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8/12 PENBIS ANALYSIS ONLY (now 10% funnier!) : Sox vs. Tiggers


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#1 Fratboy


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 09:30 AM

I could get used to this, and with an unholy hot Beckett going, odds are pretty good I get to do this again tomorrow.

I think something I'd like to shoot for tonight - and granted, I really haven't been around the last couple nights - is loosening the reins ever so slightly. I love the analysis here, and it makes for a fantastic complementary viewing experience. It just feels a little, shall we say, dry. Just like watching the game with your buddies at the bar, in addition to the observations and analysis, there's always some humor to go along with it. The combination of the two is what makes for, in my mind at least, an awesome game thread. Mojo and WIN!! and BAY!!! and TED!!!!11 are definitely off limits, but I would certainly say that non-reactionary humorous dialogue and conversation infused with the analysis is something I'd encourage.

Does that make sense?

Edited by Fratboy, 12 August 2009 - 09:31 AM.


#2 JimBoSox9


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 11:29 AM

It does. I think you're completely and utterly tilting at windmills to try and capture that perfect balance, but god dammit someone has to try.

This game thread thing has been, well...I'm trying to love it. I feel caught between the Scarecrow and the Tin Man.

anyhoo...Beckett. Last time around against DET he went 7.2IP/3R/0ER. 0ER in his last two starts.

Saw on NESN that Galarraga was sick and probably wouldn't be able to make tonight's start, but no word on who would take his place. Hard not to feel good about this one.

#3 Laser Show

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 11:38 AM

I believe, Frat, that it has been lacking penbis.

Very favorable matchup if Galarraga can't start as reported. I have to believe Youks would be available for tonight, no?

My hopeful guess:

CF Ellsbury
2B Pedroia
1B Martinez
3B Youkilis
LF Bay
RF Drew
DH Lowell
C Varitek
SS Green

EDIT: In all seriousness, do you mean like the posting of the "Mike Lowell - pinch runner" screen cap yesterday?

Edited by Laser Show, 12 August 2009 - 11:40 AM.


#4 InsideTheParker


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 12:08 PM

I hope the addition of a modicum of humor won't eliminate us straight (wo)men.

You know I mean "straight" here in the sense of Dean to Jerry, George to Gracie, Bud Abbott to Lou Costello, Rowan to Martin, right? (Tried to think of some pairs that wouldn't date me so much, but I think comedy teams are a thing of the past?)

The most interesting points about tonight's game for me are:1) who is pitching for the Tiggers?
And 2) how can I watch this game and Pedro simultaneously since I don't have picture in picture or any of that fancy stuff.

According to the Detroit News, News, Galarraga is "sick as a dog" and Leyland will probably pluck a starter from the pen rather than call anyone up from the minors.


#5 Fratboy


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 12:50 PM

QUOTE (InsideTheParker @ Aug 12 2009, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hope the addition of a modicum of humor won't eliminate us straight (wo)men.

You know I mean "straight" here in the sense of Dean to Jerry, George to Gracie, Bud Abbott to Lou Costello, Rowan to Martin, right? (Tried to think of some pairs that wouldn't date me so much, but I think comedy teams are a thing of the past?)

Of course not. It's not my intention to be the complete and total arbiter of these threads, but rather to gently steer it, I suppose. And YMMV, but I like my humor dry, so you should be a perfect fit here regardless. Your insights are on point, and you've got some funny in you too.

Although strictly speaking, the team of Pedroia and Green have produced certain levels of comedy of late, with Pedroia playing the role of the unwitting straight man, unfortunately.

#6 Trlicek's Whip

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 12:52 PM

QUOTE (InsideTheParker @ Aug 12 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
According to the Detroit News, News, Galarraga is "sick as a dog" and Leyland will probably pluck a starter from the pen rather than call anyone up from the minors.
I don't know what SP schedules are like regarding throwing sessions between starts, but Zack Miner is the guy in their bullpen who's most likely the emergency starter, but he pitched two days ago (2 IP, 34 total pitches). They could run him out there for a few innings and then patch together the rest of the game.

Re: more levity in here -- I agree about lacing it in. I love reading the analysis and Jnai / Sprowl Pitch FX porn. And I don't really like the free-for-all noise in the main threads (punctuated by same-day member/lurkers befouling the threads with their new-found MFY swagger).

I am hopeful we can broker a peace between the two extremes.

Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 12 August 2009 - 12:53 PM.


#7 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 12:58 PM

I was listening on the radio last night and Uncle Joe said Miner was warming up at one point during the game. I'd be surprised if they tapped him for tonight.

#8 JimBoSox9


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 01:08 PM

QUOTE (Smiling Joe Hesketh @ Aug 12 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was listening on the radio last night and Uncle Joe said Miner was warming up at one point during the game. I'd be surprised if they tapped him for tonight.


Funny, my thinking leads me in the opposite direction. If they were willing to use him last night, they'd definitely be willing to use him tonight, no?

#9 Smiling Joe Hesketh


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 01:13 PM

QUOTE (JimBoSox9 @ Aug 12 2009, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Funny, my thinking leads me in the opposite direction. If they were willing to use him last night, they'd definitely be willing to use him tonight, no?

I'm thinking he might tire too easily from warming last night to go even 5 innings today. He also pitched 2 innings in Monday's game and took the loss, so I'd be very surprised if they asked him to pitch tonight as well.

#10 E5 Yaz


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 01:21 PM

Perhaps it's because the failures remain in the memory, but it seems to me that the Red Sox often have trouble with last-minute starters or lineup replacements. Something along the lines of their inability to get out backup catchers.

#11 mabrowndog


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 01:21 PM

QUOTE (Fratboy @ Aug 12 2009, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think something I'd like to shoot for tonight - and granted, I really haven't been around the last couple nights - is loosening the reins ever so slightly. I love the analysis here, and it makes for a fantastic complementary viewing experience. It just feels a little, shall we say, dry. Just like watching the game with your buddies at the bar, in addition to the observations and analysis, there's always some humor to go along with it. The combination of the two is what makes for, in my mind at least, an awesome game thread. Mojo and WIN!! and BAY!!! and TED!!!!11 are definitely off limits, but I would certainly say that non-reactionary humorous dialogue and conversation infused with the analysis is something I'd encourage.

Does that make sense?

Yes, it does, Tom. Last night, in addition to providing my usual mind-blowing breakdowns of the game action, I injected humorous and entertaining banter at the appropriate moments.

However, I was disappointed the awesomely hysterical one-liner I cracked during the tribute to Eunice Kennedy Shriver was met with a chorus of crickets. I mean, seriously. To quote Yammer, "My post was ridiculously funny. I demand that it get more attention."

#12 Shoeless Joe Wood

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 01:48 PM

Assuming Galarraga is unable to pitch, I think their only options would be moving Verlander up a day (although he's never started on less than 4 days of rest), or having Miner pitch. Other than Miner, the only other pitcher in their bullpen to have ever started an MLB game is Brandon Lyon (11 in 2001, 10 in 2002), and I can't see them wanting him to start any games.

#13 mikeford


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 01:49 PM

Even if Gallaraga does make this start, he has been... well not good this year. 6-10 record with a 5+ ERA and a 1.5 WHIP over the course of the season, and his last 2 starts have been pretty terrible, failing to get through the 6th both times.

8/7 against the Twins: 5.0IP, 8 hits, 3 ER, 5 BB, 3 K
8/2 against the Tribe: 5.2IP, 11 hits, 8 ER, 2 BB, 3 K

They had to use the guy they were going to start tonight last night thanks to the brawl as well. Zach Miner would probably get tapped just out of necessity if Gallaraga can't go but I'm almost thinking the Sox might be better off with a less than 100% Gallaraga taking the hill anyway.

#14 HomeBrew1901


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 01:55 PM

QUOTE (Fratboy @ Aug 12 2009, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I could get used to this, and with an unholy hot Beckett going, odds are pretty good I get to do this again tomorrow.

I think something I'd like to shoot for tonight - and granted, I really haven't been around the last couple nights - is loosening the reins ever so slightly. I love the analysis here, and it makes for a fantastic complementary viewing experience. It just feels a little, shall we say, dry. Just like watching the game with your buddies at the bar, in addition to the observations and analysis, there's always some humor to go along with it. The combination of the two is what makes for, in my mind at least, an awesome game thread. Mojo and WIN!! and BAY!!! and TED!!!!11 are definitely off limits, but I would certainly say that non-reactionary humorous dialogue and conversation infused with the analysis is something I'd encourage.

Does that make sense?

I agree with this 100% Frat. While these analysis threads have been interesting and better than 5 pages of one words answers on the other thread after every K, they aren't as much fun to participate in while watching a game. I even think some reactionary posts are OK after a big hit or a great catch as long as some thought is put into them and they don't consist of one word over reactions.

QUOTE
However, I was disappointed the awesomely hysterical one-liner I cracked during the tribute to Eunice Kennedy Shriver was met with a chorus of crickets. I mean, seriously.
44 my ass.

Edited by HomeBrew1901, 12 August 2009 - 01:58 PM.


#15 BucketOBalls


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 03:06 PM

Here is the bullpen usage report. (Scroll down for the tigers )

There does not seem to be an obvious option for the Tigers. It looks like they either try to piece something together or call up a pitcher. They don't seem to have anyone who is super rested up at the moment though.

#16 TheYellowDart5


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 03:29 PM

QUOTE (Laser Show @ Aug 12 2009, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe, Frat, that it has been lacking penbis.

Very favorable matchup if Galarraga can't start as reported. I have to believe Youks would be available for tonight, no?

My hopeful guess:

CF Ellsbury
2B Pedroia
1B Martinez
3B Youkilis
LF Bay
RF Drew
DH Lowell
C Varitek
SS Green

EDIT: In all seriousness, do you mean like the posting of the "Mike Lowell - pinch runner" screen cap yesterday?

Youkilis starts his suspension tonight and Martinez is getting some rest, so tonight's lineup is:

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Bay
Ortiz
Lowell
Drew
Kotchman
Varitek
Green

I really would've preferred Lowell/Drew/Ortiz, but I guess that Francona wants to keep the LHers and RHers alternating.

#17 InsideTheParker


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 04:09 PM

It's Zach Miner:Globe

#18 Redkluzu


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 04:26 PM

QUOTE (Fratboy @ Aug 12 2009, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I could get used to this, and with an unholy hot Beckett going, odds are pretty good I get to do this again tomorrow.

I think something I'd like to shoot for tonight - and granted, I really haven't been around the last couple nights - is loosening the reins ever so slightly. I love the analysis here, and it makes for a fantastic complementary viewing experience. It just feels a little, shall we say, dry. Just like watching the game with your buddies at the bar, in addition to the observations and analysis, there's always some humor to go along with it. The combination of the two is what makes for, in my mind at least, an awesome game thread. Mojo and WIN!! and BAY!!! and TED!!!!11 are definitely off limits, but I would certainly say that non-reactionary humorous dialogue and conversation infused with the analysis is something I'd encourage.

Does that make sense?



You never make sense, oh no, I mean you always make sense. Chiming in that the balance isn't always easy but I've been very much appreciating the tone, and sure loosening up a bit without the MOJO would help. One thing that made me laugh a lot is when Foulkey -- in the other game thread -- asked if anyone heard classical music when they entered this thread. While I like me some Bach, I also am into folk, the blues, a lot of rock and definitely some swing. But no head banging please.

#19 RingoOSU


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 04:36 PM

QUOTE (Redkluzu @ Aug 12 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You never make sense, oh no, I mean you always make sense. Chiming in that the balance isn't always easy but I've been very much appreciating the tone, and sure loosening up a bit without the MOJO would help. One thing that made me laugh a lot is when Foulkey -- in the other game thread -- asked if anyone heard classical music when they entered this thread. While I like me some Bach, I also am into folk, the blues, a lot of rock and definitely some swing. But no head banging please.

I recommend Calexico.

#20 Jnai


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:35 PM

For Blacken-



This is as close as I could come to getting him in the half-jog warming up. Tried like 5 times.

#21 BucketOBalls


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:37 PM

QUOTE (Redkluzu @ Aug 12 2009, 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But no head banging please.

You may want to close your eyes when the following people are batting: Ortiz, Nick Green. And your right eye when Tek is hitting. And when a ball goes to the shortstop.

That lineup doesn't make sense though. (added hands)
QUOTE (TheYellowDart5 @ Aug 12 2009, 04:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ellsbury - L
Pedroia - R
Bay - R
Ortiz - L
Lowell- R
Drew - L
Kotchman - L
Varitek - #
Green - R


The obvious alternating lineup would be
Ellsbury - L
Pedroia - R
Drew - L
Bay - R
Kotchman - L
Lowell- R
Varitek - #
Ortiz - L
Green - R

I've lurked long enough to know lineup doesn't matter. I think what it says about Tito's though process annoys me more than actual effects.

#22 JulE6


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:37 PM

The Detroit pitching situation really is dire tonight. Miner is going to start, but he threw 2 innings and 34 pitches on Monday and warmed up last night, and he also threw 10 pitches on Saturday. Chances are he's no good for anything longer than what, 65 pitches? His season high is 85, back in his first outing. He threw 67 on June 4 vs. the Sox, but since then his high is 57 (Aug. 4) and 44. Their other long man was used last night. Perry pitched last night and is more of a 1 inning guy, same with Bobby Seay and Fu-Te Ni. I mean it would be highly unlikely they'd do this with a young arm, but Porcello could theoretically be available (15 pitches, but a full SP warmup + him being 20 probably rules that out). Not good times for the Detroit staff.

#23 TheYellowDart5


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 06:04 PM

QUOTE (JulE6 @ Aug 12 2009, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Detroit pitching situation really is dire tonight. Miner is going to start, but he threw 2 innings and 34 pitches on Monday and warmed up last night, and he also threw 10 pitches on Saturday. Chances are he's no good for anything longer than what, 65 pitches? His season high is 85, back in his first outing. He threw 67 on June 4 vs. the Sox, but since then his high is 57 (Aug. 4) and 44. Their other long man was used last night. Perry pitched last night and is more of a 1 inning guy, same with Bobby Seay and Fu-Te Ni. I mean it would be highly unlikely they'd do this with a young arm, but Porcello could theoretically be available (15 pitches, but a full SP warmup + him being 20 probably rules that out). Not good times for the Detroit staff.

Porcello's already started serving his suspension, so he can't pitch (and it would've been an extreme longshot anyway).

Lambert (who relieved Porcello yesterday) was sent down earlier today. Freddy Dolsi was called up in his place. So the Tigers will have an extra arm available if need be.

#24 Trlicek's Whip

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 06:06 PM

QUOTE (JulE6 @ Aug 12 2009, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Detroit pitching situation really is dire tonight. Their other long man was used last night. Perry pitched last night and is more of a 1 inning guy, same with Bobby Seay and Fu-Te Ni.


The Porcello replacement in last night's game, Chris Lambert, was already optioned back to AAA. Freddy Dolsi was called up to take his place. He's probably the first guy after Miner but is only throwing RP innings in the minors. So, two innings, maybe three if he's lucky/sacrificed?

Closer Fernando Rodney is the only other Detroit RP that hasn't pitched this series. He last pitched 8/9 so if it's not a save situation he could get that "tune-up" inning if they're behind or even four outs or something like that.

Edit: While I'm typing slowly, Yellow Dart nails it.

Edited by Trlicek's Whip, 12 August 2009 - 06:07 PM.


#25 rembrat


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 06:37 PM

So, Mike Lowell can play DH going forward, yes?

#26 HomeBrew1901


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 06:38 PM

I don't get it, is it possible that being benched for a couple of games and pissing him off really had that big an effect on Lowell? 3 HR in 4 at bats is pretty huge or is it just bad pitching that he is feasting on?

QUOTE
So, Mike Lowell can play DH going forward, yes?
He's better than Ortiz right now.

Edited by HomeBrew1901, 12 August 2009 - 06:39 PM.


#27 rembrat


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 06:41 PM

QUOTE (HomeBrew1901 @ Aug 12 2009, 07:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't get it, is it possible that being benched for a couple of games and pissing him off really had that big an effect on Lowell? 3 HR in 4 at bats is pretty huge or is it just bad pitching that he is feasting on?<br /><br /> He's better than Ortiz right now.


Whatever the case is he is feasting on the same AAAA arms that Ortiz isn't. Once Youkilis gets back and Lowell is still hot, you can't sit him down. Even if he is swinging half the bat he is swinging right now he needs to be in the lineup (as a DH)

Edited by rembrat, 12 August 2009 - 06:42 PM.


#28 Trlicek's Whip

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 06:47 PM

QUOTE
Eck: "Uppercut Flip Job"
QUOTE (E5 Yaz @ Aug 12 2009, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The second HR last night was exactly this type of swing
I don't get to watch a lot of games on television. Are these swings Lowell's taking consistent with his hitting approach? Or is he now overcompensating for either the post-hip surgery and/or his tipping point due to age, so is going to just swing away? A lot of sluggers take this tack, sacrificing plate discipline and CT% in order to hit more mistakes and HR's to stave off the beginning of the inevitable decline. It ultimately catches up, so this is a shrinking window.

I guess what I'm asking is 1) is Lowell already overcompensating for slipping skills due to age? And 2) if tangible and not just a blip in counting stats, will this adjustment last long enough for him to be a DH in 2010? [Let's table the reality that Ortiz is still around so this isn't easily possible].

#29 JulE6


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 06:50 PM

I think it has to do more with the pitches he hit. Tonight and last night he got pitches down in the zone and, like Eck said, was able to flip them over the wall. I'll have to pay more attention to see if it's a consistent thing but it might be a situational deal, too.

#30 phragle


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:01 PM

Who hit the long flyout to Drew?

#31 JulE6


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:02 PM

QUOTE (phragle @ Aug 12 2009, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who hit the long flyout to Drew?

Avila, the catcher.

#32 Shoeless Joe Wood

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:03 PM

Bay now has 3 more HRs, and 2 more RBIs in the month of August than he did in all of July.

#33 phragle


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:05 PM

QUOTE (HomeBrew1901 @ Aug 12 2009, 07:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't get it, is it possible that being benched for a couple of games and pissing him off really had that big an effect on Lowell? 3 HR in 4 at bats is pretty huge or is it just bad pitching that he is feasting on?

Maybe hes really pissed.

Nothing to interesting or out of the ordinary on the Beckett charts

He is pitching mostly to the his left of the strike zone and everything in play is on the left part of the zone too

Avila (thanks JulE6) hit the long fly out off of Becketts first and only cutter

I mentioned yesterday that Taz released his curve noticably higher than his fastball and forkball. Beckett relases them all at the same height

notice that some change-up are identified as 2-seamers

#34 Nixon's Hat Stain

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:10 PM

QUOTE (Shoeless Joe Wood @ Aug 12 2009, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bay now has 3 more HRs, and 2 more RBIs in the month of August than he did in all of July.


Well it helps that the Tigers pitching is mediocre at best. I'm not sure whether Bay has actually gotten it back together again, or if it's a matter of facing suspect pitching at best the past 2 nights. If it was a timing issue, as he claims it was, he seems to be watching the ball in much better and staying back on it. He drove a lot of stuff opposite field last night, and now he's turning around on pitches, which to me is a sign that he's being more aggressive and figuring things out as far as pitch speeds.

#35 phragle


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:22 PM

Here is some analysis: Josh Beckett is nasty!

swinging strikes on the 4-seamer (4), change (2), and curve (2). No wiffs on the 2-seamer

Edit: formatting

Edited by phragle, 12 August 2009 - 07:23 PM.


#36 Buckner's Boots

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:27 PM

Does anyone else, as a baseball fan, get offended that they're throwing high fastballs to Bay? I'm happy, as a Red Sox fan, to see the result, but like I said, as a baseball fan I'm wondering who's been scouting this team.

#37 rembrat


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:30 PM

But pitchers have to show him their fastballs to keep him honest and speed up his bat. I'm sure that's not where they wanted that pitch to end up though.

#38 phragle


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:38 PM

the hit (homer) came off a 4-seamer not in a bad location

Edited by phragle, 12 August 2009 - 07:39 PM.


#39 rembrat


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:42 PM

Watching it again, the pitch went exactly where it was intended. I stand corrected.

#40 BucketOBalls


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:46 PM

QUOTE (rembrat @ Aug 12 2009, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Watching it again, the pitch went exactly where it was intended. I stand corrected.


So, your saying it's on Tek then? smile.gif

Edited by BucketOBalls, 12 August 2009 - 07:48 PM.


#41 TheYellowDart5


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:48 PM

A day after appearing as a pinch runner, Mike Lowell beats out an infield single.

Coming up next: Death riding a pale horse.

#42 Jnai


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:48 PM

Mike Lowell... infield hit? After "Mike Lowell, Pinch Runner", maybe the least likely event in the 2009 regular season.

#43 phragle


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:48 PM

QUOTE (BucketOBalls @ Aug 12 2009, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, your saying it's on Tek then?

I think so.

LOL at Lowell

Edited by phragle, 12 August 2009 - 07:49 PM.


#44 InsideTheParker


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:49 PM

So, what happened to Frat and his 10%? I hope he's OK.

Edited by InsideTheParker, 12 August 2009 - 07:50 PM.


#45 rembrat


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:51 PM

Mike Lowell is Hella Slow: IFBH% (infield basehit %) 1.9%

That's coming into today. Might get into the 2's after that one. Might.

#46 Jnai


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:55 PM

In all fairness, this strikezone is in the running for one of the worst called all year.

#47 rembrat


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:57 PM

Drew does that a lot. He'll cross the plate standing up instead of sliding even on close plays.

#48 Jnai


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:58 PM

QUOTE (rembrat @ Aug 12 2009, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Drew does that a lot. He'll cross the plate standing up instead of sliding even on close plays.


Doesn't care. Or, maybe, he wasn't told to slide by the guy at the plate.

#49 Dogman2


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:58 PM

I know Varitek hasn't hit much in the last 2 months but he still is able to draw walks which suggests he still has pitch recognition. Perhaps he can hit a bit down the stretch.

#50 phragle


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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:58 PM

QUOTE (Jnai @ Aug 12 2009, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In all fairness, this strikezone is in the running for one of the worst called all year.

The home run would have been called a ball, even though it was a clear strike. Whats the book on this up Jnai?