27 replies to this topic

[Gambler7]

According to Nikkan Sports (as translated and linked by npbtracker.com), the Red Sox are scheduled to meet with Japanese left-hander Yusei Kikuchi, an 18-year-old who has starred in Japan's Koshien Tournament, on Oct. 19. The Sox, according to the translated report, are one of eight major-league teams slated to meet with Kikuchi. Kikuchi is deciding whether to pitch in the Nippon Professional Baseball (NPB) league, or to bypass the Japanese draft to sign with a Major League Baseball team as an amateur free agent. His case is viewed as similar to that of Junichi Tazawa, the right-hander who signed with the Red Sox last December after pitching in Japan's amateur Industrial League, though Kikuchi's potential jump from high school directly to the U.S. is considered in some ways even more dramatic than was Tazawa's.

http://www.weei.com/...rospect-kikuchi

The comments below any WEEI article posted are hilariously bad. Ignore them.

[biollante]

Actually, I found the comments AMUSING.

I find it hard to make any kind of judgment regarding Japanese pitchers that I haven't seen pitch or even heard of at all. In many ways, it is a brave, new scouting world.

[Sprowl]

Lurker Okajimania writes that "Kikuchi threw this month as closer. Then he threw fastball 92-95mph."

Okajimania also sent a link to a video of Yusei Kikuchi in action as a closer. He appears starting around 1:20, and the scoreboard shows his velocity at 151 and then 153 km/h.



Thanks, Okajimania!

(thread title changed to focus on Kikuchi)

[Al Zarilla]

Lurker Okajimania writes that "Kikuchi threw this month as closer. Then he threw fastball 92-95mph."

Okajimania also sent a link to a video of Yusei Kikuchi in action as a closer. He appears starting around 1:20, and the scoreboard shows his velocity at 151 and then 153 km/h.



Thanks, Okajimania!

(thread title changed to focus on Kikuchi)

Good footage. All of the Japanese pitchers seem to have a delay built into their delivery at one point or another (Dice-K's wiggle, e.g.). Kikuchi's is in the middle of his leg kick. Might screw up base stealing against him a tad.

[phragle]

NBP Tracker: Who is Yusei Kikuchi

Pitching
I watched Kikuchi pitch as much as I could during this year’s Koshien tournament. He does throw hard, during the games I watched his fastball ranged between about 87 – 96 mph (142-155 kmph). He did get a bit wild when throwing at the higher end of his range and I think he may have a tendency to overthrow at times. Perhaps this contributed to the back strain he suffered during the tournament. This video shows Kikuchi throwing his fastball mostly around 90mph, down in the zone with good command.

...

Makeup
Kikuchi is a studious kid who reads 10 books per month and doesn’t watch TV. From what I’ve read, he seems to be a conscientious kid as well. The Nikkan Sports Draft Guide’s blurb on him leads off with an anecdote about how the writer was standing while watching Kikusei throw a bullpen session. Without saying anything, Kikuchi walked left the mound, and returned a few minutes later with a folding chair, offering it to the writer to sit in.

In the second video I believe you can see his curveball at 1:23, its 75.8 mph.

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Without saying anything, Kikuchi walked left the mound, and returned a few minutes later with a folding chair, offering it to the writer to sit in.

This guys sounds like a Major Leaguer already.

Seriously though, if the Sox were to sign him, where would he begin? Single-A?

[Bernie Carbohydrate]

I am against this.

First, 153 sounds too fast to be real. There may be a problem with how radar gun work over there. I'm not falling for another Sidd Finch thing.

Second, Japan hundreds of miles away from Boston, so how will his breaking stuff be over here, where the ball spins clockwise instead of counterclockwise? What kind of movement can we expect?

Lastly, we should not sign pitchers named after diseases. The last guy we had like that was Brian Bright, and Kikuchi disease is even worse than Bright's disease.

Pass.

[Lose Remerswaal]

I am against this.

First, 153 sounds too fast to be real. There may be a problem with how radar gun work over there. I'm not falling for another Sidd Finch thing.

Second, Japan hundreds of miles away from Boston, so how will his breaking stuff be over here, where the ball spins clockwise instead of counterclockwise? What kind of movement can we expect?

Lastly, we should not sign pitchers named after diseases. The last guy we had like that was Brian Bright, and Kikuchi disease is even worse than Bright's disease.

Pass.

153kph = 95 mph. Sure that's high for an 18 year old. but we're not talking Sidd Finch, not even close

[Rough Carrigan]

I am against this.

First, 153 sounds too fast to be real. There may be a problem with how radar gun work over there. I'm not falling for another Sidd Finch thing.

Second, Japan hundreds of miles away from Boston, so how will his breaking stuff be over here, where the ball spins clockwise instead of counterclockwise? What kind of movement can we expect?

Lastly, we should not sign pitchers named after diseases. The last guy we had like that was Brian Bright, and Kikuchi disease is even worse than Bright's disease.

Pass.

Worked out pretty good for the yankees with that first baseman in the 20's and 30's!

[E5 Yaz]

Second, Japan hundreds of miles away from Boston, so how will his breaking stuff be over here, where the ball spins clockwise instead of counterclockwise? What kind of movement can we expect?

This is simple; just turn him into a righthander

[thisyearisthe]

Japan is hundreds of miles away from boston adn this makes the ball spin the other way? Wow.

[Williams Head Case]

153kph = 95 mph. Sure that's high for an 18 year old. but we're not talking Sidd Finch, not even close

I think the post was employing a moderate to heavy amount of sarcasm.

[CaptainLaddie]

153kph = 95 mph. Sure that's high for an 18 year old. but we're not talking Sidd Finch, not even close

WHOOOSH!!!

(right over your head)

[Lose Remerswaal]

I think the post was employing a moderate to heavy amount of sarcasm.

WHOOOSH!!!

(right over your head)

Solly, I forgot what board I was on

[phragle]

This guys sounds like a Major Leaguer already.

Seriously though, if the Sox were to sign him, where would he begin? Single-A?

He seems similar to Tazawa, but maybe with less command. Single A sounds right.

After further review, I think the breaking ball I said was a curve, is actually a slider.

[mabrowndog]

Lastly, we should not sign pitchers named after diseases. The last guy we had like that was Brian Bright, and Kikuchi disease is even worse than Bright's disease.

To further support your premise, in Japan Brian's surname is pronounced "blight".

Point: Quarantine.

[cwright]

First, 153 sounds too fast to be real. There may be a problem with how radar gun work over there. I'm not falling for another Sidd Finch thing.

Yeah, but the km/mi conversion also means the ballparks are smaller, so it's far easier to hit home runs over there. Think of it all as taking place on a little league field.

Lastly, we should not sign pitchers named after diseases. The last guy we had like that was Brian Bright, and Kikuchi disease is even worse than Bright's disease.

True. The Bay Sore also worries me, truth be told, though that seems more of a nuisance than a disease.

[Rough Carrigan]

I thought there would be more commentary about the way that this seems to set a new precedent.

Tazawa was a guy playing in an industrial league. A guy who's a straight out high school student is a whole new thing and if I were an executive at an NPB team I'd be seriously pissed about this. This tramples over the previous precedent that MLB teams could only sign guys who'd been posted by their NPB teams or who NPB teams didn't want or didn't draft.

[cwright]

I thought there would be more commentary about the way that this seems to set a new precedent.

Tazawa was a guy playing in an industrial league. A guy who's a straight out high school student is a whole new thing and if I were an executive at an NPB team I'd be seriously pissed about this. This tramples over the previous precedent that MLB teams could only sign guys who'd been posted by their NPB teams or who NPB teams didn't want or didn't draft.

Actually, I was wondering about this. Was it just a "gentleman's agreement" that MLB teams wouldn't interfere with potential NPB players, or was there actually some rule against MLB teams signing Japanese players that has been changed recently? It does seem that the Red Sox are one of the teams testing the boundaries - claiming Millar off waivers back in 2003, signing Tazawa, and now talking with Kikuchi. Perhaps Japanese players are just becoming more interested in the money and prestige of playing in MLB, with the recent success of Japanese players here.

This does seem like it could be the beginning of a huge problem for Japanese baseball, if their top players begin to circumvent the process...and also a major supplier of MLB prospects for any teams that have the cash (and clout) to sign young players. But perhaps Kikuchi is just the exception.

[erfus]

Actually, I was wondering about this. Was it just a "gentleman's agreement" that MLB teams wouldn't interfere with potential NPB players, or was there actually some rule against MLB teams signing Japanese players that has been changed recently? It does seem that the Red Sox are one of the teams testing the boundaries - claiming Millar off waivers back in 2003, signing Tazawa, and now talking with Kikuchi. Perhaps Japanese players are just becoming more interested in the money and prestige of playing in MLB, with the recent success of Japanese players here.

This does seem like it could be the beginning of a huge problem for Japanese baseball, if their top players begin to circumvent the process...and also a major supplier of MLB prospects for any teams that have the cash (and clout) to sign young players. But perhaps Kikuchi is just the exception.

There was some talk back in July about Boras using JPN as a route to get Strasburg to free agency. An article in the Washington Post talks about that and includes a take regarding the 'gentleman's agreement':

A player signing with NPB would be subject to its "reserve" system, which binds a player to his team for nine years, although exceptions can be made. According to Itaru Kobayashi, a Columbia Business School graduate and former NPB player who is now marketing director for the league's SoftBank Hawks, the bigger issue would be cultural.

"This will do more harm than good to the NPB club. [Strasburg] will not be welcomed, neither by the teammates or the media," Kobayashi said. "It is not easy to sympathize with a guy who comes to Japan just as [part of] a negotiation process to squeeze more millions out of [an MLB] club."

According to Kobayashi, NPB officials are still perturbed about the Boston Red Sox' signing last winter of amateur pitcher Junichi Tazawa, violating what is seen as a "gentlemen's agreement" between the leagues that neither would pluck away the best amateur talent from the other.

"We would not do what we do not want others to do to us," Kobayashi said, "unless we really have to do so."

http://www.washingto...70201804_2.html

So, yes, it seems as though the Sox would be again offending at least a certain segment of the baseball world over there. As long as there are no formal rules though, these 'violations' will continue to proliferate. If not by the Sox, then by someone else.

[Rough Carrigan]

Actually, I was wondering about this. Was it just a "gentleman's agreement" that MLB teams wouldn't interfere with potential NPB players, or was there actually some rule against MLB teams signing Japanese players that has been changed recently? It does seem that the Red Sox are one of the teams testing the boundaries - claiming Millar off waivers back in 2003, signing Tazawa, and now talking with Kikuchi. Perhaps Japanese players are just becoming more interested in the money and prestige of playing in MLB, with the recent success of Japanese players here.

This does seem like it could be the beginning of a huge problem for Japanese baseball, if their top players begin to circumvent the process...and also a major supplier of MLB prospects for any teams that have the cash (and clout) to sign young players. But perhaps Kikuchi is just the exception.

Well, as to the Millar thing, yes, Millar weaseled his way out of a contract but the Florida Marlins were the ones who violated the spirit of the agreement about player transfers between the leagues. MLB players still in demand, like Millar weren't supposed to be shipped to the NPB if they would rather play in the MLB. The Sox tried to trade for Millar but the cheap ass Marlins simply liked getting NPB money more than getting trade value from the Red Sox. Yes, I'm hopelessly biased toward the Red Sox but I honestly think that Millar and the Marlins behaved poorly there but not the Red Sox.

[HriniakPosterChild]

This tramples over the previous precedent that MLB teams could only sign guys who'd been posted by their NPB teams or who NPB teams didn't want or didn't draft.

Hideki Matsui was not posted. He signed as a free agent after doing his time in NPB "indentured servitude."

Junichi Tazawa was not drafted in Japan because NPB teams knew they would be wasting a draft pick on him if they tried to lock him up. Pitching for Nippon Oil was a way of raising his value to interested MLB teams.

If Yusei Kikuchi can get an MLB team to sign him right out of high school, more power to him. Serfdom sucks.

[Cuzittt]

Actually, I was wondering about this. Was it just a "gentleman's agreement" that MLB teams wouldn't interfere with potential NPB players, or was there actually some rule against MLB teams signing Japanese players that has been changed recently? It does seem that the Red Sox are one of the teams testing the boundaries - claiming Millar off waivers back in 2003, signing Tazawa, and now talking with Kikuchi. Perhaps Japanese players are just becoming more interested in the money and prestige of playing in MLB, with the recent success of Japanese players here.

This isn't exactly a new problem.

Anyone remember Ryo Kumagai? Red Sox pitching prospect who signed a $450K bonus. According to this article, The Yokohama BayStars were interested in drafting him. The Sox signed him before the draft (in 2001).

Four years previous (1997), the Sox signed Kenechiro Kawabata out of HS.

But, of course, the Sox (and Ray Poitevant) has, in some corners, a bad reputation...

However, it wasn't just the Red Sox signing players out of Japan in the late 90s. The Padres signed Nobuaki Yoshida out of High School in 2000. The Cubs signed Catcher Takaaki Kato out of University. The article does not go on to say whether they were coveted by NPB teams or not.

Now... maybe, with the Tazawa signing and quick rise to the Majors, there may be move movement from Japanese players to the Major League system. If this is so, it is likely going to be a blow to the NPB system. Given that NPB has known of this potential issue for years (and it had to have known with the success of players who were posted or came over as free agents that younger players would try to make the jump)... and if they have not prepared for this... that is unfortunate for them.

Baseball Players (just as with any other professional athletes) generally want to play at the upper level of the game. For Baseball, this means Major League Baseball in the US.

[koufax32]

This could be an interesting test case for future japanese pitchers. The only wear and tear on this kids arm is from his high school years. Now granted, that wear and tear is tremendous compared to what we normally would expect from a HS pitcher, but still the Sox would be able to get him into their system very early into his development. If this kid ever turned out to be good we might even be able to see what a japanese starter looks like in his mid to late 30's.

Even if it were only from a curiosity standpoint I'd be behind this.

[cwright]

Kikuchi will begin his career in Japan and enter the draft: link

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Kikuchi, 18, announced at a press conference Sunday in Japan that he will opt for his country's pro leagues for now. He is expected to be the No. 1 pick in Japan's Oct. 29 amateur draft.

"I don't think I have what it takes to compete at the world level yet," The Associated Press quoted Kikuchi as saying during the press conference.

Once a player joins a Japanese team, he must play nine seasons before becoming a free agent.

MLB.com

[Hendu for Kutch]

What a weird thing to say...it's not as if he'd have to come over and get thrown right into an MLB rotation. And "yet"? Another odd thing to say considering his next chance won't come for another 9 years (or close to it at least).

[mabrowndog]

Just to close the book on this thread:

Herald

The Seibu Lions of Japan’s Pacific League have won the right to negotiate with highly sought after high school pitcher Yusei Kikuchi.

The 18-year-old left-hander, who drew interest from several major league teams but opted to stay in Japan, was selected by six out of Japan’s 12 professional teams in Thursday’s amateur draft.

The Lions won the right to negotiate with Kikuchi through a lottery.

"The Lions won the Japan Series last year and have a lot of great pitchers," said Kikuchi, who boasts a 96 mph fastball.

Eight major league teams, including the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees, held talks with Kikuchi in Japan earlier this month.