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Adam LaRoche to Sox


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#101 ngruz25


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:09 PM

QUOTE (SeanBerry @ Jul 22 2009, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You people crack me up sometimes.

I'm with you. We got a better player than Mike Lowell, and likely for nothing. It cracks me up that people were pining for Aubrey Huff and are now bitching about Adam LaRoche.

There is the fear that Tito will keep playing Lowell regardless of the LaRoche acquisition. That might be a legitimate qualm.

#102 mt8thsw9th


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:09 PM

QUOTE (Laser Show @ Jul 22 2009, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
mlbtraderumors.com


So a couple of fringe guys for a player that allows the Red Sox to field a better lineup (one without Lowell) and infield? Oh the humanity!

Solid move, not great, but anything that doesn't mortgage the farm to make the team a bit better is always a good thing.

#103 bd11

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE (MartyBarrettMVP @ Jul 22 2009, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
EEI saying PIT gets Argenis Diaz and Hunter Strickland but that LaRoche was still in the Bucs dugout as of 15 mins ago


Given the Sox' recent international ss grab Diaz may make sense but I'm sorry to see him go given his defensive reputation. I was hoping they gave up absolutely nothing.

#104 RingoOSU


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE (SeanBerry @ Jul 22 2009, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He's 29, has had an OPS+ every year he's been in the league

Who hasn't?

#105 Rough Carrigan


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:10 PM

The Fielding Bible numbers for LaRoche from over at Bill James Online were as follows:

2007 +2 ranked 11th
2008 -6 ranked 29th
2009 -3 ranks 26th

So, yeah, average to a bit below, consistent with UZR's general assessment.

#106 MartyBarrettMVP

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE (E5 Yaz @ Jul 22 2009, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Any chance that the "LaRoche" someone saw in the Pirates dugout was his brother


I suppose, yeah that's what I was thinking too...

#107 Steve Dillard


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:11 PM

That's great because Diaz was never going to make it, having been superseded by new signee Jose Iglesias from Cuba (probably start in Portland or maybe Salem), and Yamico Navarro (in Salem, but now probably on his way to Portland). This clears one of those spots on the 40 man, too.



#108 Trlicek's Whip

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:11 PM

QUOTE (Laschelle Tarver @ Jul 22 2009, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Agreed, but I am speculating I guess on why Laroche picks up so much in the second half of the year in terms of familiarity with pitching after having faced most of the league once.
Counter-speculations: he likes the warmer months as a hitter. But then he sees AL pitching for the first time and doesn't hit like Bay. But THEN maybe Bay gives him the book on these pitchers and they both become the new millenium Bash Bros. We both are agreed that we're drifting away from quantifiable "truthiness" - and on LaRoche strengthening the team's bench, especially if it limits Lowell's petrification in the field.

#109 JulE6


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:11 PM

Argenis Diaz? Are you kidding me, Theo? Absolutely indefensible move. Adam LaRoche is not the kind of player you deal a potential MLB starting SS for.

#110 Harry Hooper


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:13 PM


Theo already ordered the name plate for the locker. It reads: Adam "Glenallen" LaRoche.


Kotsay hasn't really played in the OF for a while now, correct? I'm not sure he really can on his dinged-up calf muscle. Someone tell Buchholz he's the emergency OF.

#111 GreyisGone

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:14 PM

QUOTE (JulE6 @ Jul 22 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Argenis Diaz? Are you kidding me, Theo? Absolutely indefensible move. Adam LaRoche is not the kind of player you deal a potential MLB starting SS for.

This is true, which is why it's a good thing Diaz blows at hitting.

#112 URI


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:15 PM

QUOTE (JulE6 @ Jul 22 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Argenis Diaz? Are you kidding me, Theo? Absolutely indefensible move. Adam LaRoche is not the kind of player you deal a potential MLB starting SS for.


I'll be sure to pass this message along to Theo.

Might I also direct you to the game threads where you can comment without using your brain a little more freely.

#113 Mystic Merlin


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:15 PM

QUOTE (JulE6 @ Jul 22 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Argenis Diaz? Are you kidding me, Theo? Absolutely indefensible move. Adam LaRoche is not the kind of player you deal a potential MLB starting SS for.


Huh? On what planet was Argenis Diaz tabbed as anything more than a future reserve, if he makes it at all?

He can't hit. Period. And he's not even the highest ranked SS in the Sox system (Navarro).

EDIT - If you're kidding, then touche.

Edited by Mystic Merlin, 22 July 2009 - 12:16 PM.


#114 Shelterdog


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:16 PM

QUOTE (JulE6 @ Jul 22 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Argenis Diaz? Are you kidding me, Theo? Absolutely indefensible move. Adam LaRoche is not the kind of player you deal a potential MLB starting SS for.


This. When you're in a pennant race you never trade a AA guy with 619 OPS for a seasoned pro at a need position with a career 824 OPS. If you're going to give up a guy like Diaz, you should be getting a borderline allstar.

#115 Rough Carrigan


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:17 PM

QUOTE (LynnRoyalRooter @ Jul 22 2009, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's probably worth about a game or two to the Sox in the standings due to the following things
1)Playing instead of Lowell against some RHP.
2)Lowell possibly being able to contribute some down the stretch in the games he DOES play with the add'l rest.
3)Sox aren't stuck with the Kotsay at 1B scenario that hurt them in the playoffs last year during the regular season if Lowell goes down for good.

I would bet that the Sox got him for a song, took the $ off the Pirates hands and gave up some one that would never play for the Sox. We'll see what washes out.

You left out
4) Any game that Grandpa Lowell does play and the Sox have a lead after 7 innings, they bring LaRoche in to play first and move Youkilis to third and have an ambulatory third baseman

#116 ngruz25


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:17 PM

QUOTE (JulE6 @ Jul 22 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Argenis Diaz? Are you kidding me, Theo? Absolutely indefensible move. Adam LaRoche is not the kind of player you deal a potential MLB starting SS for.

You're joking, right?

I think it's safe to say that Sox Prospect's slobbering of Diaz was a little premature, as he's been an error machine in the minors so far. Couple that with a .682 career MiLB OPS (.619 this season) and there is probably a less than 10% chance that Diaz ever becomes a starting MLB SS. There's probably a less than 50% chance that he ever even makes the majors.

Meanwhile, there's a 100% chance that Adam LaRoche contributes in some way to a team fighting for a World Series.

On second thought, maybe you are joking...

Edited by ngruz25, 22 July 2009 - 12:19 PM.


#117 P'tucket, rhymes with...


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:17 PM

QUOTE (JulE6 @ Jul 22 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Argenis Diaz? Are you kidding me, Theo? Absolutely indefensible move. Adam LaRoche is not the kind of player you deal a potential MLB starting SS for.


He can't hit a lick and has been made redundant by younger guys and recent acquisitions. The perfect player to make the Pirates feel like they got something when in fact we're giving up nothing.

#118 Trautwein's Degree


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:19 PM

QUOTE (Trlicek's Whip @ Jul 22 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Counter-speculations: he likes the warmer months as a hitter. But then he sees AL pitching for the first time and doesn't hit like Bay. But THEN maybe Bay gives him the book on these pitchers and they both become the new millenium Bash Bros. We both are agreed that we're drifting away from quantifiable "truthiness" - and on LaRoche strengthening the team's bench, especially if it limits Lowell's petrification in the field.


Dumb. Laws of physics being what they are - all hitters hit better in warmer weather.


QUOTE (JulE6 @ Jul 22 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Argenis Diaz? Are you kidding me, Theo? Absolutely indefensible move. Adam LaRoche is not the kind of player you deal a potential MLB starting SS for.


Dumber. He's 22 and hitting .250 for the Sea Dogs right now with no pop. If all the stars align perfectly, and some teammate injects him with B12, the guy's upside is Calvin Reese Jr.

Edited by Trautwein's Degree, 22 July 2009 - 12:20 PM.


#119 opes


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:20 PM

QUOTE (SeanBerry @ Jul 22 2009, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You people crack me up sometimes.

We go out and get a pretty damn good player who provides very important depth (important because our thrid baseman runs like Charlie Hough and has the same hip) and people are upset?

I really don't get it.

Is there a Yeiper Fan Club I am unaware of or did LaRoche rape a baby or something? He's 29, has had an OPS+ every year he's been in the league, is a very good 2nd half player and has playoff expierence.

I'm pretty fucking pumped about this. Now we don't need to worry about our third baseman needing a wheelchair in the playoffs.



I agree with your points, but LaRoche is not the saviour we need. I agree with the guys saying he would be a good platoon player, but if thats the case, I dont see how we gain any wins with limited playing time. Sure, he will be handy if Lowell dies, but this is hardly a season changing trade.
In conclusion, its a pointless move since he is moving to the more difficult AL, and hits noticeably less against lefties.

#120 dcmissle


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:21 PM

This is entirely in keeping with how the Sox conduct their in-season business, provided a key player doesn't sulk (Nomar) or shoot (Manny) his way out of town. If this is the beginning and end of their dealings, nobody can be much surprised.

#121 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:22 PM

QUOTE
1:18 p.m.: It is independently confirmed that it is Diaz and Strickland, thanks to the miracle of text messaging. Still no official announcement from the Pirates.
http://community.pos...bc/default.aspx

#122 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:25 PM

QUOTE
LaRoche deal close
Permalink|Comments (0) Posted by Amalie Benjamin, Globe Staff July 22, 2009 01:20 PM

ARLINGTON, Texas -- The Sox are "close" to completing the deal for Pittsburgh's Adam LaRoche, a team source confirmed.

The deal, first reported by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, would send Portland shortstop Argenis Diaz and Greenville pitcher Hunter Strickland to Pittsburgh.

More to come.

http://www.boston.co...he_deal_cl.html

#123 Robinson Checo

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:25 PM

Not surprised at all. I called this in the 1B/3B thread and in the Pirates thread in the adopt-a-team forum. LaRoche is adequate at first and has a great attitude. He will fit in well with the club and his left-handed bat and fly ball tendencies will play well at Fenway and new Yankee stadium.

I am surprised left handed reliever John Grabow is not in the deal. I think that he would probable cost a MDC. Jack Wilson and Freedy Sanchez are on the block, but the Bucs need middle infielders to replace them. Wilson is also out with a slight hammy injury.

#124 mikeford


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:27 PM

QUOTE (Mystic Merlin @ Jul 22 2009, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Huh? On what planet was Argenis Diaz tabbed as anything more than a future reserve, if he makes it at all?

He can't hit. Period. And he's not even the highest ranked SS in the Sox system (Navarro).

EDIT - If you're kidding, then touche.

Casey Kelly is pissed laugh.gif

#125 DieHardSoxFan1


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:28 PM

Any move that keeps Mike Lowell off the field is a good move. That said, this move better be about depth and nothing more. LaRoche can get the job done against righties, but this lineup needs a far bigger boost.

#126 bowiac


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:29 PM

QUOTE (opes @ Jul 22 2009, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree with your points, but LaRoche is not the saviour we need.


Fortunate that the Red Sox don't need a savior then. They're one of the best teams in baseball, currently in line for a playoff spot, and don't have a particularly grueling schedule coming up.

LaRoche is a good player, who may have been unlucky on balls in play this year, (PrOPS of .269/.348/.452). He plays a position that helps the team, and plays it decently and platoons well with a player who needs a bunch of rest. We gave up nothing to get him.

#127 Foulkey Reese


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:29 PM

I can't get any of the hit charts to load at work, is LaRoche somebody who will be able to use the monster to his advantage?

Thanks.


#128 Trautwein's Degree


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:30 PM

Bill Simmons' take from Twitter:

QUOTE
@sportsguy33 Psyched for the LaRoche era! We needed another boring white .250 hitter who bleeds pitch counts & takes called 3rd strikes with runners on.

Edited by Trautwein's Degree, 22 July 2009 - 12:30 PM.


#129 MartyBarrettMVP

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:33 PM

So if and when LaRoche comes here, who goes?

#130 Guest_Corsi Combover_*

Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:33 PM

QUOTE (Trautwein's Degree @ Jul 22 2009, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The absolute last person I'm looking to for insight on a baseball-related move.

#131 BoSox Rule

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:34 PM

QUOTE (Trautwein's Degree @ Jul 22 2009, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's worse than the random fans you see when you type in #Redsox

#132 CreightonGubanich

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:35 PM

I'm fairly ambivalent about this trade. There's little question that his acquisition improves the team, without giving up much of anything. In the abstract, it's a good trade. I think some of the dissenters are concerned more with the fact that LaRoche will be occupying a roster spot than anything else. It appears we now have our full complement of corner infielders for the stretch run, as I cannot imagine any of those three guys being moved. That's fine, and LaRoche is certainly better than Kotsay. But if you think that the team's offense as currently constructed isn't good enough, Adam LaRoche is not going to do much to change your mind. And any hope, however slim it may be, for a middle-of-the-order corner infield bat (Martinez, Gonzalez, etc.) is pretty much gone.

Certainly, a lot can happen between now and the deadline, or even up until August 31st. But to me, the LaRoche trade makes any major shakeup of the offense very unlikely - the best opportunity to do that was a trade for a corner IF who would replace Mark Kotsay. I suppose they could still trade Lowell to make that move, but if that was going to be that case, wouldn't you want Kotsay's versatility in a backup role rather than LaRoche's offense?

I'm not at all surprised by the move, as I never expected much else. And really, the difference between LaRoche and, say, Huff or Johnson really isn't much at all. I think the offense is "good enough" now that the Sox have some insurance for Lowell. But for those who disagree, I can see why this move is such a disappointment.

#133 Trlicek's Whip

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:35 PM

QUOTE (ngruz25 @ Jul 22 2009, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is the fear that Tito will keep playing Lowell regardless of the LaRoche acquisition.

I hope Tito remembers mentioning this during the Natstown series in June:
QUOTE
..."I should have probably sat him a few times. I didn't and I need to do better in that area."

One month, one DL-stint and one immediately scheduled rest against TOR later, with the LaRoche trade I hope Tito/Lowell can be eased into a new way of thinking (more rest, a platoon) without ruffling feathers. Tito had to do it with sliding Ortiz in the lineup earlier this year so there's precedent.



#134 templeUsox


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:36 PM

QUOTE (Trautwein's Degree @ Jul 22 2009, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's some insightful analysis from someone who ESPN doesn't even allow to write about baseball anymore.

#135 Joshv02

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:38 PM

Not only is Diaz not very good, they also optioned him in 08 and 09 leaving him with one chance to make the majors for good.

#136 sibpin

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:38 PM

Corresponding roster move to me would have to be deleting a reliever. With Van Every out for the season, Kotsay seems to be better than every option in AAA as a defensive outfielder, so you wouldn't want to lose him.

#137 Trautwein's Degree


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:39 PM

QUOTE (Corsi Combover @ Jul 22 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The absolute last person I'm looking to for insight on a baseball-related move.


Sorry, I must have missed the memo that all Red Sox "insight" be unfunny and full of things like UZR and WARP3.

Edited by Trautwein's Degree, 22 July 2009 - 12:39 PM.


#138 mikeford


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:39 PM

QUOTE (Foulkey Reese @ Jul 22 2009, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't get any of the hit charts to load at work, is LaRoche somebody who will be able to use the monster to his advantage?

Thanks.

Nope

#139 BosRedSox5


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:40 PM

Considering how weak the SS position is on the big league team you hate to see us give up a guy like Diaz who might start some day (he's struggling this season but he's 22 and has hit decently in the past.) All things considered though, who cares?

I would have rather had Victor Martinez or Adrian Gonzalez but the cost involved in getting LaRoche was virtually nil. We would have had to give up more to get Nick Johnson... and ESPN brings up a good point. LaRoche has torn up the second half the last few years. LaRoche is coming to a better park for hitters, has a former teammate on the Sox and he's hit .314/.374/.578 for the last 3 years after the break. Not only that, but he's playing for a contract AND the playoffs.

It's usually my nature to try and immediately find the good in something, but I don't think I'm crazy for liking this move.

The offense still isn't great but someone like LaRoche can contribute a little, and shake things up. Lowell and Papi will stay more rested this season and that can only help the offense. Getting an MLB quality rental for a couple fringe guys is a nice deal.

#140 Mystic Merlin


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:41 PM

QUOTE (Trautwein's Degree @ Jul 22 2009, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry, I must have missed the memo that all Red Sox "insight" be unfunny and full of things like UZR and WARP3. H


But it wasn't funny. The 'corn bread Red Sox' is a Simmons crutch...he doesn't actually follow the team remotely close enough to formulate any fresh, topical humor.

We've heard that line a thousand times.

#141 Country Sinker

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:43 PM

QUOTE (MartyBarrettMVP @ Jul 22 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So if and when LaRoche comes here, who goes?


According to WEEI's Alex Speier, the Pirates will receive shortstop Argenis Diaz and right-hander Hunter Strickland from the Red Sox for Adam LaRoche.

Diaz, a 22-year-old Venezuelan, was batting .253/.309/.310 with no home runs, 24 RBI and seven stolen bases this season for Double-A Portland. He has a great glove, but may never be a good enough hitter to land a starting gig in the majors. Strickland, 20, was 5-4 with a 3.35 ERA and a 51/13 K/BB ratio for Single-A Greenville. It's a nice inpouring of youth for the Pirates, but we're definitely not dealing with top prospects here

#142 templeUsox


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:44 PM

QUOTE (BosRedSox5 @ Jul 22 2009, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Considering how weak the SS position is on the big league team you hate to see us give up a guy like Diaz who might start some day (he's struggling this season but he's 22 and has hit decently in the past.) All things considered though, who cares?
FWIW, he's going to be replaced in Portland by a SS who is already a better prospect than him.


#143 Harry Hooper


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:44 PM

QUOTE (Foulkey Reese @ Jul 22 2009, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't get any of the hit charts to load at work, is LaRoche somebody who will be able to use the monster to his advantage?

Thanks.



A good portion of his fly ball outs seem to be to LF, but virtually all his XBH are to CF and RF.

#144 86spike


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:45 PM

I'm down with this move if it removes Kotsay from the back-up 1Bman job (which I can only assume it does).

I'd love to see Tito put Lowell/LaRoche into a straight platoon for lefties and righties. Lowell clearly cannot play effectively every day with his hip. Time for Tito to 'put him in a position to succeed' and limit his at-bats.

I'm satisfied with this as a fix to the Lowell-Everyday problem. It's not going to turn our lineup into a dynamo, but that's not the point of the move. (by the way, getting Bay and Drew out of their slumps is what it's going to take for that to happen and a trade is unlikely to accomplish that on its own)

I like it.

#145 Lose Remerswaal


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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:47 PM

QUOTE (BosRedSox5 @ Jul 22 2009, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Considering how weak the SS position is on the big league team you hate to see us give up a guy like Diaz who might start some day (he's struggling this season but he's 22 and has hit decently in the past.) All things considered though, who cares?
Have you read the thread? The chances of him starting for the Sox at the Major League level are . . . remote.

I'll eat TRic's hat if he ever is above replacement value on a Major League team.


#146 ctsoxfan5

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:47 PM

I don't see what there is to complain about. They picked up a 29 year old with a career .824 OPS who hits 20-30 HR per season (and is even better against RHP). He's likely going to platoon with Lowell, and they didn't give up much to get him. How is this a bad thing?

#147 Robinson Checo

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:47 PM

Solid trade for the Sox. LaRoche is a second half guy and I think being around former teammate Bay and in a playoff hunt will energize him. It did not cost the Sox anything whereas Gonzalez or even Nick "Pvt Pyle" Johnson were going to cost the Sox arms. Good move. I like it.

#148 MartyBarrettMVP

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:49 PM

QUOTE (Country Sinker @ Jul 22 2009, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
According to WEEI's Alex Speier, the Pirates will receive shortstop Argenis Diaz and right-hander Hunter Strickland from the Red Sox for Adam LaRoche.

Diaz, a 22-year-old Venezuelan, was batting .253/.309/.310 with no home runs, 24 RBI and seven stolen bases this season for Double-A Portland. He has a great glove, but may never be a good enough hitter to land a starting gig in the majors. Strickland, 20, was 5-4 with a 3.35 ERA and a 51/13 K/BB ratio for Single-A Greenville. It's a nice inpouring of youth for the Pirates, but we're definitely not dealing with top prospects here


No I meant, who from the 25-man roster goes....Buchholz, Masterson, and Bard are the only ones with options left.

#149 GreyisGone

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:50 PM

QUOTE (MartyBarrettMVP @ Jul 22 2009, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No I meant, who from the 25-man roster goes....Buchholz, Masterson, and Bard are the only ones with options left.

Kotsay would seem the obvious choice unless someone is Dled.

#150 Laser Show

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:51 PM

I've really warmed up to this move. A bat that traditionally heats up in the 2nd half, provides Lowell insurance, who has the possibility to hit even better now that he's actually playing for a contender? For basically nothing? Good trade. I'd prefer someone like a Victor Martinez, obviously, but I should get my head of the clouds - that's not happening.