647 replies to this topic

[Cuzittt]

DL him, please

Can we all please stop saying the above words as if the Red Sox can just do it. They can't just simply DL Ortiz.

In order for Ortiz to go on the DL... there actually has to be an injury. If there is no injury and Ortiz does not acquiesce to go on the DL (for whatever reason the team conjures up)... well, Ortiz will not be going onto the DL. It is as simple as that. [I don't think the Sox want to put Ortiz on the DL and risk a grievance filed on behalf of Ortiz by the Players Association.]

As always, there are no easy answers to this situation.

[jippaman]

Some of the recent posts are bothering me...actually, more just got me thinking...

As easy it is for us to psychoanalyze players - do they care or don't they? do they dwell on their mistakes and failures or do they blow them off without a thought? do they look angry or sad or ambivalent? - we have to remember that baseball is their job. Like we go to the office to draw up business models or to the hospital to treat patients or the construction site to build towers, we're paid to work, just like Ortiz et al. are paid to show up a the park every day to hit and throw and catch. When Papi fails at his job night after night it's akin to a prosecutor never being able to convict the felon or like a private equity manager unable to ever close a deal. To make matters worse, once you've established a level of performance, could you imagine waking up one morning and not being able to execute your livelihood at the level to which you'd grown accustomed? Whatever the reason - age, injury, personal distress, general health - decline in one's career is scary and worrisome for the individual going through it.

What I'm saying is a clear generalization, for there are plenty of exceptions and myriad examples of our own colleagues, people we know secondhand, and well-known athletes and other celebrities who don't care about anything except collecting the paycheck, regardless of effort or outcome. But do you really think that's the majority of people? I like to think most have pride in their work (no matter what that work entails), and if they aren't good at what they're doing or quickly fail to live up to standards, then they are bothered on some level. My view may be delusional, it may be optimist, it may be downright naive - but before we go criticizing Papi, just think about how it would feel to be him consistently sucking every freaking game (and please, leave the exorbitant salary, etc. - everything but performance on the field - out of the equation; if it helps, go to the other extreme and imagine he were making 80 bucks a day in the Gulf Coast League struggling to feed his wife and kid or something). In short: we all need to keep perspective before we judge.

That's my sermon of the night.

edit: first sentence.

Edited by jippaman, 27 May 2009 - 11:41 PM.

[Ananti]

Can we all please stop saying the above words as if the Red Sox can just do it. They can't just simply DL Ortiz.

In order for Ortiz to go on the DL... there actually has to be an injury. If there is no injury and Ortiz does not acquiesce to go on the DL (for whatever reason the team conjures up)... well, Ortiz will not be going onto the DL. It is as simple as that. [I don't think the Sox want to put Ortiz on the DL and risk a grievance filed on behalf of Ortiz by the Players Association.]

As always, there are no easy answers to this situation.

They can if they really want to. They need to have a private sit down with him and discuss it, and offer him an extra million if they have to, to buy him off so he'll agree to not file a grievance. At this point it's hurting the team and it's hurting him.

If he still can come back, then he needs to work it out and it's going to take some time, if this is it and he's done, he needs to have a graceful exit. He has a legacy in this city, and is getting chipped away at this point chunk by chunk, it's getting to the point where he is going to be remembered for how much he sucked at the end rather than how great he was. That's not in the interest of him, the fans, or the team.

Edited by Ananti, 28 May 2009 - 12:04 AM.

[Cuzittt]

They can if they really want to. They need to have a private sit down with him and discuss it, and offer him an extra million if they have to, to buy him off so he'll agree to not file a grievance. At this point it's hurting the team and it's hurting him.

No, they really can't. Do you honestly think MLB is going to allow a team to buy off a player to put him on the DL?

[I mean, I suppose the Red Sox could extend Ortiz's contract as a proxy for this pay off... but I doubt the Red Sox want to be on the hook for another year of Ortiz. And... MLB still needs to approve the contract.]

The Red Sox have three options if Ortiz is not truly injured/will not agree to the Hellenic Flu.

a) Suck it up and play him less and less. He becomes a very expensive piece of the bench.
b) Trade Him (for probably a pittance)
c) Cut Him (and eat the remainder of his contract).

I am not in disagreement that this situation is hurting the Red Sox. I am not in disagreement that it is hurting Ortiz. But the Red Sox can not wave a magic wand and place him on the DL without either Ortiz's permission or a definitive injury.

[Ananti]

Again, none of the reason you raised prevents them from getting it done. It's all a matter of how much will there is to get it done.

It sucks for everyone, but it's the FO's job to make the hard call. They have a duty to the other 24 members on the team, and the millions who buy tickets and watch them on TV, to put the team in the best position to win.

[Carlos Cowart]

No, they really can't.

Yes, they absolutely can and formerly-productive guys get DLed with mythical ailments all the time. “He’s been battling tightness of the [name your body part] practically all season and it’s gotten the point where he needs to rest it in order to get him back healthy.” Who’s going to challenge that, given his production? Could Ortiz fight it? Sure. And sometimes they actually do. But what’s easier on Ortiz’s ego, rationalizing to himself that a few week’s rest is what he needs or sitting on the bench and watching Jeff Bailey take his at bats?

[E5 Yaz]

After the recent spate of high-profile, questionably timed injury stints for Dice-K, Dontrelle Willis and Chien-ming Wang, there was a spate of national media stories asking MLB officials if they were going to begin looking more closely at DL placements of players who are simply going poorly at the plate or on the mound. The MLB officials said they've always had the ability to check into such things and that if anything smelled as a team attempting to stash away a struggling player, they'd look into it.

There isn't a player in baseball right now who would draw more attention by being placed on the DL than David Ortiz. Those of you who think it's just a matter of a friendly doctor and a wink-wink with Ortiz are fooling yourselves. In the end the Sox might get away with doing it, but it won't be without a heavy dose of media scrutiny and, perhaps, challenges from other teams (Angels and Yankees come to mind).

[Pandemonium67]

As long as Ortiz will play along, it's no problem. All he has to say is his wrist hurts.

[worm0082]

I'm still going with that remark he made about "you don't know about things that happen off the field" (paraphrasing).

If it was medical/visual there's no doubt they would have found it by now. I don't know how Drew did it with his child being sick, I know I couldn't have my mind focused on my job or want to go for 8 hours a day in a situation like that let alone being away from family etc.. not saying his kid is sick but fam problems or something.

I still think its mental and not in a Knoblauch type of way.

Edited by worm0082, 28 May 2009 - 07:58 AM.

[Rough Carrigan]

It was interesting to see a replay of Bay hitting his homer to left center and then Ortiz batting last night. Bay's swing was like a whip, with so much wrist action that the head of the bat was clearly accelerating faster than the handle and out ahead of it. Ortiz then came to bat and his cut looked like a wave with no wrist action what.so.ever and any speed stopping essentially at his forearm. Just one jackass fan's perception of it but what a contrast.

[sachilles]

I thought Ortiz had a couple pretty good pokes at the ball last night. You have to look at it in baby steps. Early in the season, he couldn't come close to half the pitches. Right now he's making contact. He even had some at bats that lasted more than 3 pitches. He still had some moments where he was lost, but not like he was a month ago. He's coming around. It's not the like the rest of the team was lighting up the bats last night.

As far as the drinking thing goes, that seems a bit of grasp, based on one night. I know I've went out and boozed a night before I had to work(at 8am mind you). It hurts a bit more now than when I was younger, but it can still be done. One night of drinking doesn't mean he has a drinking problem. How did he bat the following day? It was good enough for the Babe, maybe he ought to go out drinking more.

[TheoShmeo]

I agree with those who argue that the Sox can DL Ortiz if they want to. Frankly, I'd be surprised if he didn't play along as his current predicament has to be horribly embarassing. The chance to try to get things straightened out away from the spot light is something he'd probably quietly welcome.

But if, for agrument's sake, Ortiz rejected a DL stint, it shouldn't stop the team from doing what it needs to do, and that is to trade for or otherwise acquire a quality hitter to insert into the line-up. If Ortiz forces them to choose between leaving him on the bench and squabbling with him about a DL stint, then so be it.

To be clear, I can't imagine Ortiz ever doing that.

But the hole in the line-up is now a bigger problem, in my view, than any Ortiz fall out.

[kazuneko]

The thing about DL abuse is that there really isn't anyone in a position to care enough about enforcement. MLB is a weak and mostly reactionary association, as long as no team is comlpaining about it they aren't going to bother. The impact on other teams is too minor and abstract for anyone to care much about the infraction, and they all have the incentive to ignore it when other teams do it so they can do it themselves when necessary. Unless there is some kind of major push by the media - and again, why bother? - phantom injuries are here to stay.

[86spike]

Ortiz has enough wear and tear on his knees, wrist and shoulder to justify a DL stint at any time if he and the team decide that's what's best. We shouldn't worry about MLB or the Yankees claiming he's faking it.

[sachilles]

I think if anyone will have an issue with it, it's the players association. They'd be the ones to make a big stink about it.

[86spike]

I think if anyone will have an issue with it, it's the players association. They'd be the ones to make a big stink about it.

only if Ortiz asked them to.

[smastroyin]

only if Ortiz asked them to.

Not true. They can intervene any time they want in the name of what is good for the rest of the union.

[Todd Benzinger]

Plus there is the fact that Ortiz is a guy who has had a number of serious injuries--wrists and knees--and who, the argument at SoSH long ran, had to be kept out of the field not because of his lead glove but because of his injury risks.

Getting Ortiz to go on the DL is not "hellenic flu." The guy is battling with the fallout of several injuries and surgeries. What else causes someone in their early 30s to lose it so fast?

Invoking Dice-K as an example of a phantom injury is silly, too. Dead arm is not a phantom injury and has long been used to justify DL stints--as well it should. Should teams really be forced to use pitchers who are physically unable to pitch with any effectiveness and need rest--or should they just lose a roster spot until the guy can throw again? I don't get it.

Those who are saying that the "just DL him" line is overly simplistic are right--he has to either have an injury OR agree to go on the DL to try to rest and rehab the problems of his accumulated injuries/surgeries. But the fact that Ortiz has to agree in no way means that the Sox can't do it, just that they have to talk him into it. Bribing him seems like a wacky idea, tho.

Didn't he recently get hit on his reconstructed wrist, though? or wack it somehow? I remember thinking, oh crap, but at least he can go on the DL...

And then there is the report that he is "struggling with left shoulder tendenitis" posted early in this thread.

Seriously, although the Sox wouldn't so it, and the procedure doesn't work this way, if they DL'd Papi against his will, and he filed a grievance, and there was a hearing about it, the Sox would win the case.

He isn't going to play on the road during interleague anyway... he might agree to a DL stint to coinicide with that and avoid any media-fueled embarassment about it. And then the Sox could finally get Chris Carter up so we could stop watching Bailey get dominated by RHP whenever anyone needs a day off. Likely to happen today, BTW, as Bay will be rested.

[opes]

Right now, Papi is getting ridiciously close to duplicate Hafner's entire '08 season.

CODE

Hafner:
TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
2008 Cle 57 198 21 39 10 0 5 24 27 55 1 1 .197 .305 .323 .628


Papi:
SPLITS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Season 43 161 15 31 12 1 1 18 23 43 0 1 .193 .298 .298 .597

EDIT: forgot a word

Edited by opes, 28 May 2009 - 11:21 AM.

[Return of the Dewey]

Ortiz 6th inning AB against Swarzak of MN was an 8 pitch AB with 7 of those pitches being FBs (90-92 mph), and he ended up striking out swinging after fouling off 5 pitches (and having 2 pitches be balls). I would expect a heavy dose of FBs to continue to be thrown to him until he can prove that he can hit them, which is not going to help is OBP (he seems to be getting behind 0-2, 1-2 in every AB now).

And his next AB was a pop-up to 2B (after, once again, being down 1-2 in the count).

I mentioned it in the Game Thread, but I think that Tito/Theo should ask him if he would accept a minor league assignment to work on his swing.

Edited by Return of the Dewey, 28 May 2009 - 02:52 PM.

[knucklecup]

Ortiz 6th inning AB against Swarzak of MN was an 8 pitch AB with 7 of those pitches being FBs (90-92 mph), and he ended up striking out swinging after fouling off 5 pitches (and having 2 pitches be balls). I would expect a heavy dose of FBs to continue to be thrown to him until he can prove that he can hit them, which is not going to help is OBP (he seems to be getting behind 0-2, 1-2 in every AB now).

And his next AB was a pop-up to 2B (after, once again, being down 1-2 in the count).

I mentioned it in the Game Thread, but I think that Tito/Theo should ask him if he would accept a minor league assignment to work on his swing.

Not that this is anything new but watching that at-bat this afternoon, the pitches that he fouled off were pitches that two years ago he sends to the upper deck.

He's a black hole and something has to be done about it.

[4-6-3]

Not that this is anything new but watching that at-bat this afternoon, the pitches that he fouled off were pitches that two years ago he sends to the upper deck.

He's a black hole and something has to be done about it.

At what point do they start adjusting his swing, stride, etc...? He's not catching up to the fastballs and as the Twins demonstrated, just keep throwing the fastball until he shows he can do something with it. It's almost to the point - what does he have to lose - he's going 0'fer every game.

[OttoC]

This table shows shows some changes in the results of swings by Ortiz this year over the past couple of seasons.

He is fouling off a higher percentage of all pitches (P%F) and strikes (K%F) this year. His percentage of strikes swinging (K%S) is also higher while his percentage of strikes called (K%C) is much lower. Finally, he is seeing a lower percentage of balls called (P%B) and he is putting fewer pitches into play (P%X).

Year	P%F	K%F	K%C	K%S	P%X	P%B
2009	20.27%	44.69%	28.07%	27.25%	15.33%	39.31%
2008	15.48%	40.00%	36.60%	23.40%	17.50%	43.80%
2007	17.05%	43.32%	34.97%	21.71%	16.39%	44.21%

Foul tips are included under swinging strikes.

His control of the strike zone does not seem to be as good this year as it has been. Although he had a 13-game stretch (Apr 30 - May 14) when he averaged one walk per game, he has only averaged one walk every three games in the remaining 30 games he has played. This could be that he is just pressing but it could also be that he just isn't trusting his old strike zone. In the past, Ortiz would take strikes, then squawk; now he may be swinging at those pitches.

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

His control of the strike zone does not seem to be as good this year as it has been. Although he had a 13-game stretch (Apr 30 - May 14) when he averaged one walk per game, he has only averaged one walk every three games in the remaining 30 games he has played. This could be that he is just pressing but it could also be that he just isn't trusting his old strike zone. In the past, Ortiz would take strikes, then squawk; now he may be swinging at those pitches.

I was concerned about his lack of walks early, with the same line if thinking: He's expanding his strike zone.

But this is a case where the stats don't tell the whole truth. After watching this Twins series especially, I know why his walks are down: They don't throw him balls anymore. They were just pumping fastball after fastball after fastball right over the heart of the plate and he couldn't do anything with it. He's not being fooled, or pitched carefully, or simply having bad luck. He's missing, or fouling off, very hittable pitches.

Varitek is proof positive, to me, of Papi's problems. I think Varitek is being pitched similarly to Papi - lots of fastballs, let's make him prove he can still hit. Except Tek is actually crushing some of those fastballs. I may be biased, because I still think Tek stinks, but I'd swear the pitches he's hitting for dingers are meatballs. The same meatballs Papi's getting and just doing nothing with.

[TheYaz67]

I was concerned about his lack of walks early, with the same line if thinking: He's expanding his strike zone.

But this is a case where the stats don't tell the whole truth. After watching this Twins series especially, I know why his walks are down: They don't throw him balls anymore. They were just pumping fastball after fastball after fastball right over the heart of the plate and he couldn't do anything with it. He's not being fooled, or pitched carefully, or simply having bad luck. He's missing, or fouling off, very hittable pitches.

Indeed - quoted for truth. Pitchers are not trying to nibble the low outside corner, or get him to chase up and in, as has been the case in the past - they are just going right after him, putting him behind in the count almost each at bat. Regardless of his good hitter's eye, this is not a recipe for long term success.

I don't think (regardless of position in the order) that we can thrive with a DH who cannot even OBP at a .300 level (much less not slugging at that level either). His quotes in the paper this morning is either him putting on a brave face, or he indeed believes he is not far from grinding himself back into form and getting just a "little bit of luck". If that is truly his attitude, he doesn't sound like he is going to go on the DH without a "fight", although its hard to imagine him asking the union to intervene if Tito gives him another few weeks and there is still no improvement. At some point the Sox have to be able to assert their right to have the opinion that the results indicate that he is in essence "hiding" an injury and ask him to go on the DL. Frankly a trip to the DL would save face more than being benched, so he needs to consider that......

[TomRicardo]

Not true. They can intervene any time they want in the name of what is good for the rest of the union.

Why would a player being put on the DL be bad for the union? The only time it actually hurts is a contract year.

[John DiFool]

I may be biased, because I still think Tek stinks, but I'd swear the pitches he's hitting for dingers are meatballs. The same meatballs Papi's getting and just doing nothing with.

Damning Tek with faint praise? Most home runs given up are undoubtedly on "meatballs", and Tek deserves credit for punishing same.

[OttoC]

Just a curiosity, but Ortiz's OBP and SLG are identical (.297 each, rounded to 3 decimal places, anyway).

[SoxFanPJ]

Why would a player being put on the DL be bad for the union? The only time it actually hurts is a contract year.

Players going on the DL for minor issues or allowing the teams to have more flexibility with regard to what is a disabling injury or not sets a bad precedent for the union.

For example, lets say Player X has tendinitis in his knee, its painful and occasionally he needs a day off to manage it, but its not something that will be permanently cured by a DL stint. Lets also suppose that Player X has a contract similar to Julio Lugo which has a vesting option based on games played or plate appearances. The team is tired of player X and doesn't want his option to vest so they stick him on the DL with tendinitis, a legitimate injury but they do so not because he can't play but because they don't want his option to vest.

Another example, lets say a big money player like Dontrel Willis is performing like crap and has done so for an extended period of time but he has enough service time the team, can't just send him down to the minors to try to work out his problems. The Tigers come up with an anxiety disorder diagnosis to get him on the DL and then to the minors or extended spring training to work on his pitching. The union would rather have the teams in the position of having to waive the player, pay the player his entire guaranteed salary and allow the player to try to catch on with another team.

[Foulkey Reese]

Average down to .189 with a .581 OPS out of the DH spot. How much longer can this possibly go on?

[g0wave]

This is getting to the point where it is damaging to the rest of the team. Tonight is a perfect example of the damage that can be done with a hole in the middle of the lineup in any spot. It takes momentum away. It takes pressure off the opposing pitching. This goes against the entire strategy of a balanced and "long" lineup....

There's likely an injury there - time for a trip to the DL.

edit: typo

Edited by g0wave, 29 May 2009 - 09:34 PM.

[4-6-3]

Maybe they should try playing a couple of games at first - occupy his mind rather than sitting and thinking about how much Papi stinks. I'm assuming they wouldn't worry about an injury at this point.

[yecul]

Average down to .189 with a .581 OPS out of the DH spot. How much longer can this possibly go on?

David Ortiz >>> Red Sox Team

That much is clear.

It will go on until the end of the season or he pulls his own plug. I think they will give him all the rope he will take. Maybe another 6 weeks or 12 and they will sit him a couple times a week.

At least it seems that way.

[genoasalami]

David Ortiz >>> Red Sox Team

That much is clear.

It will go on until the end of the season or he pulls his own plug. I think they will give him all the rope he will take. Maybe another 6 weeks or 12 and they will sit him a couple times a week.

At least it seems that way.

CEOs of major corporations get paid big $$$$ to make tough decisions that may be unpopular, but ultimately are best for the company. The Sox brass is faced with some tough decisions regarding Ortiz. They have no choice but to look ahead and not back on his prior accomplishments. At some point real soon, the sample size of his suck is going to be so large that their only option will be to remove his bat from the lineup.

Has there ever been a full time DH whose numbers were this bad, so late in the season?? Is anyone even close??

Edited by genoasalami, 29 May 2009 - 09:43 PM.

[MidnightC]

Has there ever been a full time DH whose numbers were this bad, so late in the season?? Is anyone even close??

Jose Vidro comes to mind. He put up a .612 OPS in 272 ABs as Seattle's DH last season.

...I think I'm going to cry now that I've actually written that.

[knucklecup]

http://www.theonion...._drug_policy_to

kinda funny.

[reggiecleveland]

http://www.theonion...._drug_policy_to

kinda funny.

There has to be some Sox fans working there,
http://www.theonion....avid_ortiz_road

They also had the Tek shift gag earlier

[TFisNEXT]

You have to expect a ridiculous hitter like Ortiz will eventually put up like a .850 OPS...but how long will they wait for it? He obviously is not a .680 OPS skill hitter...he can probably hit easily enough to be a serviceable DH. But something is in his head now, or he just is in a really sh*tty streak...ala the fly ball to the wall's edge last night with the bases loaded.

Its almost impossible for Ortiz to become a .600 OPS guy...he will hit eventually...but how do they bring it along? Maybe platoon him a bit? We can't keep waiting for him to hit. He;s gonna have to sit unless he all of the sudden hits 5 HRs in a week.

[Carlos Cowart]

CEOs of major corporations get paid big $$$$ to make tough decisions that may be unpopular...

With whom outside of Ortiz's immediate family would the decision to bench him be unpopular?

[Ananti]

You have to expect a ridiculous hitter like Ortiz will eventually put up like a .850 OPS...but how long will they wait for it? He obviously is not a .680 OPS skill hitter...he can probably hit easily enough to be a serviceable DH. But something is in his head now, or he just is in a really sh*tty streak...ala the fly ball to the wall's edge last night with the bases loaded.

Its almost impossible for Ortiz to become a .600 OPS guy...he will hit eventually...but how do they bring it along? Maybe platoon him a bit? We can't keep waiting for him to hit. He;s gonna have to sit unless he all of the sudden hits 5 HRs in a week.

I don't think it's impossible at all, at least not for 2009. I think with the proper rest, training, etc, he might be a productive hitter in 2010. But I think 2009 is going to be a lost year, and the sooner the Sox FO put an end to it the better.

[NDame616]

I don't think it's impossible at all, at least not for 2009. I think with the proper rest, training, etc, he might be a productive hitter in 2010. But I think 2009 is going to be a lost year, and the sooner the Sox FO put an end to it the better.

I don't get this logic. So he is one of baseball's worst hitters in 09, but whatever is wrong....whether mental, phycial or lack of chemical help, he will somehow figure it out in 2010?

[In my lifetime]

I am sure the front office is now weighing the most likely options:
1) DL
2) Platoon

At this point, it is hard to make the argument against at least being platooning him.

Also it seems unlikely the FO is aware of any injury, since after this extended slump there would be no reason not to shut Papi down.

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Maybe they should try playing a couple of games at first - occupy his mind rather than sitting and thinking about how much Papi stinks. I'm assuming they wouldn't worry about an injury at this point.

If the brass are going to keep playing him, I think this is a great idea. As a DH, he may have too much time to think. Put him in the field, make him think about different things, and maybe something else will happen.

Plus, if he gets injured, that's a double-bonus.

[Bowlerman9]

If the brass are going to keep playing him, I think this is a great idea. As a DH, he may have too much time to think. Put him in the field, make him think about different things, and maybe something else will happen.

Plus, if he gets injured, that's a double-bonus.

Until he goes 0-4 with 2 errors and hurts the team even worse.

[pokey_reese]

I am sure the front office is now weighing the most likely options:
1) DL
2) Platoon

At this point, it is hard to make the argument against at least being platooning him.

Also it seems unlikely the FO is aware of any injury, since after this extended slump there would be no reason not to shut Papi down.

Platoon him how? He is actually hitting slightly better off LHP this year, so why run him ou there just for RHP?

vs LHP: .207/.250/.362/.612
vs RHP: .180/.311/.252/.563

Or is this a platoon that has nothing to do with the handedness of the pitcher, just a Lugo-Green sort of platoon to get him on the bnech 3-4 times per week? At that point, you might as well just make him the most expensive pinch-hitter in the game.

[Rocco Graziosa]

With whom outside of Ortiz's immediate family would the decision to bench him be unpopular?

Probably his teamattes. They could/would see it as the ultimate sign of disrespect for a player that means more to this organization than anyone else in that lockeroom times a billion.

If there is one reason to "stick by him", thats probably it. Oh and I suppose he could break out of it. (ie, pay a visit to ARod's cousin )

Edited by Rocco Graziosa, 30 May 2009 - 11:23 AM.

[geoduck no quahog]

Go to the Yahoo sortable stats page for DH's.

With 1/3 of the season complete, it sure seems to me that generally speaking the DH's of 2009 are a disappointment. But more notable is some of the comparisons on raw data versus averages.

The qualified players have all had a similar number of AB's. Kubel, Butler, Damon and Lind all have more than 40 hits. The rest of the field have between 32 and 40, with Ortiz, Thome, Wiggington and Giambi all at 32. Eight hits separate the BA leaders from the losers.

Take out Lind's remarkable 36 RBI. The average becomes 22.7 RBI's for the position. Ortiz has 18, meaning 4 RBI's separate him from the league and 7 RBI's separate him from the leaders. If that ball last night had carried, he'd have made much of that up in one game.

It's all about the homeruns.

Giambi, Kubel, Butler and Wiggington all have 5 or fewer HR's. Ortiz has 1. Blalock and Damon have 11 and 10.

These stats are for players with the minimum ab's at the position (both Damon and Matsui qualify) so there are others that would skew the league average. Now my lyin' eyes tell me Ortiz is terrible this year, but part of that is the fact that I see him almost every day in every situation - many of them critical. My point? The season's not yet lost for the guy. A short streak of hits and homeruns puts him right back into the pack and we're all smiling.

Maybe he never has that streak. Maybe he's lost the long ball power that makes a DH a DH. Still, I'd have to watch the other 10 players on that list on a daily basis to make a meaningful comparison. It sure seems to me that, so far, the DH-class of 2009 is a bust. He's still at or near the bottom of that class, but grading on a curve would get him back up in no time if things turn around even marginally.

[NomarRS05]

Probably his teamattes. They could/would see it as the ultimate sign of disrespect for a player that means more to this organization than anyone else in that lockeroom times a billion.

If there is one reason to "stick by him", thats probably it. Oh and I suppose he could break out of it. (ie, pay a visit to ARod's cousin )

If his teammates don't understand how someone who goes 0-4 seemingly every night for two months can be asked to have a seat on the bench then that's their problem. However, I'm sure they'll be quite understanding of Tito's decision to cut back Ortiz's playing time if and when it happens. Some of them may even be hoping it happens ASAP so as to take the weight off the rest of the starters.

[Rocco Graziosa]

If his teammates don't understand how someone who goes 0-4 seemingly every night for two months can be asked to have a seat on the bench then that's their problem. However, I'm sure they'll be quite understanding of Tito's decision to cut back Ortiz's playing time if and when it happens. Some of them may even be hoping it happens ASAP so as to take the weight off the rest of the starters.

Actually if the teamattes have a problem with it, its the TEAM'S problem. And that was my point as to why Francona might think twice about sitting this guy.

[CrouchingTonyHiddenPena]

Until he goes 0-4 with 2 errors and hurts the team even worse.

While technically worse, the upside of him committing a couple errors here and there (hopefully of the harmless variety) while something clicks in his minds to help him out of this funk is worth it IMHO. Seeing as though this is all hypothetical anyway, why not at least try it out? At this point, I'm not so sure it could hurt worse, but I certainly see your logical point. Something has to give either way...and sooner rather than later.