316 replies to this topic

[SoxScout]

Baseball Reference



McAdam wonders if this is because they see Youk moving back to third.

Edited by SoxScout, 24 March 2006 - 04:52 PM.

[Jinhocho]

Says WEEI

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Wow.

He was put on waivers?

[Quintanariffic]

Per WEEI.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like the use of the word "per" better than "says", so I'm throwing my considerable weight behind this thread.

[Todd Benzinger]

An interesting move. Doesn't speak well for the FOs view of Lowell... or of JT Snow, since we now have two lefty 1Bs.

The roster crunch is intense all of the sudden, but the team is getting better. If they go with Hee Seop and Youks (3B) will they cut Lowell? I sorta hope so...

what's the latest on Hee Seop'd defense? I've heard that it's great, and terrible. Defensive stats seem particularly useless for 1Bs, because if range mattered, Millar would've been a great 1B. Anyone have the Fielding Bible in hand?

Edited by Todd Benzinger, 24 March 2006 - 04:57 PM.

[Rudy Pemberton]

Sweet, gives the team a TON of options. Lowell stinks? Choi and Youks are your 1b and 3b. This is HUGE.

[templeUsox]

His 2006 PECOTA #1 comp season is David Ortiz's 2003. That could have raised some eyebrows in the FO.

Edited by templeUsox, 24 March 2006 - 04:56 PM.

[smastroyin]

I like the use of the word "per" better than "says", so I'm throwing my considerable weight behind this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I combined the threads rather than delete one.

I'm happy with this deal. Choi is a good insurance policy against Lowell not performing. The question is whether he has options. If he has to be on the ML team, then who goes. I could look this up but I'm about to get out of here.

[Quintanariffic]

that htread has the navel gazing zingers, this one the stats.

An interesting move. Doesn't speak well for the FOs view of Lowell... or of JT Snow, since we now have two lefty 1Bs.

The roster crunch is intense all of the sudden, but the team is getting better. If they go with Hee Seop and Youks (3B) will they cut Lowell? I sorta hope so...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While fully understanding the concept of a sunk cost, I can't fathom that they eat the $18MM on Lowell's contract until he's at least had a chance to conclusively prove he's toast by, say, the ASB. That said, this does indicate a lack of faith in the entire 1B/3B grouping, or at least 2 of the 3.

[Rudy Pemberton]

There has to be a trade coming. There's too many major league players with guaranteed contracts on this roster. Graffanino, Youkilis, Cora, Lowell, Pnea, Nixon, etc...something has to be going on.

Edited by Rudy Pemberton, 24 March 2006 - 05:00 PM.

[Pumpsie]

Wow.

There's no stopping this juggernaut.

It will be interesting to see how they play this. Now we have depth everywhere but catcher. Tek has to play a lot. Maybe they'll use someone (Lowell, Snow, Choi) to get a catcher.

[Todd Benzinger]

According to a random article I found via google, he has an option left, and his salary is teeny.

Why the hell release him? So now the Sawks can stash him in AAA? Wow.

http://www.ocregiste...cle_1013435.php

"Choi also has an option remaining and could be sent down to the minors, though he would receive his major-league salary of $725,000"

[Dennis Upperdeckersley]

This just flashed on ESPNNews. Wow. Will the next shoe drop soon?

[xjack]

I'm so excited about this move. He's not the defender that JT Snow is, but he's definitely above average with the glove, and I really think he has the potential to become a .260-25-80 guy with the bat if given regular playing time against RHPs. Which could happen if Lowell continues to suck.

[PedroSpecialK]

Sweet, gives the team a TON of options. Lowell stinks? Choi and Youks are your 1b and 3b. This is HUGE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great point. I've like Choi for a while, and he's played pretty well in his career against righties; certainly well enough to avoid being put on waivers so that his position can be taken by Olmedo Saenz or Nomar Garciaparra.

Choi v. righties career: .250/.353/.455, with most of those ABs coming in Dolphin Stadium and Chavez Ravine. I really, really like this pickup.

[Todd Benzinger]

While fully understanding the concept of a sunk cost, I can't fathom that they eat the $18MM on Lowell's contract until he's at least had a chance to conclusively prove he's toast by, say, the ASB.  That said, this does indicate a lack of faith in the entire 1B/3B grouping, or at least 2 of the 3.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like you don't really accept the implications of a sunk cost. The 18M is gone. Making sure he's toast for half a season only worsens the waste of resources.

[Lucen]

I love the depth and flexibility this provides. They should cut Snow though... he's obviously redundant at this point. Sure, I don't think either Youks or Choi can match his glove, but three 1st basemen is a bit much, even if Youks can move to 3rd. I do love the Lowell insurance though. If he doesn't work out, they can drop him on the bench and still have productive players on each corner. Great pick up. I guess this ends any discussion about Carlos Pena.

[yecul]

That's impressive. If he has an option left, then I doubt they will be cutting anyone and he will start out in AAA. Snow would be the one to dump at this point. He had been passed up by quite a few teams to end up with the Red Sox.

[OCD SS]

It has been my impression that Snow has been getting by on his defensive reputation; I'm still waiting for my copy of the fielding bible, but Choi has an excellent defensive rep.

He has good plate discipline and power in a long, lefty swing. He also has options, so he could be stashed in AAA for a little while to see if Snow can be moved.

I was hoping the Sox would trade for him, picking him up for nothing is fantastic.

[Todd Benzinger]

SO does he have an option left? if so, why the hell did LA release him?

Also, am I right in assuming that he had to be passed up by all the non-playoff teams before reaching the Sox?

[SawxSince67]

ESPN Player Page (2004 scouting):

Hee-Seop Choi
Height: 6-5
Weight: 240 lbs.

Stick:

Choi has a superb eye and only when badly fooled does the big guy swing at a bad pitch. That said, he has a lot of holes in his swing.

Glove:

His hands are soft and his footwork around the firstbase bag is excellent.



6'5", soft hands...yummy!

[Quintanariffic]

Here's a good discussion of Choi from a Dodger fan site:

Dodger Math Q&A on Choi

Regarding Choi's defense, from the link above:

Most defensive metrics tag Choi as an average defensive first baseman. Classic fielding metrics like fielding percentage and range factor really like Choi. He contributed a a .997 fielding percentage in 2005 (third among first basemen who played at least 600 innings) and a 10.29 range factor (also third). The modern measures of defense like Choi less, but still put him in the serviceable range. In 2005, he had a 95 rate2 (100 is average), -4 fielding runs against average (zero is average), an .854 zone rating (20th amongst first baseman with 600 innings) and he ranked ninth in probabilistic model of range for first baseman. Choi doesn’t deserve a gold glove, but he isn’t the klutz that he is portrayed as.

Edited by Quintanariffic, 24 March 2006 - 05:17 PM.

[The Boomer]

I'm so excited about this move. He's not the defender that JT Snow is, but he's definitely above average with the glove, and I really think he has the potential to become a .260-25-80 guy with the bat if given regular playing time against RHPs. Which could happen if Lowell continues to suck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He has so much plate discipline that, if he hits .260, his OBP might still be in the .380-.400 range. His upside would be a good fielding but slightly less potent offensive verion of Big Papi. His offensive downside would be the good or bad Bellhorn but much cheaper. Given his age and experience (and the move to a better hitter's park and league), he more likely could be a more powerful firstbase version of Mueller who makes less contact. The FO is moving to make this team younger. Before the end of this season, I believe we will see that their best lineup has Youks and Cho on the corners.

[Manchild84]

Love this move... between him and Wily Mo, that's two players who I always target in Baseball Mogul.... so he has that going for him.
Maybe the Lowell trade talks that were rumoured when he first got to Boston are starting to heat up again.
Who knows.

[SawxSince67]

Some more confirmation:

http://dodgerthought...alltoaster.com/

Interesting comments on that blog--apparently he's been a source of great debate. SOSH is mentioned as well.

[Quintanariffic]

Sounds like you don't really accept the implications of a sunk cost. The 18M is gone. Making sure he's toast for half a season only worsens the waste of resources.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You cut bait in March or April with a guy making short money. Doing so for a guy with Lowell's contract and upside (as evidenced by his past performance) is nonsense.

[Drek717]

When did he even get put on waivers?

Whatever, puts a smile on my face, he's a damn good bat to add to the corner infield situation. If he's got an option though I think he has to go down at least to start the season. Hopefully all four (Snow, Youks, Lowell, and Choi) perform and we have more trade chips come the deadline.

[941827]

It has been my impression that Snow has been getting by on his defensive reputation; I'm still waiting for my copy of the fielding bible, but Choi has an excellent defensive rep. 

He has good plate discipline and power in a long, lefty swing.  He also has options, so he could be stashed in AAA for a little while to see if Snow can be moved.

I was hoping the Sox would trade for him, picking him up for nothing is fantastic.

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The only reason you don't dump Snow now is that you want Choi to get some ABs in the minors. Having Choi collecting dust on the bench won't do anyone any favors.

However, Snow is Olerud '05/Mientkiewicz '04. He can be jetissoned as soon as a better option is available (i.e., once the Sox think they can find ABs for Choi in the majors).

I suppose this ends any talk of a Carlos Pena acquisition . . . NTTAWWD.

Edited by 941827, 24 March 2006 - 05:20 PM.

[Lucen]

His offensive downside would be the good or bad Bellhorn but much cheaper. Given his age and experience (and the move to a better hitter's park and league), he more likely could be a more powerful firstbase version of Mueller who makes less contact.  The FO is moving to make this team younger.  Before the end of this season, I believe we will see that their best lineup has Youks and Cho on the corners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with that last line completely, and I'd love to be right. But I have to ask about the Bellhorn comp that I bolded. Do you mean the 2005 Bellhorn, or the 2004 version? Because if the 2004 version of Bellhorn is his offensive downside, I'm giddy all over, heh.

[OCD SS]

If Choi can make his way into the lineup he gives us a LH version of Youks; from a lineup construction veiw this lets Tito alternate Youks - Choi - Lorreta across the bottom/top of the order and still string together a staggering OBP threat in front of Manny/Tiz.

[Dennis Upperdeckersley]

BP has Choi projected very well for 2006. An OPS of .854 with a 17.6 VORP. Certainly better than our current options at 1B. They go into saying that he had been greatly mishandled by Tracy in LA and hoping that the next team would get it right.

[Todd Benzinger]

You cut bait in March or April with a guy making short money.  Doing so for a guy with Lowell's contract and upside (as evidenced by his past performance) is nonsense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you believe that the past performance is still likely to be indicative of future results, sure you wait.

But if you have an option that is likely to come close to Lowell's good past results (Choi), and you are convinced that Lowell has lost something and is highly unlikely to return to form, it is a waste of resources to keep trotting him out there and keep Choi in AAA and Pena on the bench.

I have no idea what the FO thinks, but the fact that Lowell has sucked for 1.5 years and looks "cooked" to observers of his ST performance suggest to me that he ain't coming back.

The FO may not agree, and it is reasonable expect him to improve. My point is that IF you believe he's cooked (and I personally do), it is only a further waste of resources to keep playing him until the ASB.

[Fenway Frank]

Red Sox claim 1B Choi off waivers from Dodgers
March 24, 2006
FORT MYERS, FLORIDA (TICKER) -- The Boston Red Sox added some more depth to their bench Friday, claiming first baseman Hee-Seop Choi off waivers from the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Choi, who was a key contributor in Korea's surprise run to the semifinals of the World Baseball Classic, hit .253 with a career-high 15 homers and 42 RBI in 133 games for the Dodgers in 2005.

The 27-year-old made just two errors in 762 chances for a .997 fielding percentage, second among NL first baseman. Boston signed six-time Gold Glove Award winner J.T. Snow in the offseason to back up unproven Kevin Youkilis at first base.

source: http://sports.yahoo....ov=st&type=lgns

[Lucen]

You cut bait in March or April with a guy making short money.  Doing so for a guy with Lowell's contract and upside (as evidenced by his past performance) is nonsense.

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With Choi on the roster, I'd have no problem cutting Lowell if he's absolutely awful through the end of May or so. I might want to wait a few weeks longer, but still... well before the ASB. But, again, only if he's downright awful all season up to that point. If he's not, then the worst problem you have is platooning Youks and Choi and giving Youks the occassional start at 3rd to rest Lowell. Not a bad possition to be in. I really love this aquisition. I think I like it more than the Pena trade. They got him for nothing and he's probably going to contribute more to the 2006 team. :: big grin ::

[Philip Jeff Frye]

While I'm the first to give Theo the benefit of the doubt on matters like this and I certainly like the idea of a fallback plan on Lowell, the optimism on this board so far about this move is astonishing. This will be the fourth team this guy is on in the last three years and he's been a disappointment in all three stops so far. Not exactly an encouraging sign.

[Bowlerman9]

Let's just hope Choi doesn't turn into Petagine 2.0

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, he'll be under our control for 4 more years (assuming he gets optioned for the first month of the year). He'll get playing time eventually.

[The Boomer]

If Choi can make his way into the lineup he gives us a LH version of Youks; from a lineup construction veiw this lets Tito alternate Youks - Choi - Lorreta across the bottom/top of the order and still string together a staggering OBP threat in front of Manny/Tiz.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Choi's realistic worst case IMO is the 2004 Bellhorn with a truly disastrous downside of 2005 Bellhorn. However, the former is more likely than the latter given his age and upside. Also, for $750,000, this is another of those no lose deals because, for the money, he is more cost effective than 2005 Bellhorn and what is predicted for 2006 Snow.

I've been waiting to see if he or Carlos Pena with the Tigers would also get released this spring and expected the Sox to grab one or the other. Despite Pena's local connection, I like Choi better. Besides, with just W M Pena, the Sox avoid Pena envy. Usually it's satisfying to hold onto just one big Pena. Two can cause problems. You heard it here first: Choi will have a better season at 1B with the Sox than Nomar will with the Dodgers for less than 10% what Nomar will be paid.

The upside for Pena and Choi combined (both acquired in less than 1 week) could be 70-80 homers combined in a single season.

Edited by The Boomer, 24 March 2006 - 05:30 PM.

[CarboCopy]

Here's a good discussion of Choi from a Dodger fan site:

Dodger Math Q&A on Choi

Regarding Choi's defense, from the link above:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting. Sounds like he was cut to make room for Nomar. Nice to see that we're still getting dividends on that trade.

As for why people are giddy, he's young, he's cheap, and he can probably outproduce Lowell and Snow. As someone mentioned above, it's all about flexibility.

[Marbleheader]

I'm not sure that The FO's impression of Snow or Lowell had much to do with this move. It seems like a no-brainer, and I'm very surprised he wasn't picked up before the Sox got a crack at him. Snow is the obvious odd-man out, and putting Choi in AAA just to hold on to Snow would not make much sense.

I love this pick up, and envision that by May, Youks will be starting at 3rd and Lowell will be a bat off the bench and used in games vs. LH pitching with Youks shifting to 1st. I still hold out hope that Lowell can contribute, but he hasn't done much to dispel the notion that he's cooked.

[drtooth]

No news on the Dodger site however if you click on the 40 man roster and then click Choi, his bio appears with the Red Sox logo and background.

Link

[Joe D Reid]

While I'm the first to give Theo the benefit of the doubt on matters like this and I certainly like the idea of a fallback plan on Lowell, the optimism on this board so far about this move is astonishing.  This will be the fourth team this guy is on in the last three years and he's been a disappointment in all three stops so far.  Not exactly an encouraging sign.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It all depends on your expectations. Choi is in a lot of ways the anti-Adrian Gonzalez, or the anti-WMP. People on the board (especially VAL, who's made some great posts) have talked about how we seem to have been targeting high-SLG, low-OBP guys recently. Choi put up a .388 OBP in a pitcher's park in 2004. Even if he never turns into a traditional power threat, he gives us a great source of OBP off the bench.

Of course you'd like them to get guys with high OBPs and high SLGs, but those guys are rare and expensive. The FO has again found a guy who has a well-defined, above-average skill, and who should help the team. And all for the price of a waiver claim plus $750K.

Edited by Joe D Reid, 24 March 2006 - 05:31 PM.

[Vermonter At Large]

Wow. MLB.com already has him on the Boston Roster. When did this deal go down?

[OCD SS]

Of course you'd like them to get guys with high OBPs and high SLGs, but those guys are rare and expensive.  The FO has again found a guy who has a well-defined, above-average skill, and who should help the team.  And all for the price of a waiver claim plus $750K.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like Pena, Choi has pretty good ISO:

'03: .203
'04: .198
'05: .200

That he has an excellent batting eye to go with it is another bonus.

[Todd Benzinger]

putting Choi in AAA just to hold on to Snow would not make much sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will find it so annoying WHEN they do that.

Edited by Todd Benzinger, 24 March 2006 - 05:40 PM.

[Fenway Frank]

Sox Press Release: http://boston.redsox...t=.jsp&c_id=bos

[Vermonter At Large]

I really like his hit charts. His power is primarily to right-center, but he appears to use the whole field and is primarily a line drive hitter. The really good news is that he can hit long ball the other way, and did so fairly well in Wrigley which is really the only park he's played in that has a short left field. In other words, he seems to be made to play in Fenway.

His hitting rates are good, except for a low singles rate. I think a lot of baseball observers can't see beyond his low BA, but he has great walk rates, and good line drive power.

I think the main rub against him has been consistency, but I'm not sure how to judge that given his spotty playing time.

I can't find much not to love about H.S. Choi from his charts and numbers.

[URI]

Something to remember about Choi:

*In 2004, he was the Marlins 2nd best hitter at the time of the trade
*He was one of the better hitters on the Cubs before he got smoked by Kerry Wood
*He wasn't so good after either of those incedents

Love acquasition though. I would buy it dinner, and then make sweet baseball love to it and then call it the next day if it was so inclined. Might wait until Tuesday or Wednesday.