[jcd0805]

Jim Tracy replaces him.

link

And somehow a manager with a worse record than his and absolutely NO success during his tenure remains on the job, unbelievable if it weren't NATSTOWN!!

[SeanBerry]

And somehow a manager with a worse record than his and absolutely NO success during his tenure remains on the job, unbelievable if it weren't NATSTOWN!!

I don't understand.

Are you saying the manager with the worse record is Jim Tracy? Because Jim Tracy actually has a batter record and did bring the Dodgers to the playoffs.

[jcd0805]

I don't understand.

Are you saying the manager with the worse record is Jim Tracy? Because Jim Tracy actually has a batter record and did bring the Dodgers to the playoffs.

Oh Sean you disappoint me-I'm talking about the Natinals' Manny Acta.

[Laser Show]

Oh Sean you disappoint me-I'm talking about the Natinals' Manny Acta.

I don't think it's Acta's fault that the roster he got handed sucks.

[jcd0805]

I don't think it's Acta's fault that the roster he got handed sucks.

Actually there is talent there, not World Series talent but better than they've been if, you know, he had them playing at least a semblance of big league baseball. Never steal a base, stop their runners all the time on third when they could easily make it home, ridiculous bullpen usage at times, absolutely atrocious defense, I could go on and on but anyone who has read the "Natstown" thread knows exactly what I am talking about.

[BucketOBalls]

Oh Sean you disappoint me-I'm talking about the Natinals' Manny Acta.

I suspect Sean was being sarcastic.


Using being swept at home by the team with the best record and point differential seems like an odd reason to fire the manager though.
I wonder if this is a prep move toward firing O'Dowd(which might make more sense). That way, the next guy doesn't have to make an awkward decision about the manager.

[mikeford]

Actually there is talent there, not World Series talent but better than they've been if, you know, he had them playing at least a semblance of big league baseball. Never steal a base, stop their runners all the time on third when they could easily make it home, ridiculous bullpen usage at times, absolutely atrocious defense, I could go on and on but anyone who has read the "Natstown" thread knows exactly what I am talking about.

As someone who watches Natstown religiously, I don't know what the hell else you expect Acta to do with his UNBELIEVABLY HISTORICALLY BAD bullpen.

Everyone out there sucks. Literally every single member of that bullpen deserves to be in AAA or worse. What do you want the guy to do?

[jcd0805]

As someone who watches Natstown religiously, I don't know what the hell else you expect Acta to do with his UNBELIEVABLY HISTORICALLY BAD bullpen.

Everyone out there sucks. Literally every single member of that bullpen deserves to be in AAA or worse. What do you want the guy to do?

Nope sorry I do not believe they all suck, he puts them alot of times in position to suck. Joe Beimel cannot be used more than one inning and yet he continues to do it, where invariably Joe blows it the second inning and has an inflated ERA now thanks to Acta. When Julian was pitching well earlier this season he would use him as a situational righty for one batter, when he was clearly able to go for a full inning and was the only reliable one Acta had besides Beimel, to this observer this team's poor play is as much a reflection on Acta's managing as with the talent they have.

[URI]

Nope sorry I do not believe they all suck, he puts them alot of times in position to suck. Joe Beimel cannot be used more than one inning and yet he continues to do it, where invariably Joe blows it the second inning and has an inflated ERA now thanks to Acta. When Julian was pitching well earlier this season he would use him as a situational righty for one batter, when he was clearly able to go for a full inning and was the only reliable one Acta had besides Beimel, to this observer this team's poor play is as much a reflection on Acta's managing as with the talent they have.

Beimel has pitched more than 1 inning three times this year (ie, not continuously)

4/10 vs. the Braves, when he was the 2nd to last one left in the pen, used in extra innings - 1 run.
5/17 vs. the Phillies, and allowed 0 runs
5/19 vs. the Pirates, when he got shelled. But this was the day after the Detwiler start where the entire pen was used to blow the game

Tavarez was released twice last year and had an ERA over 5. Perhaps he was "going good" because Acta not pressing his luck with him.

The Nationals bullpen is awful. Acta's usage isn't really revolutionary, nor is it awful...to blame him for the bullpen is to not realize he's not the one actually throwing the pitches.

There are three pitchers on this whole staff getting any results at all: John Lannan, Ron Villone, and Rigor Martis. That's on Bowden, not on Acta.

[jcd0805]

Beimel has pitched more than 1 inning three times this year (ie, not continuously)

4/10 vs. the Braves, when he was the 2nd to last one left in the pen, used in extra innings - 1 run.
5/17 vs. the Phillies, and allowed 0 runs
5/19 vs. the Pirates, when he got shelled. But this was the day after the Detwiler start where the entire pen was used to blow the game

Tavarez was released twice last year and had an ERA over 5. Perhaps he was "going good" because Acta not pressing his luck with him.

The Nationals bullpen is awful. Acta's usage isn't really revolutionary, nor is it awful...to blame him for the bullpen is to not realize he's not the one actually throwing the pitches.

There are three pitchers on this whole staff getting any results at all: John Lannan, Ron Villone, and Rigor Martis. That's on Bowden, not on Acta.

Oh please I'm not completely blaming him for the bullpen but I am saying there have been MANY times he has tried to out-think situations or not see the light (re: Hanrahan) until far too late. I'm also not saying the bullpen is the sole problem of the Nats-they are atrocious on defense, rarely have the runner going when they have a sure dp hitter at the plate, stop their fastest players on third when there is a 90% chance they make it, I mean just watch their games for any length of time and see if you can continue to sing Acta's praises. I don't have any dog in this fight, I watch the Nats cause Julian is my favorite player and IMO Acta is a horrible manager, and I think his three years of managing there prove my point.

[URI]

Oh please I'm not completely blaming him for the bullpen but I am saying there have been MANY times he has tried to out-think situations or not see the light (re: Hanrahan) until far too late.

You deflected blame from an awful bullpen and put it on Acta's lap.

I'm also not saying the bullpen is the sole problem of the Nats-they are atrocious on defense, rarely have the runner going when they have a sure dp hitter at the plate, stop their fastest players on third when there is a 90% chance they make it, I mean just watch their games for any length of time and see if you can continue to sing Acta's praises.

I've watched about 30 Nationals games this year. I never praised Acta, I said that we don't know how good he is...he's been dealt a really shitty hand. You are correct that his team can't field, and watching this team run the bases should tell you why they don't start the runner more.

Sounds like you have a problem with team construction, and the third base coach...not Acta.

I don't have any dog in this fight, I watch the Nats cause Julian is my favorite player and IMO Acta is a horrible manager, and I think his three years of managing there prove my point.

Yes you do have a dog in this fight. You bitched about Acta in a thread about Clint Hurdle, and mentioned how Tavarez (your favorite player) is being misused by Acta, despite the point that he was released by two major league teams last year. Julian is a bad pitcher, yet you made some nebulous argument that he is the subject of Manny the Town Idiot's Royal Whimsy.

Acta took a team that was supposed to lose over 100 games to 73 wins in his first year as managing. He took a team last year that could have been historically bad to 59 wins.

He'll probably lose his job, because that's what baseball does, but not winning with this Nationals team isn't indicative of his ability to manage. Casey Stengal lost a lot with the Braves, Dodgers and Mets. Terry Francona brought his career record over .500 the year before he won his second World Series. Joe Torre made the playoffs once in 15 years he managed before 1996. The Nationals make him look stupid, not the other way around.

[jcd0805]

Yes you do have a dog in this fight. You bitched about Acta in a thread about Clint Hurdle, and mentioned how Tavarez (your favorite player) is being misused by Acta, despite the point that he was released by two major league teams last year. Julian is a bad pitcher, yet you made some nebulous argument that he is the subject of Manny the Town Idiot's Royal Whimsy.

Really a discussion about Manny Acta isn't worth this much effort, I also said he misused Beimel, who isn't my favorite player, but whatever. I don't know why you can't accept the fact that I think after watching almost every game that Acta is a bad manager, there are many more points I could make as to why I feel that way but you obviously think it is the team, and not the manager. I don't agree. Oh and FWIW, Tavarez had an ERA below 4.00 for Atlanta the second half of last year, he did a good job for them.

[URI]

Really a discussion about Manny Acta isn't worth this much effort, I also said he misused Beimel, who isn't my favorite player, but whatever.

He didn't misuse him to the extent you said.

You can actually make the argument that he didn't get misused at all, considering you mentioned him being one of the only reliable arms in the pen and the starters not staying in the game long enough to have the luxury of using Beimel optimally. You'd have to either carry a 10 man pen, or come up with Nu-Marshall to pitch.

I don't know why you can't accept the fact that I think after watching almost every game that Acta is a bad manager

I accept that. And I disagree. We are having a discussion about this, which is appropriate considering this is a discussion board.

Also, you are wrong. I accept it, but you are wrong. There is no way to know if Acta is a bad manager or if he's just in a really shitty situation. Check the post above when I listed a few managers that started out as bad as Acta.

there are many more points I could make as to why I feel that way but you obviously think it is the team, and not the manager. I don't agree.

Make your points. So far you haven't made many to isolate why Manny Acta should actually be ritualistically slaughtered as a sacrifice to our God (he looks like Spaghetti Jimmy, actually) for crimes against baseball.

Oh and FWIW, Tavarez had an ERA below 4.00 for Atlanta the second half of last year, he did a good job for them.

Yeah, he did a hell of a job for a 4th place team after being cut by two playoff teams. Two teams in the playoffs would rather pay him to not play for them than have him on the roster.

I suppose I could also outline how ERA is a shitty metric for reliever evaluation, and how the league hit 296/365/486 against him as a Brave (essentially turning the average hitter into Adam Lind or Jason Kubal), and how the Braves used him mostly in low-leverage situations (17 out of 33 appearances) and he still lost 3 games...but that would just be piling on.

TO satisfy your bloodlust though, Randy St Claire was fired, so if the pitching doesn't turn around, Acta will be let go. Then they can bring in someone else to come in to help the Nats reach their potential of losing 110 games rather than 115.

[SeanBerry]

If you are going to fire Acta, that's fine.

It's also not important.

The key is who replaces. The Nats should (and we all know they won't because they are the Nats) just go totally young in every respect and make the tea basically a AAAA team and get the absolute best manager to deal with young players. It may be a current AAA manager. I honestly don't know who. That's probably why they might as well keep him.

But if you are going to lose 110+ games...and this team very well could...why not create a team of prospects? They get shitty attendance and worse ratings now... if any team has to lose, I can't think of it.

[bosox1903]

A big difference between Acta's first year with the Nats and the current season is that in Year 1 Acta was a stickler for the fundamentals. Whether it is because they have signed more free agents over the past two years or not, he has been more lax. This current team is just weak on the basic, fundamental tenets of the game. If it is not the actual errors that do them in, it is the mental errors. There just doesn't seem to be any improvement on that front... see Bard's idiotic reaction to Stammen's wld pitch in tonight's game.

[educatedcheese]

A big difference between Acta's first year with the Nats and the current season is that in Year 1 Acta was a stickler for the fundamentals. Whether it is because they have signed more free agents over the past two years or not, he has been more lax. This current team is just weak on the basic, fundamental tenets of the game. If it is not the actual errors that do them in, it is the mental errors. There just doesn't seem to be any improvement on that front... see Bard's idiotic reaction to Stammen's wld pitch in tonight's game.

This also bothers me far more than any attempt to manage the suck that inhabits the bullpen. This team is alarmingly bad in basic, little league elements of the game -- things that Acta can fix, or at least make an effort to sound exasperated about. No, they're not going to win until they get some pitching, but in the meantime, they can work on Baseball 101. He just doesn't seem to have it in him.

[jcd0805]

This also bothers me far more than any attempt to manage the suck that inhabits the bullpen. This team is alarmingly bad in basic, little league elements of the game -- things that Acta can fix, or at least make an effort to sound exasperated about. No, they're not going to win until they get some pitching, but in the meantime, they can work on Baseball 101. He just doesn't seem to have it in him.

Thank you! This is what I am talking about, URI. Look I am not near as big a fan of baseball as I am of football so I'm not going to quote stats or game by game notes of what he has done and how, but this team is getting WORSE as it goes along, not better. And last week when they played the Mets there were, on consecutive nights, homerun balls that needed, BEGGED, to be argued about and Manny sat in the dugout doing a whole bunch of nothing. The second one, after the umpires reviewed and still called it a homerun, Adam Dunn was out there clearly telling the umpire the ball never hit the Subway sign and Manny still just sat in the dugout, letting his outfielder who was the one with the clearest view of it try to argue his case. Ok argue may be too strong a work because Adam Dunn doesn't seem to get too fired up, but still the least he could have done was come out and see what the heck Adam was trying to tell the umpire and make sure he didn't get fired up and thrown out of the game, but he sat there and watched Adam with the rest of us. He just seems, TO ME, like a bad manager. And don't make fun of Jools' time with the Braves, no matter the place a team is in a pitcher still has to go out there and get outs, and he did for them, because Bobby Cox is a good manager (ok I have no idea about that but he did seem to really like Julian )

[URI]

Thank you! This is what I am talking about, URI. Look I am not near as big a fan of baseball as I am of football so I'm not going to quote stats or game by game notes of what he has done and how, but this team is getting WORSE as it goes along, not better.

It shows that you like football more than baseball. Acta can drill fundamentals all he wants, but this is major league baseball. It's very hard for a manager to drill fundamentals into players that won't listen to him.

You don't learn shit like this at the major league level (or if you do, it's rare). Adam Dunn can take fungos literally for hours before every game. He's still going to be a shitty fielder.

And last week when they played the Mets there were, on consecutive nights, homerun balls that needed, BEGGED, to be argued about and Manny sat in the dugout doing a whole bunch of nothing. The second one, after the umpires reviewed and still called it a homerun, Adam Dunn was out there clearly telling the umpire the ball never hit the Subway sign and Manny still just sat in the dugout, letting his outfielder who was the one with the clearest view of it try to argue his case.

Which were these? Like who hit them, because the Mets had like 5 challenges over 6 games last week and I don't recall these situations. I would have to see them myself to see if Acta had his head up his ass or if he just didn't think they were challengable.

Ok argue may be too strong a work because Adam Dunn doesn't seem to get too fired up

Oh.

but still the least he could have done was come out and see what the heck Adam was trying to tell the umpire and make sure he didn't get fired up and thrown out of the game, but he sat there and watched Adam with the rest of us.

Did Dunn get thrown out?

He just seems, TO ME, like a bad manager.

Yes. He seems, TO ME, like he manages three years of a bad fucking team. Like one that would bring in a bunch of outfielders when you needed a 2nd baseman and have no bullpen/rotation. Like the one that loses it's GM right before the season starts because he was indicted. Like the kind of organization that would have a different fanbase watch them because they are so fucked up.

And don't make fun of Jools' time with the Braves, no matter the place a team is in a pitcher still has to go out there and get outs, and he did for them, because Bobby Cox is a good manager (ok I have no idea about that but he did seem to really like Julian )

Cox hardly used "Jools" in high leverage situations. He used him in places where it didn't matter if the got outs or not because he's not a good pitcher. He wasn't last year, and he's not this year.

If he "liked" Julian, that's completely immaterial. He used him in low leverage situations in over half of his appearances for the Braves, and he turned the average hitter he faced into 09Jason Kubel/09Adam Lind. I'm not making fun of him...I'm recognizing what he is.

Which dovetails nicely with Acta. We have the ability to pull out data, and recognize context to see what Tavarez is. We can't do that with Acta. Remember that the fan bases of the two most successful American League teams over the last 15 years pulled full-class nuttys when they hired Joe Torre and Terry Francona to manage them.

I would stick to football. And learn how to use the enter key.

[URI]

This also bothers me far more than any attempt to manage the suck that inhabits the bullpen. This team is alarmingly bad in basic, little league elements of the game -- things that Acta can fix, or at least make an effort to sound exasperated about. No, they're not going to win until they get some pitching, but in the meantime, they can work on Baseball 101. He just doesn't seem to have it in him.

To get to my point from earlier, you don't backslide like this.

You can't say "Yeah, he really drilled these guys 2 years ago, but now he can't do it"...if he's not doing it now, after he did it then just means that the players don't listen to him, are unable to learn, or Acta just can't mentally, or physically do it.

If they don't listen to him, that's on the organization. If Acta is so beaten down that he has given up...that's on the organization being of a sub-major league level the last few years. If the players just don't learn the "little league stuff" then that just re-enforces what I said earlier and that's not on Acta either.

Manny Acta probably needs to go, because that's how baseball operates. Usually a coach falls, and then if there is no improvement, the manager falls. You can't fire the players (en toto), and the guy making the call on the manager is usually the same guy who forms the roster...he's not going to fire himself. And Acta obviously isn't getting results.

But his time with the Nationals isn't an indictment on his ability to manage in the majors, anymore than Francona's was when he managed the Phillies. That was also a shit organization run by clowns.

[jcd0805]

It shows that you like football more than baseball. Acta can drill fundamentals all he wants, but this is major league baseball. It's very hard for a manager to drill fundamentals into players that won't listen to him.

You don't learn shit like this at the major league level (or if you do, it's rare). Adam Dunn can take fungos literally for hours before every game. He's still going to be a shitty fielder.



Which were these? Like who hit them, because the Mets had like 5 challenges over 6 games last week and I don't recall these situations. I would have to see them myself to see if Acta had his head up his ass or if he just didn't think they were challengable.



Oh.



Did Dunn get thrown out?



Yes. He seems, TO ME, like he manages three years of a bad fucking team. Like one that would bring in a bunch of outfielders when you needed a 2nd baseman and have no bullpen/rotation. Like the one that loses it's GM right before the season starts because he was indicted. Like the kind of organization that would have a different fanbase watch them because they are so fucked up.



Cox hardly used "Jools" in high leverage situations. He used him in places where it didn't matter if the got outs or not because he's not a good pitcher. He wasn't last year, and he's not this year.

If he "liked" Julian, that's completely immaterial. He used him in low leverage situations in over half of his appearances for the Braves, and he turned the average hitter he faced into 09Jason Kubel/09Adam Lind. I'm not making fun of him...I'm recognizing what he is.

Which dovetails nicely with Acta. We have the ability to pull out data, and recognize context to see what Tavarez is. We can't do that with Acta. Remember that the fan bases of the two most successful American League teams over the last 15 years pulled full-class nuttys when they hired Joe Torre and Terry Francona to manage them.

I would stick to football. And learn how to use the enter key.

Wow you are taking my comments way too seriously! Obviously I am not a baseball expert like the majority of this board, but quite honestly reading this board has made me appreciate baseball a whole lot more than I did a few years ago. But I am entitled to my opinion, and it's not in any way shaped by my fondness for Julian because if nothing else I have always realized that Manny probably did do him a favor earlier in the season by only using him for a batter and keeping his ERA down, but he would take him out and then leave his bullpen short, when he was supposed to be his "long" man!" Sorry, nothing you have said has made me believe Manny Acta is a good manager. I watch their games and I just don't see it. Anyhoo you should find the the homeruns from last week that I was talking about and have a look, I would be curious what an "expert's" analysis would be. I just have to say though I watched the Braves last year and after a month or so even the Braves' announcers were commenting on how much Bobby Cox had grown to trust Julian and he had become his go-to guy in the pen, so, yeah, I'm not sure where you are getting your "high leverage/low leverage" information from, but I watched every game and I know what I saw/heard. I don't pretend to think Julian is an elite pitcher, but he was not bad for the Braves, not at all. Oh and to an earlier post, I have no "bloodlust" (a tad dramatic, no?) I had just thought it ironic that Clint Hurdle, after going to the World Series a couple of years ago, was canned when a guy who has never had any success AT ALL with his team remained, and aside from Helton and Holliday I don't recall a whole lot of talent on the Rockies, and yet he won with them. Oh and as for your "this is major league baseball" quote, if practice doesn't work then why on earth does Ryan Howard spend so much time one-on-one practicing his fielding, and if is doesn't help then why has he gotten better? Not gold glove mind you, but he has tried and succeeded, through repetition and drills, at getting better at his position. I cannot believe practice won't make a player, or team, better. And if he is doing the drills the same as before and getting worse results and that means the players are no longer listening to him, isn't that the best example that he really needs to be replaced??