927 replies to this topic

[DLew On Roids]

Positive steroid test results

* First positive test result: 50 game suspension
* Second positive test result: 100 game suspension
* Third positive test result: lifetime ban

All suspensions are without pay.

It's Steroids.

That's from Wikipedia, right? Wouldn't be surprised if steroids and PEDs were conflated in that article.

Edit: Forget it, that's what the MLB policy says, too.

Edited by DLew On Roids, 07 May 2009 - 11:50 AM.

[Yazdog8]

I'm somewhat intrigued for that failed drug test list to come out.

Once A-Rod came out, they should have made it public. If it turns out that Manny was on the list, the predicted slow leak that will do more harm will be reality. I think it was a huge mistake for Bud not to follow the Mitchell Report and just grant amnesty in the interest of getting better testing and moving forward, but that's our commish.

[Myt1]

I'm sorry, but if thats the spin, I'm not buying it. Especially if its coming out of Scott Boras's mouth. MLB suspends almost no one. When they do, I'm pretty confident they got a doing SOMETHING wrong. (and incredibly stupid, but I digress)

So then why don't we wait to see what comes out of MLB's mouth?

[tmorgan]

I'm surprised we haven't heard where this doctor was. When saw the story I immediately thought- Dominican doctor during the off season. Different drug names, sketchy reasons for the prescription in the first place, that would seem to be a pretty likely scenario to me.

[CaptainLaddie]

I'm not defending him. I wanna hear if they say exactly what he got busted for before fetching the pitchfork and gasoline.

NO! WE SHOULD TAR AND FEATHER BEFORE WE HEAR ALL THE INFORMATION.

[RingoOSU]

That's from Wikipedia, right? Wouldn't be surprised if steroids and PEDs were conflated in that article.

Sorry DLew I found a better source later down.

[CrackpotTheory]

That's from Wikipedia, right? Wouldn't be surprised if steroids and PEDs were conflated in that article.

I don't know. It's wikipedia. Anyone can edit it, so you're assued of getting the best possible info there.

[moondog80]

Question: since suspensions are unpaid, does Boras lose 50/162 of his cut? This, we can all agree, would be a beautiful thing.

[CzarAlexander]

We all guessed ADD at some point.

And he changed his prescription and didn't check the banned substances list? I mean, people fuck up all the time (including me) but it seems rather strange that this would be the case. Until he comes out with the name of the drug, everyone is going to assume that it was a steroid and every reasonable inference will go against Manny in the court of public opinion.

Either way, the Boston conspiracy theorists will be out in full force and this will be another book on the shelf of the Red Sox's recent "luck" (not signing Tex, A-Rod, et al.)

[mabrowndog]

I don't understand why he would do this if he could put up a prescription and have a doctor's "testimony." Wouldn't all of this be good stuff with a reasonable chance of getting the suspension flipped?

Manny simply didn't want to put up with being grilled by MLB...



Thanks... All week... Veal... etc....

[CaptainLaddie]

Manny simply didn't want to put up with being grilled by MLB...



Thanks... All week... Veal... etc....

Well played sir.

[DieHardSoxFan1]

Are you kidding? I like Manny but I'm certainly not infatuated with him. That's just stupid; don't put words into my mouth, just shut up. Rocco hates Manny; he will fully admit to this.

Calm down. For someone who merely "likes" Manny, you're certainly expending a lot of energy in this thread defending him.

As with A-Rod, it's a bad day for baseball.

[Red PR]

Off topic in a sense but this in a way takes some pressure off A-Roid. Now we have another active HOF candidate in the steroid mix.

[keving18]

I mean, really. I don't get the lovefest on Manny. Isn't this the same guy who deliberately tanked plays last year to get out of honoring his contract in full and putting the Red Sox in an extremely awkward position? Tanking plays for selfish reasons is one of the worst sins a player can commit.

And if he has ADHD and he needed meds to control it, and the meds he needs is on the banned list and he didn't petition the league for an exception...well, that's beyond stupid.

Edited by keving18, 07 May 2009 - 11:51 AM.

[Nator]

Kapow!

Beautifully done.

This sucks. It's surprising, yet not surprising at the same time, regarding Manny.

As far as that last thatkid post, I think he wanted to get banned.

[CaptainLaddie]

Calm down. For someone who merely "likes" Manny, you're certainly expending a lot of energy in this thread defending him.

As with A-Rod, it's a bad day for baseball.

Hardly defending him. I'm reporting what ESPN is saying mostly and saying "we should probably wait to find out what he was suspended for".

[WayBackVazquez]

Well for one the bodybuilding community has found HGH to be extremely powerful (I'll leave the most powerful PED debate alone).
The Bodybuilding community is (and prob always will be) light yrs ahead of doctors and nutritionists when it comes to PED's, diet & excercise etc. so based on their view of it I would say the shit works.

Bodybuilding is not about strength, it's about muscle size and definition. There is no debate that it is effective for those purposes. But doctors got before congress and testified that there is no credible scientific evidence that HGH substantively increases muscle strength or aerobic exercise capacity. Great for picking up chicks maybe, but not hitting home runs.

[Rudy Pemberton]

I find it hard to believe, albeit not impossible, that Boras and his agency aren't aware of what these guys are doing. Isn't Boras heavily involved in nearly everything his clients are doing in regards to training and all that? Wouldn't he be advising his clients on this kinds of stuff so that they aren't "accidentally" taking banned substances? It sounds like a naive excuse for someone that is a part of that operation...or is there just a "don't want to know" policy that the agents adopt?

[mt8thsw9th]

I don't know. It's wikipedia. Anyone can edit it, so you're assued of getting the best possible info there.

True.

http://en.wikipedia....id_test_results

Positive steroid test results

* First positive test result: 50 game suspension
* Second positive test result: 100 game suspension
* Third positive test result: lifetime ban

All suspensions are without pay. In addition, a suspended player can be replaced on the active roster by another player. If a player is on the disabled list, the suspension is served while on the disabled list. In cases in which a team does not have appropriate 40-man roster space, Kitchkinet and Imgran, head of MLB's steroid taskforce, will help teams with affected rosters set up steroid exemptions.

Edited by mt8thsw9th, 07 May 2009 - 11:52 AM.

[Drocca]

Hardly defending him. I'm reporting what ESPN is saying mostly and saying "we should probably wait to find out what he was suspended for".

Did you reserve all your judgments on AROD until his press conference?

[jacklamabe65]

Is Papi next?

[Deathofthebambino]

NO! WE SHOULD TAR AND FEATHER BEFORE WE HEAR ALL THE INFORMATION.

Personally, I'm done waiting for all of the information for Mr. Ramirez. For years, every time someone uttered anything derogatory about him on these boards, it was "we don't know the truth," "we aren't in the clubhouse," "that's second hand information..." And on and on. Stand up guys like Gordon Edes have been ripped for writing columns that dared to disparage the great Manuel, and yet, nearly everything that's ever been said or written about him (ie. tanking a season, faking injuries, fucking up the clubhouse, pushing down old men, etc.) have been proven dead right.

I have no doubt that this will also be proven accurate, regardless of what Mr. Boras tells us. MLB isn't in the habit of suspending it's superstars for no reason. I've heard all I'm going to here, and at this point, I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh.

[keving18]

Bodybuilding is not about strength, it's about muscle size and definition. There is no debate that it is effective for those purposes. But doctors got before congress and testified that there is no credible scientific evidence that HGH substantively increases muscle strength or aerobic exercise capacity. Great for picking up chicks maybe, but not hitting home runs.

Ahem. Aren't you kind of missing the point? Or are you suggesting there's no relationship between strength and muscle mass?

[bosockboy]

If I'm a Dodger fan, I'm furious right now. Just furious. Forget what and why and all that crap, 50 games is a shitload of games.

It does suck for them, but they are winning that division regardless..it might be by 6 games instead of 12. From a Dodger standpoint, you also have to think Boras will have no choice but to exercise that player option.

[kazuneko]

I mean, really. I don't get the lovefest on Manny. Isn't this the same guy who deliberately tanked plays last year to get out of honoring his contract in full and putting the Red Sox in an extremely awkward position? Tanking plays for selfish reasons is one of the worst sins a player can commit.

Isn't this the same guy who was the Most Valuable Player of a World Series, which - correct me if I'm wrong here - it had been quite a while since the Red Sox had seen?

Amazing how quickly people forget.

They were all on steroids. As far as I'm concerned, David Ortiz' comment about players who took steroids after 2004 is a tacit admission.

Edited by kazuneko, 07 May 2009 - 11:55 AM.

[Apisith]

Did you reserve all your judgments on AROD until his press conference?

Does that matter? He's doing the right thing here, isn't he? If he rushed to judged ARod then that's a mistake but that has no relevance to whether him reserving judgement now is right or wrong.

[esaslaw]

I mean, really. I don't get the lovefest on Manny. Isn't this the same guy who deliberately tanked plays last year to get out of honoring his contract in full and putting the Red Sox in an extremely awkward position? Tanking plays for selfish reasons is one of the worst sins a player can commit.

And if he has ADHD and he needed meds to control it, and the meds he needs is on the banned list and he didn't petition the league for an exception...well, that's beyond stupid.

Exactly.

I do not want any clouds on 2004 or 2007, but I don't see why there would be. It was last year that he appeared to be hurt, then got traded, then hit as if he was Babe Ruth.

And really, who do you want on your team? Jason Bay or Manny Ramirez?

[WayBackVazquez]

Ahem. Aren't you kind of missing the point? Or are you suggesting there's no relationship between strength and muscle mass?

Ahem, yes, that is exactly what I'm STATING, not suggesting, in this context. Before you try to be clever, why don't you read some of the testimony, or like ONE study.

[JBill]

I mean, really. I don't get the lovefest on Manny. Isn't this the same guy who deliberately tanked plays last year to get out of honoring his contract in full and putting the Red Sox in an extremely awkward position? Tanking plays for selfish reasons is one of the worst sins a player can commit.

And if he has ADHD and he needed meds to control it, and the meds he needs is on the banned list and he didn't petition the league for an exception...well, that's beyond stupid.

What "lovefest"? Can't people say they're shocked, or disappointed? Everyone invested a lot of years with Manny, they have a right to react whichever way they want in the minutes after they find out he was suspended 50 games. I don't know what reaction you're looking for.

[LoweSox]

This was totally disheartening, and I just heard about it in the last twenty minutes (even while being on the internet all morning). From a *fantasy* perspective, I did have him in the only league where money was involved, but whatever. I'm making trade offers for him in a keeper league, and going to jump all over him when he hits the waiver wire. Because I'm in the camp that this positive wasn't for a drug of the significant PE variety, and won't throw Gammons under the bus for wanting to support him as well.

But whatever. I've always been defensive to everyone who didn't like Manny's 'attitude' while completely ignoring his workout regimen, let alone his WAR. It's one thing to say you're not surprised, another to say you're actually happy about it. To the latter, you can still kindly fuck off.

While I'm going to believe in the early going of this story that Manny really has taken drug tests in recent history and passed them (seriously, just make the whole process public rather than leaving everyone to speculate), if it was legitimate and consistent with a longer practice this a sad thing for the Red Sox as well. I won't be naive and say the organization had to be 100% clean, but it's a lot more enjoyable when it was Eric Gagne.

[shawnrbu]

Plaschke calls Manny a druggie.

[ichirob4ichiro]

Is Papi next?

Papi clearly isn't taking any PEDs...Or if his is, he should really up to dosage.

[CaptainLaddie]

Did you reserve all your judgments on AROD until his press conference?

We found out very shortly after it came out that he was testing positive for steroids.

[bosockboy]

Question: since suspensions are unpaid, does Boras lose 50/162 of his cut? This, we can all agree, would be a beautiful thing.

Great question. I imagine he keeps his cut since Manny is at fault here, not him.

[pokey_reese]

I admit, I wasn't happy with the end of Manny's stay here, and I loved the Bay trade, but this is still bumming me out more than I thought it would. I remember trying to explain my love of baseball to my girlfriend, and finally I got on the computer and showed her videos of Manny and Griffey swinging away. I told her that I was showing her one lefty, and one righty, and that they were the two best hitters of my lifetime, and that they had done it clean, because they had such perfect, beautiful swings that they didn't need to cheat. I sat there and kept watching clip after clip, even after she had left. I don't care if ball players are angels or role models. I just want it to be about the baseball. I wanted Manny to be great because he had the best RH swing in a generation.

[RedOctober3829]

I don't feel bad for the guy one bit. If you don't do your due diligence to find out what goes into your body then I don't give a damn if you failed a test. People are saying this is bad for baseball. I think this is good for baseball because it gives an example that not just bit players or minor leaguers will get suspended. If Manny Ramirez is getting suspended, then MLB is doing the right thing. They don't care who you are. If you take a banned substance, it will not get swept under the rug because you are a star. You will be punished just like everyone else. This will only help baseball clean up it's act from the Steroid Era.

Edited by RedOctober3829, 07 May 2009 - 11:57 AM.

[RingoOSU]

From a *fantasy* perspective, I did have him in the only league where money was involved, but whatever.

I hear FW was in a league where you get paid if players get caught roiding.

[JulE6]

Plaschke calls Manny a druggie.

Speaking of jumping to conclusions...good God, how can a paid journalist publicly come out without doing any research and say the things he is?

ETA: I'm fine with forming opinion. It's human nature. But he's speaking like it's fact, and the truth is we know nothing right now. He's (Plaschke) a public figure, and people are going to take him at his word (no matter how legit it is)

Edited by JulE6, 07 May 2009 - 11:57 AM.

[LoweSox]

I would seriously carbomb Bill Plachke right now.

[Mystic Merlin]

I really don't give a shit.

I'm also not getting into a blame game with Yankees fans over this shit. Who cares? Professional athletes use PEDs; that is the reality.

The only things "tainted" are peoples' brains.

[Monkeyhoot]

Personally, I'm done waiting for all of the information for Mr. Ramirez. For years, every time someone uttered anything derogatory about him on these boards, it was "we don't know the truth," "we aren't in the clubhouse," "that's second hand information..." And on and on. Stand up guys like Gordon Edes have been ripped for writing columns that dared to disparage the great Manuel, and yet, nearly everything that's ever been said or written about him (ie. tanking a season, faking injuries, fucking up the clubhouse, pushing down old men, etc.) have been proven dead right.

I have no doubt that this will also be proven accurate, regardless of what Mr. Boras tells us. MLB isn't in the habit of suspending it's superstars for no reason. I've heard all I'm going to here, and at this point, I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh.

Hear, hear. What information could meaningly affect the situation. Forgetting for the moment that Manny has had a nearly permanent pass in some quarters no matter what his behavior, statements, attitude, etc, the simple, undeniable, unambiguous and incontrovertible fact of the matter is that he took a banned substance, so he's gone.

Does it really matter if it was intent to cheat or just brain-numbed stupidity?

[ifmanis5]

Bill Plaschke on now killing Manny and calling him a "knucklehead." Wants the Dodgers to "fire this guy." "Get him out of Dodger uniform, get him out of baseball, he has suckered everyone."

[CaptainLaddie]

Plaschke calls Manny a druggie.

Plaschke is also the posterboy for "bad columnist".

[Rough Carrigan]

I find it hard to believe, albeit not impossible, that Boras and his agency aren't aware of what these guys are doing. Isn't Boras heavily involved in nearly everything his clients are doing in regards to training and all that? Wouldn't he be advising his clients on this kinds of stuff so that they aren't "accidentally" taking banned substances? It sounds like a naive excuse for someone that is a part of that operation...or is there just a "don't want to know" policy that the agents adopt?

Good point. This is the agency that wanted to decide the mechanics of Craig Hansen's pitching motion instead of the Red Sox minor league instructors. It does seem a bit incongruous that they would have no idea about what doctors Manny sees and what prescriptions he gets. Of course, one can easily imagine Manny sort of blowing them off as they call to confirm every little thing for their files.

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Hear, hear. What information could meaningly affect the situation. Forgetting for the moment that Manny has had a nearly permanent pass in some quarters no matter what his behavior, statements, attitude, etc, the simple, undeniable, unambiguous and incontrovertible fact of the matter is that he took a banned substance, so he's gone.

Does it really matter if it was intent to cheat or just brain-numbed stupidity?

Hypothetically: what if it was for Valtrex? Ritalin?

Not saying that's what it was for. Hell, for all we know so far it could well be for Deca. But Would you feel the same way if it was for a VD drug or something?

[keving18]

Isn't this the same guy who was the Most Valuable Player of a World Series, which - correct me if I'm wrong here - it had been quite a while since the Red Sox had seen in some time?

Amazing how quickly people forget.

They were all on steroids. As far as I'm concerned, David Ortiz' comment about players who took steroids after 2004 is a tacit admission.

I haven't forgotten.

I also haven't forgotten Manny made 2 ugly errors in game 1 and was outhit and outfielded by Mark Bellhorn, the real MVP.

Edited by keving18, 07 May 2009 - 11:58 AM.

[JBill]

I'm also not getting into a blame game with Yankees fans over this shit. Who cares? Professional athletes use PEDs; that is the reality.

Yankee fans are totally desperate for anything to distract from the A-Rod circus. This will do nicely.

[CrackpotTheory]

Plaschke is also the posterboy for "bad columnist".

You should wait until his press conference.

[moondog80]

Great question. I imagine he (Boras) keeps his cut since Manny is at fault here, not him.

You might be right. But this isn't a fine where he has to pay back money, this is money withheld. Right? Won't his tax return list 14 mil (or whatever) as his income for this year? Any contract lawyers out there?

[ifmanis5]

Plaschke is also the posterboy for "bad columnist".

He really is.