants' desire for dynamic offense, manager Bruce Bochy selected John Bowker over Nate Schierholtz as the team's Opening Day right fielder on Sunday.

Bowker entered Sunday's exhibition finale against the Seattle Mariners with team highs in home runs (six) and RBIs (22), placing him among the Major League Spring Training leaders. He also was batting .307 with a .384 on-base percentage and a .627 slugging percentage in 27 games. By comparison, Schierholtz was hitting .262 with one home run, seven RBIs, a .304 on-base percentage and a .507 slugging percentage.

In announcing the decision, Bochy noted that Bowker not only produced offensively but also displayed "a lot of discipline at the plate" -- laying off pitches he frequently has chased.

This is definitely one (small) move towards a hopefully better offense for the Giants this season.