Jump to content


Yo! You're not logged in. Why am I seeing this ad?

Photo
- - - - -

30 for 30


820 replies to this topic

#551 24JoshuaPoint


  • Grand Theft Duvet


  • 3690 posts

Posted 12 October 2011 - 01:53 PM

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Catching Hell is on youtube in 10 parts.


ed - Some of the Buckner stuff at the beginning was quite painful for obvious reasons but the Buckner stuff at the end was pretty cool.

Edited by 24JoshuaPoint, 12 October 2011 - 03:39 PM.


#552 Spacemans Bong


  • chapeau rose


  • 17001 posts

Posted 16 October 2011 - 03:00 PM

Yeah, seriously. He was testing his own theory that Bartman should have known Alou was there because he was listening to the radio. For some reason though, at no point during the making of the movie, did anybody say "Hey, uhhhh, Alex? All radio is on a delay." What a pointless exercise.

All radio isn't on a delay. I've been to Giants games and listened to the radio and it's live. They only did the seven second delay so they could sync the radio with Fox so people could watch the game and head Pat Hughes and Ron Santo instead of Thhh-om Brennaman moralizing. That said, it was still dumb, just because there's so many simpler explanations.

Edited by Spacemans Bong, 16 October 2011 - 03:01 PM.


#553 SoxScout


  • Maalox Territory


  • 30169 posts

Posted 31 October 2011 - 09:15 PM

The Chris Herren one is tomorrow night: "Unguarded"

NYT:

Heroin and painkillers play a larger role than basketball in “Unguarded,” an ESPN documentary on Tuesday night. “I come in here and tell you my nightmare,” the onetime star Chris Herren, long past his glory days, tells a gym full of high school students, and that’s the function of the film as well. Unlike the students, we don’t have to listen to him, but it’s a pretty good story; even if sports aren’t your thing, you might find it worth hanging around the gym for an hour and a half.



#554 Humphrey

  • 219 posts

Posted 01 November 2011 - 11:03 AM

The Chris Herren one is tomorrow night: "Unguarded"

NYT:


Having read Fall River Dreams, I'm interested in seeing which locals they dig up for this one. Herren's HS coach was a real character (and hugely successful over the years), think he's still around.

Edited by Humphrey, 01 November 2011 - 11:03 AM.


#555 radsoxfan


  • SoSH Member


  • 8442 posts

Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:27 PM

Pretty powerful stuff. Definitely worth watching.

Hopefully he stays sober, although I'm sure it's a struggle and it's certainly not assured by any means

#556 PC Drunken Friar

  • 4405 posts

Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:30 PM

Having read Fall River Dreams, I'm interested in seeing which locals they dig up for this one. Herren's HS coach was a real character (and hugely successful over the years), think he's still around.



The new book, Basketball Junkie, is very very good. It's amazing how he was able to play while high the entire time...there were nights where he would be buying dope n the players lot of the garden, in his warmups, 90 minutes before the game (I havent watched this program, so apologies if they said this,

#557 radsoxfan


  • SoSH Member


  • 8442 posts

Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:31 PM

The new book, Basketball Junkie, is very very good. It's amazing how he was able to play while high the entire time...there were nights where he would be buying dope n the players lot of the garden, in his warmups, 90 minutes before the game (I havent watched this program, so apologies if they said this,


apparently it was more like 5 minutes before the game if you believe the documentary.....

#558 bball831

  • 4965 posts

Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:31 PM

These documentaries are just fantastic. What a phenomenal job by ESPN.

#559 SoxScout


  • Maalox Territory


  • 30169 posts

Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:32 PM

Damn, wow.

#560 Tyrone Biggums


  • nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion in colorado,


  • 4184 posts

Posted 01 November 2011 - 08:45 PM

Great story, what would have happened if Herren had stayed in Denver? Would his life have turned out different? You have to wonder...

Jeff Allison is another player that immediately comes to mind with the parallels of being a local guy turned junkie, with so much promise. Tough...

Edited by Tyrone Biggums, 01 November 2011 - 08:47 PM.


#561 radsoxfan


  • SoSH Member


  • 8442 posts

Posted 01 November 2011 - 09:14 PM

Great story, what would have happened if Herren had stayed in Denver? Would his life have turned out different? You have to wonder...


I very much doubt it.

Although going back to Boston didn't help (yet another bad move by Pitino.....) he was probably on a slippery downward slope either way. Clearly after his first year in the NBA he wasn't close to rock bottom, and was going to start using again if at all possible. You can't babysit someone 24/7 during the season and also during the offseason.

#562 HomeRunBaker


  • bet squelcher


  • 11718 posts

Posted 01 November 2011 - 11:40 PM

Great story, what would have happened if Herren had stayed in Denver? Would his life have turned out different? You have to wonder...

Jeff Allison is another player that immediately comes to mind with the parallels of being a local guy turned junkie, with so much promise. Tough...


Not sure what there is to wonder. Is alcohol, coke, and heroin and less addicting in Denver than in Boston? Herren was a user at a young age and never stopped.....it wasn't like it was the NBA influence or a return to New England that led to his demise, he was a timebomb since his Durfee days like his brother Mike was.

#563 Tyrone Biggums


  • nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion in colorado,


  • 4184 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:15 AM

Not sure what there is to wonder. Is alcohol, coke, and heroin and less addicting in Denver than in Boston? Herren was a user at a young age and never stopped.....it wasn't like it was the NBA influence or a return to New England that led to his demise, he was a timebomb since his Durfee days like his brother Mike was.


This is true, however he didn't have his friends in Denver that could give him his pills daily. He was getting babysat after games for the most part in Denver.

#564 TheoShmeo


  • Knows a LOT of people


  • 9509 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 07:04 AM

This is true, however he didn't have his friends in Denver that could give him his pills daily. He was getting babysat after games for the most part in Denver.

I was going to write the same thing and I wonder whether HRB had seen the documentary when he posted.

Herren was clearly at risk and Fall River would have always been there in the off season, of course. But he had some teammates who were looking out for him in Denver and his crew wasn't there.

PS: If Herren had come back from a summer of abusing himself to Denver, would guys like Van Exel have been looking for it and interceded? One of the many "what ifs," along with what would have happened had he not broken his arm in game one at BC, in Herren's story.

Edited by TheoShmeo, 02 November 2011 - 08:10 AM.


#565 HomeRunBaker


  • bet squelcher


  • 11718 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 08:36 AM

I was going to write the same thing and I wonder whether HRB had seen the documentary when he posted.

Herren was clearly at risk and Fall River would have always been there in the off season, of course. But he had some teammates who were looking out for him in Denver and his crew wasn't there.


No, i have not watched it yet i was only going by my knowledge of his situation during his time with the Nuggets, his actions back in New England the following summer and the fact that the Nuggets gave up on him after one season without any up and coming young PG's on the roster the following year.

There is only so long veterans can keep a time bomb like Chris down as they have their own families and don't have Chris with them in the offseason. I will try to watch it tonight but having recalled the days of Chris being "recruited" by Leo Papile and his BABC summer league travel AAU team along with the drugs and the characters that ran with them back then this was the only way Chris lived. Play hard and party even harder. The Papile/Kevin Mackey feeder system that led many of the top Boston (and USA in some cases) high school players to Cleveland State continued that pattern which ultimately failed due to the rampant drug usage among the players and coaches. When Chris returned following his rookie season in Denver he played a few games in the North Providence Pro-Am Summer League and was hanging with the same cast of characters he had growing up which was prior to the trade......it is very possible that the Nuggets had someone investigating to see what he was up to that summer as they were on the verge of making a large investment in him. That is only speculation on my part but it certainly passes the smell test from what i saw.

I suppose if Chris had lived 12 months a year with one of the Nugget veterans he would have had a better chance but that isn't a realistic scenario.

#566 Alcohol&Overcalls

  • 1406 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 04:32 PM

I suppose if Chris had lived 12 months a year with one of the Nugget veterans he would have had a better chance but that isn't a realistic scenario.


Per the documentary, they had him under essentially 24/7 watch for the time he was in Denver, especially while on the road - he basically got the "Josh Hamilton treatment."

Edited by Alcohol&Overcalls, 02 November 2011 - 04:32 PM.


#567 ljs252

  • 70 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:08 PM

Does anyone know when this will re-air? Had a prior commitment last night and wasn't able to see it unfortunately.

#568 PBDWake

  • 3171 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:54 PM

I think in about an hour

#569 ljs252

  • 70 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:08 PM

I think in about an hour


Haha thanks just saw the ad for it.

#570 radsoxfan


  • SoSH Member


  • 8442 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:59 PM

I was going to write the same thing and I wonder whether HRB had seen the documentary when he posted.

Herren was clearly at risk and Fall River would have always been there in the off season, of course. But he had some teammates who were looking out for him in Denver and his crew wasn't there.

PS: If Herren had come back from a summer of abusing himself to Denver, would guys like Van Exel have been looking for it and interceded? One of the many "what ifs," along with what would have happened had he not broken his arm in game one at BC, in Herren's story.


I don't know how you can watch that documentary and think that Herren's 10 year downward spiral will just magically not happen if he had better supervision. An addict is only going to stay clean for good with some serious internal motivation. This doesn't have to come from the type of stuff Herren went through (ruining his career, losing all his money, almost losing his family, near death experiences, personal embarrasment, etc). But it often does.

It certainly does not come from a couple of guys being nice to him and baby sitting him for 6 months. From everything we saw in that documentary, his mental state at that point was nowhere it needed to be for him to get clean for good.

Edited by radsoxfan, 02 November 2011 - 07:19 PM.


#571 radsoxfan


  • SoSH Member


  • 8442 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 08:45 PM

FWIW, the Bill Simmons Podcast today with Herren was very well done. Don't often listen to them, and dont usually find Simmons a great interviewer, but on this one he was great.

Bill asked about his time in Denver, and Herren thought staying may have prolonged his career a year or two, but he was on an addiction path regardless. He also admitted that there were many times in Denver he was out til 5 and the morning and doing drugs, it was just less in comparison to the surrounding years.

#572 Ferm Sheller


  • SoSH Member


  • 5908 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 10:28 PM

I don't know much about Chris Herren and I haven't seen this documentary and likely won't see it, but can someone please sum up why he's an interesting story? He was second round pick and even if he was clean, he likely wouldn't have amounted to much in the NBA. Seems like there probably are a perpetual line of JAGs, in all sports, whose end of the road is expedited by drug addiction.

Edited by Ferm Sheller, 02 November 2011 - 10:29 PM.


#573 HomeRunBaker


  • bet squelcher


  • 11718 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:01 PM

Per the documentary, they had him under essentially 24/7 watch for the time he was in Denver, especially while on the road - he basically got the "Josh Hamilton treatment."


Radsoxfan summed it up perfectly. The key part of your post is "for the time he was in Denver", unfortunately the NBA has an offseason which resulted in Herren reporting to Nuggets camp out of shape and 15 lbs or so over his college playing weight due to him returning to Fall River that summer.

I don't know much about Chris Herren and I haven't seen this documentary and likely won't see it, but can someone please sum up why he's an interesting story? He was second round pick and even if he was clean, he likely wouldn't have amounted to much in the NBA. Seems like there probably are a perpetual line of JAGs, in all sports, whose end of the road is expedited by drug addiction.


The only reason Herren was a 2nd round pick was due to his widely publicized drug use at Fresno State. The kid was a top HS prospect and easily a mid-1st round talent who was a pretty safe bet to be a successful player had he been able to commit to the game off the court. He shared the backcourt at Fresno with a 7-year NBA starting PG in Rafer Alston and it was Herren, and not Alston, who was the driving force and leader of that team. Herren didn't have any major weaknesses in his game and had the athleticism it takes to compete at the NBA level.....his lifestyle however made it impossible for him to round into a very good NBA player.

#574 Ferm Sheller


  • SoSH Member


  • 5908 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:07 PM

The only reason Herren was a 2nd round pick was due to his widely publicized drug use at Fresno State. The kid was a top HS prospect and easily a mid-1st round talent who was a pretty safe bet to be a successful player had he been able to commit to the game off the court. He shared the backcourt at Fresno with a 7-year NBA starting PG in Rafer Alston and it was Herren, and not Alston, who was the driving force and leader of that team. Herren didn't have any major weaknesses in his game and had the athleticism it takes to compete at the NBA level.....his lifestyle however made it impossible for him to round into a very good NBA player.


Oh, OK. He was the "guy who was on the cusp of having it all, but threw it away". That's the hook here. Wikipedia and other site I looked at didn't mention that he likely was on track for a long NBA career but for the addiction.

#575 rembrat


  • SoSH Member


  • 27079 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:30 PM

This was really well done. I put it slighty below "The Two Escobars" which was top notch.

#576 nattysez

  • 2464 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:50 PM

Oh, OK. He was the "guy who was on the cusp of having it all, but threw it away". That's the hook here. Wikipedia and other site I looked at didn't mention that he likely was on track for a long NBA career but for the addiction.


If you lived anywhere in Massachusetts east of Worcester when he was in high school, he was a superstar and it was big news that he was going to BC. All of which, I'm sure, got Simmons interested in getting this made (assuming he did, which I think is a fair assumption).

I thought the doc was really good.

And thanks to the person who mentioned Jeff Allison -- I was trying to remember that guy's name...

Edited by nattysez, 02 November 2011 - 11:51 PM.


#577 TheoShmeo


  • Knows a LOT of people


  • 9509 posts

Posted 03 November 2011 - 05:53 AM

I don't know how you can watch that documentary and think that Herren's 10 year downward spiral will just magically not happen if he had better supervision. An addict is only going to stay clean for good with some serious internal motivation. This doesn't have to come from the type of stuff Herren went through (ruining his career, losing all his money, almost losing his family, near death experiences, personal embarrasment, etc). But it often does.

It certainly does not come from a couple of guys being nice to him and baby sitting him for 6 months. From everything we saw in that documentary, his mental state at that point was nowhere it needed to be for him to get clean for good.

I don't disagree. My point wasn't that Denver would have been a cure all. It was that being taken out of that environment increased the degree of difficulty and probably accelerated things.

But no doubt, Herren was a prime candidate to implode in any environment and it was probably always a matter of time.

Even now, who would be surprised if he fell back? I hope he doesn't but the odds are not in his favor.

#578 Dehere

  • 2600 posts

Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:05 AM

Don't really think this is thread-worthy but it's such an insane story that I wanted to post it somewhere. I'm putting it here because this guy's department was responsible for shepherding the 30 For 30 series: http://m.deadspin.co...of-erin-andrews

I guess Tom Shales is going to have to write an addendum for the paperback version of his book.

#579 mabrowndog


  • Ask me about total zone...or paint


  • 39728 posts

Posted 08 November 2011 - 09:23 PM

Figured those of you who watched the "Unguarded" documentary on Chris Herren might be interested in this piece, which details his 3-month stay at a rehab center here in Falmouth.

link

#580 julesfan

  • 27 posts

Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:01 AM

The Auburn/Alabama episode was top notch. Living in this area, it completely captured the frenzy of this rivalry.
On a side note, living in this area means I'm subjected to the Paul Finebaum show. His callers are beyond awful.

#581 TheGodfather

  • Pip
  • 40 posts

Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:25 AM

The Auburn/Alabama episode was top notch. Living in this area, it completely captured the frenzy of this rivalry.
On a side note, living in this area means I'm subjected to the Paul Finebaum show. His callers are beyond awful.


I thought it was well done too. A little too heavy on the Harvey Updike for my taste (even if he was the one who made the rivalry go nuclear). Did we really need to see more of him than Saban and Stallings (or even Gay Talese)?

Totally agree about the Finebaum show. I gave it a try on Sirius and gave up after about a month. If listenting to a bunch of rednecks tell inside jokes is your idea of a good time then knock yourself out. Also, spare me the Paul Finebaum as dispassionate observer while the madness swirls around him. He is an Alabama fanboy through and through, and would probably have Nick Saban's love child if it were biologically possible.

#582 JMDurron

  • 4519 posts

Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:50 PM

I thought it was well done too. A little too heavy on the Harvey Updike for my taste (even if he was the one who made the rivalry go nuclear). Did we really need to see more of him than Saban and Stallings (or even Gay Talese)?

Totally agree about the Finebaum show. I gave it a try on Sirius and gave up after about a month. If listenting to a bunch of rednecks tell inside jokes is your idea of a good time then knock yourself out. Also, spare me the Paul Finebaum as dispassionate observer while the madness swirls around him. He is an Alabama fanboy through and through, and would probably have Nick Saban's love child if it were biologically possible.


He is more of an attention whore than a fanboy of any particular school. He panders to Alabama fans more because there are more of them and because it gets him better ratings. He's also perfectly willing to troll them when things are going Auburn's way, plus that keeps the misguided Auburn fans who expose themselves to his schtick on board. I believe he is actually a Tennessee grad, which might mean that UT is actually thinking way more long term when it comes to torturing a rival's fanbase.

I didn't watch the piece, but it seems like enough fans from both camps are annoyed about it that they probably did a fair job. I just have no interest in ESPN's take on the rivalry, particularly "through the perspective of Finebaum and his callers", or whatever the premise was.

#583 julesfan

  • 27 posts

Posted 09 November 2011 - 09:00 PM

He is more of an attention whore than a fanboy of any particular school. He panders to Alabama fans more because there are more of them and because it gets him better ratings. He's also perfectly willing to troll them when things are going Auburn's way, plus that keeps the misguided Auburn fans who expose themselves to his schtick on board. I believe he is actually a Tennessee grad, which might mean that UT is actually thinking way more long term when it comes to torturing a rival's fanbase.

I didn't watch the piece, but it seems like enough fans from both camps are annoyed about it that they probably did a fair job. I just have no interest in ESPN's take on the rivalry, particularly "through the perspective of Finebaum and his callers", or whatever the premise was.



You should really watch it, the main focus was the take of the former players. Finebaum was a minor character in this, at least to me.

#584 Stu Nahan

  • 4087 posts

Posted 18 November 2011 - 08:24 PM

I am finally getting around to seeing the Luis Tiant documentary. Amazing. Made me love El Tiante
more and I only know his pitching through ESPN Classic, etc.

#585 PBDWake

  • 3171 posts

Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:32 AM

For those interested, Amazon's running a sale today on these. You can either get Vol 1 and 2 on DVD for $25 apiece, or do what I did and get the BluRay box set, which is apparently all 30, for $50.

#586 johnmd20


  • voice of soccer


  • 20010 posts

Posted 04 February 2012 - 12:17 PM

Thanks for the tip...picked this up as I missed...well...about 27 of them.

(null)


1800 minutes for 60 bucks. Not a bad deal.

#587 Lose Remerswaal


  • Leaves after the 8th inning


  • 24283 posts

Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:08 AM

A new 30 for 30 is coming


This time, short subjects on Grantland.com

#588 drleather2001


  • given himself a skunk spot


  • 18334 posts

Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:17 AM

If it's not related to the 30 years that ESPN's been around, and it's not on ESPN, and it's not full-length features...

Tell me why it's called "30 for 30" again?

#589 Vinho Tinto

  • 3980 posts

Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:37 AM

If it's not related to the 30 years that ESPN's been around, and it's not on ESPN, and it's not full-length features...

Tell me why it's called "30 for 30" again?


For the same reason it's still called the Big Ten: Branding.

#590 kenneycb


  • Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play


  • 8214 posts

Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:38 AM

Brand recognition.

Edit: What Red Wine said.

Edited by kenneycb, 15 May 2012 - 10:38 AM.


#591 BGrif21125

  • 4616 posts

Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:38 AM

I believe the digital shorts on Grantland are in addition to a new round of full length docs on ESPN.



#592 gammoseditor


  • also had a stroke


  • 2955 posts

Posted 15 May 2012 - 10:56 AM

I believe the digital shorts on Grantland are in addition to a new round of full length docs on ESPN.


This is right. From the linked story:

As the films roll out, they will be augmented on Grantland by podcasts, feature stories and oral histories. A short digital film — which will be unrelated to the longer ones — will make its debut each month on Grantland.



#593 Gdiguy

  • 528 posts

Posted 16 May 2012 - 02:10 AM

The first short is up, and it's a (really pretty sad) view of Pete Rose's current life signing memorabilia in Vegas (look down towards the bottom of the page)

http://www.grantland...d-our-attention

Edited by Gdiguy, 16 May 2012 - 02:11 AM.


#594 DaveRoberts'Shoes


  • Aaron Burr


  • 3029 posts

Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:20 PM

I just watched Four Days in October. Again.

I think I should watch that weekly. If not daily. I could get by on five and a half hours of sleep a night...

#595 Vandalman

  • 268 posts

Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:45 AM

I just watched Four Days in October. Again.

I think I should watch that weekly. If not daily. I could get by on five and a half hours of sleep a night...


The "home movie" feel of it with all the cell phone footage from various angles just adds to the drama.

#596 Jeff Frye

  • 70 posts

Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:30 PM

A great series and I'm truly looking forward to the next round of docs.

Going back to earlier posts about Unguarded (which I enjoyed a lot), one thing stuck out. When they talk about Chris being traded to Boston, and his brother Mike's quote;

It was a disaster: put a kid with a raging drug problem with unlimited access to it. That was a death sentence. Fuck the Celtics.


Fuck the Celtics? Pitino didn't trade for Chris to see how much further he could fall into addiction. The comment made no sense to me.

#597 fairlee76

  • 2141 posts

Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:53 PM

A great series and I'm truly looking forward to the next round of docs.

Going back to earlier posts about Unguarded (which I enjoyed a lot), one thing stuck out. When they talk about Chris being traded to Boston, and his brother Mike's quote;



Fuck the Celtics? Pitino didn't trade for Chris to see how much further he could fall into addiction. The comment made no sense to me.

I vaguely remember watching that and thinking "No, fuck you and the rest of his family/boys/enablers. You not only stood by and watched this kid throw it all away, you actively helped him in the pursuit."

Also, as others have said, it does not sound as though Herren magically got clean while in Denver. His coming to Boston made drug acquisition easier, but he was a long way from the bottom when he was in his early 20s. He would have bottomed out eventually irrespective of location.

#598 BringBagwelltoBoston

  • 46 posts

Posted 29 May 2012 - 04:57 PM

http://www.grantland...d-our-attention

Pete Rose - just depressing...

#599 loshjott

  • 4262 posts

Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:08 AM

Groupon is offering the "Collector's Series on Blu-ray" of all 30 episodes for $39.

#600 bbc23

  • 815 posts

Posted 06 August 2012 - 02:47 PM

Netflix has all the 30 for 30s up right now
Also, new schedule of 30 for 30s has been released, the most "prominent" being about the culture of Bo Jackson and "Broke" on how athletes squander/lose their money featuring Bernie Kosar.
http://content.usato.../1#.UCAezk1lTfQ



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users