3147 replies to this topic

[Titoschew]

That's just a solid picture right there, Needles.

[TheNeedle]

That's just a solid picture right there, Needles.

I think that was one of the main reasons I ended up picking him. Adrian and Fitz had nothing on that gem.

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Well the difference here being is how good do you think Matt Ryan is? You seem to think he isn't that good, while I tend to lean towards him being the next in line to be a great qb in the league, a la Manning/Brady. It is all a matter of perspective. I compared the stats of Brady's first year to Ryan's and they are very similar and that doesn't even take into account that Brady's first year playing wasn't his first in the league and he had time to learn the offense before actually playing, while Ryan came in and played right away.

I agree that's the difference, and I think we just have a difference of opinion about Matt Ryan. To me, there is no way to take one year of pretty decent but not overwhelming stats and predict the next Tom Brady. It just doesn't work like that in football in my opinion.

[D Jack's Dome]

Brees is 30, and accumulates alot of yards because his defense has always sucked. Roethlisberger is coming off a 17TD 15INT performance. The fact that he was great in the Super Bowl not withstanding, he is not someone I would want to build a team around starting from scratch at #9.

So any average QB with a bad defense can throw for 5000+ yards? 4400+ yards two straight seasons? That makes tons of sense.

Big Ben brings more to the table then just a 17/15 (which he achieved with some serious injuries almost the whole season, btw.)

I understand if you really wanted Brady/Manning. But you said you wanted Rivers too...yet Brees (#1 ranked QB last year) and Big Ben weren't good enough?

I understand the Ware pick. I actually kind of liked it. He deserved to be the first defender off the board. I'd even agree that QB #8 might end up coming off too high. But the top 5 QB's deserved to be the top 5 picks.

[BoSoxFink]

I agree that's the difference, and I think we just have a difference of opinion about Matt Ryan. To me, there is no way to take one year of pretty decent but not overwhelming stats and predict the next Tom Brady. It just doesn't work like that in football in my opinion.

You will rue the day you said this when Matt Ryan leads my BS Fink Cardinals over your teams repeatedly!

Edited by BoSoxFink, 11 June 2009 - 03:05 PM.

[UNCSoxFan5]

So any average QB with a bad defense can throw for 5000+ yards? 4400+ yards two straight seasons? That makes tons of sense.

Big Ben brings more to the table then just a 17/15 (which he achieved with some serious injuries almost the whole season, btw.)

I understand if you really wanted Brady/Manning. But you said you wanted Rivers too...yet Brees (#1 ranked QB last year) and Big Ben weren't good enough?

I understand the Ware pick. I actually kind of liked it. He deserved to be the first defender off the board. I'd even agree that QB #8 might end up coming off too high. But the top 5 QB's deserved to be the top 5 picks.

Never said Brees was average. Just didn't think he was worth picking at 9. Roethlisberger has thrown over 20 TD once in his career. And has had a ton of injuries. Not someone I want. I said I would have considered Rivers, still not sure I would have taken him there.

[Titoschew]

I picked 9th, with Brady, Manning, Rivers off the board. For reasons I just discussed I do not like any of the other QB's this high. I am building a team to win in a 1-4 year window, not just for 2009.

I would argue that Big Ben (27) and Brees (30) would qualify to be able to win in the next four seasons, which is why if you were looking at QB at your spot and they were available you'd have to consider them. It's all your own strategy, but these are guys who are proven top guys at their position and ruling them out totally is outlandish.

That being said, they weren't there and Ware was a very nice pick in that slot.

[UNCSoxFan5]

I would argue that Big Ben (27) and Brees (30) would qualify to be able to win in the next four seasons, which is why if you were looking at QB at your spot and they were available you'd have to consider them. It's all your own strategy, but these are guys who are proven top guys at their position and ruling them out totally is outlandish.

That being said, they weren't there and Ware was a very nice pick in that slot.

Not saying they cant win. Just don't like them at #9.

[D Jack's Dome]

Not saying they cant win. Just don't like them at #9.

Ok, lets reverse this then.

Put yourself in my shoes with the 4th pick in the draft. You still take Ware there?

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

Basically it comes down to: Do you think Big Ben, Rivers, Palmer, or other above average QBs are the 5-10 most valuable players in the NFL. I say no.

[D Jack's Dome]

Basically it comes down to: Do you think Big Ben, Rivers, Palmer, or other above average QBs are the 5-10 most valuable players in the NFL. I say no.

Brees?

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

Brees?

I like Brees

[TheNeedle]

Basically it comes down to: Do you think Big Ben, Rivers, Palmer, or other above average QBs are the 5-10 most valuable players in the NFL. I say no.

Best? Probably not. Most valuable? Yeah, I'd say so. The best wideout in the league isn't going to get anything if his quarterback is throwing passes 10 yards behind him, and given the attrition rating among halfbacks, picking one of them is pretty risky, to say the least. Granted, any good quarterback needs a solid offensive line in front of him and some guys to throw to, but he's the keystone to the whole foundation. Starting a team off with a solid quarterback -- maybe not amazing, but solid -- is establishing a firm base for your franchise, IMO.

[UNCSoxFan5]

Ok, lets reverse this then.

Put yourself in my shoes with the 4th pick in the draft. You still take Ware there?

Yeah I think so. Might have considered Clady as well.

[Dgilpin]

Basically it comes down to: Do you think Big Ben, Rivers, Palmer, or other above average QBs are the 5-10 most valuable players in the NFL. I say no.

I maybe be speaking for myself, but I think some of the others owners (myself included) are of the thinking that in the next 4-5 season a few of these guys will become the elite QB's in the league, i.e top 3 QB. Granted some may fall off or maintain an above average production. But I looked at it from the prespective, which young QB did I feel represent the best opportunity to grow into an elite QB, for me it was Rivers. For someone else it could have been Ben, Palmer, Ryan, or Breees, regardless I think the mindset is these players offer above average to great production at the QB position now. With the potential to evolve into the top QB's in the league and I think most people would be willing to roll the dice with a top 3 QB leading their team for the next 4-5 years.

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I really like Rivers and Brees and might have taken them at #8, although I can't see either of them ever being on the Brady/Manning elite level. I respect the hell out of Roethlisberger and think he has serious stones, but he has benefited from elite talent around him and is a couple more concussions from being forced out of the league. Palmer hasn't been the same guy since the knee injury and at 30 is now exiting his peak years. Matt Ryan is a talented guy who showed he can drive the car without crashing, but hasn't really shown that he can do any tricks.

To me, none of these guys are clearly better bets going forward than Aaron Rodgers or Matt Cassel or Jay Cutler or Eli Manning. And in a shorter time horizon, its not obvious that they will be better than guys like Donovan McNabb or Kurt Warner or Mark Bulger. If you are going to make the case for one of these players being a future Top 3 QB, then what I want to know is what makes them different from everybody else.

Edited by Morgan's Magic Snowplow, 11 June 2009 - 03:32 PM.

[Dgilpin]

So who else out there is refreshing their computer every few minutes to see if anyone else has picked yet... I'm sure I'm not alone.

[D Jack's Dome]

I really like Rivers and Brees. Roethlisberger benefits from elite talent around him, and is a couple more concussions from being forced out of the league. Palmer hasn't been the same guy since the knee injury and at 30 is now exiting his peak years. Matt Ryan is a talented guy who showed he can drive the car without crashing, but hasn't really shown that he can do any tricks. To me, none of these guys are particularly distinguishable from Aaron Rodgers or Matt Cassel or Jay Cutler or Eli Manning going forward.

I agree with that assessment, although Im not as bullish on Ryan as you are.

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

Is ESPN copying us?

If you were allowed to draft 10 players from the NFC East to serve as the core of a Super Bowl contender for the next three seasons, who would they be?

They have done the top 10 players from each division in the NFC (AFC comes Friday). QBs are going early.

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

If I believed in a quarterback, I would certainly draft him first.

There are quarterbacks and there are game managers. Having a true quarterback is more important than any other position, by far.

The problem is there aren't 32 real quarterbacks playing football today. Having a Kyle Orton isn't all that terrible a fate, but it's not worth a first-round pick.

So I have no problem with Rivers, Roethlisberger and Ryan going early in the first round. There aren't enough quarterbacks for every team.

[D Jack's Dome]

So who else out there is refreshing their computer every few minutes to see if anyone else has picked yet... I'm sure I'm not alone.

Eh, I'm not really sweating it anymore. We probably won't be able to pick for another 2 days anyway.

[bsj]

Is ESPN copying us?



They have done the top 10 players from each division in the NFC (AFC comes Friday). QBs are going early.

thats a shit list.

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

thats a shit list.

No kidding.

[bsj]

No kidding.

he lists the 34 year old London Fletcher as a building block

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

he lists the 34 year old London Fletcher as a building block

Just trying to see if I can get you guys off my trail. Hey maybe you'll take Eli next.

[Myt1]

While probably not as good a run blocker as Joe Thomas at this point in his career, he has all the physical tools and football instincts to become dominant in that area of the game as well. I considered Thomas here too, but I think Clady has a bit more upside, considering just how good he was as a rookie out of a program like Boise State.

With that as an intro, the Myt Cowboys select Joe Thomas, LT, Cleveland.

The 24 year-old, 6'6", 305 lbs. Thomas is already a two-time Pro-Bowler. As a rookie in 2007, Thomas played every offensive snap for the Browns. He has not missed a game in his career. His combination of youth, health, speed, natural agility, and technique make him the linchpin of my offensive line for years to come: he'll be an excellent insurance policy for Tim Tebow, whom I'll probably have to draft with all of you QB-wacky mofos around. One of the most impressive things about Thomas is that he wil likely only improve in the coming years as he becomes physically stronger. Thomas is indicative of the transition to the "LT as the uber-athlete" mindset: he punted and place-kicked in high school, and put the shot while at Wisconsin.

Finally, Thomas also has a rare sense of perspective for an athlete so talented and decorated: when he was taken with the third overall pick in the 2007 NFL Draft, Thomas was not in New York or at a draft party. He was off fishing with his dad.

Oh, and this picture is awesome.

Edited by Myt1, 11 June 2009 - 04:53 PM.

[Stuart Scott's Lazy Eye]

With the 12th overall pick in the RealFantasy Pigskin Draft, the Sille Stuart Dolphins select:

Vince Wilfork


Running the 3-4, the Sille Stuart Dolphins are committed to defense, and there's no one better to annihilate all of your highly touted QBs than #75.

At 6'2", 325 lbs., this behemoth had 66 tackles last season. He is a force to be reckoned with at the Nose position, and only 27 years old. A great asset to have to clog up the middle, and good for years to come.


Sille Stuart Dolphins
QB
RB
RB
FB
TE
WR
WR
WR
LT
LG
C
RG
RT
DE
DE
DT/NT - Vince Wilfork
DT/NT
ILB
ILB
OLB
OLB
CB
CB
CB
FS
SS
Kicker
Punter

Edited by Stuart Scott's Lazy Eye, 11 June 2009 - 06:12 PM.

[SeoulSoxFan]

So any average QB with a bad defense can throw for 5000+ yards? 4400+ yards two straight seasons? That makes tons of sense.

Big Ben brings more to the table then just a 17/15 (which he achieved with some serious injuries almost the whole season, btw.)

I understand if you really wanted Brady/Manning. But you said you wanted Rivers too...yet Brees (#1 ranked QB last year) and Big Ben weren't good enough?

I understand the Ware pick. I actually kind of liked it. He deserved to be the first defender off the board. I'd even agree that QB #8 might end up coming off too high. But the top 5 QB's deserved to be the top 5 picks.

That's my reaction here - picking on Brees for having a bad D and Big Ben for last year's 17/15 is really cherry picking. Nothing wrong with Ware pick, but Rivers over Brees/BB?

I think if you are planning to win in windows 1-4, you better really stack up on both sides of the line or the Ware will be sucking wind by the 3rd quarter.

[UNCSoxFan5]

That's my reaction here - picking on Brees for having a bad D and Big Ben for last year's 17/15 is really cherry picking. Nothing wrong with Ware pick, but Rivers over Brees/BB?

I think if you are planning to win in windows 1-4, you better really stack up on both sides of the line or the Ware will be sucking wind by the 3rd quarter.

I don't like Brees at 9, and Big Ben has had a history of injuries, and has surpassed 20TD once. Thats my reasoning.

[SeoulSoxFan]

If I can't get a top QB, then the next best thing is someone who will wall off my guy's blindside for the next ten years. A dominating LT has ripple effects throughout the rest of an offense, and nobody stands to dominate the position more over the next decade than Ryan Clady of the Denver Broncos. A rookie last year, and not even from a major conference program, Clady started from day one and gave up only 1/2 sack and took only three penalties all year, despite the fact that the Broncos really never gave him help and Jay Cutler threw the ninth most passes in NFL history in a single season. By the end of the year, football watchers had taken notice, voting him 2nd team All-Pro. While probably not as good a run blocker as Joe Thomas at this point in his career, he has all the physical tools and football instincts to become dominant in that area of the game as well. I considered Thomas here too, but I think Clady has a bit more upside, considering just how good he was as a rookie out of a program like Boise State. He kicked Julius Peppers's ass. He kicked John Abraham's ass. He kicked Joey Porter's ass. And I'm looking forward to him kicking a lot more ass over the next decade as the cornerstone of my offensive line.

I figured Brady, Manning, Brees, Big Ben, and possibly Ryan might be gone by #6, and if so Clady would have been my pick at that spot. A dominating LT can allow you to have a Garcia or a Grossman (gulp) and still compete - terrific choice, and I put him over Thomas as the premier LT in the game today.

[SeoulSoxFan]

I don't like Brees at 9, and Big Ben has had a history of injuries, and has surpassed 20TD once. Thats my reasoning.

Big Ben has missed a total of 6 games in 5 full seasons. Injury concerns with Roethlisberger are fair, but I think it's overblown.

[D Jack's Dome]

I don't like Brees at 9, and Big Ben has had a history of injuries, and has surpassed 20TD once. Thats my reasoning.

Thats really not reasoning. "I dont like Brees at 9" adds no volume or reason to your though process. The guy had the best season of any QB last year, and was a top 3 QB every year for 3 straight years. Not liking him at 9 makes no sense. He's a top 3 QB.

[SeoulSoxFan]

That is what makes this draft exciting I believe. There is a lot of risk in not drafting a qb in the first round and it is very interesting to see who they will be left with as the draft moves on. I was very happy Ryan was still available when I picked at 7, I just really believe you must have a top of the line qb to win. I know it is has happened before without a good qb, i.e. the Ravens, but it makes it that much easier to win the Super Bowl when you have a star qb.

I thought Ryan should be the next QB picked after Roethlisberger and indeed he was.

Although I would have gone with Clady if Big Ben was gone, Ryan gives you a ton of years and is ready to take the Falcons (Falcons!) to 2 straight PO appearance -- which has never happened in the franchise's history.

[Ferm Sheller]

There are a few QBs remaining that should be picked ahead of some of these guys, IMO. Arguably the single most important position in the 4 major sports. Tough to pass up some of these QBs only to get stuck with the absolute crud that's going to be around in Round 2 and beyond.

Having said that, however, it remains extremely unlikely that I'll be able to justify taking a QB at my spot (28).

[SeoulSoxFan]

There are a few QBs remaining that should be picked ahead of some of these guys, IMO. Arguably the single most important position in the 4 major sports. Tough to pass up some of these QBs only to get stuck with the absolute crud that's going to be around in Round 2 and beyond.

Having said that, however, it remains extremely unlikely that I'll be able to justify taking a QB at my spot (28).

Interesting Sheller - who would you take over the QBs taken so far? (Since most likely they won't make it to #28).

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I figured Brady, Manning, Brees, Big Ben, and possibly Ryan might be gone by #6, and if so Clady would have been my pick at that spot. A dominating LT can allow you to have a Garcia or a Grossman (gulp) and still compete - terrific choice, and I put him over Thomas as the premier LT in the game today.

Can't go wrong with Roethlisberger either!

[Ferm Sheller]

Interesting Sheller - who would you take over the QBs taken so far? (Since most likely they won't make it to #28).

There isn't a single QB whom I'd take over any of the QBs taken so far, but I'd take Cutler or Romo, for example, over the LTs and Wilfork. It's much better to have one of them than to risk getting stuck with a Leftwich or Quinn or Jeff Garcia-type later on. I mean, there are some QBs you can't win the SB with no matter how good the rest of your team is. A least guys like Cutler and Romo give you a chance.

[axx]

I don't like the Palmer pick. I think the injuries have finally caught up to him and I don't see him returning to the level of the year that they went to the playoffs. Which is kinda scary if you're a Pats fan considering the injuries of Palmer and Brady are similar.

As for late round QBs, I think there are a couple. I happen to like JaMarcus Russell more than most people do. It's not going to work in Oakland, but if he were on a real team, I think he could be successful. He really could use Randy Moss .

Personally, I'd be tempted to take a LT, such as Jake Long now.

[SeoulSoxFan]

I don't like the Palmer pick. I think the injuries have finally caught up to him and I don't see him returning to the level of the year that they went to the playoffs. Which is kinda scary if you're a Pats fan considering the injuries of Palmer and Brady are similar.

As for late round QBs, I think there are a couple. I happen to like JaMarcus Russell more than most people do. It's not going to work in Oakland, but if he were on a real team, I think he could be successful. He really could use Randy Moss .

Personally, I'd be tempted to take a LT, such as Jake Long now.

Not to digress but not so concerned. Palmer had a terrific year coming back from his injury. Not missing a game all season and throwing for over 4,000 yards (4,035 passing yards, 28TD/13INT, to go along with a 93.9 rating) a career high.

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

There isn't a single QB whom I'd take over any of the QBs taken so far, but I'd take Cutler or Romo, for example, over the LTs and Wilfork. It's much better to have one of them than to risk getting stuck with a Leftwich or Quinn or Jeff Garcia-type later on. I mean, there are some QBs you can't win the SB with no matter how good the rest of your team is. A least guys like Cutler and Romo give you a chance.

Last year, in a parallel universe, some guy was probably saying how you needed to pick Derek Anderson or Tony Romo or else you might get stuck with some unproven clown like Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, or Matt Cassel or some washed up stiff like Kurt Warner.

Edited by Morgan's Magic Snowplow, 11 June 2009 - 06:25 PM.

[D Jack's Dome]

I don't like the Palmer pick. I think the injuries have finally caught up to him and I don't see him returning to the level of the year that they went to the playoffs. Which is kinda scary if you're a Pats fan considering the injuries of Palmer and Brady are similar.

As for late round QBs, I think there are a couple. I happen to like JaMarcus Russell more than most people do. It's not going to work in Oakland, but if he were on a real team, I think he could be successful. He really could use Randy Moss .

Personally, I'd be tempted to take a LT, such as Jake Long now.

No they aren't.

I don't feel like typing it again, so...

Edited by D Jack's Dome, 11 June 2009 - 06:29 PM.

[SeoulSoxFan]

With that as an intro, the Myt Cowboys select Joe Thomas, LT, Cleveland.

The 24 year-old, 6'6", 305 lbs. Thomas is already a two-time Pro-Bowler. As a rookie in 2007, Thomas played every offensive snap for the Browns. He has not missed a game in his career. His combination of youth, health, speed, natural agility, and technique make him the linchpin of my offensive line for years to come: he'll be an excellent insurance policy for Tim Tebow, whom I'll probably have to draft with all of you QB-wacky mofos around. One of the most impressive things about Thomas is that he wil likely only improve in the coming years as he becomes physically stronger. Thomas is indicative of the transition to the "LT as the uber-athlete" mindset: he punted and place-kicked in high school, and put the shot while at Wisconsin.

Finally, Thomas also has a rare sense of perspective for an athlete so talented and decorated: when he was taken with the third overall pick in the 2007 NFL Draft, Thomas was not in New York or at a draft party. He was off fishing with his dad.

Oh, and this picture is awesome.

No one else had commented on this yet, so I will - Thomas is simply a monster and is totally the perfect pick at this spot. Sure, I'm a QB mofo, but you gotta respect the freak of nature that is Joe Thomas.

[BoSoxFink]

Last year, in a parallel universe, some guy was probably saying how you needed to pick Derek Anderson or Tony Romo or else you might get stuck with some unproven clown like Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, or Matt Cassel or some washed up stiff like Kurt Warner.

This is a fantastic point, you never know from year to year really in the NFL. It really is just people hoping they pick the right quarterback who may develop into Brady/Manning.

[D Jack's Dome]

No one else had commented on this yet, so I will - Thomas is simply a monster and is totally the perfect pick at this spot. Sure, I'm a QB mofo, but you gotta respect the freak of nature that is Joe Thomas.

Yeah. Perfect pick, guy's an animal.

The issue, I feel anyway, with drafting a tackle so early in the first round is that by the time the draft snakes back to you, that incredible tackle might not have any great skill player to protect. We'll have to see how it plays out I suppose.

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

With that as an intro, the Myt Cowboys select Joe Thomas, LT, Cleveland.

The 24 year-old, 6'6", 305 lbs. Thomas is already a two-time Pro-Bowler. As a rookie in 2007, Thomas played every offensive snap for the Browns. He has not missed a game in his career. His combination of youth, health, speed, natural agility, and technique make him the linchpin of my offensive line for years to come: he'll be an excellent insurance policy for Tim Tebow, whom I'll probably have to draft with all of you QB-wacky mofos around. One of the most impressive things about Thomas is that he wil likely only improve in the coming years as he becomes physically stronger. Thomas is indicative of the transition to the "LT as the uber-athlete" mindset: he punted and place-kicked in high school, and put the shot while at Wisconsin.

Finally, Thomas also has a rare sense of perspective for an athlete so talented and decorated: when he was taken with the third overall pick in the 2007 NFL Draft, Thomas was not in New York or at a draft party. He was off fishing with his dad.

Oh, and this picture is awesome.

I will continue hooking you up with genius as this progresses.

We will build this team Patriot style; awesome O-line, excellent defense and then a QB who looks good playing behind that great O-line and winning because of our D. These "Qb is the most important position on the field" guys whould watch more Bill Belichick football.

There have been two good selections so far this draft; this one and Ware. Matt Ryan is in third place. All others have been debacley shamockery.

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

With the 12th overall pick in the RealFantasy Pigskin Draft, the Sille Stuart Dolphins select:

Vince Wilfork


Running the 3-4, the Sille Stuart Dolphins are committed to defense, and there's no one better to annihilate all of your highly touted QBs than #75.

At 6'2", 325 lbs., this behemoth had 66 tackles last season. He is a force to be reckoned with at the Nose position, and only 27 years old. A great asset to have to clog up the middle, and good for years to come.


Sille Stuart Dolphins
QB
RB
RB
FB
TE
WR
WR
WR
LT
LG
C
RG
RT
DE
DE
DT/NT - Vince Wilfork
DT/NT
ILB
ILB
OLB
OLB
CB
CB
CB
FS
SS
Kicker
Punter

OK, this was an excellent pick too

[D Jack's Dome]

I will continue hooking you up with genius as this progresses.

We will build this team Patriot style; awesome O-line, excellent defense and then a QB who looks good playing behind that great O-line and winning because of our D. These "Qb is the most important position on the field" guys whould watch more Bill Belichick football.

There have been two good selections so far this draft; this one and Ware. Matt Ryan is in third place. All others have been debacley shamockery.

Enjoy your Kerry Collins/Brett Favre pu-pu platter.

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

Enjoy your Kerry Collins/Brett Favre pu-pu platter.

If this kid Vollmer doesn't pan out and if Light and Koppen age as they are likely you may have to watch exactly how important an O-line is to success relative to the QB every Sunday.

[Titoschew]

With the 13th selecton in the inaugural RealFantasy Pigskin draft, the Titoschew Philadelphia Eagles select:

PATRICK WILLIS MLB SF 49ers



You guys caught me headed out the door, so I'd write more if I had time. Didn't want to keep people on hold for four more hours.

I really wanted Joe Thomas though!

[D Jack's Dome]

If this kid Vollmer doesn't pan out and if Light and Koppen age as they are likely you may have to watch exactly how important an O-line is to success relative to the QB every Sunday.

Blasphemy!