45 replies to this topic

[OilCanShotTupac]

I want to make the choice as stark as possible - no wiggle room.

If you're reading this, you probably despise A-Rod, and the Yankees too.

If you heard the press conference - giving him the maximum benefit of the doubt, and every possible favorable inference, and putting aside your dislike of him and his team -

did he help himself?

[Foulkey Reese]

No.

If my mind he continued to make it worse.

[jodyreeddudley78]

No, but one of the things that continues to stick with me is that virtually no player can come completely clean in this whole ordeal. Any 100% honest admission will likely include naming players that are not currently outed, thus further ostracizing the player admitting the abuse in the process. I think this is why we have stories like this, where it is a mystery cousin aiding him. Whoever this guy is has likely been prepped and has a coinciding story. Unless everyone that abused is named (which will never happen), you will never get a completely honest story.

[Redline13]

What's the point of even asking? If you didn't like the guy before you certainly can find something he said today to further your distaste of him. The fact is that for the rest of his career (life?) he is in a no win situation. If he plays out the rest of his contract and wins a couple of rings while breaking HR records people will say that he had chemical help and the benefit of playing on the Yankees. If his teams never wins a World Series and he fails to preform to historical standards he will be deemed a massive failure. As he would say he "made his bed and now he has to sit on it".

[Euclis20]

ESPN has asked this very question on their homepage, and they included a "had no effect" answer. The results:

http://sports.espn.g...mp;pollId=67722

[bsj]

42% on ESPN think he helped himself?

With THAT????

Are you kidding me?

Andy Pettitte did it right. You NEVER heard him brought up in the roid talk any more, because he admitted to it without the tapdancing. No one else gets it.

Edited by bsj, 17 February 2009 - 04:59 PM.

[crow216]

I'll take the bate. He helped himself in 2 ways. One is that he won't have to answer questions about the type of steroid and really about the steroids themselves. Two is that the focus is going to shift from is arod a cheater to is arod a liar. The answer to both is yes but people are gonna go on this quest to find Arod's cousin that isn't going to lead anywhere. Unless the news reporters look for every cousin he has and then single out the ones that went from DR from 01-03....it's gonna lead nowhere. So the public is gonna call him a lying pansy for a few weeks and eventually it's just gonna turn into baseball with the occasional steroid controversial question. Unless Selena Roberts has some new stuff in the book about who gave him the roids, there's not much else for Arod to talk about.

[8 and 9 in Left]

A-Rod's anonymous "cousin" = dog at his homework, and the public will ridicule him accordingly, which bothers A-Rod more than it does most athletes.

No, he didn't help himself today.

[cheesypoofs]

42% on ESPN think he helped himself?

With THAT????

Are you kidding me?

Andy Pettitte did it right. You NEVER heard him brought up in the roid talk any more, because he admitted to it without the tapdancing. No one else gets it.

My inner Oliver Stone suspects that one of the functions of a highly-paid PR "War Room" might just be manipulating polls and planting posters on high traffic websites. I know it's probably crazy, but the alternative is to face the fact that there really ARE people that stupid out there, and that some of them have drivers' licenses and guns. And kids.

[InsideTheParker]

I have been skipping around to various sports stations carried over the 'net by AOL Radio, and judging from them, the answer is NO.

[BOS2002]

Yes he did help himself. You know why?
Look at the way other PED-alleged players reacted and faired. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Tejada, Palmeiro, Clemens. They all lied and they are basically screwed. 4 of those guys have Congress on their asses. Meanwhile PettiTTe and Giambi BOTH (kinda) admitted taking it and they barely have to talk about it. Granted these ''questions'' about A-Rod will last for probably another month or two, after that its baseball time and he will return to being a baseball prick. So yes, he helped himself by admitting it and providing some further detail. Do you honestly expect him to say ''Im taking HGH/I took roids as a Yankee''? Seriously thats not realistic. He did his job.

[yep]

No, but one of the things that continues to stick with me is that virtually no player can come completely clean in this whole ordeal...

Sure they can. There is nothing wrong with telling the truth, including truthfully saying, "don't ask me to rat out the people who got me the drugs and who showed me how to use them, because I won't. This is 100% on me." That's not only honest, but honorable. Especially if there is a penalty for doing so. What is weaselly and un-manly is blaming your Dad or your anonymous cousin from the DR or your lack of a college education and trying to paint yourself as half a victim.

[ifmanis5]

No.

If my mind he continued to make it worse.

This.


Only upside, he hooked up with Don.

[mrsbeasley]

No.

If my mind he continued to make it worse.

Absolutely not.

I was worried that he would come across as likable and folks would feel sorry for him. But I agree, I think he made it worse.

[jodyreeddudley78]

Sure they can. There is nothing wrong with telling the truth, including truthfully saying, "don't ask me to rat out the people who got me the drugs and who showed me how to use them, because I won't. This is 100% on me." That's not only honest, but honorable. Especially if there is a penalty for doing so. What is weaselly and un-manly is blaming your Dad or your anonymous cousin from the DR or your lack of a college education and trying to paint yourself as half a victim.

So, being 100% truthful doesn't include telling everyone where you got the drugs, who showed you where to get them, who injected them into you, and what you mean by the whole sport being "loosey goosey"? How is that being completely honest? Sometimes being honest means being a rat. You can't have it both ways, which is kind of what A Rod is trying to do, isn't it?

I'm not trying to be an apologist, and the whole cousin thing is likely A Rod's way of answering all of those questions. As I said, I'm sure the cousin has been properly prepped and compensated. I just think it is somewhat naive to expect the whole truth out of anyone at this point, short of a court order. Just look at what that did for Radomski's relationships.

Edited by jodyreeddudley78, 17 February 2009 - 05:47 PM.

[geoduck no quahog]

One is that he won't have to answer questions about the type of steroid and really about the steroids themselves. Two is that the focus is going to shift from is arod a cheater to is arod a liar.

Wrong. Wrong.

He said his cousin bought "boli" OTC. You don't think reporters are going to look into "boli" and find out everything about it? He tested positive for testosterone also. Does "boli" contain testosterone? It better. Is there any evidence he didn't keep using through 2004 . Just his word, which has already proven to be useless (per your 2nd sentence). His description of usage, injection and substances included in "boli" had better conform to what investigative reporters are going to eventually find out about the stuff. This is going to be one of the biggest questions ongoing.

His obfuscation about statistics relative to the years he admitted cheating will also only lead to more questions. I haven't h eard anyone address the fact that the three admitted years are 3 of the 4 highest years of AB's. That might seem minor, but along with the power aspects of cheating with PED's is recovery from injury. How many AB's would he have missed if he hadn't cheated and been as subject to nagging injuries?

[Rocco Graziosa]

42% on ESPN think he helped himself?

With THAT????

Are you kidding me?

Andy Pettitte did it right. You NEVER heard him brought up in the roid talk any more, because he admitted to it without the tapdancing. No one else gets it.

Admitted it with no tapdancing? Your joking right? Andy Pettitte would have us believe he used steroids ONE time and not to enhance performance but to return from injury faster and help his teamattes. He never said how he got the drug, who he got the drug from and how often he used the drug during the "one time" period of abuse. Thats not "getting it" and its whole hell of a lot of tapdancing.

Say what you want about AHole, but at least he was more forthcoming than Andy Frickin Pettitte.

Edited by Rocco Graziosa, 17 February 2009 - 05:54 PM.

[Doctor G]

Wrong. Wrong.

He said his cousin bought "boli" OTC. You don't think reporters are going to look into "boli" and find out everything about it? He tested positive for testosterone also. Does "boli" contain testosterone? It better. Is there any evidence he didn't keep using through 2004 . Just his word, which has already proven to be useless (per your 2nd sentence). His description of usage, injection and substances included in "boli" had better conform to what investigative reporters are going to eventually find out about the stuff. This is going to be one of the biggest questions ongoing.

His obfuscation about statistics relative to the years he admitted cheating will also only lead to more questions. I haven't h eard anyone address the fact that the three admitted years are 3 of the 4 highest years of AB's. That might seem minor, but along with the power aspects of cheating with PED's is recovery from injury. How many AB's would he have missed if he hadn't cheated and been as subject to nagging injuries?

His strategy appears to be to minimize the relative effectiveness of his steroid regimen. He wants to put as much distance as possible between himself and the Balco type steroid pros. This is why he characterizes his use as an amateurish endeavor between only he and his equally clueless cousin. Plus he claims to not be sure of any performance enhancing effects. This is calculated bullshit. It is also what will cause him the most trouble going forward.

Edited by Doctor G, 17 February 2009 - 06:01 PM.

[Drocca]

Admitted it with no tapdancing? Your joking right? Andy Pettitte would have us believe he used steroids ONE time and not to enhance performance but to return from injury faster and help his teamattes. He never said how he got the drug, who he got the drug from and how often he used the drug during the "one time" period of abuse. Thats not "getting it" and its whole hell of a lot of tapdancing.

Say what you want about AHole, but at least he was more forthcoming than Andy Frickin Pettitte.

Very well said. That was one of the more idiotic statements on this board in a long time.

[yep]

So, being 100% truthful doesn't include telling everyone where you got the drugs, who showed you where to get them, who injected them into you, and what you mean by the whole sport being "loosey goosey"? How is that being completely honest? Sometimes being honest means being a rat. You can't have it both ways, which is kind of what A Rod is trying to do, isn't it?

I don't think it's cutting things too fine to say that statements such as "that's none of your business" or "I'm not going to talk about that" can be 100% honest statements. In fact, those are perfectly credible and honorable answers to give. The problem (if there is one) is not that they are untruthful answers, but that they invite people to fill in the blanks with their own speculation, which is of course a perfectly reasonable response when someone tells you they're not going to talk.

The reason why people do not give such answers in situations like this is precisely because those kinds of answers neuter your ability to control the "narrative." People will rightly assume the worst. You can't say "I'm not going to name names" and then still paint yourself as having said all there is to say, and you certainly can't paint yourself as half a victim when you're covering for the perpetrators. And it makes it really hard to portray oneself as now "doing all you can" to clean up the game when you're covering for others.

But if the truth is that you're not going to name names, and that you're not going to talk about details, and that you're not really committed in that way to cleaning up the game, and that you weren't really a victim, and that you're not going to say all there is to say, then it's perfectly reasonable and honest to just say all that. It's also difficult and requires courage and actual honor, which might be unrealistic or naive to expect from MLB players, but that's not at all the same as saying they CAN'T do it.

I'm not contesting that it's unlikely, just saying that it's not even close to impossible.

(not sure what you mean by "loosey goosey")

[InsideTheParker]

Is anyone else watching MLBN? It looks as though Harold Reynolds is much more pro-A*Rod now that he's not sitting there with the lesser Ripken and Larkin.

Edited by InsideTheParker, 17 February 2009 - 06:15 PM.

[YTF]

Did he help himself? Here's what I have taken from the Gammon's interview and today's press conference. Young, dumb and full of shit. That said, what options does the poor fuck have? I can only imagine what may have been going through the heads of his "supportive" mates as they sat through this.

[jodyreeddudley78]

I'm not contesting that it's unlikely, just saying that it's not even close to impossible.

(not sure what you mean by "loosey goosey")

Well said.

"Loosey goosey" was how A Rod referred to the steroid era in the Gammons interview, if I recall correctly.

[EastCoasterOutWest]

Chronology of A*Rod talking about steroids

I've never been tempted to use cause I'm so awesome.

I'm sorry I used (cough got caught using cough) banned drugs, but I don't know what they were.

My cousin got this stuff called boli and injected me with it, but I don't know if it was steroids.


He's in a pit and tunneling downwards at a steady clip.

[crow216]

Wrong. Wrong.

He said his cousin bought "boli" OTC. You don't think reporters are going to look into "boli" and find out everything about it? He tested positive for testosterone also. Does "boli" contain testosterone? It better. Is there any evidence he didn't keep using through 2004 . Just his word, which has already proven to be useless (per your 2nd sentence). His description of usage, injection and substances included in "boli" had better conform to what investigative reporters are going to eventually find out about the stuff. This is going to be one of the biggest questions ongoing.

His obfuscation about statistics relative to the years he admitted cheating will also only lead to more questions. I haven't h eard anyone address the fact that the three admitted years are 3 of the 4 highest years of AB's. That might seem minor, but along with the power aspects of cheating with PED's is recovery from injury. How many AB's would he have missed if he hadn't cheated and been as subject to nagging injuries?

Where is it said that he tested positive for testosterone? He tested positive for a banned substance.........As for boli, it doesn't take a reporter. I already know what it is and this is where my problem with Arod lies. boli = methylprednisolone. It's very similar to what babies with stuffy noses take (orapred) and it's exactly what you get when you go to a dr and have a sinus problem....a package of 21 pills that you take over 6 days. Injection form is the same thing. So if Arod is gonna sit here and tell me (a huge yankee fan) that he took boli, I wanna smack him in the face.....but the more I think about it the more I really just don't care anymore.

A big part of what went unnoticed today is that he said he has taken blood tests and will take future blood and urine exams and that's pretty big for me as a yankee fan. So long as I know he's hitting homeruns as a yankee clean, I'm fine.

[Rough Carrigan]

Please, crow. Read Will Carroll's piece on SARM's over at Baseball Prospectus. It's the new thing. And it's not a steroid at all. It simply has the same effect on the body. Oh, and there's no test for it. ARod *knows* he can do blood tests right now that will show nothing even if he's cheating. Here are some excerpts:

I walked into the restaurant and sat at the bar, figuring it wouldn't be long until the person I was waiting for showed. Since leaving my hotel, I'd been feeling a sense of dread, excitement, and déjà vu. Five years ago, I met with a man I called "Dr. X", one of the leading figures in the steroid underground. Tonight, I'd be doing the same. Last time, I had to jump through hoops, seeing meetings canceled and conditions changed, and when we finally did meet face to face, he was wearing a disguise. There were no such concerns this time, as if men like Dr. X had undergone the same transformation as their drugs. Things were more advanced, clearer (no pun intended), and done much more out in the open.

Since I last sat down with one of these men, baseball had come a long way, having instituted a testing program that had driven out most of the steroid users, and had pushed that percentage of hardcore users to more advanced products. In driving out deca-durabolin and boldenone, baseball had ushered in an era where the low end picked up things at the local GNC, hoping that the unregulated, hype-driven industry wouldn't spike their latest creation to get results, while the upper end—those with the money, knowledge, and connections—would deal with the underground. Drug usage on the whole was, I believe, down, but the idea that baseball was drug-free was simply fiction. Some had moved on to whatever this month's "clear" was, staying one step ahead of the testing regime, or using undetectable substances, like HGH, insulin, and now, something new.

.
.
.


I nodded. "I'd agree. All the statistical studies showed there wasn't a big effect, but that's neither here nor there. So what are the smarter guys doing now? What's the next THG?"

"Probably SARMs, which aren't even on the legitimate market yet, but you can find on the black market. They're a nightmare for testing officials."

I'd heard a bit about SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators). The word on the street was that they had a powerful anabolic effect, but that it came from a completely different mechanism. "What do they do? I mean, how do they work and how effective are they?"

"Chemically, they bind to the androgen receptor, just like testosterone, and signal the body to build more muscle and strength. It's like testosterone without the testosterone. Actually, the testosterone analogy is apt, because they're every bit as effective as [testosterone]."

That was a big claim to be making. "Sure but that's the goal of every steroid or supplement though, isn't it? How close to testosterone is it? If testosterone is 100, what's this SARM? Even the various testosterone injectable forms aren't 100."

X2 jotted a few things down on a napkin. Just numbers. "Testosterone has an anabolic rating of 100, and the anabolic rating for SARMs is reported in medical studies to be between 97-103. Testosterone is 100 because it's the gold standard, and all steroids are measured against it on that scale."

.
.
.

I jumped in. "Let me pause you there. The worry about steroids has always been that people, especially teenagers, thought everyone was doing it and that they had to to keep up. Bonds supposedly started because he thought McGwire and Sosa already were. but we both know the numbers were never that high. Canseco said 80 percent, but I don't even believe 50 percent is accurate."

He shook his head. "I think the number in baseball is high. Not Canseco, but high."

.
.
.

Good, now Congress can blame a series of tubes, cables, and wires for the problem. "Back to the SARMs. Your athletes are already using this?" I knew this was the case, but I needed to hear how he was setting up programs. "And if you're telling your athletes to use it, that means of course that athletes are already using this, something that most people haven't heard of."

He paused and took a sip of his water. "Yes, it has been in the literature for several years, well before this last Olympic games, though it became readily available in the United States last winter. December, I believe." Just in time for Christmas giving... or baseball's offseason. "At that point, we starting using it for my athletes that need to beat tests. I have an athlete who is coming off a two-year suspension, and they're playing a big role in his drug use. He was suspended for steroids, but that was before me."

I smiled. "Nice to see recidivism is at least educated. What have been the results?" Instead of answering, he took out his phone, showing me a picture on his Blackberry of a giant of a man. Clearly a bodybuilder, this guy was massive. "OK, no question about that. Now, if you're saying that in some cases its better than testosterone, why wouldn't you use it more broadly, even in an untested situation?"

"Practical reasons, actually. It isn't widely available, and since there are limited places to get it, I typically don't use it in place of testosterone. A low dose of testosterone is still undetectable. For example, 100 milligrams of testosterone propionate, administered every other day, will keep my test/epi ratio under 4:1, which is the accepted range, and my total testosterone gets to 958. 1000 is the accepted normal range."

.
.
.

"What about side effects?" I asked. "Would George Costanza be worried about shrinkage?"

He laughed. "It doesn't convert to estrogen or dihydrotestosterone, and it doesn't affect natural hormones. I can tell you first-hand that there's no shrinkage," he said, eyeing the server.

The supply question really interested me. THG was effective because few places knew of it, let alone had the ability to synthesize it. With a bit more complicated chemistry at its heart, SARMs might be held back for a while by supply. X2 agreed, noting "We go through SARM droughts. There's none for sale right now in the States, but a shipment will arrive in 11 days. Don't get any ideas, because it's reserved!"

So it was perhaps self-limited. "We have a limited supply and presumably high cost. That should keep it limited to a very specific population."

He paused before agreeing. "It's more expensive than testosterone, but not prohibitively expensive for professional athletes. It's far cheaper than growth hormones. It's about as expensive as Lr3-IGF1, another undetectable performance enhancer." Lr3, the latest form of IGF-1 (insulin growth factor) had been around for a while, with most athletes abandoning it for the cheaper and more available insulin. WADA has been hinting about an IGF-1 test, though they've been talking about an HGH test for far longer, and it's still not widely available or even broadly accepted.

"Tell me, what kind of cost are we talking about? Most people have no idea what any of this costs."

He reached out and held the bluish bottle up. He unscrewed the top, drew some into the dropper and put some on his fingertip. The drop sat there, looking all the world like flaxseed oil. That wasn't going to help things. "This bottle? It will run you about seventy-five, maybe a hundred bucks."

"That's nothing," I said, stunned. "I could afford that, if I was ready to jump off that bridge."

"It's not expensive," he said, wiping his finger off and putting the bottle back in his pocket. If he was carrying it around like this, it wasn't just to show it to me. It had to be clear of the refrigeration issue that made HGH and IGF so tough to carry. "It's just more than testosterone. That's a concern for bodybuilders, people who aren't making the baseball or NFL money and need to megadose. It's expensive to be undetectable. Thousands for hormones, hundred for SARMs, more hundreds for IGF-1, and I like to keep costs low. Barry Bonds was a notorious cheapskate. Athletes, even the very rich ones, balk at three grand a month on a drug bill."

"Cost and availability is why we're seeing minor leaguers and Latins go 'old-school' and get busted for Winstrol. I mean, I saw a bottle of Winstrol at the pharmacia when I was in the Dominican Republic last month, and that was at a resort!" He nodded, so I continued. "The one I've seen most inside of baseball has been insulin, and that wasn't even noted on the drug report that MLB made public recently. We have economic incentive, plus opportunity, to do it without being detected. Thousands of dollars in drug bills—and your consulting fee, of course—can lead to potential millions."

"Yes," he said, pointing at me. "We're really talking about incremental gains here. Added up over several seasons, that can create superstars. You don't go from Little Mac to Big Mac in a year, but look at the progress he made yearly, and those incremental gains were worthwhile, and hardly the gains you get from andro!"
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.
.
"No doubt." Looking into his eyes, I could see that he had none. It wouldn't surprise me if he knew names. "Everyone knows a guy who knows a guy. They're new and sexy and becoming a buzz word with the strength guys. McNamee or Alejo would know SARMs if they were still doing this." (I guess he didn't realize Bobby Alejo was back in the game, recently hired by Oakland.)

"But if it's a guy that knows a guy, like it was with steroids, isn't this just setting things up for another BALCO?" I asked.

"Not a BALCO, but smaller BALCOs. A couple rogue chemists and performance specialists working together with a select few athletes. We'll see cells like this popping up. We have already. The East German doping program was too big, and that's why it got busted. BALCO was too big and too loud, but little clusters of coaches and athletes teaming up with chemists... that's the future."

"Sure," I said. "We saw it before, but everyone treated BALCO like it was a singularity. Conte didn't get that he should keep his head down. Is this SARM thing the intermediate step between the steroid era and the genetic doping era? I thought Beijing was going to be where we had the freak step out and look like that cow."

He smiled. "I don't know if we necessarily need to go that far. You've seen those gene-doped rats and the Belgian bulls. They're not very athletic. It's crude at this stage, so we need another step. Something before that level, but above what we have now. That's SARMs."

"But what if your guy doesn't know the right guy or right cell with the right stuff?" I asked. "I mean, GNC is already selling something called 'SARM Extreme.' Beyond that, there's a shelf life for undetectable, since you can't market something and keep it a secret. How long is it before Don Catlin has a test for SARMs the way he did for THG?"

"Yeah, SARMX by MHP. That's nothing but a waste of money. The testing? Catlin? I like that guy a lot, actually. He realizes that he isn't there to catch every cheater, but rather a few here and there, and put up a good show that sports are clean. Clean-ish. How long? They're already trying to figure one out, and some studies have identified metabolites. Just remember, the side of the street I work on, we're usually a step ahead. If they come up with a test they're comfortable using, then a molecule here or there and we'll be OK again. I'm not convinced they're particularly close either. They've said they're close on an HGH test since Bush was President. The first one, I mean. The real problem is that now, anyone who is good is suspected of drug use. If you put together a 75 home run season, that would mean you'd have to come correct and make sure 100 percent of your drugs are undetectable. Usain Bolt was suspected of doping as soon as he set a world record, and that's the new trend."

The meal was over, and neither of us were dawdlers. I had covered everything I'd hoped to and more in the hour I had. "So let me sum this up: You've got a drug that's as effective as anything you've ever had in your arsenal. It's undetectable, has no side effects, and only a few people have access to it."

He nodded and smiled. "Yes, and you know that insulin and IGF are in that arsenal too. IGF has been available on the black market for over a decade. Insulin is available at Walgreens."

"In other words, it's going to be a good year for the black hats?"

He laughed again. "The black hats always have a good year!"

With that, X2 got up to leave. As the waitress came with the check, she watched him leave, as I could tell many people were doing. She turned to me and asked "Is he a football player?" I just sighed. "Something like that."

But the big reason ARod didn't help himself is that he has, again, put forth a sketchy and likely phony explanation. Selena Roberts' book is coming out in April. Some whispers are that it will allege that ARod took steroids in high school. If she's got that locked down. If she's got people, coaches, teammates or other kids who will say that ARod was using steroids then, he is right and truly fucked.

Edited by Rough Carrigan, 17 February 2009 - 06:50 PM.

[Wingack]

If you add both the Gammons interview and the press conference together, yes I think he helped himself, in that, I have more "respect" (for lack of a better term) for him than any other known user, because he has been MUCH more forthcoming than anyone else.

[YTF]

Where is it said that he tested positive for testosterone? He tested positive for a banned substance.........As for boli, it doesn't take a reporter. I already know what it is and this is where my problem with Arod lies. boli = methylprednisolone. It's very similar to what babies with stuffy noses take (orapred) and it's exactly what you get when you go to a dr and have a sinus problem....a package of 21 pills that you take over 6 days. Injection form is the same thing. So if Arod is gonna sit here and tell me (a huge yankee fan) that he took boli, I wanna smack him in the face.....but the more I think about it the more I really just don't care anymore.

A big part of what went unnoticed today is that he said he has taken blood tests and will take future blood and urine exams and that's pretty big for me as a yankee fan. So long as I know he's hitting homeruns as a yankee clean, I'm fine.

Just curious, any thoughts that "boli" could be slang for anaBOLIcs? On a lighter note maybe he was young and stupid enough to think that his "cousin" shoving a stromBOLI in his ass.

[paulftodd]

He is fine now so long as nobody nails him with usage after 2003. If for example he used in 2007, and this came out, all hell would break out, not only for A-Rod but MLB in general since it would show a big hole in the testing.

In the absence of anything new, he may hear a few more boos, get more bad press, but when you make 25-30 million a year for playing ball, thats a small price to pay.

[Rough Carrigan]

He is fine now so long as nobody nails him with usage after 2003. If for example he used in 2007, and this came out, all hell would break out, not only for A-Rod but MLB in general since it would show a big hole in the testing.

In the absence of anything new, he may hear a few more boos, get more bad press, but when you make 25-30 million a year for playing ball, thats a small price to pay.

What if he gets nailed for usage *before* the 2001-2003 period where he claims to have almost whimsically taken something?

Edited by Rough Carrigan, 17 February 2009 - 06:54 PM.

[jtn46]

If you add both the Gammons interview and the press conference together, yes I think he helped himself, in that, I have more "respect" (for lack of a better term) for him than any other known user, because he has been MUCH more forthcoming than anyone else.

Yeah, that's why I voted yes. Even if he's still only telling us 20% of the story, most guys haven't told any of it. He had to get caught to be that forthcoming, sure, but Clemens got caught, and to this day denies he ever did anything wrong. McGwire got caught and I think he's renting the Unabomber's old house.

We have to remember that a lot of this deception is more about players covering their ass legally than it is about trying to save face with the public. When federal authorities are so eager to get involved in these cases, it pays to be vague. Really, A-Rod may have said too much in that sense....if investigators actually figure out who this cousin is, and they can prove that what A-Rod's saying is true, the 2 of them seem vulnerable to drug trafficking crimes.

[Grubbery]

I don't know. If nothing else comes out, it dies down and becomes a source of grumbling for people that don't like him to begin with. If ANYTHING comes out from this SI piece or in the future that makes the lie (or half-truth) he's saying now clear cut, dude is dead as disco.

Edited by Grubbery, 17 February 2009 - 07:05 PM.

[crow216]

Please, crow. Read Will Carroll's piece on SARM's over at Baseball Prospectus. It's the new thing. And it's not a steroid at all. It simply has the same effect on the body. Oh, and there's no test for it. ARod *knows* he can do blood tests right now that will show nothing even if he's cheating. Here are some excerpts:
But the big reason ARod didn't help himself is that he has, again, put forth a sketchy and likely phony explanation. Selena Roberts' book is coming out in April. Some whispers are that it will allege that ARod took steroids in high school. If she's got that locked down. If she's got people, coaches, teammates or other kids who will say that ARod was using steroids then, he is right and truly fucked.

Great read....But really, like I said in the past.....retroactive testing is a pretty big deal.

[scrizzy]

Yeah, that's why I voted yes. Even if he's still only telling us 20% of the story, most guys haven't told any of it. He had to get caught to be that forthcoming, sure, but Clemens got caught, and to this day denies he ever did anything wrong. McGwire got caught and I think he's renting the Unabomber's old house.

We have to remember that a lot of this deception is more about players covering their ass legally than it is about trying to save face with the public. When federal authorities are so eager to get involved in these cases, it pays to be vague. Really, A-Rod may have said too much in that sense....if investigators actually figure out who this cousin is, and they can prove that what A-Rod's saying is true, the 2 of them seem vulnerable to drug trafficking crimes.

The difference between them and Arod is that he is still active and hoping to go down as the GOAT. Clemens and McGwire don't have to come to the park every day and face the crowds and the media. Bonds had to but he obviously couldn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks about him.

[HomeBrew1901]

A-Rod's anonymous "cousin" = dog at his homework, and the public will ridicule him accordingly, which bothers A-Rod more than it does most athletes.

No, he didn't help himself today.

WHERE'S YOUR COUSIN? CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP

WHERE'S YOUR COUSIN? CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP

[HomeBrew1901]

A-Rod's anonymous "cousin" = dog at his homework, and the public will ridicule him accordingly, which bothers A-Rod more than it does most athletes.

No, he didn't help himself today.

WHERE'S YOUR COUSIN? CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP

WHERE'S YOUR COUSIN? CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP

[EastCoasterOutWest]

WHERE'S YOUR COUSIN? CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP

WHERE'S YOUR COUSIN? CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP

Followed quickly by:

YOUNG AND STUPID CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP

[glennhoffmania]

I didn't realize that 7% of this board was made up of Yankee fans and jtn.

No offense, jtn.

[bean8282]

Admitted it with no tapdancing? Your joking right? Andy Pettitte would have us believe he used steroids ONE time and not to enhance performance but to return from injury faster and help his teamattes. He never said how he got the drug, who he got the drug from and how often he used the drug during the "one time" period of abuse. Thats not "getting it" and its whole hell of a lot of tapdancing.

Say what you want about AHole, but at least he was more forthcoming than Andy Frickin Pettitte.

This is factually inaccurate. Pettitte has received much more credit for his admission than I think he deserves because he initially claimed that he did HGH two days in 2002 to recuperate from an elbow injury, only to later admit that he also took HGH one day in 2004. However, during his press conference during spring training he did explain "how he got the drug, who he got the drug from, and how often he used the drug." As he explained, in 2004 his father was using HGH for a heart condition and that his father gave him two syringes of HGH, which he injected himself with in the morning and later the same night. In 2002, he got HGH from Brian McNamee. Also, it is completely wrong to say "Andy Pettitte would have us believe he used steroids." In reality, he stated plainly that he never took steroids. Basically the entirety of your post is not true, except for the initial "Admitted it with no tapdancing? Your joking right?" since he certainly was not fully forthcoming in his initial statement. That being said, Pettitte's initial admission was filled with the disgusting "If I let people down" and "If what I did was an error in judgment," type of non-apologies that make one lose even more respect for the guy. That and the fact that I don't believe a word of what he finally copped to in his press conference (just as I don't believe much of A*Rod's story) because he had lied previously regarding the same circumstances, history of use, and his story defied credulity.

Link
Link

Edited by bean8282, 17 February 2009 - 11:12 PM.

[paulftodd]

What if he gets nailed for usage *before* the 2001-2003 period where he claims to have almost whimsically taken something?

An anonymous source or a Canseco like allegation in a book is unlikely to be much more damaging, and he is already tainted in most peoples minds by his admission of use in 2001-2003 and the widespread belief he likely used prior to this, whimsically or otherwise. And only a positive test or someone testifying in a criminal investigation under oath would nail him, and this seems unlikely given there was no testing. Given Texas was on the hook for 140 million for 3 years service, they might be interested in his being nailed if he made any claims never to have used PED's before signing the contract. So I believe only being nailed on post 2003 use would cause him much more damage.

I don't know how much steroids affected his performance. Using them means you are motiviated to improve your performance, and so athletes who use spend more time in the gym since they know they will get little benefit from using, which may affect their health adversely down the road, without the workouts. A-Rod by all accounts was a workaholic and spent a lot of time working out. There might even be a placebo effect where using it boosts a players confidence, and they play better. But if he only used in 2001-2003, given his best years were 2007 and 2000, this would seem to indicate steroids don't help much. I believe they do help, just not sure how much, and they can probably hurt as much as they help by shortening careers if a player is prone to tendon injuries as a result of using, not to mention mysterious tumours and intestinal parasite problems when they stop using. If they do, this suggest A-Rod used before 2001 and after 2003.

Rick Helling blew the whistle to the MLBPA in 1997 as a player rep for Texas and every year after this, but was ignored by union leaders. MLB's reponse was to deliver a presentation in 1998 to team executives and physicians on the benefits of testosterone. The guys responsible for the problem are still in their respective positions (Orza, Fehr and Selig). I cut the players slack, as Helling said, many players felt pressured to use just to keep up with players who were using. The system encouraged them to use. It was good for business. The problem will remain until those who are responsible are gone.

Edited by paulftodd, 18 February 2009 - 12:48 AM.

[InsideTheParker]

I like the take by Thomas Boswell in the Washington Post. He sees yesterday's press conference as a "bedtime story" designed to prevent any specifics, to close legal loopholes that could be used by the feds to craft a subpoena.

Boswell

[Keshti]

The thing that totally didn't help A-roid was the expression on Jeter's face in the photo that was posted in this morning's NY Times. Pettitte, Mo, Posada, and Jeter were all front and center in a show of "support," but CI's eyes were far from calm.

[TheYaz67]

Boy, if the Post has anything to say on this - the verdict would be a big "NO":

“TAMPA - It wasn't as bad as R. Budd Dwyer's last press conference 22 years ago, when the Pennsylvania treasurer shot himself to death on national television. But yesterday's performance by Alex Rodriguez was full of holes.”

Not good to have old Budd's name associated with your press conference.....

[foulkehampshire]

The thing that totally didn't help A-roid was the expression on Jeter's face in the photo that was posted in this morning's NY Times. Pettitte, Mo, Posada, and Jeter were all front and center in a show of "support," but CI's eyes were far from calm.

Probably thinking about his hopes and dreams

[InsideTheParker]

I am really struck by how, fairly or unfairly, this issue seeps into popular culture.
Two examples from the last 24 hours: last night Hugh Jackman, hosting the Oscars, joked that Meryl Streep is putting up such big numbers (of Oscar nominations) that it makes you think "steroids," and this morning, replying to a comment by a filmmaker that he should "be like Arod and tell the truth," Matt Lauer replied, "If I were going to be like Arod, I would only tell you half-truths."

[OilCanShotTupac]

I am really struck by how, fairly or unfairly, this issue seeps into popular culture.
Two examples from the last 24 hours: last night Hugh Jackman, hosting the Oscars, joked that Meryl Streep is putting up such big numbers (of Oscar nominations) that it makes you think "steroids," and this morning, replying to a comment by a filmmaker that he should "be like Arod and tell the truth," Matt Lauer replied, "If I were going to be like Arod, I would only tell you half-truths."

This was the question that prompted me to start the poll.

IMO, if this is Matt Lauer's off-the-cuff take on morning TV, then ARod did not help himself.