[TFisNEXT]

0-4 today with three strikeouts and a GIDP. It was against Santana, to be fair, but it doesn't look like things have really improved at all since that HR.

Although I also wonder why Ortiz was playing tonight anyway. You'd think a game against the best lefty in baseball would be a great opportunity to sit Ortiz and start Baldelli.

Yeah not the best game to keep Ortiz in to improve his confidence in. Though you have to wonder if his confidence would have been better if he sat him favor of Rocco....in hindsight (which is always kind of ridiculous) he should have sat.

[Stuart Scott's Lazy Eye]

Yeah not the best game to keep Ortiz in to improve his confidence in. Though you have to wonder if his confidence would have been better if he sat him favor of Rocco....in hindsight (which is always kind of ridiculous) he should have sat.

I realize it's a "lefty vs righty" thing, but to be fair, Baldelli has even worse numbers against Johan than Ortiz. Baldelli is 2 for 16, .125 BA, .301 OPS, and 7 strikeouts.

Ortiz is 2 for 11, 1 home run, .182 BA, .705 OPS, and 4 strike outs.

Both have very SSS, but maybe Tito figured since Ortiz had the better success plus his recent HR, he would be the better option. I can't really blame him.

[paulftodd]

Yeah not the best game to keep Ortiz in to improve his confidence in. Though you have to wonder if his confidence would have been better if he sat him favor of Rocco....in hindsight (which is always kind of ridiculous) he should have sat.

I do not think not getting a hit against one of the best pitchers in baseball affects Ortiz confidence, especially when the umpire is giving the pitcher a boost. It's getting blown away by no namers who throw 88 mph cheese. Also even guys like Johan don't last much past the 6th, and Ortiz can count on 1-2 AB against the BP. It's much easier to hit against these lesser pitchers having 3 AB's under your belt against guy like Johan, than coming off the bench cold to PH.

[biollante]

Getting hits is his only job. If he doesn't do it, then he is being paid for nothing.

[SoxScout]

WHDH is going to air in interview with Ortiz tonight in which he says he came back from the wrist injury too soon last year and he is now in pain and the wrist is clicking again.

[FarvinMoosey]

WHDH is going to air in interview with Ortiz tonight in which he says he came back from the wrist injury too soon last year and he is now in pain and the wrist is clicking again.

If true he needs to be DLed, which all around is the best solution. Allows the team to not burn a roster spot for him to sit there or force Tito to play him. I am certainly not jumping for joy over the idea of Ortiz injured again, but I am happier with that than him falling off a cliff and being a black hole in the lineup and roster.

I wonder how quickly he would land on the 60Day, or really at what point he calls it a season if there is the clicking again.

[NDame616]

Getting hits is his only job. If he doesn't do it, then he is being paid for nothing.

*ding ding ding*
We have a winner

Keeping Ortiz in the lineup as a designated hitter is like keeping Lugo at short as a designated fielder.

Bottom line is our lineup isn't good enough from top to bottom to have our DH hitting .200. Yea, it was all well and good to see Ortiz get that HR and double a few nights ago...but since then he's contined his now impressive season-long slump by going 1-11.

I hope we are all over the warm and fuzzies that his 2-4 game (first multi hit game in about 2 weeks) was and can still look at what the hell to do. At the rate he is going, Ortiz will be batting under .200 on Monday.

Hell at this point I think Anderson can do better than this (no, I'm not suggesting calling him up. I'm just overstating how big the problem is, and how it won't take much to get more production from the DH spot)

[OttoC]

His home run aside, Ortiz has only managed 3 hits and 2 walks since his down-time and has struck out 9 times in 19 at bats. His other 7 outs have all been ground-outs (in fairness, at least two might have been singles had it not been for the shift). If his wrist is bothering him, he needs to have it checked and my suspicion is the this time the doctors will tell him surgery is needed. It's time to find out what Chris Carter can do.

[MoGator71]

Yeah, I'd call up Carter and maybe platoon him with Rocco (or give Lowell the occasional start at DH) and put Ortiz on the DL. Get the damn wrist fixed once and for all and we'll see you next year.

[Chuck Schilling]

With the physical demands of catching a full season in the major leagues, including day games after night games, and the time constraints of managing a pitching staff, something had to give. So sometimes - too often, in the eyes of hitting coach Dave Magadan - Jason Varitek would skip his time in the batting cage before a game.

While Magadan wouldn't divulge how often that was, he did say, "It was enough." Enough that after it happened a couple of times early this season, Magadan had a conversation with Varitek about how crucial that time was, how much it could help him reactivate a batting stroke that fell apart last season.

Globe Notes

We've avoided a Magadan on the hot seat thread so far, but doesn't the above smell of the hitting coach feeling the need to self promote? We've seen little from the press on what the instruction staff has done to bring him around. Searching the local newspapers for articles with both Ortiz's and Magadan's name mentioned in the past 30 days yields very little- back on May 2nd Magadan was quoted in the Globe of his work with Papi:

"I think when you feel like you're getting beat by fastballs, you do one of two things," said hitting coach Dave Magadan. "You can trust yourself and understand that you've got to sit on your backside and be in a ready position to hit and then you'll get to those fastballs. Or what some people do, they end up kind of jumping at the ball, almost cheating to get to balls, then you become susceptible to the offspeed pitch.- May 2nd Globe

Later on, in a May 17th Globe piece, Magadan intimates that it's all in Ortiz's head, that otherwise his swing is wicked pissah:

Though there have clearly been mechanical problems with Ortiz's swing, Magadan said as the slump has continued, the mental side has become as damaging as the physical.

"I think right now probably most of it is mental," Magadan said. "Doesn't matter how much success you've had. It doesn't matter how many All-Star Games you've made. When you're not getting hits and you're feeling like you're not at your best, you're going to press. Right now, I'm real happy with the way he's swinging the bat in batting practice, his work in the cage. Now it's just a matter of taking it from that and allowing it to happen in a game.

And on May 21st, Magadan points the finger at others meddling with Ortiz's approach:

"I think the ability is there," Red Sox hitting coach Dave Magadan said before last night's game, during which Ortiz made him sound like a prophet. "I think the hard part is that because of his personality and the love everybody has for him, everybody is trying to help - players on other teams, coaches on other teams, announcers, bellmen, you name it. And he's so approachable that I think he finds himself [cluttered]. It's just too much information."

I'm not suggesting that Magadan should be shitcanned - he may very well be a good hitting coach. But he seems to be feeling the need to play the PR game at the players' expense.

[Foulkey Reese]

WHDH is going to air in interview with Ortiz tonight in which he says he came back from the wrist injury too soon last year and he is now in pain and the wrist is clicking again.

Makes good sense to keep batting the injured fat guy 3rd every night. Sox are 0-2 with wrists this past off season.

[P'tucket, rhymes with...]

I'm not suggesting that Magadan should be shitcanned - he may very well be a good hitting coach. But he seems to be feeling the need to play the PR game at the players' expense.

If he's been trying to hide an injury from the press, or Ortiz has been trying to hide an injury from the team, I guess I can cut him a little slack for being all over the board on this. And I'm not sure you start putting the hitting coach on the hot seat for one player's demise in any case.

[genoasalami]

Makes good sense to keep batting the injured fat guy 3rd every night. Sox are 0-2 with wrists this past off season.

There had to be an excuse at some point. No one is going to go on the record to say. "Well, he got older, lost his bat speed, and was no longer able to drive the ball. It is a shame, but it does happen." Chances are he will be put on the DL soon because of his "wrist" or they will be forecd to simply because his presence in the lineup is killing them. There is NO WAY a team can keep a #3 hitter/DH in the lineup who is putting up some of the most hideous production numbers EVER SEEN from a full time DH during the first two months of the season. Either, A) we witness one of the most amazing player turnarounds of the season or B) he is put on the DL and makes spot starts when he comes back to prove he can contribute B) Theo makes a trade and the Ortiz era is basically done.

This post has been edited by genoasalami: 24 May 2009 - 09:55 AM

[Robinson Checo]

Is there a possibilty that Ortiz can go visit Ron Jackson for a few days and have Jackson help him with his swing. I recall reading about a week ago that Jackson (and Mike Easler) both said that they knew what was up with Ortiz's swing. Jackson is managing in the Astros system, but if Ortiz was placed on the disabled list, couldn't Oritz take his own personal time to see Jackson (on Jackspn's own time) to see if it would help. I do not see how this would be too different than when Wakefield would meet with the Niekro brothers and discuss throwing the knuckler when Wake was hitting a rough patch? Right now I think the Sox have to look at all options of getting Papi back on track before they commit to trading for an upgrade.

[JulE6]

WHDH is going to air in interview with Ortiz tonight in which he says he came back from the wrist injury too soon last year and he is now in pain and the wrist is clicking again.

Then what is Francona waiting for? Far too often there have been men on base in front of him and he has failed to even move them over, let alone drive them in. There is frankly no excuse for continuing to bat him third, and I think it's bullshit and disgraceful that the only potential reason he's left there is "we owe it to him". I appreciate everything Ortiz has done for the organization, but Jesus, he's not immune from sucking. He's costing the team wins now, and they're not going to be given courtesy wins for what he did in 2004. He's gotta go on the DL or drop in the lineup, there's no excuse for leaving the worst hitter on the team right now #3.

[Rocco Graziosa]

Its to the point now where you need to DL him, move him in the order, ect for HIS sake. This is almost disrespectful to HIM to keep throwing him in the 3 hole when its painfully obvious he has no chance of hitting the ball. I mean are they gonna wait til its July, he's hitting .122, with 1 HR and 6 games back?? The man has pride, let him out of this with some dignity.

[dauber23]

At least this much has to be true--when the Sox play inter-league games on the road, Ortiz has to sit. There is no way Tito should sit either Lowell or Youks to let Papi play 1B and hit the way he is hitting!

[OttoC]

Dwight Evans remarked during today's broadcast that one reason he likes inter-league play is because pitchers bat. After today's performance by Ortiz, one might be forgiven for thinking that the game was being played in an NL park with pitchers batting. The average pitcher there is batting .125/.187/.167/.354, striking out in 36.89% of their at bats. In the six games since returning to the line-up, Ortiz is batting .125/.192/.292/.484, striking out in 45.83% of his at bats. Now, they're headed on the road, where Ortiz has managed a .541 OPS so far this year, for 10 games in 11 days.

[SoxScout]

After another dismal day at the plate, Red Sox hitting coach Dave Magadan admitted that the team is considering moving David Ortiz out of his No. 3 spot in the order and down in the lineup. "I think that's something we're going to discuss," Magadan said after Ortiz went 0-for-5 on Sunday with two strikeouts to lower his average to .195. "We'll probably talk about it on the flight. We want do not only what's best for David but what's best for the team. He's got to be a big part of our offense. By no means do I feel like I feel he's at the end of the rope. He's got a lot of baseball left in him. We have a lot of confidence in him. He's one of our main guys. We have to get him going."

Hallelujah

[Frisbetarian]

Hallelujah

If he really "is now in pain and the wrist is clicking again," per the WHDH interview you mentioned this morning, then moving him in the order won't help at all. Ortiz needs to go on the DL and get healthy/find his swing before he comes back to Boston.

How long before Bonds is mentioned?