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Random Sox Crap (Sox Thoughts without Threads)

#1181 User is online   knucklecup 

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:42 AM

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds...esterday_j.html

this article bothered me as I was browsing the extra bases blog briefly this afternoon. personally, I would want no part of the deal proposed:

QUOTE
Epstein calls two agents and within a day signs Lackey and Cameron. The next call is to Hoyer.

"Jed, you can have Buchholz, Ellsbury and Westmoreland and I get Gonzalez and anybody you have named Ramon Ramirez. Deal?"

Hoyer pauses. "Sure, nobody pays attention to baseball out here anyway. They're all out rollerblading. It's a deal."

This post has been edited by knucklecup: 16 December 2009 - 12:43 AM


#1182 User is offline   Joshv02 

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:46 AM

It was a a bit of a joke piece; I wouldn't take Pete's trade proposals seriously. The Ramon Ramirez part was pretty funny though.

#1183 User is online   SoxScout 

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:16 AM

Did we ever find out if those no-trade promises made to Westmoreland were true? Even if they are not, and knowing baseball is a business, isn't it kind of shitty turn around and trade a kid who only decided to skip college because he was drafted by the one team he would consider singing with? Too sentimental?

#1184 User is offline   Quintanariffic 

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:38 AM

QUOTE (SoxScout @ Dec 16 2009, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Did we ever find out if those no-trade promises made to Westmoreland were true? Even if they are not, and knowing baseball is a business, isn't it kind of shitty turn around and trade a kid who only decided to skip college because he was drafted by the one team he would consider singing with? Too sentimental?

I think that is known to be false technically. I wouldn't be surprised if off the record representations have been made. As a practical matter, Westmoreland is quite possibly the best all around prospect the Red Sox have had since Hanley Ramirez and he is a local kid to boot. He is, IMO, the very last guy they would trade out of their ml system.


[quote

- DH3

#1185 User is offline   templeUsox 

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:40 AM

Rumors about a NTC are roundly false and no promises have been made to him.

#1186 User is offline   Eric Van 

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:47 AM

QUOTE (Worst Trade Evah @ Dec 15 2009, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't really understand or perhaps agree with the distinction between "hot/cold percentage" and "skill", to the extent it seems be getting invoked here. The frequency with which good results are obtained is a pretty important aspect of skill. Tom Brunansky was a mediocre hitter who occasionally put up a 1.200 OPS for a week. Once a year or so. It wasn't that he had skill and just a bad hot/cold percentage. He had a pattern common among mediocre hitters.

We're not talking about a great week. We're talking about major chunks of a season, long enough to convince you that the skill demonstrated is real and that the difference between that and the cold stretches -- which are also long -- couldn't possibly be random.

For instance ... a guy is hitting .208 / .266 / .323 in 143 PA on May 18. He then hits .295 / .379 / .576 in 256 PA through August 28th. And then in his final 116 PA, he hits .194 / .310 / .286, to finish at .248 / .332 / .440. Which is a very mediocre line for a 1B.

The question is, what's his skill level? Is he really no better than a 772 OPS hitter who had no such dramatic cold-hot-cold pattern? Why couldn't he hit the way he did from May 19 to August 28th more or less all year, minimizing the slumps (which may be unavoidable) to just a week or two instead of five or six weeks? What would happen if he did that?

This. It's four years later and it's essentially the same season, except that the cold spell at the start of the season lasts 71 PA (with much more power, in irregular PT, and may not in fact be a cold spell at all), and the only clearly discernible slump -- .143 / .294 / .286 starting June 18 -- only lasts 12 games and 51 PA instead of a major chunk of the season. This is the exact same player, only with a better hitting coach and/or better understanding of his own hitting mechanics and how to fix them when they go wrong.

(And yes, he showed the same Jekyll and Hyde pattern in 2004 and 2005.)

#1187 User is offline   RedOctober3829 

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:43 PM

QUOTE
• The Astros are telling teams Lance Berkman is unavailable. The Red Sox are one team to have inquired.

Link
“Everybody can be [expletive] happy when you’re [expletive] 30-1, but what is everybody going to do when we’re 12-14? Are you going to show up to work the next day and write an [expletive] story? Hell no. You’re going to write the best story of your life. We’re going to try and play the best [expletive] game of our life tomorrow. That’s what you’ve got to do when you’re 12-14. Don’t put your head down and mope. Grind it out. You believe. That’s what we’re built on.”
--Dustin Pedroia 5/4/10

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#1188 User is offline   johnlimberakis 

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 08:06 PM

QUOTE (RedOctober3829 @ Dec 16 2009, 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I misread this as
"The astros team is available. The Red Sox are one team to have inquired."

How much would they have to give up for Lance? IMO he's on the first year of a decline. I think they have to pass.

This post has been edited by johnlimberakis: 16 December 2009 - 08:06 PM

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#1189 User is offline   bombdiggz 

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 08:29 PM

Yeah, if Berkman hasn't been declining for the past couple of years, he is a prime candidate.

More importantly though, I think this speaks to the fact that they are still actively looking for a big bat and have confidence in Youk playing third.
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#1190 User is offline   bosockboy 

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 08:32 PM

QUOTE (bombdiggz @ Dec 16 2009, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, if Berkman hasn't been declining for the past couple of years, he is a prime candidate.

More importantly though, I think this speaks to the fact that they are still actively looking for a big bat and have confidence in Youk playing third.



My darkhorse trade...Derrek Lee. 1 year 13 million. If the Cubs can't move Milton then they might have to cut payroll elsewhere.

#1191 User is offline   The Filthy One 

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 09:53 PM

QUOTE (bosockboy @ Dec 16 2009, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My darkhorse trade...Derrek Lee. 1 year 13 million. If the Cubs can't move Milton then they might have to cut payroll elsewhere.


I wonder what it would take to get Lee? You'd only have him for one year, and it'd be his age 34 season, so extending him much beyond a year or two probably wouldn't be in the cards. Would Bard and 1 of Reddick/Kalish be enough?
I am McLovin.

#1192 User is online   SoxScout 

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 02:45 AM

QUOTE
One scout said this week that the Red Sox offered to trade Manny Delcarmen to Texas for reliever Guillermo Moscoso, a rookie last season who appeared in 10 games for the Rangers last season. That could not be independently confirmed.
http://espn.go.com/boston/columns/redsox/b...50122/name/edes

#1193 User is offline   Eric Van 

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 02:53 AM

QUOTE (bosockboy @ Dec 16 2009, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My darkhorse trade...Derrek Lee. 1 year 13 million. If the Cubs can't move Milton then they might have to cut payroll elsewhere.

He's really not that good any more. There are certainly a dozen better 1B, which makes him a bit above average at best. In fact, he projects to have a bit below average bat (-3) for a regular at the position, +3 defense. Not any better than Nick Johnson who would be free to obtain and cheaper. A win / 10 runs better than Casey Kotchman if Kotchman returns halfway to his 2007 form, which is his projection.

Filthy One: we no longer have Josh Bard and I've never even heard of Daniel Reddick or Daniel Kalish. (You couldn't seriously be suggesting that we trade 5 years of Daniel Bard and 6 of Josh Reddick for one year of an average player who has the salary of an all-star. You can't offer him arbitration so he's not worth two picks.)


#1194 User is offline   Drek717 

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 07:37 AM

A random bit of lineup/roster construction that has been running through my head this morning, for the Random Crap thread:

Assuming we go forward with the Youkotch corner combo this is about what I'm thinking we'll see for lineups:

RHP:
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Martinez
Youkilis
Drew
Cameron
Ortiz
Scutaro
Kotchman

LHP:
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Martinez (1B)
Youkilis
Drew
Cameron
Ortiz
Varitek
Scutaro

This with Hermida (taking time against RHP for all three OFs and maybe some DH time for Ortiz against lefties) Tug Hulett (straight up backup MI) and Varitek (in against lefties).

So we have one more bench spot (assuming a 12 man pitching staff). Sure we could use it on some AAAA 25th man type but that doesn't add wins. So what is the best use we can do with that one extra spot?

A few ideas:

1. Adrian Beltre: make Kotchman into the backup 1B. This obviously gives us a better starting defense, and our backup CI is a stud defender at 1B himself. The only big negative is the money. From a lineup construction standpoint it does take away the Martinez to 1B/Tek to C option against LHP, but we can just replace that with Martinez to DH, Tek to C against them instead which is very possibly a better option regardless.

2. Mark DeRosa: super utility who should be in against every LHP and plays (slightly negative) 1B and 3B along with being a plus RF (and probably LF where his UZR150 is too small given its duration to trust). The negatives here would be money (probably getting at least Polanco money, lot of cash for a super utility guy) and it also puts a real pinch on who gets ABs out of him, Hermida (who's the 4th OF?) and Kotchman (who plays across Youks on a daily basis?).

3. Fernando Tatis: I personally don't know why he's gotten such irregular playing time after his excellent '99 season, but looking at him by the numbers he'd offer similar pluses and minuses to DeRosa at less money. He'd probably also be a slightly better defender.

4. Nick Johnson: This is the "Casey Kotchman can't be a full timer" option, since Johnson and Kotchman are both LH 1Bs who's offensive value is tied to a high OBP. If we went this route we'd probably be best served to dump Kotchman somewhere and get another guy off this list, ideally one who can play 3B.

5. Kelly Johnson: non-tender from Atlanta, primarily a (below average) 2B but also a well above average LF in a limited sample size several years ago. While he's a LH hitter he doesn't show a big split (actually had a big reverse split last year). He's another low cost option like Tatis but has more upside and youth on his side. A big question is if he can pick up 3B, having never really played it before. The biggest negative to me here is that it makes our team even more left handed, when we really need more RH bats.

6. Ryan Garko: non-tender RH bat with some real power potential. He also has a big boost against LHP in his splits, that has been consistent over the past three years. Would fit great against LHP picking up the 1B or DH spot that Martinez isn't moving into. Big question is if he can play LF at even a remotely passable level. He's got a very small sample size in the OF currently, and its not a pretty one. Will he get enough ABs as basically the Kotchman platoon partner? Are we comfortable with Tug Hulett as our backup 3B option for potentially a whole season?

7. Xavier Nady: RH bat who can play a slightly plus 1B, LF, and RF. He's known as a LHP masher but his '06-'08 lines make me wonder if that is reliable (big LHP split in '06, nearly even in '07, big RHP split in '08). Is he healthy? Like Garko it also leaves us with Tug Hulett as our backup 3B unless Lowrie bounces back fully and quickly.

#1195 User is offline   One Red Seat 

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 08:44 AM

QUOTE (Drek717 @ Dec 17 2009, 07:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A random bit of lineup/roster construction that has been running through my head this morning, for the Random Crap thread:

Assuming we go forward with the Youkotch corner combo this is about what I'm thinking we'll see for lineups:

RHP:
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Martinez
Youkilis
Drew
Cameron
Ortiz
Scutaro
Kotchman

LHP:
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Martinez (1B)
Youkilis
Drew
Cameron
Ortiz
Varitek
Scutaro

This with Hermida (taking time against RHP for all three OFs and maybe some DH time for Ortiz against lefties) Tug Hulett (straight up backup MI) and Varitek (in against lefties).

So we have one more bench spot (assuming a 12 man pitching staff). Sure we could use it on some AAAA 25th man type but that doesn't add wins. So what is the best use we can do with that one extra spot?

A few ideas:

1. Adrian Beltre: make Kotchman into the backup 1B. This obviously gives us a better starting defense, and our backup CI is a stud defender at 1B himself. The only big negative is the money. From a lineup construction standpoint it does take away the Martinez to 1B/Tek to C option against LHP, but we can just replace that with Martinez to DH, Tek to C against them instead which is very possibly a better option regardless.

2. Mark DeRosa: super utility who should be in against every LHP and plays (slightly negative) 1B and 3B along with being a plus RF (and probably LF where his UZR150 is too small given its duration to trust). The negatives here would be money (probably getting at least Polanco money, lot of cash for a super utility guy) and it also puts a real pinch on who gets ABs out of him, Hermida (who's the 4th OF?) and Kotchman (who plays across Youks on a daily basis?).

3. Fernando Tatis: I personally don't know why he's gotten such irregular playing time after his excellent '99 season, but looking at him by the numbers he'd offer similar pluses and minuses to DeRosa at less money. He'd probably also be a slightly better defender.

4. Nick Johnson: This is the "Casey Kotchman can't be a full timer" option, since Johnson and Kotchman are both LH 1Bs who's offensive value is tied to a high OBP. If we went this route we'd probably be best served to dump Kotchman somewhere and get another guy off this list, ideally one who can play 3B.

5. Kelly Johnson: non-tender from Atlanta, primarily a (below average) 2B but also a well above average LF in a limited sample size several years ago. While he's a LH hitter he doesn't show a big split (actually had a big reverse split last year). He's another low cost option like Tatis but has more upside and youth on his side. A big question is if he can pick up 3B, having never really played it before. The biggest negative to me here is that it makes our team even more left handed, when we really need more RH bats.

6. Ryan Garko: non-tender RH bat with some real power potential. He also has a big boost against LHP in his splits, that has been consistent over the past three years. Would fit great against LHP picking up the 1B or DH spot that Martinez isn't moving into. Big question is if he can play LF at even a remotely passable level. He's got a very small sample size in the OF currently, and its not a pretty one. Will he get enough ABs as basically the Kotchman platoon partner? Are we comfortable with Tug Hulett as our backup 3B option for potentially a whole season?

7. Xavier Nady: RH bat who can play a slightly plus 1B, LF, and RF. He's known as a LHP masher but his '06-'08 lines make me wonder if that is reliable (big LHP split in '06, nearly even in '07, big RHP split in '08). Is he healthy? Like Garko it also leaves us with Tug Hulett as our backup 3B unless Lowrie bounces back fully and quickly.

I don't necessarily disagree with the lineups you have proposed and I know you are trying to achieve some R/L balance but, I just don't see Tito hitting Papi 7th. Definitely not out of the gate. It would probably take a pretty prolonged period of suckitude before that would become Papi's normal slot in the order.

#1196 User is offline   Eric Van 

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 02:32 PM

QUOTE (One Red Seat @ Dec 17 2009, 08:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't necessarily disagree with the lineups you have proposed and I know you are trying to achieve some R/L balance but, I just don't see Tito hitting Papi 7th. Definitely not out of the gate. It would probably take a pretty prolonged period of suckitude before that would become Papi's normal slot in the order.

In fact, Ortiz has a better chance of starting the season hitting 3rd than 7th.

You've got to have Drew or Ortiz hitting 3rd. VMart hitting there was just because they couldn't trust Papi. VMart is not a better hitter than Drew or a non-slumping Ortiz. No reason to bat him 3rd over both of those guys and force Drew down to 7.

So it's

Ells
Pedro
Drew or Ortiz
Youk
Ortiz or Drew or VMart
VMart or Drew
Cameron or Kotchman / Beltre
Kotchman / Beltre or Cameron
Scutaro

Basically, you first decide Drew or Papi for 3rd, and if it's Papi you decide VMart of Drew for 5th (Papi won't go lower than 5th), and if it's Drew 5th you decide Cameron or Kotchman for 7th (if Drew is 6th than Cam will be 7th).

Kotchman is preferable 8 over 7 if he's platooning with Varitek.

#1197 User is offline   SoxFanSince57 

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 02:58 PM

EV, I agree with this point "VMart hitting there (3rd) was just because they couldn't trust Papi."

While I agree it may not be likely that Tito will hit David lower than 5th, I would much prefer VMart hitting with those guys on base than Ortiz. I buy into your view that David will/may go through some long periods of suck. Let him bat 6th through thick and thin, rather than dealing with the angst of lineup construction during those "predicted" periods when he slumps and generates a ton of LOB.

Ells
Pedro
Drew
Youk
VMart
Ortiz
Cameron
Kotchman
Scutaro

This post has been edited by SoxFanSince57: 17 December 2009 - 03:02 PM

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#1198 User is offline   pokey_reese 

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 03:06 PM

QUOTE (Eric Van @ Dec 17 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In fact, Ortiz has a better chance of starting the season hitting 3rd than 7th.

You've got to have Drew or Ortiz hitting 3rd. VMart hitting there was just because they couldn't trust Papi. VMart is not a better hitter than Drew or a non-slumping Ortiz. No reason to bat him 3rd over both of those guys and force Drew down to 7.

So it's

Ells
Pedro
Drew or Ortiz
Youk
Ortiz or Drew or VMart
VMart or Drew
Cameron or Kotchman / Beltre
Kotchman / Beltre or Cameron
Scutaro

Basically, you first decide Drew or Papi for 3rd, and if it's Papi you decide VMart of Drew for 5th (Papi won't go lower than 5th), and if it's Drew 5th you decide Cameron or Kotchman for 7th (if Drew is 6th than Cam will be 7th).

Kotchman is preferable 8 over 7 if he's platooning with Varitek.


Not for nothing, Drew over his career has had better numbers hitting 3rd than anywhere else (.963 OPS), and if the statistics about "protection" being largely insignificant are true, then it may be as much about comfort as anything, especially since he has over 700 more PAs as the 3-hitter than anywhere else in the line-up. Granted, very little of those came with the Sox, due to the presence of Ramirez/Ortiz and then Bay/Ortiz, but I would like very much to see him get a chance there, especially with that great OBP in front of Youk. Something like:
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Drew
Youkilis
Ortiz / (VMart)
VMart / (Ortiz)
Cameron
Kotchman
Scutaro

I listed the Ortiz and VMart slots like I did because I think that the team at least starts the season like that, but thanks to VMart being a switch hitter it doesn't hurt the line-up construction at all to switch them part way into the season if Ortiz doesn't bounce back the way that we hope he will.

#1199 User is offline   bombdiggz 

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 06:42 PM

Do the Sox NEED a bat?

Assuming that every Red Sox lineup holdovers — Jacoby Ellsbury, Dustin Pedroia, Victor Martinez, Kevin Youkilis, David Ortiz and J.D. Drew — performs at his 2009 level next year, and that Cameron, Kotchman and Scutaro performed at their career averages, the Red Sox starting nine would project (according to the amazing baseballmusings.com Lineup Analysis tool) to score 5.646 runs per game. Over a full year, that would project to a whopping 915 runs.

That is not quite the production that the Sox would get with Bay, Lowell and the team’s season-long shortstop output. Such a group would project to score 5.735 runs a game, or 929 runs over the full year, according to the same Lineup Analysis tool.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/ba...red-sox-lineup/

Not if it costs Clay Buchholz. With the best pitching staff in the game and a much improved defense, I can live with an offense that projects to score more than 900 runs and more than 5 a game. They project Scutaro at his career average which he should outperform. If, Kotchman outperform his career average and Ortiz outperforms his 2009, things are looking eve rosier.

This post has been edited by bombdiggz: 17 December 2009 - 06:51 PM

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#1200 User is offline   Drek717 

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 07:31 PM

QUOTE (One Red Seat @ Dec 17 2009, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't necessarily disagree with the lineups you have proposed and I know you are trying to achieve some R/L balance but, I just don't see Tito hitting Papi 7th. Definitely not out of the gate. It would probably take a pretty prolonged period of suckitude before that would become Papi's normal slot in the order.

I would actually agree. It was more what I'd hope for.

Martinez at #3 is largely because I like his switch hitting bat there as opposed to sandwiched between a R/L pairing (for balance) but it is true that Drew should in reality be the #3 for the purposes of maximizing production.

QUOTE (bombdiggz @ Dec 17 2009, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do the Sox NEED a bat?

Assuming that every Red Sox lineup holdovers — Jacoby Ellsbury, Dustin Pedroia, Victor Martinez, Kevin Youkilis, David Ortiz and J.D. Drew — performs at his 2009 level next year, and that Cameron, Kotchman and Scutaro performed at their career averages, the Red Sox starting nine would project (according to the amazing baseballmusings.com Lineup Analysis tool) to score 5.646 runs per game. Over a full year, that would project to a whopping 915 runs.

That is not quite the production that the Sox would get with Bay, Lowell and the team’s season-long shortstop output. Such a group would project to score 5.735 runs a game, or 929 runs over the full year, according to the same Lineup Analysis tool.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/ba...red-sox-lineup/

Not if it costs Clay Buchholz. With the best pitching staff in the game and a much improved defense, I can live with an offense that projects to score more than 900 runs and more than 5 a game. They project Scutaro at his career average which he should outperform. If, Kotchman outperform his career average and Ortiz outperforms his 2009, things are looking eve rosier.

An important consideration in this comparison is Lowell's massive home/road split.

I ran the numbers with the only change being Lowell at home and Lowell on the road, the runs per game averages where as follows.

Home: 5.879
Away: 5.619

So the average vs. average without the Lowell road factor is -0.089. But breaking it out separately for Lowell its a -0.233 at home, and +0.027 difference on the road.

To me this is both promising and problematic. Our home offense was a key part of having a 56-25 home swing, that is the problem. The promise comes in when you look at Cameron's hit charts which suggests that Fenway might give him a similar home boost that Lowell received.

You could even possibly project that to the other recently acquired right handed bat, Scutaro. With him it gets a bit tricky because while he had a lower home OPS than road OPS the last two years in Toronto than on the road his limited ABs in Fenway for both years don't paint a pretty picture. Maybe a combination of small sample size and quality Sox pitching is skewing the numbers. A righty with his high contact rates and doubles power should benefit from hitting in Fenway, not be hurt by it.

A third potential boon to the home offense is Victor Martinez. He hit better in Fenway than Jacobs Field last year and overall had an away positive split for the season. While he had a drastic home positive split in '08 it was in a much smaller sample and very possibly injury altered. In '07 he had an away positive split as well. It is possible that he not only finds Fenway more friendly to his game, but that just being out of Jacobs field period leads to some uptick in production.

Any or all of these three regulars could see a Fenway boost that brings the home offense closer to the team with Lowell, and at the same time giving a slight bump to the road offense.

This post has been edited by Drek717: 17 December 2009 - 07:33 PM


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