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Random Sox Crap (Sox Thoughts without Threads)


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#51 Lose Remerswaal


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Posted 14 May 2009 - 03:19 PM

I'm pretty sure that the game is in Seattle.

and they wonder why newspapers are dying

#52 trekfan55


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Posted 14 May 2009 - 08:19 PM

QUOTE (LondonSox @ May 14 2009, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
On the Ellsbury, Lugo, Bailey, Green, Bay core of the lineup you mean? Or the normal red sox lineup?


I think that all Sox players eventually succumb to this. New or old.

#53 SoxScout


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Posted 16 May 2009 - 08:17 AM

I thought this was a goody:

QUOTE
The numbers suggest right fielder J.D. Drew is off to an OK start, but this is an instance where the numbers don’t tell the whole story.

After going 3-for-5 with an RBI in last night’s 5-4 loss, Drew is still hitting just .255 with five homers and 19 RBI. But perhaps more than any other player on the team he has run into an incredible streak of bad luck.

Unofficially, the belief around the team is that no one has hit into more hard outs than Drew.

“The frustration builds more than anything,” Drew said. “I can take hitting .240 if I’m not really hitting. But when I’m hitting line drives making outs, where do I go? Just keep grinding it out.

“I’ve been in this position before where I haven’t gotten off to the hottest starts. It’s nice to hit the ball hard, but it’s not nice to make outs. It’s frustrating.”

Against the Angels, Drew was particularly frustrated.

“One at-bat I hit a massive rope to left field,” he said. “Then they’re playing the shift up the middle and, boom, I hit one that the pitcher literally needs to duck under, and then I see the shortstop standing there to make the catch. This is unreal.”

A sign that Drew’s hitting better than his numbers is his production. He’s got an .836 OPS, and 13 of his 22 hits have gone for extra bases.

“I think the big key is to keep squaring balls up,” Drew said. “If they’re outs, they’re outs. If they’re not, then maybe they’re doubles to drive in some runs. I will say it would be nice to have a few more singles (on outs) that would have been hits. It will all work out.”

SEASON

30% K-rate
.319 BABIP

LAST 14 DAYS

34% K-rate
.370 BABIP

LAST 7 DAYS

33% K-rate
.364 BABIP

So why is his BA low, Tomase?


http://www.fangraphs...e...0&type=mini

Edited by SoxScout, 16 May 2009 - 08:26 AM.


#54 Eric Van


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Posted 16 May 2009 - 10:26 AM

QUOTE (SoxScout @ May 16 2009, 07:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BABIP for hitters is not a measure of luck. Drew has the highest LD% of his career and a below-average .765 BABIP on them.

However, it is true that the bad luck on BIP has only cost him a hit or two, while the elevated K rate is the principal cause for the lower BA.

#55 Redkluzu


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Posted 16 May 2009 - 10:28 AM

QUOTE (Eric Van @ May 14 2009, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bay has come up three more times with LI > 2.25 and has doubled (tied the game off of Sowers in the bottom of the 6th on May 7th), homered (game-tying bomb off of Shields in the 6th the next night), and had an RBI groundout that was a positive event by WPA (grounder with the bases loaded that tied the game off of Scott Sheilds two nights ago).

He now has 12 PA with LI > 2.25 and has a perfect record: single, two doubles, three home runs, three walks (one of them intentional), positive WPA SF, and two positive WPA RBI groundouts.


You've probably seen this but thought I'd just mention it for those who haven't because I found it interesting. Can't pretend I really know which system is most reliable historically but Elias ratings has JayBay second behind Greinke, however first in batting; MLB ranks him fourth (Greinke/Pujols/Santana/Bay) after averaging Elias/Inside Edge/Baseball Encyclopedia/ESPN.

Perhaps someone else can weigh in on reliability here?

#56 NYCSox


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Posted 16 May 2009 - 12:08 PM

Jeff Bailey now sports a nifty .108/.267/.216 line against RHP. That is about what you'd expect from a decent hitting pitcher. Why the hell is Carter not playing 1B now?

Even if Bailey was Keith Hernandez defensively, his presence in the lineup against RHP would not be justifiable. Unless he walks or gets plunked, he pretty much kills every inning in which he comes to the plate.

#57 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 16 May 2009 - 01:23 PM

Bailey has been worse than terrible. No one's talking about it; but Kottaras's offense would make Mirabelli blush too (143 / 265 / 214). Lot of folks are happy to see Baldelli in for Papi, yet Baldelli's OPS is a whopping 633, or 15 points higher than Ortiz. Kotsay will likely be getting a lot of the AB's against RH that have been going to Bailey and Baldelli. It's a shame Carter can't play the field. Also too bad that they can't find a role for Van Every.

Tons of injuries and the Papi thing, it's too bad the bench isn't stepping up at all because it seems like the talent is there.

#58 NYCSox


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Posted 16 May 2009 - 01:30 PM

QUOTE (Rudy Pemberton @ May 16 2009, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's a shame Carter can't play the field.


Neither can Bailey.

#59 reggiecleveland


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Posted 16 May 2009 - 01:49 PM

An interesting way of looting at Papi's struggles is the psychological aspect. Ortiz had been the epitome of clutch and seemed able to keep his head on straight to get things done. But his recent struggles have hinted at some (or all) of his slump being the mental side of the game. To me it reminds me of 05 Schilling, in that we saw, fortitude heart, etc were no match for missing physical talent and fitness.

I would bet that 18 months ago this community would have named Ortiz as the player most able to handle adversity and stay on top of things. This is not an indictment of anyone, but just adds to the intrigue of the sad slump our hero is mired in.

#60 Commander Shears

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 03:39 PM

By my count, Josh Beckett has finished a month with 3 wins and a sub-4.00 ERA eight times since 2002 - including four with the Sox (all in '07).

While my math could be off, after a quick glance at the stats I see that he is noticeably behind Pettitte (15), Mussina (13), Martinez (15), Buehrle (21), Lackey (12), R Johnson (13), Hudson (16), Halladay (25) Lowe (16), Glavine (13), Moyer (16), Santana (22), Sabathia (15), and Peavy (15) over that same time period. That's everyone I looked up but I had to stop after I saw that Jamie Moyer has done it thirteen times since turning forty and Roy Halladay has done it seven times since the start of '08. Oy.

I'm thrilled to have him and he's the cat's pajamas in the playoffs, but I'm very curious what ratio of borderline mediocrity to excellence it will take for people to suspect that his 2007 season was the exception and not the norm. 2.2:1 at the moment hasn't raised too many flags.

#61 Rough Carrigan


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Posted 16 May 2009 - 04:27 PM

QUOTE (reggiecleveland @ May 16 2009, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
An interesting way of looting at Papi's struggles is the psychological aspect. Ortiz had been the epitome of clutch and seemed able to keep his head on straight to get things done. But his recent struggles have hinted at some (or all) of his slump being the mental side of the game. To me it reminds me of 05 Schilling, in that we saw, fortitude heart, etc were no match for missing physical talent and fitness.

I would bet that 18 months ago this community would have named Ortiz as the player most able to handle adversity and stay on top of things. This is not an indictment of anyone, but just adds to the intrigue of the sad slump our hero is mired in.

Good point.

And it's part of why I've been puzzled that they refused to drop him to 7th in the order at some point before this. He was mentally strong enough to get those hits against the mfy's in 2004 but he's a delicate flower now? Really?

Also, regarding the mental aspect of the game, there's no more obvious display of its importance than Julio Lugo. He has a 5 hit game and all of a sudden he starts fielding reliably. Did his leg suddenly feel better and so he started hitting and fielding better . . . in just one day? Or did he get some hits and start feeling better about himself and stop overcriticizing himself and choking in the field? I can't help but suspect it's the latter.

Edited by Rough Carrigan, 16 May 2009 - 04:32 PM.


#62 Cuzittt


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Posted 16 May 2009 - 05:11 PM

QUOTE (Rudy Pemberton @ May 16 2009, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Bailey has been worse than terrible. No one's talking about it; but Kottaras's offense would make Mirabelli blush too (143 / 265 / 214). Lot of folks are happy to see Baldelli in for Papi, yet Baldelli's OPS is a whopping 633, or 15 points higher than Ortiz. Kotsay will likely be getting a lot of the AB's against RH that have been going to Bailey and Baldelli. It's a shame Carter can't play the field. Also too bad that they can't find a role for Van Every.


Rudy, Rudy, Rudy....

Baldelli has played in a whopping 9 games. He has five times fewer at bats than Ortiz. Think it might be a tad early to do a comparison between the two?

Kottaras has as many at bats as Rocco Baldelli. And he has to catch Wakefield. Again, too early to say anything other than he has not got it done in his limited appearances.

Jeff Bailey is not hitting well right now. Which sucks and is a problem since he is starting every day. It may be an indication that he isn't good at the MLB level... or it might be a slump. Unfortunately, it doesn't much matter which one it is at this point... he is making the bottom of the lineup even more of a hole than it is normally.

Van Every went back to Pawtucket and went 4/28 with a double and a HR. Yeah, he had some hits with the Red Sox.... doesn't mean it was going to continue.

As much as it pains us to look at numbers that suck... especially when the team is struggling... we do have to be very mindful of how these numbers are generated. While the reality is that no one's numbers are all that significant yet... Ortiz and Varitek's particular brand of suck have much more significance than Baldelli and Kottaras.

[If anyone is not being talked about enough... it is Varitek, BTW. .225/.310/.422 is not good... and his slugging is in Free Fall mode... he is at .190/.255/.262 for the month of May. But... 2 weeks is a small sample.]


#63 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 16 May 2009 - 05:22 PM

Fair enough regarding Van Every, just liked that he could play the field but he does strike out a ton and probably isn't a major league caliber player, offensively. Baldelli is a guy that's tough to get a great read on because he's never healthy, but his impatience at the plate is frustrating. Tek has certainly been a problem lately, which makes Kottaras poor start infuriating. It's a tiny sample, but thus far George looks like the same offensive black hole that Cash and Belli (at the end), was. Bailey has clearly looked awful in every way. Not suggesting that these samples mean the bench will suck the entire year, but's maddening that a bunch of guys have been given opportunities and pretty much all flopped.

#64 SoxScout


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Posted 16 May 2009 - 10:26 PM

QUOTE
The Red Sox will scout out some potential bats, but right now they are not going to trade Clay Buchholz and won't discuss Michael Bowden (the two pitchers have a combined 1.04 ERA at Pawtucket) unless the bat they get is very young. The Nationals have let it be known that Nick Johnson is available, but Boston won't trade Buchholz. The Sox have looked at some outfielders like Ryan Spilborghs and Matt Murton, but the asking price continues to be their young starting pitching. If Ortiz is struggling come July, they may change their minds. Clubs will soon be asking for left-hander Nick Hagadone, who threw 98 this week in extended spring coming off Tommy John, but Boston won't trade him. They will bring him along carefully and not rush him to the majors this season as a David Price-style September addition.

Boston might be willing to move Manny Delcarmen, who might be able to close in the National League, but they'd trade him only for a significant bat. Incidentally, one scout says Ramon Ramirez "may be the best trade of the offseason. He could easily close if anything happened to Jonathan Papelbon."
http://sports.espn.g...e=gammons_peter

#65 reggiecleveland


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Posted 17 May 2009 - 12:46 AM

QUOTE (Commander Shears @ May 16 2009, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
By my count, Josh Beckett has finished a month with 3 wins and a sub-4.00 ERA eight times since 2002 - including four with the Sox (all in '07).

While my math could be off, after a quick glance at the stats I see that he is noticeably behind Pettitte (15), Mussina (13), Martinez (15), Buehrle (21), Lackey (12), R Johnson (13), Hudson (16), Halladay (25) Lowe (16), Glavine (13), Moyer (16), Santana (22), Sabathia (15), and Peavy (15) over that same time period. That's everyone I looked up but I had to stop after I saw that Jamie Moyer has done it thirteen times since turning forty and Roy Halladay has done it seven times since the start of '08. Oy.

I'm thrilled to have him and he's the cat's pajamas in the playoffs, but I'm very curious what ratio of borderline mediocrity to excellence it will take for people to suspect that his 2007 season was the exception and not the norm. 2.2:1 at the moment hasn't raised too many flags.


He has been mediocre more than he has been great that is for sure. This is the third year out of 4 in Boston where he has been pretty average or worse. Tonight he again had spotty control and got away with some bad pitches up in the zone.

#66 P'tucket, rhymes with...


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Posted 17 May 2009 - 09:16 AM

QUOTE (Rudy Pemberton @ May 16 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tek has certainly been a problem lately, which makes Kottaras poor start infuriating. It's a tiny sample, but thus far George looks like the same offensive black hole that Cash and Belli (at the end), was.


Kottaras has had a terrible start offensively. He's also a rookie charged with catching the most challenging pitcher on the staff (who also happens to be the anchor of the rotation thus far), and he's done a pretty credible job. Kottaras' offense may well pick up some over time; given the choice between what George has done thus far and Josh Bard's start in '06 (.278 BA, 1,429 passed balls), I know which one I'd rather have. The Kottaras who can handle the defensive end and can also jump out of the gate offensively doesn't exist; if he did, Tek would be in Natstown! as we speak.

Edit--Mods, is there a "bench performance" thread here?

Edited by P'tucket, rhymes with..., 17 May 2009 - 12:52 PM.


#67 joyofsox


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Posted 17 May 2009 - 11:36 AM

Some time ago, we had a thread devoted to helping posters identify which pitches were being thrown. Some are easy to ID, but many are not, at least for me. And while I try to read up on it, a lot the fx data makes me glaze over.

I recall there was also info like "MDC usually only throws his x-seamer inside to RHB" and stuff like that. I liked that stuff a lot.

What happened to that thread? And if it's gone, can someone start a new one?


#68 DieHardSoxFan1


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Posted 17 May 2009 - 12:34 PM

QUOTE (SoxScout @ May 16 2009, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I really think Nick Johnson is an interesting option for the Sox. Johnson, a left-handed batter, is currently hitting .326/..409/.432 for the lovely Washington Nationals. He touts a .378 wOBA, and is an excellent defender at first base. Of course Johnson is considerably prone to injury, having tallied 500 ABs in a season just once in his career (2006), but acquiring the first baseman would provide the Sox with a legitimate weapon off the bench and insurance for Mike Lowell's tenuous hip (not to mention David Ortiz's shaky bat). Plenty of us here are familiar with the Nationals' pitching woes, so any package would have to include some of the Sox' minor league arms.

Edited by DieHardSoxFan1, 17 May 2009 - 05:30 PM.


#69 Trautwein's Degree


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Posted 17 May 2009 - 01:13 PM

The players music selection is interesting. For a complete list check out Red Sox Insider Blog (comments are mine):

Pedroia - "Dre Day", Dr. Dre (little man, badass)
Ortiz - "Somos De Calle", Daddy Yankee; "My Destiny" by Yomo (yankee daddy, hehehe)
Bay - "Alive", Pearl Jam (clearly)
Green - "Bet That", Trick Daddy; "I Run", Slim Thug (Boston's first white boy gangsta rap double play combo)
Baldelli - "All Along The Watchtower", Jimi Hendrix; (Who says people from RI lack taste?)

Pitchers:
Matsuzaka - "The Next Door", Exile (theme to Street Fighter IV!)
Okajima - "The Oki-Doki", Tatami
Delcarmen - "I'm From Boston", MAV Entertainment (in case we forgot)
Beckett - "Living Hard", Gary Allan (maybe that's why you're fat and can't pitch)


If you were to go out for icecream with JD Drew, is there any chance he orders something besides vanilla?

Drew - (no music by choice)

Edited by Trautwein's Degree, 17 May 2009 - 01:19 PM.


#70 Andrew


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Posted 17 May 2009 - 01:16 PM

QUOTE (Trautwein's Degree @ May 17 2009, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you were to go out for icecream with JD Drew, is there any chance he orders something besides vanilla?

Drew - (no music by choice)


Are you kidding me? That's badass.

#71 mikeford


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Posted 17 May 2009 - 06:36 PM

QUOTE (Trautwein's Degree @ May 17 2009, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The players music selection is interesting. For a complete list check out Red Sox Insider Blog

Mike Lowell not coming out to "Iron Man" by Sabbath anymore is depressing. So are all his double plays.

#72 paulftodd


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Posted 17 May 2009 - 06:59 PM

QUOTE (Cuzittt @ May 17 2009, 06:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[If anyone is not being talked about enough... it is Varitek, BTW. .225/.310/.422 is not good... and his slugging is in Free Fall mode... he is at .190/.255/.262 for the month of May. But... 2 weeks is a small sample.]


The market already discounted Variteks suck and he is down near the bottom of the order where he can not hurt as much, and he plays only 80% of the games, and his back up is even worse.

Varitek still has more RBI (16), HR (5) and XBH (14) than our # 3 hitter.

While he had a bad start to May, his slugging is up to 354 in May with his HR and double the past 2 days.

And look at the bright side, No GIDP, unlike Lowell and Pedroia who have combined for a league leading 20, at an astounding 30% rate

If Teks bat is the difference between winning and losing, the team is in big trouble.

And except for Green, the bench has not done a real good job. The defense at SS is a big concern, as is the starting pitching. Lowell has also had a drop off in May and with the way he is running you have to be worried about that hip over the course of a long season (May 261/294/415/709 vs a 912 OPS in April)

Teks bat is like #10 on the list of things to be concerned about if you ask me.

Edited by paulftodd, 17 May 2009 - 07:03 PM.


#73 paulftodd


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Posted 17 May 2009 - 07:12 PM

QUOTE (DieHardSoxFan1 @ May 18 2009, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I really think Nick Johnson is an interesting option for the Sox. Johnson, a left-handed batter, is currently hitting .326/..409/.432 for the lovely Washington Nationals. He touts a .378 wOBA, and is an excellent defender at first base. Of course Johnson is considerably prone to injury, having tallied 500 ABs in a season just once in his career (2006), but acquiring the first baseman would provide the Sox with a legitimate weapon off the bench and insurance for Mike Lowell's tenuous hip (not to mention David Ortiz's shaky bat). Plenty of us here are familiar with the Nationals' pitching woes, so any package would have to include some of the Sox' minor league arms.


Given that he is a free agent I imagine the Nationals would be willing to dump him at some point pretty cheap. I would not give up too much for him though, his past injury history must be considered.

#74 SoxScout


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Posted 17 May 2009 - 11:32 PM

QUOTE (paulftodd @ May 17 2009, 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Given that he is a free agent I imagine the Nationals would be willing to dump him at some point pretty cheap. I would not give up too much for him though, his past injury history must be considered.


Well in the Nick Johnson sentence, he specifically says the Sox wont trade Buchholz... did that mean that is what they asked for, because that is mind-boggling. The other name is Delcarmen, but he won't be traded unless it is for a "significant bat". I'd say Johnson's bat gets more significant every day that Ortiz sucks, but every day that passes is a day he is closer to being a free agent and I don't see Theo being happy about that return..... even in going for a WS.

A lesser option, Russell Branyan will be on the market when the Mariners sell off Bedard, ect. Guy rakes RHP.

It sucks over the last few years we are having all these players having off the field issues screwing with them mentally... Drew, Tek, now Ortiz.

Edited by SoxScout, 17 May 2009 - 11:33 PM.


#75 E5 Yaz


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Posted 17 May 2009 - 11:46 PM

The problem, of course, is that acquiring a Johnson/Branyan/Huff-type doesn't really solve anything. You'd still have Papi on the roster, and if you aren't playing him it's as useless as a roster spot as can be. They can't trade him, they won't cut him, and the chances of a mysterious injury ending his season would be circumspect. So what does acquiring a DH/1B type do, beyond having a negative impact on the roster and perhaps being a clubhouse distraction?

From what I could see on this road trip, it came down to being able to hit with RISP. The squanders were epic, which magnified the defensive shortcomings, which in turn made the starting pitching look worse than it might have been, which put the hitters into the predicament of being in must situations anytime there was a runner on base.

Regular Season Tito also made a few too many appearances. Injuries are out of his control, but trying to steal outs with starters approaching their shelf-life really hurt them 3-4 times. A small thing today was in the top of the ninth. he was willing to take Tek out of the game after the double, which I thought was a good move under the circumstances. But he wasn't willing to put Velasquez into the field in the bottom of the ninth for defense, when he knew one mistake could lead to the losing run.

It was a frustrating tip on any number of levels, made worse by the Twins doing their annual buttbuddy bendover in New York.

#76 SoxScout


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 12:41 AM

Well, I think we'd all be happier with a DH that is hitting and a wasted roster spot than a middle of the order bat not doing anything. Of course these are drastic measures that will go away if Ortiz has a nice week, but they could become real possibilities as May ends and the first few weeks of summer pass.

Also, it sounds like there could be a big lineup shakeup. Francona is meeting with Ortiz tonight on the flight about how to reintroduce him to the lineup. When asked by reporters if Ortiz would bat 3rd he said that he wanted to talk to Ortiz before making any decisions public.

Forgetting Tuesday, what will it look like when Youkilis is back Wednesday? I know I want this:

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Drew
Bay
Youkils
Ortiz
Lowell
Varitek
Lugo

Drew looks real good at the plate right now and it will be nice for Bay and Youk to have some big time OBP guys in front of them to drive in. I don't want Ortiz making outs in front of one of our studs if he is 5th, so reintroduce him 6th. If he gets hits, he wont care where he is batting. If he gets hot, you can move him back up if you want. If he stays icy, then it is better there then 3rd.

#77 E5 Yaz


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 01:20 AM

I wouldn't be surprised at all at seeing Papi hitting 5th or 6th on Tuesday. The Herald story phrases it in terms of Ortiz meeting with Francona to "determine how to best reintroduce him in the lineup."

http://www.bostonher...l...&position=1

But it's more than just Ortiz, and with four decent teams in the division, they need to play sharper baseball.

#78 OttoC


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 06:26 AM

The Red Sox have a total of three home runs from the first three spots in the order--one from each spot. Ellsbury's SLG is down about 20 points from last year even though his batting average is up by about 20 points. Pedroia's SLG is down about 75 points from last year's mark. Ortiz's SLG is about half of what he hit as a Red Sox player coming into this year. The number eight spot in the line-up has been about as big of a hole as the number three spot.

.275/.364/.451/.815 Red Sox batters
.287/.266/.456/.822 Red Sox starting pitchers allowed
not including yesterday's game

A relief pitcher is tied for the team lead in wins.

In the 33 games since Lowrie went down with injury, the Red Sox shortstops have committed 11 errors and participated in just 12 double plays.

The Red Sox season can be divided into three parts, thus far:
W-L
2-6 Games 1-8
11-0 Games 9-19
9-10 Games 20-38


Yet, the team is 22-16, overall. There has been some smoke and mirrors. There have been key injuries and I think the starters will start regressing to their means and maybe Ortiz will come back, but this team has some holes. I sometimes think that the $100 million plus they sunk into Matsuzaka could have better been spent elsewhere (Teixeira, signing Pedro Alvarez) but perhaps the long-term benefits of enticing other players from Japan to sign may make it worthwhile.

If I were running the club, I would think about trading Josh Beckett. He's still under 30 and under control (Red Sox option for $12M inn 2010). Bring up Buchholz or Bowden. One problem with the Red Sox is that they don't have many players from the starting line-up who are tradeable if they bring in a position player. Ortiz? Big question mark. Lowell? Can't run. Lugo? Viewed as a fire sale. Drew? Going on 34 and injury-prone. Varitek? Seemingly lost his bat. That leaves Bay, Youkilis, Pedroia, and Ellsbury, and as much as I hate to admit it (with flashbacks to the 2007 season's end). Ellsbury is the most expendable of those four.

While I'm not normally a proposer of trades, I think Beckett, Ellsbury, and a buck or two for Hanley Ramirez would be something I would explore. If necessary, I would consider adding Bard to the package as long as Florida sweetened their end a little.



#79 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 08:07 AM

QUOTE
I sometimes think that the $100 million plus they sunk into Matsuzaka could have better been spent elsewhere (Teixeira, signing Pedro Alvarez) but perhaps the long-term benefits of enticing other players from Japan to sign may make it worthwhile.


This is a curious statement. There's just no evidence that lack of money is what caused the Sox to miss out on Teixeira; they valued him highly, offered him a ton, and he took more from the Yankees. The Sox could have offered him more; I just don't think they wanted to surpass their estimation of his value. Re: Pedro Alvarez, again...was the money the Sox gave years later to Dice-K the reason they didn't sign him? Of course not. It's like saying that the Sox should have used the money they spent on Matt Clement to sign Teixeira when they drafted him.

I would be open to the idea of trading Beckett but I don't see it likely that the Marlins would be interested in acquiring him in a move where they give up Hanley Ramirez, it's just a non-sensical move for them.

#80 NDame616


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 08:22 AM

QUOTE (OttoC @ May 18 2009, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I sometimes think that the $100 million plus they sunk into Matsuzaka could have better been spent elsewhere (Teixeira, signing Pedro Alvarez) but perhaps the long-term benefits of enticing other players from Japan to sign may make it worthwhile.


I think it's the wrong time of the year to make that statement. DiceK and Youks are both out and both returning shortly. There were many comparasions during the Teixeira saga this winter that the differences between him and Youks certainly don't justify the difference in salary.

DiceK is a year removed frmo going 18-3 with a sub 3 ERA. He was anywhere from our ace to #3 last year, depending on how you want to spin it and was 4th in the Cy Young. Youkilis had an MVP caliber season last season.

Having DiceK on this team instead of Teixeira and Alvarez won't help our offensive black hole at SS, C and DH. It also won't help Beckett and Lester figure out what's wrong with them, and it won't help our little leagues fielding grounders at shortstop.


#81 DaughtersofDougMirabelli

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 08:47 AM

QUOTE (OttoC @ May 18 2009, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While I'm not normally a proposer of trades, I think Beckett, Ellsbury, and a buck or two for Hanley Ramirez would be something I would explore. If necessary, I would consider adding Bard to the package as long as Florida sweetened their end a little.

I think at this point any trade in which the Red Sox acquire Hanley Ramirez and don't give up Buchholz/Bowden + Lars + Ellsbury/Lowrie is just a fanboy day dream. Beckett's '09 salary is already twice that of '09 Hanley's and his '10 salary would be 33% of their current payroll. Even by the Marlins standards Hanley's salary doesn't become a burden until at least '11 ($11 M), so IMO a trade involving Hanley would be much much more than Beckett+Ellsbury and cash.

#82 Foulkey Reese


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 08:49 AM

Beckett's ERA+ since he came to Boston is 111. You don't trade Hanley Ramirez for pitchers like that.




#83 Cuzittt


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 08:52 AM

QUOTE (E5 Yaz @ May 18 2009, 12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But he wasn't willing to put Velasquez into the field in the bottom of the ninth for defense, when he knew one mistake could lead to the losing run.


Gil Velazquez is on this team simply because someone has to play the role of Nick Green while Nick Green plays the role of Jed Lowrie. In other words, Velazquez is up here because he plays many positions... not because he is a great defensive player. He may be a better defensive SS than Nick Green, but if he is it is a marginal difference.

For what it is worth (very little, IMO), Gil committed 5 errors at Shortstop in Pawtucket this year. In 11 games.

#84 Carl Everetts Therapist


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 08:55 AM

QUOTE (Foulkey Reese @ May 18 2009, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Beckett's ERA+ since he came to Boston is 111. You don't trade Hanley Ramirez for pitchers like that.




Why on Earth would the Marlins even consider trading Hanley Ramirez now? You'd have to overpay with so much young pitching (which they already have by the way) not to mention any position player besides Kalish would leave a hole in our already thin lineup...... They wouldn't want Beckett not just because he isn't putting up stellar numbers but because he makes about a third of what Florida's entire payroll makes.

#85 Lollardfish

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 08:59 AM

QUOTE (DaughtersofDougMirabelli @ May 18 2009, 08:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think at this point any trade in which the Red Sox acquire Hanley Ramirez and don't give up Buchholz/Bowden + Lars + Ellsbury/Lowrie is just a fanboy day dream. Beckett's '09 salary is already twice that of '09 Hanley's and his '10 salary would be 33% of their current payroll. Even by the Marlins standards Hanley's salary doesn't become a burden until at least '11 ($11 M), so IMO a trade involving Hanley would be much much more than Beckett+Ellsbury and cash.


Hanley isn't being traded.

That one could even speculate about it does, however, point to the need for SS that we all recognize. What isn't clear to me is who might be available who represents a clear upgrade. To be tempting a SS must both be, you know, good, and either quite expensive or about to be a FA for a non-contending team. When I look through major-league rosters, I see no obvious candidate (no "2004 O-Cab" type).

From Cot's 2010 expected FA list:

QUOTE
Shortstops
Orlando Cabrera OAK
Bobby Crosby OAK
Adam Everett DET
Alex Gonzalez * CIN
Khalil Greene STL
John McDonald TOR
Marco Scutaro TOR
Miguel Tejada HOU
Jack Wilson * PIT


Scutaro has been outstanding this year, but no one ought to believe that it will continue, and if it does, our division rival isn't trading him to Boston.

Miguel Tejada has been tearing the cover off the ball lately, but I am certainly concerned about his fielding (-4.3 UZR so far this year, though SSS caveats apply). Will Houston fall far enough behind to consider trading him? He is expensive at 13M. OTOH, I'm assuming he'll be a type-A FA, so the Red Sox will have to pay over the value of extra draft picks.

Who else is there?

#86 OttoC


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 09:26 AM

A Beckett, etc.,/Hanley Ramirez trade may be a pipe dream, but the fact is that there is little they can do in the trade market without giving up there best prospects because Ortiz, Lowell, Drew, and Varitek are virtually untradeable. Trading Youkilis, say, for himself doesn't solve any problems. They could write the season off, take what they get and cry loudly about all their bad breaks, hoping they can dump some of their "untradeables" to needy pennant-chasing teams. The fan-base would probably buy that, but they would have to rebuild over the winter and the farm system doesn't seem to have many answers, yet.

#87 Rudy Pemberton


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 09:34 AM

Why would the Red Sox "write the season off"? It just makes no sense. This team has tons of talent, it just needs to get some guys healthy and others playing better. I mean, if a Beckett for Reyes trade was out there, I think the Sox would consider it but any kind of deal that is about the future doesn't seem probable or make sense to me. This is a good team; a 2-4 road trip doesn't change that.

#88 Eric Van


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 09:41 AM

I don't think they're trading for any SS until they find out just how good Jed Lowrie really is. Which might be really, really, fucking good.

If you want to daydream about positions that might be upgraded by a big trade, the obvious places are 1B (via Youkilis to 3B) and DH and maybe LF (via Bay to DH).



#89 Philip Jeff Frye


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 09:48 AM

QUOTE (OttoC @ May 18 2009, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I were running the club, I would think about trading Josh Beckett. He's still under 30 and under control (Red Sox option for $12M inn 2010). Bring up Buchholz or Bowden. One problem with the Red Sox is that they don't have many players from the starting line-up who are tradeable if they bring in a position player. Ortiz? Big question mark. Lowell? Can't run. Lugo? Viewed as a fire sale. Drew? Going on 34 and injury-prone. Varitek? Seemingly lost his bat. That leaves Bay, Youkilis, Pedroia, and Ellsbury, and as much as I hate to admit it (with flashbacks to the 2007 season's end). Ellsbury is the most expendable of those four.

I wouldn't see any of these guys as being potential trade candidates, other than Ellsbury as part of a deal for a great CF, or maybe shifting dollars around (ie something like Lowell going to the Mets as part of a bigger trade for Wright). The trading chits are going to be Bowden, Bard, Buchholz, Anderson, etc...

#90 ctsoxfan5

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 09:50 AM

QUOTE (OttoC @ May 18 2009, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They could write the season off, take what they get and cry loudly about all their bad breaks, hoping they can dump some of their "untradeables" to needy pennant-chasing teams. The fan-base would probably buy that, but they would have to rebuild over the winter and the farm system doesn't seem to have many answers, yet.


Huh? Despite their struggles, they are still on pace to win 94 games. They have the 3rd best record in the AL (behind Toronto and Texas - two teams I'd be surprised to see winning 90+ games), and the 4th best run differential in the AL.

#91 John DiFool

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 09:58 AM

QUOTE (OttoC @ May 18 2009, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Red Sox have a total of three home runs from the first three spots in the order--one from each spot. Ellsbury's SLG is down about 20 points from last year even though his batting average is up by about 20 points. Pedroia's SLG is down about 75 points from last year's mark.


For Pedroia, I'll trade some power for those extra walks he's drawing.

#92 P'tucket, rhymes with...


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:20 AM

QUOTE (Eric Van @ May 18 2009, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think they're trading for any SS until they find out just how good Jed Lowrie really is. Which might be really, really, fucking good.

If you want to daydream about positions that might be upgraded by a big trade, the obvious places are 1B (via Youkilis to 3B) and DH and maybe LF (via Bay to DH).


This begs the question of what to do with the leftover furniture. Lowell will be overpaid for whatever productivity he has left over the next season and a half, he's a GIDP machine this year and his range looks to be fading fast. Ortiz is....well, anyways. I don't think either would be very happy campers as bench players, even if you wanted to pay them to do that. That's $25m of bad contracts for next year plus the balance of this year (if they make the move) to eat.

#93 SoxScout


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:35 AM

QUOTE
The Indians' position on trading catcher Victor Martinez is similar to their position on trading left-hander Cliff Lee, and perhaps even more uncompromising. The Indians are not looking to move either player. They would gauge interest only if they fell completely out of contention. And even then, they doubt that any club would offer enough value in return. Among rival clubs, however, there is a growing expectation that the Indians soon might explore the market for Martinez, a switch-hitter who leads the majors with a .401 batting average.
QUOTE
At least one club the Red Sox already has been in contact with the Indians about Martinez, according to two major-league sources. The teams had a specific conversation about a month ago that involved premium players on both sides, but the talks failed to progress, a third source said.
QUOTE
The Indians would want an elite pitching prospect at the level of Braves Class AAA right-hander Tommy Hanson as the centerpiece of a trade for either Lee or Martinez. The Sox could offer Class AAA right-hander Clay Buchholz, but not all teams view him as a potential top-of-the-rotation starter.

Buchholz, though, would be only one moving piece. The Red Sox could dangle numerous others who might interest the Indians, including hard-throwing reliever Daniel Bard and Class AA first baseman Lars Anderson.
http://msn.foxsports...-but-would-they?

#94 BCsMightyJoeYoung

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 10:59 AM

QUOTE (SoxScout @ May 18 2009, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I know this is just a reporter's musings on possible players in the talks ..

Martinez can mash - but he's a pretty poor defensive catcher by all accounts and his future is at 1B (or DH) .. I can see Bowden or Bard (not both) being traded for him - I think this FO only trades Buchholz or Anderson for a true star (eg. Hanley, Reyes etc)

[edit: I can't type]

Edited by BCsMightyJoeYoung, 18 May 2009 - 10:59 AM.


#95 normstalls

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 02:57 PM

The Red Sox lead the majors with 43 GDP. The league average right now is 28 (AL average is 30)
They hit into 147 last year and are on pace to hit into 183 this year. Absolutely brutal.


I suppose this is the obvious down side to constructing a lineup around slow hitters with high obp


#96 pokey_reese


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 03:04 PM

QUOTE (normstalls @ May 18 2009, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Red Sox lead the majors with 43 GDP. The league average right now is 28 (AL average is 30)
They hit into 147 last year and are on pace to hit into 183 this year. Absolutely brutal.

I suppose this is the obvious down side to constructing a lineup around slow hitters with high obp


The biggest part of this is Mike Lowell, who has already GIDP 11 times after a total of 14 last season. We have all seen him jogging slowly to first, and that isn't likely to improve any time soon, given how often he hits with men on base. He should (sadly) be skewing this particular stat for us all year.

#97 TheYaz67

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 04:50 PM

QUOTE (pokey_reese @ May 18 2009, 04:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The biggest part of this is Mike Lowell, who has already GIDP 11 times after a total of 14 last season. We have all seen him jogging slowly to first, and that isn't likely to improve any time soon, given how often he hits with men on base. He should (sadly) be skewing this particular stat for us all year.


Well, to be fair, Pedroia and his 9 GIDP also say hello - the two of them account for almost half the team's total. Pedroia also had only 17 in all of last year, so he is "on pace" to shatter that number...

#98 Mugsys Jock


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 05:33 PM

QUOTE (Eric Van @ May 18 2009, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think they're trading for any SS until they find out just how good Jed Lowrie really is. Which might be really, really, fucking good.

If you want to daydream about positions that might be upgraded by a big trade, the obvious places are 1B (via Youkilis to 3B) and DH and maybe LF (via Bay to DH).

Victor Martinez could help address 1B and/or DH. Oh yeah, and he catches... not that we need any help there.

I don't want to go all NYYfans on this, but if one were to spend a high-end pitching prospect or two, this seems like a useful and not completely impossible way to go about it.

#99 paulftodd


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Posted 18 May 2009 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE (TheYaz67 @ May 19 2009, 05:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, to be fair, Pedroia and his 9 GIDP also say hello - the two of them account for almost half the team's total. Pedroia also had only 17 in all of last year, so he is "on pace" to shatter that number...


He has also been caught stealing 3 times this year (vs only once last year).

#100 puffyme

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 06:12 PM

QUOTE (OttoC @ May 18 2009, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A Beckett, etc.,/Hanley Ramirez trade may be a pipe dream, but the fact is that there is little they can do in the trade market without giving up there best prospects because Ortiz, Lowell, Drew, and Varitek are virtually untradeable. Trading Youkilis, say, for himself doesn't solve any problems. They could write the season off, take what they get and cry loudly about all their bad breaks, hoping they can dump some of their "untradeables" to needy pennant-chasing teams. The fan-base would probably buy that, but they would have to rebuild over the winter and the farm system doesn't seem to have many answers, yet.


Little over reaction! Why in the world would the Sox write of the season when they are in second place whentheir top starting 3 have been sub par their dh has done nothing and the have had more then their fair share of injuries.