650 replies to this topic

[Foulkey Reese]

Just throwing it out there.

Rosenthal

Let the Roy Halladay sweepstakes begin.

"We have to see what's out there," Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi says. "I'm not saying we're going to shop him. But if something makes sense, we at least have to listen. We're (leaning) more toward listening than we've ever been."

Yankees. The Jays will not hesitate to dangle Halladay to the Yankees and Red Sox, who will be perhaps their two most fervent suitors. A's GM Billy Beane never rules out trading within his division. Ricciardi, Beane's former assistant, probably would not, either.

Red Sox. Where the Yankees sniff, the Red Sox follow. No doubt the Sox could put together a stunning package for Halladay, starting with right-hander Clay Buchholz. They then would control Halladay and right-hander Josh Beckett through 2010 and lefty Jon Lester through '14. Wow.

Then again, the Red Sox could determine that their greater need is a hitter, and Indians catcher Victor Martinez still looms as an ideal option. The Indians would want Buchholz plus other prospects, but their price for Martinez would not be as steep as the Jays' price for Halladay.

Martinez, under club control through 2010, could play first base if the Red Sox needed Kevin Youkilis at third to replace Mike Lowell. He also could catch if Jason Varitek dropped off in the second half and spell David Ortiz at DH.

[Talon]

I've never seen Martinez play 1B. Is he at all competent there?

He's not bad. However you must understand that V-Mart only has 102 appearances (89 starts) out of 775 (739 starts) in his career. He's not bad there (.993 career fielding %) but he's just not ever been anything more than a 1 or 2 times a week 1st baseman.

[dcmissle]

Just throwing it out there.

Rosenthal

Justifiably, as J.P. either was drunk or deliberately opening the bidding; as the article notes there are very sound reasons for the Blue Jays to go in this direction.

I'm sorry, but a healthy Halladay to the Yanks would be a game changer.

[Talon]

RE: Halladay I know it'd be a spectacular thing to pull off given that Doc is an ace however I can't see Theo making a deal involving a large package of legit prospects within the division.

The other problem is The Jays will ask for a package likely beginning with Buchholz & Lars and there's no way I can see Theo & Co signing off on that.

[koufax32]

RE: Halladay I know it'd be a spectacular thing to pull off given that Doc is an ace however I can't see Theo making a deal involving a large package of legit prospects within the division.

The other problem is The Jays will ask for a package likely beginning with Buchholz & Lars and there's no way I can see Theo & Co signing off on that.

Buchholz and Lars for the 2nd best pitcher in the game (behind Lincecum)? Where do I sign? After next season you try to sign both he and Beckett. If one leaves you sign the other and collect your two draft picks. Now, it may take another two good prospects to get an Escobar or Martinez. But I really don't mind partially emptying the cupboard for that level of talent in return.

Edited by koufax32, 07 July 2009 - 09:46 AM.

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

At first glance I would say that Halladay is a Luxury not a need and that the sox would be going overboard by giving up young talent to aquire him....

But on second thought a trade of say I am an Idiot, Kalish, Cabrera + for Halladay would probably equal 2 rings. It would also protect from the Yankees getting him. I'm not sure that the MFY have enough unless they would want to give up Joba and Hughes....

I would prefer that Halladay goes to the Mets (not like they have the pieces to get him either) and I think it would be a smart move for Minaya to make although they deperately need a bat. A one two punch of Halladay and Santana would be the best by far in baseball and would make them extremely dangerous in a short series.

I would still imagine though that Halladay stays in Toronto unless a team (like the sox) Mortgages the farm.

You really have to think about how many years the sox have left to go for a Chapionship with the Vets they have Lowell , Papi , Wake, Drew. They will always compete, but the sox are built to win now and compete later. IE. Championship contender now, Playoff team later.

I know Theo has built this team to contend for the next decade and he has done well, but a lot of young talent has to pan out in the future 2011 etc. or more money has to be spent on FA's to be WS favorites after this year.

Do you go for the sure thing (as sure a thing as you'll find) or do you try and be a playoff team for the next decade?

CET

[86spike]

Halladay would be incredibly incredibly tempting. He would also be incredibly damaging to the Sox playoff hopes if he landed in NY.

I agree with Talon that the biggest risk in acquiring him would be sending Toronto a load of great prospects (Clay + Lars + more) who would then haunt the Sox for years to come in the AL East.

If he's really on the block... this is a huge conundrum.

[sachilles]

I think the Jays management have taken a page form the Boras play book. If they were to trade off Halladay, most would consider the rest of the AL east an unlikely trading partner. Considering the RS and MFY have the biggest wallets, you have to at least include them on the surface of the trade discussion to boost his value.

[glennhoffmania]

I didn't realize that he's almost a 10/5 guy. Cots has him at 9+ years. So JP may have to deal him now or hold onto him through the end of 2010.

[Philip Jeff Frye]

I agree with Talon that the biggest risk in acquiring him would be sending Toronto a load of great prospects (Clay + Lars + more) who would then haunt the Sox for years to come in the AL East.

Is Anderson even our top bait as far as hitters go any more? Wouldn't it be "Clay + Reddick + more"?

Personally, I'd do something like that in a heart beat. How many here were worried about Pavano + Armas as being too much for Pedro? Hanley Ramirez was a huge price to pay for Josh Beckett, but I don't regret that for a second.

[SeoulSoxFan]

Halladay would be incredibly incredibly tempting. He would also be incredibly damaging to the Sox playoff hopes if he landed in NY.

I agree with Talon that the biggest risk in acquiring him would be sending Toronto a load of great prospects (Clay + Lars + more) who would then haunt the Sox for years to come in the AL East.

If he's really on the block... this is a huge conundrum.

I doubt Riccardi pulls the trigger on Buch + Lars, plus 2nd tier prospect. He may be tempted with Buch + Bowden + Lars. However, Theo didn't pull the trigger on Santana - why would he empty the top pitching talent for Halladay, as (indeed) tempting it may be?

Of course the easy answer is to get a clear jump on the Yankees and Rays with now 3 legitimate aces on the staff with Beckett, Lester, and Halladay, but wouldn't that have been the same case with Santana (even with shoulder concerns)?

[kiransdad]

Roy Halladay has had a couple of rough outings coming back from the groin strain, struggling with pitch command and surrendering 4 home runs to TB and the MFY, likely due to his decreased ability to trust his right leg to push off of (as well as being "rusty" from a 3 week layoff).

Granted, if anybody can make the necessary adjustments it is Halladay, but right now he may not be able to provide his best, perhaps for a large portion of the remainder of the season with what can be a lingering issue, particularly with regard to ability to keep balls down in the zone.

Its an important consideration if you are relying on him to be dominant for the remainder of this season.

[Bowlerman9]

I didn't realize that he's almost a 10/5 guy. Cots has him at 9+ years. So JP may have to deal him now or hold onto him through the end of 2010.

I cant see Halladay stopping a trade to a contending team considering Toronto has about zero chance of competing over the next few years. The only thing the 10/5 rights would do is give him the right to demand an extension, which would seem reasonable considering any acquiring team would give up a ton of talent for him anyways.

[glennhoffmania]

I cant see Halladay stopping a trade to a contending team considering Toronto has about zero chance of competing over the next few years. The only thing the 10/5 rights would do is give him the right to demand an extension, which would seem reasonable considering any acquiring team would give up a ton of talent for him anyways.

Right, or he pulls a Peavy and decides there are certain places he just doesn't want to go. But either way, it obviously makes it tougher on JP next year to some extent.

[dynomite]

I didn't realize that he's almost a 10/5 guy. Cots has him at 9+ years. So JP may have to deal him now or hold onto him through the end of 2010.

I would think he'd be willing to leave -- he's only been on one team that finished above 3rd place, the 87 win 2006 Blue Jays. And they were still 7 games out of the wild card.

It makes it a little tougher on JP if he's 10/5, but it always seemed to me that Doc would be willing to play for anyone that gave him a shot at the playoffs.

[dcmissle]

Halladay would be incredibly incredibly tempting. He would also be incredibly damaging to the Sox playoff hopes if he landed in NY.

I agree with Talon that the biggest risk in acquiring him would be sending Toronto a load of great prospects (Clay + Lars + more) who would then haunt the Sox for years to come in the AL East.

If he's really on the block... this is a huge conundrum.

There will be no "conundrum" talk in NY -- if Doc checked out medically, they would empty the vault of prospects while trying to save Joba and wouldn't look back. They would be right, and this is not something an acquisition of Victor would likely balance.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Wouldn't Ricciardi be able to get more for Halladay in the off-season, when more teams would be involved in the bidding (more teams competing, flexible with payroll, ability to sell tickets based on a Halladay move) and also when it would be easier to work out an extension?

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

There will be no "conundrum" talk in NY -- if Doc checked out medically, they would empty the vault of prospects while trying to save Joba and wouldn't look back. They would be right, and this is not something an acquisition of Victor would likely balance.

Unless they're willing to deal Hughes, I'm not sure they have the necessary chips to acquire Halladay. Then again teams aren't exactly rational when trading with the Yankees (witness the Pirates picking up half of Hinske's salary in that deal a couple of weeks ago.)

[Trautwein's Degree]

Unless they're willing to deal Hughes, I'm not sure they have the necessary chips to acquire Halladay. Then again teams aren't exactly rational when trading with the Yankees (witness the Pirates picking up half of Hinske's salary in that deal a couple of weeks ago.)

If you're the Yankees don't you deal Hughes for Halladay? I would in a heartbeat.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

If you're the Yankees don't you deal Hughes for Halladay? I would in a heartbeat.

I would as well. But would the Yankees? And are the Jays smart enough to hold out for such a return?

[PrometheusWakefield]

FWIW, the 2002 Colon trade included only one prospect ranked in the preseason BBA top 100 prospects list, Brandon Phillips, who was ranked #20. In 2003, Cliff Lee ranked #30 and Phillips ranked #7, Grady Sizemore was unranked until 2004 when he was #9. So a package that contained Buchholz (#4 in 2008), Lars (#17) and another prospect off the top 100 (not Bowden or Bard) would be arguably better than the package the Indians got for Colon, depending on one's interpertation of Buchholz' value compared to where it was preseason 2008. A set that included Bowden, either Buchholz or Lars, and another prospect off the top 100 might be comparable to the Colon package. I think that is more likely than a trade that included both Lars and Buchholz.

Of course, any comparison to that trade needs to emphasize that the move was an absolutely awful trade for the Expos that deserves to be rannked among the worst trades of all time. Halladay is unquestionably better than Colon in 2002, and in much better shape physicially, but he's also four years older. How sure are we about Halladay's ability to pitch at the same level into his mid-30s?

EDIT: In other words, I think this:

He may be tempted with Buch + Bowden + Lars.

is way too much.

Edited by PrometheusWakefield, 07 July 2009 - 10:50 AM.

[dcmissle]

I would as well. But would the Yankees? And are the Jays smart enough to hold out for such a return?

You'd think the answer to both questions would be a resounding "yes." But this underscores that if Halladay is, in fact, being dangled, as with Santana, the Sox likely will have no choice but to become involved if only to keep this honest.

[koufax32]

If you're the Yankees don't you deal Hughes for Halladay? I would in a heartbeat.

Must...resist...urge....mocking...nyyfans....fight it...

As much as we may question some of the things Ricciardi has done in TOR he's no retard like the special needs folks on board the good ship Pirates. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't most of the Yankees' mL talent in the lower levels? That doesn't seem to jive with what Ricciardi could expect in return.

Aside from a certain poster at a certain site taking his own life if a deal like this happened (for NY) I agree that Cashman wouldn't blink an eye at trading Hughes in order to get Halliday. It would allow them to shift JtC back into the pen too. So the present day opportunity cost of losing Hughes would be mitigated.

EDIT: misspelled Ricciardi!

Edited by koufax32, 07 July 2009 - 10:57 AM.

[Robinson Checo]

The Yankees would have to give up Hughes and Montero to start with- I could see Austin Jackson as a part of that package as well.

[amfox1]

Unless they're willing to deal Hughes, I'm not sure they have the necessary chips to acquire Halladay. Then again teams aren't exactly rational when trading with the Yankees (witness the Pirates picking up half of Hinske's salary in that deal a couple of weeks ago.)

I think that's correct. Halladay is a three B+ or better prospect deal.

Would think the top two (with potential packages) are

Hankees (Hughes, Romine/Montero, Melancon)

Phillies (Taylor/Brown, Drabek/Knapp, Marson)

While I love him, I don't see the Red Sox getting involved. If they did, it would likely take Bowden, Masterson and Anderson (I am assuming Buchholz does not get traded in any deal). BTW, I make that deal in a nanosecond. Beckett, Halladay and Lester as your three playoff starters, with Papelbon, Smoltz and Penny coming out of the pen? Sign me up.

I don't see the Brewers ponying up Gamel or Escobar or the Dodgers willing to trade Billingsley or Broxton, and the Rangers cannot take on the salary.

[koufax32]

Something else to think about...

A potential trade for Halliday would allow the Sox to trade Penny as well. He could be used to acquire a missing piece for TOR or to suppliment a loss in the Sox system.

[sachilles]

Something like that makes the log jam for Buchholz even worse.
You would have in 09 and going into 2010
Beckett
Lester
Halladay
Dice-k
Wakefield
Buchholz
I don't see Buchholz waiting in the wings again in 2010, which means you move Wake or Dice-k somehow or go with the mythical 6 man rotation.

I think if you can get Halladay, giving up Buchholz is not the end of the world.
Halladay is an ACE that eats up innings. Buchholz is still a bit of a mystery at the MLB level. As long as you can lock up Halladay for additional time, it is worth it.

[absintheofmalaise]

Something like that makes the log jam for Buchholz even worse.
You would have in 09 and going into 2010
Beckett
Lester
Halladay
Dice-k
Wakefield
Buchholz
I don't see Buchholz waiting in the wings again in 2010, which means you move Wake or Dice-k somehow or go with the mythical 6 man rotation.

I think if you can get Halladay, giving up Buchholz is not the end of the world.
Halladay is an ACE that eats up innings. Buchholz is still a bit of a mystery at the MLB level. As long as you can lock up Halladay for additional time, it is worth it.

Matsuzaka has a no-trade and all the Sox would need to do is not pick up the option on Wakefield's contract. I really don't see how it's that big of a problem. Wakefield has to retire sometime, forced or on his own.

[TheYellowDart5]

Something like that makes the log jam for Buchholz even worse.
You would have in 09 and going into 2010
Beckett
Lester
Halladay
Dice-k
Wakefield
Buchholz
I don't see Buchholz waiting in the wings again in 2010, which means you move Wake or Dice-k somehow or go with the mythical 6 man rotation.

I think if you can get Halladay, giving up Buchholz is not the end of the world.
Halladay is an ACE that eats up innings. Buchholz is still a bit of a mystery at the MLB level. As long as you can lock up Halladay for additional time, it is worth it.

There's a less-than-zero chance that any trade for Halladay leaves Buchholz as a member of the Boston Red Sox. He'd be target No. 1 with a bullet for Riccardi in any trade proposal.

[sachilles]

There's a less-than-zero chance that any trade for Halladay leaves Buchholz as a member of the Boston Red Sox. He'd be target No. 1 with a bullet for Riccardi in any trade proposal.

That was my point. You can trade Buchholz and still be in good shape for 2010.

I doubt you'd see the RS fail to pick up Wake's option for next year, and I doubt he retires barring injury.

[mfried]

Matsuzaka has a no-trade and all the Sox would need to do is not pick up the option on Wakefield's contract. I really don't see how it's that big of a problem. Wakefield has to retire sometime, forced or on his own.

It seems improbable to drop Wakefield the gear after his first entry onto the All-Star team unless he has a disastrous second half. Bowden, Bard and Reddick for Halliday!!

[absintheofmalaise]

It seems improbable to drop Wakefield the gear after his first entry onto the All-Star team unless he has a disastrous second half. Bowden, Bard and Reddick for Halliday!!

True. And he is so deserving too.

[opes]

Lopez sounds like a good idea, but who do we trade for him? Would Bowden+Reddick get the job done?

I think that might be too much. They have Augy Ojeda to fill 2b, which is also a fan favorite. So they wouldnt need a 2b. What they do need is a 1b better than Tracy. I would suspect what would happen is they trade for prospects, as their team is going no where this season.

[PrometheusWakefield]

Something like that makes the log jam for Buchholz even worse.
You would have in 09 and going into 2010
Beckett
Lester
Halladay
Dice-k
Wakefield
Buchholz
I don't see Buchholz waiting in the wings again in 2010, which means you move Wake or Dice-k somehow or go with the mythical 6 man rotation.

I think if you can get Halladay, giving up Buchholz is not the end of the world.
Halladay is an ACE that eats up innings. Buchholz is still a bit of a mystery at the MLB level. As long as you can lock up Halladay for additional time, it is worth it.

...and lets not forget that Masterson is currently being underutilized in the bullpen, Bowden could easily be ready by 2010, and Tazawa may not be far behind. It's an embarrassment of riches, and in that context, trading three dimes for a quarter makes a lot of sense. The only real downside to a trade built around Buchholz and Bowden is if Buchholz 25-30 turns out to be a better pitcher than Halladay 33-38. Which btw is completely possible.

[86spike]

The only real downside to a trade built around Buchholz and Bowden is if Buchholz 25-30 turns out to be a better pitcher than Halladay 33-38. Which btw is completely possible.

and again... that downside would find Buchholz pitching for a division rival. You're not shipping him to Montreal like they did with Pavano for Pedro.

Edited by 86spike, 07 July 2009 - 12:08 PM.

[BoSoxFink]

...and lets not forget that Masterson is currently being underutilized in the bullpen, Bowden could easily be ready by 2010, and Tazawa may not be far behind. It's an embarrassment of riches, and in that context, trading three dimes for a quarter makes a lot of sense. The only real downside to a trade built around Buchholz and Bowden is if Buchholz 25-30 turns out to be a better pitcher than Halladay 33-38. Which btw is completely possible.

How much of a downside is this really though? He is just as likely never to be as good as Halladay is in the next 5 years. You take this risk everytime you trade away a big time prospect. At least you know what you are going to be getting from Halladay for the next 5 years, with Buchholz you really don't. I believe a rotation of Beckett, Lester, Halladay is way too good to pass up. This will have the Red Sox the favorites to win the series every season that these three are members of the rotation, depending on them re-signing Beckett and Halladay past 2010.

[PedroKsBambino]

I'm not sure why we'd think Theo would worry about that. I know why we'd worry about endless columns about it, but if Theo projects Buchholz to be the better pitcher then the doesn't make the deal. And if he projects Halladay to be better he makes the deal. If he thinks the latter but the former happens, he says 'we were wrong' and moves on.

I honestly think the amount of time the Red Sox FO spends worrying about this stuff is about .00001% what people ascribe to them. I just don't think they sit around worrying about 'playing well for a division rival' and I don't think they should, either.

[SoxFanSince57]

If Ricciardi is shopping Halladay, then it seems to me that he would at least start with a demand for Buchholz and Masterson and then ask for one prospect (OF or another P). I just can't see any GM not demanding major-league ready/tested talent. If I were in Theo's shoes I would be willing to offer a package of Buchholz, Masterson and Hagadone/Reddick.

If the Jays are looking to blow it up then I think they will also test the market for Scutaro/McDonald and Millar/Overbay with the Sox.

Edited by SoxFanSince57, 07 July 2009 - 12:44 PM.

[E5 Yaz]

If the "embarassment of riches" for the Red Sox is in their pitching pipeline, then using those prime trading chips for another pitcher -- even one such as Halladay -- seems counter-productive.

The immediate need is the left side of the infield, where no such pipeline apparently exists, and long-term behind the plate. It's the offense that needs a jolt and, as has been pointed out elsewhere, Lowell and even Lowrie are not sure-fixes upon their return.

The Halladay talk, while amusing to contemplate, avoids the larger issues.

[brimac]

The Halladay talk, while amusing to contemplate, avoids the larger issues.

Except that the more aces you have, the less you need a shortstop who can hit .300 or hit 20 home runs. When Halladay pitches and you're able to trot out a lineup that includes Drew, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ortiz and Bay, you should be OK most of the time.

[SoxFanSince57]

If the "embarassment of riches" for the Red Sox is in their pitching pipeline, then using those prime trading chips for another pitcher -- even one such as Halladay -- seems counter-productive.

The immediate need is the left side of the infield, where no such pipeline apparently exists, and long-term behind the plate. It's the offense that needs a jolt and, as has been pointed out elsewhere, Lowell and even Lowrie are not sure-fixes upon their return.

The Halladay talk, while amusing to contemplate, avoids the larger issues.

I totally agree with you in terms of the "Sox' needs", but Halladay is such a difference maker, getting him OR losing him could make all other moves moot. If one could take the MFY or Rays out of the equation then we could simply let Ricciardi pass him on to the highest bidder.

[E5 Yaz]

Except that the more aces you have, the less you need a shortstop who can hit .300 or hit 20 home runs. When Halladay pitches and you're able to trot out a lineup that includes Drew, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ortiz and Bay, you should be OK most of the time.

To me, that's short-sighted. They've been trotting out that lineup for Beckett and Lester, and it hasn't produced consistently.

I guess I'd rather look a year or two down the road and see that 3B, SS and C (at least) are going to be major problems without apparent solutions coming through the system. (Or 1B, if you keep Youk at third permanently.) If you're going to trade some of your top-level chips, fix the problems that need fixing.

[BoSoxFink]

I totally agree with you in terms of the "Sox' needs", but Halladay is such a difference maker, getting him OR losing him could make all other moves moot. If one could take the MFY or Rays out of the equation then we could simply let Ricciardi pass him on to the highest bidder.

While everyone can agree the Sox major need is another big time run producing bat. I have to agree with the people who say that getting Halladay makes the need for a bat that much less. If you can trot out 3 pitchers the caliber of Beckett, Lester and Halladay then the lineup the Sox have right now should be work just fine. Let us not forget that Halladay is probably at this point in time possibly a top 5 pitcher in all of baseball.

[jtn46]

I don't think the Yankees really have the pieces either. Considering Vernon Wells and Alex Rios are stuck in that outfield for a long time and they have Lind and Snider on the way, I doubt they'll really have any interest in outfielders. They're losing their C (Barajas) and SS (Scutaro) after this season, and their 1B (Overbay) and 3B (Rolen) after next year, so Riccardi will likely be looking for one of baseball's top C or SS prospects, and if he can't get that, he'll move onto the best corner infield bat he can find.

If Halladay is at no risk of ending up in the division, Theo should probably just pass. Sox need a bat.

[PrometheusWakefield]

At least you know what you are going to be getting from Halladay for the next 5 years,

That's the thing though, I think we all have a tendency to exaggerate the degree to which we actually know what we get with a pitcher like Halladay. Here's the top 10 comparable pitchers to Halladay through age 31 according to baseball reference, with their IPs and ERAs for their age 33-38 years:
1. Tim Hudson (hasn't gotten to 33 yet)
2. Don Newcombe 2 seasons, 356 IP 108 ERA+
3. Mike Mussina 1324 IP 111 ERA+
4. Dennis Leonard 1 season, 194 IP 94 ERA+
5. John Candelaria 1538 109 ERA+
6. Ramon Martinez 1 season 15 IP
7. Jack McDowell 1 season 19 IP
8. Kevin Millwood 1+ seasons, 292 IP 102 ERA+
9. Scott McGregor 2 seasons, 102 IP 61 ERA+
10. Andy Pettitte 959 IP, 114 ERA+
Quite a few solid careers into their 30s, but quite a few flameouts, and nobody performed as well has Halladay has for his 5 seasons between the ages of 28 and 32 (949 IP, 145 ERA+). So five years from now, it is entirely possible that we would look back on a Buchholz for Halladay trade the same way we would today think about a 2002 trade of Halladay for Mussina - or worse.

I like Halladay a lot. He didn't get worked a lot when he was young, and from my untrained eye he looks like a guy who will age more like Clemens than like Pedro (...although we'll never know how well Clemens would have aged without PEDs). But all pitchers past the age of 32 are a risk.

[j44thor]

I totally agree with you in terms of the "Sox' needs", but Halladay is such a difference maker, getting him OR losing him could make all other moves moot. If one could take the MFY or Rays out of the equation then we could simply let Ricciardi pass him on to the highest bidder.

I've got to assume that is the most likely outcome as just like Sox fans would hate to see Buchholz in Toronto, it would be a nightmare for JP to see Halladay bring a ring or two to Boston.

Plus doesn't JP usually ask for a kings ransom in any significant deal within the division?
I remember the Sox balking at his asking price for Kelvim Escobar despite TOR going nowhere that season.

[E5 Yaz]

I've got to assume that is the most likely outcome as just like Sox fans would hate to see Buchholz in Toronto, it would be a nightmare for JP to see Halladay bring a ring or two to Boston.

Plus doesn't JP usually ask for a kings ransom in any significant deal within the division?
I remember the Sox balking at his asking price for Kelvim Escobar despite TOR going nowhere that season.

Rosenthal cites Riccardi's work with Beane as being a reason to suggest that Halladay could be traded within the division.

The Jays will not hesitate to dangle Halladay to the Yankees and Red Sox, who will be perhaps their two most fervent suitors. A's GM Billy Beane never rules out trading within his division. Ricciardi, Beane's former assistant, probably would not, either.

But here's the thing. Beane in recent years has traded four pitchers who have been All-Stars -- Mulder, Hudson, Haren and Street -- plus another serviceable starter (Blanton). Not only did Beane trade them out of the division ... he traded them out of the American League.

Perhaps Beane would have taken a return from the Angels or Rangers (or Sox or Yankees) had it been better than what he got. But that's a pattern that suggests Rosenthal's theory doesn't hold water. If Riccardi does follow Beane's example, a trade within the AL East seems a longshot at best.

[BoSoxFink]

Rosenthal cites Riccardi's work with Beane as being a reason to suggest that Halladay could be traded within the division.



But here's the thing. Beane in recent years has traded four pitchers who have been All-Stars -- Mulder, Hudson, Haren and Street -- plus another serviceable starter (Blanton). Not only did Beane trade them out of the division ... he traded them out of the American League.

Perhaps Beane would have taken a return from the Angels or Rangers (or Sox or Yankees) had it been better than what he got. But that's a pattern that suggests Rosenthal's theory doesn't hold water. If Riccardi does follow Beane's example, a trade within the AL East seems a longshot at best.

The difference here though would be the fact that Halladay at the age of 33 would most likely only have 4-5 years of ace like pitching left in his arm. He may pitch better for longer than that or shorter than that, but 4-5 years is reasonable.

The guys that Beane traded away were all in their prime years and would have been pitching against his team for possibly 10+ years if traded within his own division.

Edited by BoSoxFink, 07 July 2009 - 01:17 PM.

[E5 Yaz]

The difference here though would be the fact that Halladay at the age of 33 would most likely only have 4-5 years of ace like pitching left in his arm. He may pitch better for longer than that or shorter than that, but 4-5 years is reasonable.

The guys that Beane traded away were all in their prime years and would have been pitching against his team for possibly 10+ years if traded within his own division.

Halladay to the Yankees or Red Sox, over the next 3-5 years, makes it incredibly difficult for a) the Jays to compete and b) Riccardi to keep his job.

[BoSoxFink]

Halladay to the Yankees or Red Sox, over the next 3-5 years, makes it incredibly difficult for a) the Jays to compete and b) Riccardi to keep his job.

I don't disagree with you, but what if Riccardi is getting the best offer by far from one of those two teams? I just wanted to point out the fact that it is a little different from the guys Bean traded away because of the age of Roy Halladay.