56 replies to this topic

[SoxScout]

SI_JonHeyman: #redsox "in the mix'' for cuban SS whiz jose iglesias. buzz is they get him. one AL exec: like ozzie for hands, arm. LINK

SI_JonHeymana lot of people think #redsox will sign cuban SS hotshot jose iglesias for about $8 mil. superb fielder, but can he hit? LINK

Iglesias, also 19, is said to be a shortstop in the Orlando Cabrera mold. LINK

Iglesias and Arguelles, both 19-years-old, were made free agents on Friday, almost 10 months after they had defected from Cuba. In that time, the two had been working out in the Dominican Republic, where they had established their residency soon after their defection.

Of the two players, Arguelles, who throws in the low 90s, is considered the better prospect, though both are likely to get a signing bonus in excess of $1 million. The New York Yankees have been linked to Arguelles and the Boston Red Sox are known to covet Iglesias.

http://insider.espn....angure_jorge_jr


Source: http://www.elnuevohe...ory/494097.html

Edited by SoxScout, 10 July 2009 - 03:06 PM.

[SoxScout]

Red Sox in serious talks with coveted Cuban SS Iglesias
By Jon Heyman, SI.com

The Red Sox are in serious discussions with Cuban shortstop whiz Jose Iglesias, according to a league source.

If finalized, the contract is expected to be for about $8 million, perhaps a little bit more than that, according to people familiar with the talks. One league source said it wasn't done yet but expressed optimism that it would get done.

Iglesias, who's listed at 19 years old, defected from Cuba last year in Canada during the World Junior Championships.

Scouts who have seen Iglesias liken him to Ozzie Smith defensively.

"His hands and arm are deluxe,'' one American League executive said. "The question is how much he'll hit.''

http://sportsillustr...edsox.iglesias/

Edited by SoxScout, 03 July 2009 - 04:27 PM.

[Maalox]

Never heard of this guy. Any info on all the teams he's loved before?

[jippaman]

I remember hearing this guy's name a few weeks ago on BP. I found the Unfiltered post:

http://www.baseballp...ltered/?p=1311/

Iglesias has a similarly strong tournament record, drawing attention for his flashy glovework at shortstop, with one scout grading his fielding as an 80 on the 20-80 scouting scale. His arm is enough to stick at shortstop, but his range is somewhat limited by his fringe-average speed. Iglesias makes the most of his ability, with instincts that enhance his tools and excellent makeup. He bats from the right side and while his overall offensive package leaves a bit to be desired, most scouts agree Iglesias will hit enough to allow him to profile as a big league regular. He has decent pop in his 5’10 frame, at a maxed-out 180 lbs., though he can get pull-happy at times. An international scouting director called Iglesias’ total package, “Ryan Theriot with better hands.” Iglesias is a defensive-oriented overachiever and executives say he would be more of a 2nd-3rd rounder if eligible for the recent draft.

Hopefully we'll get a full scouting report at some point, most likely if and when he signs with a club.

Of note: it's interesting that the comp in the SI article was Ozzie Smith, while the comp above was Ryan Theriot. Do with that what you will.

[P'tucket, rhymes with...]

I remember hearing this guy's name a few weeks ago on BP. I found the Unfiltered post:

http://www.baseballp...ltered/?p=1311/



Hopefully we'll get a full scouting report at some point, most likely if and when he signs with a club.

Of note: it's interesting that the comp in the SI article was Ozzie Smith, while the comp above was Ryan Theriot. Do with that what you will.

From Scout's quotes above, it sounds like the Oz comparison was mostly in relation to having a good glove. I have to say, comparing anyone with "somewhat limited" range to Ozzie Smith is like saying someone is just like Ron Jeremy, except for...well, anyways.

"Limited range," "fringe-average speed," "offensive package leaves a bit to be desired." I admit I don't know anything about him and say go ahead and sign him, but I feel like I must be missing something here that should make me more excited about getting him.

[PedroKsBambino]

The $1 mil speculated earlier in the thread in the Insider piece fits those scouting profiles a lot better than the $8 mil Heyman suggests.

Interesting to see what the number looks like; if it's the higher one than you have to assume the Sox have a rosier view of his skills.

[SoxScout]

The $8M could be based on him getting a major league contract along the lines of what 19-year old Dayan Viciedo got from the White Sox (4/$10M).

Something like a $3M bonus plus salaries of $0.5M 2010, $1M 2011, $1.5M 2012, $2M 2013.

[Snodgrass'Muff]

Doesn't sound like the kind of prospect to get tight in the pants about, but these are the kinds of things I like to see the Sox doing with their money. The rumored 8 million isn't that much money for the chance that he pans out and actually makes the major league roster at some point. If nothing else, he'll help the overall profile of the farm system, which in turn can help with hyping other prospects.

I don't see a downside to pursuing him, even if the upside isn't huge.

[sodenj5]

Sounds a lot like Yamaico Navarro. The Sox seem to covet all glove, no hit shortstops so much, it's stunning they haven't resigned AGonz.

Edited by sodenj5, 04 July 2009 - 11:21 AM.

[Quintanariffic]

Sounds a lot like Yamaico Navarro. The Sox seem to covet all glove, no hit shortstops so much, it's stunning they haven't resigned AGonz.

Que? I think you mean Argenis Diaz. Navarro put up a .269/.365/.478 line at Greenville (mostly) and Lancaster lat year at age 20. He's a legit prospect with the bat and the glove.

[sodenj5]

Que? I think you mean Argenis Diaz. Navarro put up a .269/.365/.478 line at Greenville (mostly) and Lancaster lat year at age 20. He's a legit prospect with the bat and the glove.

Bah, you're right. Diaz is who I meant. For some reason it seems like most of the SS the Sox draft don't stick at the position. I guess the Sox have identified that defense is paramount at SS with guys like Diaz, Navarro, and now, possibly Iglesias. Must be that philosophy that they apply with outfielders, drafting mainly center fielders. If a guy can play good defense at short, he can play good defense almost anywhere.

[amarshal2]

Bah, you're right. Diaz is who I meant. For some reason it seems like most of the SS the Sox draft don't stick at the position. I guess the Sox have identified that defense is paramount at SS with guys like Diaz, Navarro, and now, possibly Iglesias. Must be that philosophy that they apply with outfielders, drafting mainly center fielders. If a guy can play good defense at short, he can play good defense almost anywhere.

I don't see how you got to this conclusion. Why would the Sox players being moved off SS in the long-run mean that they value defense very highly? Most teams wouldn't even have tried Pedroia or Lowrie at SS. Just because they recognize that a player like Diaz has value, doesn't mean that he's what they're looking for a the ML level.

They like up-the-middle players in the draft because "you can always move them to a corner later. You usually can't move a corner player to an up-the-middle position." We know they like defense because Theo always says that he is trying to build a "pitching and defense" team. However, it's obvious that they are willing to look at the entire equation. There is no rule like "the red sox have identified defense as paramount at SS." This is baloney. They seem willing to go with an average defensive SS who makes up for it with the bat (Lowrie) and I'm sure if you gave them Hanley Ramirez on the condition he must play SS daily they would be thrilled.

[Carl Everetts Therapist]

I have heard from a couple different people (Cuban baseball enthusiasts) that this guy is a Carbon Copy of Yuniesky Benecourt . Flashy fielder with little to no plate discipline. He's the type of player who has a .270 BA and .270 OBP. Now I have also heard that he is very close to being Major League ready as far as fielding wise. I know a lot of people were clamoring for an all fielkd no hit SS this Spring. Iglesias sure fits that mold.


CET

[SoxScout]

Prospecto cubano firma contrato de $8.2 millones con Boston

Basic Google Translation:

He has been compared to Ozzie Smith and at least gave him a respectable bonus in his first major league contract, but now it's up to Jose Iglesias show wood is the best star in the baseball world.

Sources confirmed to El Nuevo Herald that the Cuban torpedo signed a $ 8.2 million contract with the Boston Red Sox for four seasons, including $ 6 just for signing.

"This is enough money for a boy left the ranks of youth'', said an official who preferred anonymity." But Boston and New York are behind position players to secure the future of their organizations.''

Jorge Arangure has said recently he should start in Advanced A, or is at least at that level now.

Edited by SoxScout, 09 July 2009 - 10:19 PM.

[mjswarner]

From the Nuevo Herald article: Theo got caught in a bidding war with the Cubs, first offering 6.5M before Chicago topped it.

Como sucedió en el caso de Contreras, el torpedero se benefició de una puja entre dos equipos, pues Boston le habría ofrecido en principio $6.5 millones antes de que los Cachorros de Chicago pusieran sobre la mesa una oferta superior.

There's some controversy with his former and present representation. His former agent, Jaime Torres, is arguing that Fernando Cuza and Diego Bentz from SFX violated his contract with Iglesias and Torres wants to be paid for his work.

edit: Apparently he's somewhere in this photo, winning a 17-18 year old PanAmerican tournament held in Mexico in 2008. I'm guessing he's the motorboater. Check out that (?) confetti!

Edited by mjswarner, 10 July 2009 - 03:07 AM.

[Eddie Jurak]

That's a TON of money for a prospect level Argenis Diaz, Yuniesky Betancourt, or even Orlando Cabrera. The Red Sox have to see more in him than that.

[SaveBooFerriss]

That's a TON of money for a prospect level Argenis Diaz, Yuniesky Betancourt, or even Orlando Cabrera. The Red Sox have to see more in him than that.

I think the Sox will be thrilled if he has Orlando Cabrera's career. My guess is he is already a better player than Diaz and will become a better player than Betancourt. But, yeah, it is a lot of money.

[SoxScout]

I think it's pretty clear Diaz isn't a comp in the Sox mind. Betancourt is awful defensively and that drags his value down, but he is a .280 hittter and if Iglesias is the same I'll take my chances he can get on base at a better clip than Yuni. That would be a fine return. If he is Cabrera then we just made a unbelievable signing.

[pokey_reese]

I think it's pretty clear Diaz isn't a comp in the Sox mind. Betancourt is awful defensively and that drags his value down, but he is a .280 hittter and if Iglesias is the same I'll take my chances he can get on base at a better clip than Yuni. That would be a fine return. If he is Cabrera then we just made a unbelievable signing.

If he were Cabrera right now than we would have made an unbelievable signing, but more likely, even if he does end up being Cabrera, we will have paid him 8 million dollars to develop into that role over the next 4 years (assuming that it is true that he is heading to A ball), before he hits arbitration and then FA. Not saying that it isn't a good deal, just that we will be drastically overpaying for a guy in the low minors for the first few years in the hopes that he can become valuable by the end of the contract we signed him to. That said, I am still pretty excited, though I wish we could have kidnapped and 'defected' Yulieski Gourriel instead.

[SoxScout]

That is fair if he signed a major league deal, but I am going to doubt that he did until he shows up on the 40-man roster. The article says, "his first major league contract," but I am guessing that just means professional contract.

[pokey_reese]

Good point, I guess that we will have to wait and see the contract. I know that Contreras got a ML contract, and that Chapman is planning on getting one, but they are/were closer to the majors than Iglesias, though Chapman will have to start in the minors probably. I wasn't sure if defecting Cubans just tended to get major league contracts, maybe to make it worth their while to risk defecting? If he doesn't even start his service clock for another 3+ years though, then yeah, this could be a steal of a signing.

[Crazy Puppy]

Good point, I guess that we will have to wait and see the contract. I know that Contreras got a ML contract, and that Chapman is planning on getting one, but they are/were closer to the majors than Iglesias, though Chapman will have to start in the minors probably. I wasn't sure if defecting Cubans just tended to get major league contracts, maybe to make it worth their while to risk defecting? If he doesn't even start his service clock for another 3+ years though, then yeah, this could be a steal of a signing.

Even if he did sign a ML contract, that doesn't start his service time clock. You only accrue ML service time towards arb and free agency if you're on the active 25-man roster (or the major league DL). A Major League contract just means he's on the 40-man roster, which means they'd have to start using options on him immediately.

[SoxScout]

Two scouts with American League organizations independently arrived at the same conclusion about Iglesias, a 19-year-old middle infielder. Both compared him to Orlando Cabrera for his batting stance, infield actions and offensive potential.

"He’s a stud," one of the scouts said. "He’s a plus run and plus arm Orlando Cabrera clone. He’s got a quick bat but I didn’t see much power."

http://www.baseballa...ospects/?p=5505

The Boston Red Sox reportedly signed 19-year-old Cuban infielder Jose Iglesias to an $8.2 million deal, surprising many in the international scouting community. After Iglesias and LHP Noel Arguelles worked out for teams earlier this year, most pegged both to receive offers in the $1-3 million range.

"Exorbitant," one team executive, who attended Iglesias' workout earlier this year, described the signing. "It's crazy, but to each his own. The bat is questionable."

"He's a real small shortstop or second baseman with zero power," one industry source said.

The Cubs also had shown great interest in Iglesias.

"Absolute insanity," one National League international scouting director wrote in an e-mail about the signing. "That number ($8.2 million) would have made him the first or second player selected in the draft and I do not see that. He will play next year at 20 years old. It's one thing to project a 16- or 17-year-old Latin American player who would be sophomore or junior in high school, but a kid that would have already been draft eligible? Wow."

Several talent evaluators agree that being Cuban helped Iglesias in his negotiations. Cuban players often carry a certain mystique, though admittedly very few position-player defectors have had success in the majors. A Dominican player of the same age and same skill set as Iglesias would have struggled to get $100,000, the talent evaluators argue.

http://insider.espn....angure_jorge_jr

Nice, consistent, reports.

Congrats to the National League international scouting director not understanding the difference between drafting a player and one that is a free agent and can sign with any team.

Edited by SoxScout, 10 July 2009 - 02:46 PM.

[OCD SS]

Nice to see him assessed as a plus runner. The BP report that had him as a fringe-average runner was worrying for a player without much power (or power potential).

[Williams Head Case]

Well he has mystique going for him, which is nice. Hopefully the Sox see something in him that these other scouting directors do not. Obviously based on those reports there is a ton of variability in the way he is viewed. Something tells me though that the Sox aren't too caught up in said "mystique" and pegged his value at the $8.2m mark for a reason.

[Return of the Dewey]

Well he has mystique going for him, which is nice. Hopefully the Sox see something in him that these other scouting directors do not. Obviously based on those reports there is a ton of variability in the way he is viewed. Something tells me though that the Sox aren't too caught up in said "mystique" and pegged his value at the $8.2m mark for a reason.

Probably a bunch of "reasons", one of which I'm thinking was the fact that their division rivals (MFY) will probably be in the market for a SS to replace Jeter in the next few years.

[Lollardfish]

Probably a bunch of "reasons", one of which I'm thinking was the fact that their division rivals (MFY) will probably be in the market for a SS to replace Jeter in the next few years.

I really hope that the Red Sox never make decisions based on what the Yankees might do in a few years.

[Return of the Dewey]

I really hope that the Red Sox never make decisions based on what the Yankees might do in a few years.

I think that they make how much they are going to pay a player based upon the market, a market that includes the Yankees (and their needs and financial resources).

[Plympton91]

Good point, I guess that we will have to wait and see the contract. I know that Contreras got a ML contract, and that Chapman is planning on getting one, but they are/were closer to the majors than Iglesias, though Chapman will have to start in the minors probably. I wasn't sure if defecting Cubans just tended to get major league contracts, maybe to make it worth their while to risk defecting? If he doesn't even start his service clock for another 3+ years though, then yeah, this could be a steal of a signing.

If it's really a 4-year contract, then it has to be a major league contract (40-man), doesn't it? I don't think they can offer multi-year contracts to amateurs unless they have a multi-sport scholarship to college. Unless that changed recently, minor leaguers can't be on multi-year deals.

Given the variability in the scouting reports, I think I would have let someone else take the risk and used the $8.2 million to sweeten an offer for the most sought after free agent this offseason. But, you can't argue with this team's player development system, so It'll be nice to sit and watch him come up through the minors.

Edited by Plympton91, 11 July 2009 - 03:07 PM.

[DieHardSoxFan1]

The scouting reports on Iglesias' defense are all over the map. Some say he's an Ozzie Smith clone with the glove, others describe a SS with average range and excellent hands. On the other side of the coin, nearly every talent evaluator doesn't like the young Cuban's skills at the dish. Maybe the Red Sox scouts have discovered a hitch in his swing, and think a few changes will turn Iglesias into a average-hitting SS.

There's empirical evidence suggesting this could work. Ben Zobrist, a career .222/.279/.370 hitters coming into 2009, spent the offseason with a hitting instructor who helped the versatile player clean up his swing. Through 79 games this season with the Rays, Zobrist is hitting .290/.412/.601 and could be the AL's most valuable player not named Joe Mauer.

[JakeRae]

Good point, I guess that we will have to wait and see the contract. I know that Contreras got a ML contract, and that Chapman is planning on getting one, but they are/were closer to the majors than Iglesias, though Chapman will have to start in the minors probably. I wasn't sure if defecting Cubans just tended to get major league contracts, maybe to make it worth their while to risk defecting? If he doesn't even start his service clock for another 3+ years though, then yeah, this could be a steal of a signing.

Why would any team do this? The defection has already occurred. There is no need to reward risky behavior that took place in the past.

Cuban players do seem to have a high likelihood of receiving major league contracts, but that has more to do with the fact that they tend to be older and thus closer to MLB ready and are free agents, and thus can play teams off each other to maximize their contracts, making them a unique sort of amateur talent. (Others are either 16 making an MLB contract almost impossible or draftees which reduces their leverage.) I doubt incentivizing defection has anything to do with the contracts offered to Cuban players.

[bombdiggz]

I find this signing very interesting and extremely puzzling. I don't buy that the Sox were caught in a bidding war with the Cubs. We all know that the organization determines what they think a player is worth and won't go over that threshold. Sure, they'll try to acquire the player for less than what they perceive fair value, but they won't go over that amount. If they are fine with a Damon or Pedro walking, I doubt it would kill them to be outbid by the Cubs for an amateurs service. Their organizational philosophy and actions make it clear that the Sox valued Iglesias very highly. We also know how good the organization is at evaluating talent. The fascinating question becomes what did the Sox see that made them invest so heavily in this relatively unknown commodity.

Personally, I would have preferred the money be spent on securing the services of the top U.S. draftees who are a bit more known like Renfroe Kline, Younginer, Volz, and Jacobs.

Nonetheless, this is going to be an interesting player/story to follow. I'll trust the Sox here and assume that their scouts saw some appealing stuff while scouting him in the D.R.

[SoxScout]

Personally, I would have preferred the money be spent on securing the services of the top U.S. draftees who are a bit more known like Renfroe Kline, Younginer, Volz, and Jacobs.

Iglesias has played a lot more baseball than these guys, he has played against the best kids in the same age bracket in tournaments around the world, and he has been working out at the Red Sox complex in the D.R. I imagine the Sox are a hell of a lot more sure about Iglesias than they are about any draftee.

Edited by SoxScout, 12 July 2009 - 01:10 AM.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Personally, I would have preferred the money be spent on securing the services of the top U.S. draftees who are a bit more known like Renfroe Kline, Younginer, Volz, and Jacobs.

Very ambivalent about the signing. On the one hand, I realize that international signings are past outrageous and (as Gammons point out), at least clubs have some game scouting on Cubans - e.g., Viciedo just got 4/$10.

On the other hand, the $8.2M has to influence the negotiations with the Sox's other draftees, and it seems like the Sox have paid out a ton of bonuses over the last few years without much in results (e.g., no one in the top 25).

Would this guy really have been in the top 5 if he was eligible to be drafted? I guess we'll find out shortly.

[Spacemans Bong]

Iglesias has played a lot more baseball than these guys, he has played against the best kids in the same age bracket in tournaments around the world, and he has been working out at the Red Sox complex in the D.R. I imagine the Sox are a hell of a lot more sure about Iglesias than they are about any draftee.

That doesn't make them sure. As has been noted there haven't been many Cuban position players to have panned out.

The scouting reports are all over the map, so the Red Sox had better be right to go against the grain for such big money. If not this is a pretty big fail.

[Captain Fishtail]

Why would any team do this? The defection has already occurred. There is no need to reward risky behavior that took place in the past.

Well, rewarding it makes it more likely to happen again -- that is, signings like this presumably make it a lot more tempting for others to defect, too. Some of those defections would be good for the Red Sox. All of them would be good for major league baseball. The large sum spent here could thus be a little like a large sum spent to sign Matsuzaka. In addition to getting the player, it is an investment in reputation and in prying open a market.

Edited by Captain Fishtail, 12 July 2009 - 06:47 AM.

[ookami7m]

On the other hand, the $8.2M has to influence the negotiations with the Sox's other draftees, and it seems like the Sox have paid out a ton of bonuses over the last few years without much in results (e.g., no one in the top 25).

Why would a FA signing have any impact of the negotiations with controlled rights draftees? You're comparing apples and elephants here.

[sodenj5]

Would this guy really have been in the top 5 if he was eligible to be drafted? I guess we'll find out shortly.

He likely wouldn't even be a first rounder if drafted.

From Baseball Prospectus:

Iglesias is a defensive-oriented overachiever and executives say he would be more of a 2nd-3rd rounder if eligible for the recent draft.

[bombdiggz]

Iglesias has played a lot more baseball than these guys, he has played against the best kids in the same age bracket in tournaments around the world, and he has been working out at the Red Sox complex in the D.R. I imagine the Sox are a hell of a lot more sure about Iglesias than they are about any draftee.

I hope they are sure.

But, just based on the odds against any prospect that they develop into a useful MLer, I find it hard to believe it wouldn't be smarter and a more efficient use of resources to spread that 8 M over 5 or so prospects. Not to mention the 40 man roster spot, and given the relative crunch, someone who is much further along in their development is likely to be left exposed.

I just don't fully understand this move, but like I said before the Sox must have seen something special. His development will be interesting to follow going forward.

Edited by bombdiggz, 14 July 2009 - 09:25 AM.

[smastroyin]

See, I have been shit on around here for suggesting the Sox are leaning toward overvaluing these defense/speed whizzes, but man, I can't believe they threw $8.2 million at this guy but refused to "overpay" for Pedro Alvarez, Hunter Morris, or Matt LaPorta. Blah blah blah faith and hope and love and all that but can't this team take some chances on bats rather than throwing all of their money at middle of the diamond players who may never hit and pitching. One Lars Anderson is not enough. And this offseason showed that they aren't always going to be able to get the bats they want through FA. Thank whatever baseball god you bow to Youks has greatly exceeded whatever reasonable expectation was for his power potential.

I'm glad they are willing to spend so having this guy is better than not having him, I just hope they have some plan to get this to be a top 3 AL offense going forward, because the guys they are developing aren't going to get there, and David Ortiz doesn't fall into your lap every 6 years.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Why would a FA signing have any impact of the negotiations with controlled rights draftees? You're comparing apples and elephants here.

Maybe here's a way to put it. Pretend you're an overslot draftee that has the chance to go back to school or go to college. You think you're better than this kid (from all reports, that is). Wouldn't the fact that the Sox just gave him $8.2M affect the way you negotiate with the Sox?

If you had a figure in mind that it would take to get you signed, that figure may have gone up but certainly you're a lot less likely to take less than that figure.

[Joshv02]

But, just based on the odds against any prospect that they develop into a useful MLer, I find it hard to believe it wouldn't be smarter and a more efficient use of resources to spread that 8 M over 5 or so prospects.

When looking at a large sample, yes. But each individual good/player is different and has its own individual risks/rewards/price.

A 2 foot tall child on average will not drown in a pool that averages 1 foot and 10 inches. But if the child hits the deep end, the kid is going underwater. Lesson: We should not confuse observations drawn from large samples to observations about any specific deal.

[SaveBooFerriss]

See, I have been shit on around here for suggesting the Sox are leaning toward overvaluing these defense/speed whizzes, but man, I can't believe they threw $8.2 million at this guy but refused to "overpay" for Pedro Alvarez, Hunter Morris, or Matt LaPorta. Blah blah blah faith and hope and love and all that but can't this team take some chances on bats rather than throwing all of their money at middle of the diamond players who may never hit and pitching. One Lars Anderson is not enough. And this offseason showed that they aren't always going to be able to get the bats they want through FA. Thank whatever baseball god you bow to Youks has greatly exceeded whatever reasonable expectation was for his power potential.

I'm glad they are willing to spend so having this guy is better than not having him, I just hope they have some plan to get this to be a top 3 AL offense going forward, because the guys they are developing aren't going to get there, and David Ortiz doesn't fall into your lap every 6 years.

Hunter Morris is a unique situation. Apparently, he told the Sox he would sign for X. After the draft, the Sox offered X and he wanted X + Y. You can't negotiate like that or every other player will do the same thing. They had to walk away from Morris on principle.

[Shelterdog]

See, I have been shit on around here for suggesting the Sox are leaning toward overvaluing these defense/speed whizzes, but man, I can't believe they threw $8.2 million at this guy but refused to "overpay" for Pedro Alvarez, Hunter Morris, or Matt LaPorta. Blah blah blah faith and hope and love and all that but can't this team take some chances on bats rather than throwing all of their money at middle of the diamond players who may never hit and pitching. One Lars Anderson is not enough. And this offseason showed that they aren't always going to be able to get the bats they want through FA. Thank whatever baseball god you bow to Youks has greatly exceeded whatever reasonable expectation was for his power potential.

I'm glad they are willing to spend so having this guy is better than not having him, I just hope they have some plan to get this to be a top 3 AL offense going forward, because the guys they are developing aren't going to get there, and David Ortiz doesn't fall into your lap every 6 years.

Didn't the Red Sox show they were willing to do more (and willing to spend more) than any other team to get Alvarez, Morris and LaPorta? They drafted all three and give them all big contract offers. The fact of the matter is you're not going to be able to sign every hard sign without grossly overpaying, and if you start overpaying one guy you're going to run into the same problem over and over again.

[smastroyin]

Didn't the Red Sox show they were willing to do more (and willing to spend more) than any other team to get Alvarez, Morris and LaPorta? They drafted all three and give them all big contract offers. The fact of the matter is you're not going to be able to sign every hard sign without grossly overpaying, and if you start overpaying one guy you're going to run into the same problem over and over again.

Yes, I know. My point is that I see this signing as a gross overpayment. I hope he is really something special.

[Shelterdog]

Yes, I know. My point is that I see this signing as a gross overpayment. I hope he is really something special.

Agreed. While the market for Cuban players is a little different and the specifics of his deal are still opaque, for 8.2 million he better be good.

[amarshal2]

Maybe here's a way to put it. Pretend you're an overslot draftee that has the chance to go back to school or go to college. You think you're better than this kid (from all reports, that is). Wouldn't the fact that the Sox just gave him $8.2M affect the way you negotiate with the Sox?

If you had a figure in mind that it would take to get you signed, that figure may have gone up but certainly you're a lot less likely to take less than that figure.

I think the Sox put a price on a player and stick to it. If the kid doesn't like their contract offer, he can go to college. Many before him have and many after him will. So no, I don't think this will affect their ability to sign their draftees.

I'm not sure I understand the signing based on the reports we've heard about his talent. This leads me to the conclusion that the Red Sox think he's better than the public reports. There have been opportunities for them to over-pay for Int'l FA's like this recently (Tazawa) and they have not done so. I don't know why Iglesias would be different. They must think that either he's better than Tazawa or that they had to buy him away from another team he preferred (a reverse Tazawa, if you will).

[Shelterdog]

I think the Sox put a price on a player and stick to it. If the kid doesn't like their contract offer, he can go to college. Many before him have and many after him will. So no, I don't think this will affect their ability to sign their draftees.

I'm not sure I understand the signing based on the reports we've heard about his talent. This leads me to the conclusion that the Red Sox think he's better than the public reports. There have been opportunities for them to over-pay for Int'l FA's like this recently (Tazawa) and they have not done so. I don't know why Iglesias would be different. They must think that either he's better than Tazawa or that they had to buy him away from another team he preferred (a reverse Tazawa, if you will).

Here's a question for the cba fans. What happens at the end of Iglesias's four year deal? I assume he becomes arb. eligible at some point but what are the specifics?

Edited by Shelterdog, 14 July 2009 - 01:47 PM.

[Quintanariffic]

See, I have been shit on around here for suggesting the Sox are leaning toward overvaluing these defense/speed whizzes, but man, I can't believe they threw $8.2 million at this guy but refused to "overpay" for Pedro Alvarez, Hunter Morris, or Matt LaPorta. Blah blah blah faith and hope and love and all that but can't this team take some chances on bats rather than throwing all of their money at middle of the diamond players who may never hit and pitching. One Lars Anderson is not enough. And this offseason showed that they aren't always going to be able to get the bats they want through FA. Thank whatever baseball god you bow to Youks has greatly exceeded whatever reasonable expectation was for his power potential.

I'm glad they are willing to spend so having this guy is better than not having him, I just hope they have some plan to get this to be a top 3 AL offense going forward, because the guys they are developing aren't going to get there, and David Ortiz doesn't fall into your lap every 6 years.

Josh Reddick, he of the .542 SLG (.271 IsoP) in AA at age 22 and with improving plate discipline (0.70 IsoD - by far the highest of his career), says hi.

So does Anthony Rizzo, who just got promoted to Salem after blazing through the SAL to the tune of .298/.365/.494 in his first year of recovering from cancer - at age 19.

There's power in the upper levels of the system beyond Lars.

Edited by Quintanariffic, 14 July 2009 - 02:22 PM.

[saintnick912]

Here's a question for the cba fans. What happens at the end of Iglesias's four year deal? I assume he becomes arb. eligible at some point but what are the specifics?

I believe the arb eligible point depends only on 25-man roster time (3 years or "Super 2"), and not on how long you've had a major league contract.

The contract, and I'm recalling from the Wily Mo Pena case here, just stipulates that the player be on the major league (40-man) roster throughout. This causes the club to burn an option for every year the player plays in the minor leagues, and thus means that the player must be in the major leagues or DFA'd by the time the options run out. Players are normally limited to 3 options, though I'm not 100% on international signings whether or not it goes up to 4. It's a ticking clock though, and can lead to a player being rushed to the big leagues before they're fully prepared (the WMP case again).